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COMPOUND 20 SOLO Log - Clemenza

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  1. Elite Member
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    Clem

    Some responses from MY lessons in life only. These may not pertain to you.

    1) The bloat you are experiencing "could" simply be due to a simple digestive issue (lack of necessary enzymes/proteases to deal with such high volume protein intake). That's an easy fix w/the addition of digestive enzymes (and maybe some betain HCL-debateable) and perhaps some probiotics (more comprehensive/ancillary suppport)

    That said, it could also be what I already mentioned as well (acidity/inflammation). Google acid/alkaline diets/lifestyles and you will find a plehtora of research to support my position on the negative cascade of effects from a chronically acidic (high MEAT) diet. Disclaimer: If you also eat a variety of very alkaline foods with each meal like most greens are, you might be able to better balance the acidic environment.

    With respect to you going al the way down to 200 overnight - perhaps you should start at 250-275 and see how your body responds? Some do "ok" with higher levels (however, I am not convinced they arent causing other issues internally).

    2) With respect to the macro's. That's more of a personal trial and error thingy that Im not sure anyone can advise for your unique situation and needs. Lowering carbs doesnt work for everyone and Im a low carb disciple who has fostered this lifestyle for 10_ years so Im prejudice based on my experiences. Also, macro needs (protein), is one thing I think the individual should assesss as well. Again, I used to eat liek you (thanks to all the wonderful "GURU" advice) and wrecked myself int he process. Live and learn.

    Im in my 40's so an old fart now and only do about 2500 k/cal a day on average. Again, 200 grams of protein MAX (lots of BCAA's).

    I train 6 days a week in the AM and 6 cardio sessions in the PM (I have a very sedentary desk job so the "cardio" doesnt really count per se as it would for the normal joe).

    3) I concur with your sentiment/position regarding going too low in carbs. Two options IMO. Up the BCAA's (pre/peri/post training) as these are effective anticatabolic/muscle-sparing supps. Increase your healthy fats. Some days, I get 250 grams of fats in my diet and stay lean. It's a brain game though because we have been so brainwashed into believing fats make you fat. These days, I get a copious dose of coconut, almonds and macedemia nut oil in my diet. I actually feel "energized" (probably more so from the coconut/MCT's)

    I hope some others chime in and offer other/alternative insight as I dont want to see you replicate my regimen as it may/may not not be ideal for you.

    Good luck manggg


    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    Whacked, I really appreciate the advice.

    That's unreal! Never really knew about the acidity and inflammatory issue with high protein.

    It's funny you say that though, because toward the end of two straight low carb/high protein days, I notice I become flatter (from the low carb), but also BLOATED! I'm guessing this is from the excess protein.

    I am aware of protein converting to sugars and gluconeogenesis. I've just been afraid to go too low on calories. On low carb days I end up with around 100g carbs, and 350-400g protein. That's 1850-2000 kcal, which leaves me needing around 70g fat to bring it up to 2630 kcal. Didn't really want to get lower than that.

    But do you recommend I up my carbs or my fat on those low days, if I'm going to drop protein down to around 200g?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Clem

    Some responses from MY lessons in life only. These may not pertain to you.

    1) The bloat you are experiencing "could" simply be due to a simple digestive issue (lack of necessary enzymes/proteases to deal with such high volume protein intake). That's an easy fix w/the addition of digestive enzymes (and maybe some betain HCL-debateable) and perhaps some probiotics (more comprehensive/ancillary suppport)

    That said, it could also be what I already mentioned as well (acidity/inflammation). Google acid/alkaline diets/lifestyles and you will find a plehtora of research to support my position on the negative cascade of effects from a chronically acidic (high MEAT) diet. Disclaimer: If you also eat a variety of very alkaline foods with each meal like most greens are, you might be able to better balance the acidic environment.

    With respect to you going al the way down to 200 overnight - perhaps you should start at 250-275 and see how your body responds? Some do "ok" with higher levels (however, I am not convinced they arent causing other issues internally).

    2) With respect to the macro's. That's more of a personal trial and error thingy that Im not sure anyone can advise for your unique situation and needs. Lowering carbs doesnt work for everyone and Im a low carb disciple who has fostered this lifestyle for 10_ years so Im prejudice based on my experiences. Also, macro needs (protein), is one thing I think the individual should assesss as well. Again, I used to eat liek you (thanks to all the wonderful "GURU" advice) and wrecked myself int he process. Live and learn.

    Im in my 40's so an old fart now and only do about 2500 k/cal a day on average. Again, 200 grams of protein MAX (lots of BCAA's).

    I train 6 days a week in the AM and 6 cardio sessions in the PM (I have a very sedentary desk job so the "cardio" doesnt really count per se as it would for the normal joe).

    3) I concur with your sentiment/position regarding going too low in carbs. Two options IMO. Up the BCAA's (pre/peri/post training) as these are effective anticatabolic/muscle-sparing supps. Increase your healthy fats. Some days, I get 250 grams of fats in my diet and stay lean. It's a brain game though because we have been so brainwashed into believing fats make you fat. These days, I get a copious dose of coconut, almonds and macedemia nut oil in my diet. I actually feel "energized" (probably more so from the coconut/MCT's)

    I hope some others chime in and offer other/alternative insight as I dont want to see you replicate my regimen as it may/may not not be ideal for you.

    Good luck manggg
    Very interesting. Two years ago I did the Scivation Lean Mass diet, not sure if you're familiar with it. It was the most effective diet I've ever done. Effective in the sense that I dropped fat, retained muscle, my skin looked fantastic, and I had consistant energy.

    The diet focused on a moderate protein (about 1g per pound) and much higher fat. Proteins coming mainly from whole food sources, fats coming from avacado, almonds, almond butter. High fiber. Two pieces of fruit and green beans/spinach/brocolli were the only carbs. As well as a re-feed every 4th night I believe, consisting of oats, honey, raisins and sweet potato. Plus high BCAA's. And the funny thing is I was never really "flat" because the refeed would hold me over for 3 days. And my muscles would suck the carbs right up.

    Basically, I looked great and felt great. But it's SOOOOOO hard to follow. But I was consistant with it for a few months and it was amazing.
    The idea behind the spinach and greens was to keep the an alkaline PH I believe.

    I'm going to try and few different things, like slowly bringing my protein down. I currently use 10g BCAA during my workout. I will up it and include extras pre and post along with my whey.

    Just picked up a huge bag of green beans from Costco.

    Amazing you can maintain at a solid 210 lbs on 2500 kcals.
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    I didn't choose to advise on your diet as you seem set in your ways but I personally don't see a point in a TCD. Eat 1.4-1.8 g/kg protein daily, 1 g/kg ish fat, and the rest for your maintenance/deficit in carbs daily. Azotemia, I believe, is the term for acidic blood due to excessive protein intake. Realistically, anything over 1.2g/lbs is highly unnecessary according to repeated studies (notice kg vs lbs throughout this post) in terms of protein intake. Protein will AT BEST account for 10-12% of total energy expenditure for a day and that's during extreme cases (which yours may be).

    Do a refeed once you're two weeks deep into a cut; however, you aren't necessarily cutting hard so I wouldn't even recommend one -- maybe once every second/third week at best and see how your body responds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neddo
    I didn't choose to advise on your diet as you seem set in your ways but I personally don't see a point in a TCD. Eat 1.4-1.8 g/kg protein daily, 1 g/kg ish fat, and the rest for your maintenance/deficit in carbs daily. Azotemia, I believe, is the term for acidic blood due to excessive protein intake. Realistically, anything over 1.2g/lbs is highly unnecessary according to repeated studies (notice kg vs lbs throughout this post) in terms of protein intake. Protein will AT BEST account for 10-12% of total energy expenditure for a day and that's during extreme cases (which yours may be).

    Do a refeed once you're two weeks deep into a cut; however, you aren't necessarily cutting hard so I wouldn't even recommend one -- maybe once every second/third week at best and see how your body responds.
    +/- Correct on the azotemia, it is kidney insufficiency/failure in the face of high nitrogen rich compounds in the blood (not to be confused with rhabdomyolysis). You would have decreased and funky colored urine with it. I can see where ridiculous protein intake would cause this, but you would have to have a lot o digestive enzymes to break down all that meat so the byproducts would then wind up in the bloodstream. Just my.02. Otherwise this post is spot on Neddo, the 1.2gm/lbs is what I have read too
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    Neddo and Sae: good stuff, thanks for sharing!

    Clem: That diet sounds almost identical to what I run!!

    You said you felt great on it. I think you answered your own questions
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    Quote Originally Posted by sae2110

    +/- Correct on the azotemia, it is kidney insufficiency/failure in the face of high nitrogen rich compounds in the blood (not to be confused with rhabdomyolysis). You would have decreased and funky colored urine with it. I can see where ridiculous protein intake would cause this, but you would have to have a lot o digestive enzymes to break down all that meat so the byproducts would then wind up in the bloodstream. Just my.02. Otherwise this post is spot on Neddo, the 1.2gm/lbs is what I have read too
    I've heard the extreme circumstances encasing azotemia and the extreme rarity of it but figured it'd still be worth a mention.
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    Great insight guys. I've already started making some changes today. I'm going to be including more greens, lowering overall protein intake, and upping the BCAA's.
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    Day 5:

    Did a high rep, low weight, short rest interval upper body lift today. I mentioned earlier I'm gonna shake my routine up this coming week. So just ending this week with a little blood flow. Will do a light lower body tomorrow.

    Also did 30 minute walk on a 9 incline at 3.3 mph.

    After all the good input I got from you guys, I decided to go lower on the protein and change a few things with the diet.

    Here's exactly what I ate today:

    Meal 1 (Pre workout): 8 oz. OJ / 25g Dymatize Elite (30g C / 25g P)
    (2 Caps C20)

    Intra Workout: 20g Carbs Gatorade powder w/BCAA (20g C)

    Meal 2 (Post workout): 50g carb from Malto/Gatorade powder / 50g Dymatize Elite (50g C / 50g P)

    Meal 3 (1 Hour Follow PWO meal): 1 Cup Oats w/Cinnamon / 5 Eggs (55g C / 35g P / 25g F)

    Meal 4: 1/2 cup Brown Rice / 7 oz. Grilled Chicken (60g C / 40g P)
    (2 Caps C20)

    Meal 5: 1 cup Green Beans / 6 oz. Turkey Burger (35g P / 8g F)

    Meal 6: 1 cup Green Beans / 1/2 cup Brown Rice / 7 oz. Grilled Chicken / 1/4 cup Almonds (60g C / 40g P / 16g F)

    Totals: (275g C / 230g P / 49g F) = 2461 Cals.

    Fat was low today. Usually have 1/4 cup almonds with at least 2-3 meals daily.

    How do you guys feel about including fats with protein/carb meals? I've heard so much back and forth about this over the years. I've never had a problem combining carbs with fat. Interested in your opinions though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neddo View Post
    To each their own I have studies performed to argue otherwise; but you listen to your body and mold your diet and intake around it, and I can respect that.



    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5728391&page= 1

    I'd opt for Genomyx Slin sane or SLINTropin, personally. Possibly even MAN's new GDA.

    I use SS before high carb meals UNLESS post-workout (as I do IF, so most of the time my biggest intake is post-lift and SS is largely a waste in this state) and every night before bed.
    Not sure about this but SLINTropins write up for berberine looks stikingly similar to mine without citations and a few big words...

    ill be following your log
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    Tear it up mangg

    PS: With the modifications to your diet, you WILL lose bodyfat so be sure to appropriately credit THIS as part of any recomp/fat reduction results when you give your summary on C-20

    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    Great insight guys. I've already started making some changes today. I'm going to be including more greens, lowering overall protein intake, and upping the BCAA's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Tear it up mangg

    PS: With the modifications to your diet, you WILL lose bodyfat so be sure to appropriately credit THIS as part of any recomp/fat reduction results when you give your summary on C-20
    Well that's the thing. I refuse to let this log turn out to be a "Well he changed his diet, he added this and added that, so we can't conclude his results came from Compound 20" type log.

    I don't want many variables to change, other than the inclusion of Compound 20. So, I'm going to go back to what I was doing with Alpha T2... carb cycling at just around maintenance, but with higher carbs and less protein.

    I was going over old articles and threads and read a few things from Chuck Rudolph recommending 1.6-3.2g protein /kg. So I'll be taking your advice and keeping protein lower as I was last month. Only thing is, I usually drop carbs, but will keep them a little higher for the sake of not dropping the cals too much.

    I want this thread to show whether or not Compound 20 works, without question or doubt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post

    How do you guys feel about including fats with protein/carb meals? I've heard so much back and forth about this over the years. I've never had a problem combining carbs with fat. Interested in your opinions though.
    Ive low carb dieted for over a decade, I dont see any real issue with consuming fats with protein and carb meals. Its not a big deal imo.
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    Day 6:

    Woke up this morning suprisingly leaner and pumped. Carbs were at 275g yesterday and I believe slightly over 120g the day before. Usually I'd be rather flat and a little bloated today. The bloat may not have been there because I kept protein at 230g rather than up around or over 300g.

    But the pump I had all day today was a little unusual. Not ready to contribute it to Compound 20 Yet.

    I did a light / high rep lower body today. Very good pumps in my legs.

    My diet was almost exactly the same as yesterday, but I upped the fats to bring calories up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Ive low carb dieted for over a decade, I dont see any real issue with consuming fats with protein and carb meals. Its not a big deal imo.
    I've never had a problem with it either. I know Berardi over the years has changed his stance on it and now says it's fine. I've even read evidence of the fat slowing down the release of the carbs and lowering the glycemic load.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    Not sure about this but SLINTropins write up for berberine looks stikingly similar to mine without citations and a few big words...

    ill be following your log
    Were you carried at more e-tailers, I would've already purchased your GDA. Love the profile, and the anecdotal reports.

    @fats - Realistically, don't worry about timing of nutrient intake on any level. I fast for 16-20 hours a day, and go ham on food at night. Fat's not gonna hurt, and you don't want it really low either. I haven't seen a need for anything over 1.8g/kg protein, and that was sufficient for football players training 2x daily as well as resistance training -- fwiw. Understandably, slightly increasing it (2.8g/kg or so) during a slight cut/beneath maintenance intake would be the safe thing to do.

    Don't worry about weight shed and attribution to the drug at hand yet; but as mentioned, a macro-change should be at least mentioned in your final review. A calorie is a calorie, so you shouldn't see a terrible, acute change in weight loss either IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    Day 6:

    Woke up this morning suprisingly leaner and pumped. Carbs were at 275g yesterday and I believe slightly over 120g the day before. Usually I'd be rather flat and a little bloated today. The bloat may not have been there because I kept protein at 230g rather than up around or over 300g.

    But the pump I had all day today was a little unusual. Not ready to contribute it to Compound 20 Yet.

    I did a light / high rep lower body today. Very good pumps in my legs.

    My diet was almost exactly the same as yesterday, but I upped the fats to bring calories up.
    I'm on day 2/ starting 3.

    How's it going for you man?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rome32 View Post
    I'm on day 2/ starting 3.

    How's it going for you man?
    I'm a week into C20 so far.

    Just subscribed to your log. Good luck, I'll be following. I hope we both see some results with this stuff!
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    Day 8:

    First of all, I couldn't get on last night to update Day 7. The site was down for maintenance. Monday was a complete off day for me anyway. Ran low carb at 100g. Protein was at 250g.

    Today, I woke up and after two days low carb and off from training, I was looking smaller but my muscles abnormally tight and pumped. Usually after two days off and two days low carb I'm flatter and even slightly bloated. This morning there was no bloat, and like I said my muscles looked smaller (as they would normally from two days off and two low carb days), but with a pump. Very interesting.

    Before breakfast I weighed in at 192.3 lbs. (-2.7 from my start of C20 a week ago.)
    This is nothing out of the ordinary. My calories have been lower, been doing cardio, and lower carbs than usual last week (and lower protein!) my glycogen is depleted so I'm holding less water. After backloading my carbs tonight so I'm betting my weight will be back up tomorrow morning.

    I'll be weighing myself every Tuesday. I'm not a huge (scale/weight) guy. I like to use the mirror as my main determining factor for gains. But will use the scale as well for this log.

    Also, I'll be doing a 2 on 1 off split and doing each muscle every 6 days rather than 7.

    Day 1: Abs/Back/Legs
    Day 2: Shoulders
    Day 3: Off
    Day 4: Abs/Arms
    Day 5: Chest
    Day 6: Off
    Repeat Day 1, etc.

    Back/Legs
    Pull-ups 4x15
    Seated Chins (Legs parallel to floor) 10x8x8x6
    Cable TBar Rows 15x12x10 + Drop Set-10
    Deadlift 185 3x15
    Hack Squat 185 4x15
    Leg Curl 4x15
    Seated Calf Raise 90 3x12

    Cardio:
    25 min walk @ 3mph @ 9 incline. HR @ 140.

    Workout was VERY good today. Usually I'm flat in the gym after two days off and low carbs, but I had a very nice pump. I've noticed this since starting Synthetic Supplements Agmatine at 1g Pre Workout.
    Endurance was suprisingly higher as well today. Especially cardio, I could have kept going but pressed for time.

    Did deadlifts and squats today for the first time in 3 weeks. Wanted to go light, even though my neck and back are feeling pretty good. Just don't want to take any chances. Will go up in weight next back/leg day if I'm still feeling good. I'll also be mixing up my reps and incorporating some power and strength sets, so long as I don't feel any pain coming on.


    Diet

    1) 1 1/2 scoops Dymatize Elite / 8oz. OJ / 2 Slices Ezekial Bread (40g P / 60g C)
    2) 5 XL Eggs (35g P / 25g F)
    3) 6 oz Grilled Chicken / 1/4 cup Almonds (40g P / 16g F)
    4) (Pre-W) 1 scoop Dymatize Elite / Watermellon (25g P / 30g C)
    Intra-W - 15g BCAA / Gatorate Powder (20g C)
    5) (Post-W) 2 scoops Dymatize Elite / Malto/Gatorade Powder (50g P / 40g C)
    6) 6oz. Turkey Burger / 3/4 cup Brown Rice / 1 cup Asparagus / 1 Tbspn Olive Oil (40g P / 90g C / 20g F)
    7) 5oz. Grilled Chicken / 1/2 cup Brown Rice (30g P / 60g C)

    260g P / 300g C / 61g F = 2789 kcal


    This is as high as I'm going to be taking my protein. I would have liked to get in more carbs today, maybe up to 350.


    So, basically it's been a week on Compound 20. Weight is down almost 3 pounds, but I attribute this to my diet.
    Like I mentioned earlier, I do feel more pumped and tight the past two days. More than I usually would on low carb and not training for two days, and no Agmatine for two days.

    Interesting to see if this continues and if it is the Compound 20 kicking in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    Not sure about this but SLINTropins write up for berberine looks stikingly similar to mine without citations and a few big words...

    ill be following your log
    Glad to have you aboard.

    I'm actually interested in your Recompadrol. I'm really fascinated with GDA's as I believe certain ones can be beneficial for so many different purposes. There's no doubt in my mind that using certain GDA's properly one can offset future degenerative diseases, as many are caused by insulin/blood sugar problems. I've even seen type 2 diabetics halt insulin injections with the help of chromium polynicotate and vanadyl sulfate.

    I myself am a HUGE fan of Anabolic Pump (high % corosolic acid) for increase in glycogen storage. I also find Vanadyl Sulfate along with Chromium Polynicotate FANTASTIC for keeping blood glucose low while eating higher GI carbohydrates. I've done the tests myself and found these two work remarkably.

    In regards to Recompadrol, I am wondering what the reason is for including ALL of those ingredients and how can they all possibly work synergistically? Also, your opinion on Vanadyl Sulfate and whether or not it induces GLUT 4 translocation in muscle similar to corosolic acid?
    I've use Vanadyl for for cheat meals, but used to use it as a GDA. Strangely, sometimes I would notice ridiculous pumps and glycogen storage, but sometimes it would leave me totally flat, disposing of glucose completely. I believe it may be a timing of dosage issue, but I'm not sure.

    Your thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    Glad to have you aboard.

    I'm actually interested in your Recompadrol. I'm really fascinated with GDA's as I believe certain ones can be beneficial for so many different purposes. There's no doubt in my mind that using certain GDA's properly one can offset future degenerative diseases, as many are caused by insulin/blood sugar problems. I've even seen type 2 diabetics halt insulin injections with the help of chromium polynicotate and vanadyl sulfate.

    I myself am a HUGE fan of Anabolic Pump (high % corosolic acid) for increase in glycogen storage. I also find Vanadyl Sulfate along with Chromium Polynicotate FANTASTIC for keeping blood glucose low while eating higher GI carbohydrates. I've done the tests myself and found these two work remarkably.

    In regards to Recompadrol, I am wondering what the reason is for including ALL of those ingredients and how can they all possibly work synergistically? Also, your opinion on Vanadyl Sulfate and whether or not it induces GLUT 4 translocation in muscle similar to corosolic acid?
    I've use Vanadyl for for cheat meals, but used to use it as a GDA. Strangely, sometimes I would notice ridiculous pumps and glycogen storage, but sometimes it would leave me totally flat, disposing of glucose completely. I believe it may be a timing of dosage issue, but I'm not sure.

    Your thoughts?
    Hey man,

    Glad you are interested. I created this product soley for the using in diabetics, but in doing so i found theres much use for these mechanisms in this industry. Ill certainly take you through my reasonings of why i chose what i chose.

    All the ingrients i use are related to increasing glucose uptake via multiple pathways that interact with glut4 translocation. *AMPk activation, PI3k (insulin pathway), PPARa agonizing*

    These all work together very well the problem with it is it is not very selective. But with the addition of things like berberine, Corosolic acid, ect it decreases Akt somewhat to reduce adipogenesis. This is good because once fat cells multiply you cant really get rid of them, but you can shrink them. That what the PPARy antagonists/partial agonist, Akt inhibition, and ACL inhibition is there to aid in.

    So by adding the others *ppary antagonist, ACL inhibition, Akt inhibition* you can reduce the uptake some what in adipose cells, but not completely. so this is why together it created something pretty nice

    As far as the pumps. I find GDAs to be best used either with an intraworkout shake, like one USP labs described as the mass monster, i believe, or taken pre meal then waiting about 2 hours before hitting the gym. Thats when i find the pumps most pronounce

    Heres the write up

    Check the sources and read through the spots you find interesting.

    Back to compound 20, i hear good things. i like your logs. Very thorough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    I'm a week into C20 so far.

    Just subscribed to your log. Good luck, I'll be following. I hope we both see some results with this stuff!
    Same to you brother!
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    My metabolic course just covered Vanadium and actually referenced it blocking absorption of amino acids -- attempt to pubmed that? I don't have time, what with graduation fastly approaching.
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    Day 9:

    Trained chest today.
    Had a great workout! Stength was up as were pumps and vascularity.

    Got home and noticed I looked noticeably leaner in the abdomen.

    Diet was on point today. 250g P / 320g C

    Going to be a low carb and AM cardio day tomorrow.

    I am definitely noticing changes in my body composition. This can definitely be attributed to my diet and training, but the changes seem to be coming quicker than they usually would with the same diet/training. We'll see if this continues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neddo View Post
    My metabolic course just covered Vanadium and actually referenced it blocking absorption of amino acids -- attempt to pubmed that? I don't have time, what with graduation fastly approaching.
    VERY interesting! Do you know if this applies the Vanadyl Sulfate form of Vandium?

    BTW, what field are you studying?
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    I had the best results early in my run with c20, seemed my body got used to it and it tapered off near the middle of the second bottle. Hope this continues to work for you man, obviously diet and training is going to be crucial.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    VERY interesting! Do you know if this applies the Vanadyl Sulfate form of Vandium?

    BTW, what field are you studying?
    I dont believe it applies to the vanadyl sulphate or free form vanadium. All things shown are from sodium orthovanadate and pervandate.

    There is nothing regarding vanadium/vanadyl sulphate on system A amino acid transport.

    ill continue to look however nothing i found stated it. There are differences in organic salts with vanadium as there is with different Carnitines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    VERY interesting! Do you know if this applies the Vanadyl Sulfate form of Vandium?

    BTW, what field are you studying?
    I'll defer the first question to EBF VVV. I've just completed science of nutrition and exercise, but I'm returning to complete the dietetics requirements as well. Fwiw, my metabolic 2 professor was a fuarking twat who was a prior genetics professor -- this was the first semester she's taught metabolic 2 (vitamins/minerals). Powerpoints were a joke, and her questions were beyond ambiguous.

    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    I dont believe it applies to the vanadyl sulphate or free form vanadium. All things shown are from sodium orthovanadate and pervandate.

    There is nothing regarding vanadium/vanadyl sulphate on system A amino acid transport.

    ill continue to look however nothing i found stated it. There are differences in organic salts with vanadium as there is with different Carnitines.
    It was sodium orthovanadate I believe. I don't have time to devote to this, so I'm glad you're investigating it further -- I appreciate it.


    Also @ Clem, glad to hear your results thus far.
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    Day 10:

    Woke up and did fasted cardio. 30 minutes on the eliptical with two scoops Modern BCAA.

    Kept carbs lower today at 120g. Arms and Abs tomorrow.

    Today I continued to feel tighter and more pumped. Also looking leaner. Interested to see how my pumps are tomorrow with Arms.
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    Only been on AM a few times (I am one of those bb.com bums ). I have some C20 I picked up with the Erase Pro combo to use later this summer, was searching around and saw this log. Once I saw that loser Neddo posting, but more importantly the GDA (used SS for a while and using SLINTropin now with great success) and protein talk, I figured it was time to sign up here and subscribe to a log. So congrats Clemenza, you have popped my AM cherry... Also figured this appears to be where the banned bb.com guys go, so odds are at some point I will be making my way here anyhow lol

    EDIT - fyi, no clue what to expect with C20, I simply got it because I was interested in Erase Pro and the pricepoint on the combo made sense versus buying solo. Only ever used Super Cissus, so no love or hate for USPLabs (yet I guess)!!!

    I know, I know, strong 1st post...
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    Quote Originally Posted by neddo View Post
    I'll defer the first question to EBF VVV. I've just completed science of nutrition and exercise, but I'm returning to complete the dietetics requirements as well. Fwiw, my metabolic 2 professor was a fuarking twat who was a prior genetics professor -- this was the first semester she's taught metabolic 2 (vitamins/minerals). Powerpoints were a joke, and her questions were beyond ambiguous.



    It was sodium orthovanadate I believe. I don't have time to devote to this, so I'm glad you're investigating it further -- I appreciate it.


    Also @ Clem, glad to hear your results thus far.
    yea im not seeing anything on VS and system a amino acid transport still... i tried searching Vanadium and mTOR, but came up short of what i was lookging for.

    ill continue to search, but still nothing has detered me from its use. It works incredibly well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    yea im not seeing anything on VS and system a amino acid transport still... i tried searching Vanadium and mTOR, but came up short of what i was lookging for.

    ill continue to search, but still nothing has detered me from its use. It works incredibly well.
    Not to deter this thread, but any idea when Recompadrol will be more readily available in the states? Used Slin Sane for a while, using SLINTropin now, so would make for a good comparison.

    Cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post
    Not to deter this thread, but any idea when Recompadrol will be more readily available in the states? Used Slin Sane for a while, using SLINTropin now, so would make for a good comparison.

    Cheers
    I have heard soon, like by June. However, check this thread for updates: RECOMPADROL NEWS!
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    Quote Originally Posted by sae2110 View Post
    I have heard soon, like by June. However, check this thread for updates:
    Thx bro, subb'd to that thread. Loved you in Scrubs!

    Great log so far OP, very interested to see how C20 treats you. I probably won't be using until later this summer I think. Just wrapping up my current log now, and have another one planned after.
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    Yes it should be by june. Having some issues getting the banaba in.

    due to the high potency and cost. But should be here in june. Definitely check out the thread and look for updates. Going to try and push the manufacturer along. unfortunately being on top of them too much or too little can slow down production.
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    Yes it should be by june. Having some issues getting the banaba in.

    due to the high potency and cost. But should be here in june. Definitely check out the thread and look for updates. Going to try and push the manufacturer along. unfortunately being on top of them too much or too little can slow down production.
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    Day 11:

    I was still a little shot today from my back and chest days. Did arms this morning and although somewhat fatigued, still had a good workout.

    I'm definitely looking leaner and my muscles look much harder. It's hard to explain.

    Usually this time of year while I am going lower carb, I am glycogen depleted so usually somewhat flat. But right now, I am glycogen depleted but I have a density to my muscles that is usually not there. I have a pump, but it is not a carb pump.

    I just got back from dinner and had a much deserved cheat meal. Chicken fajitas and a few margaritas. 20mg Vanadyl Sulfate and 400mg chromium polynicotate and I should be pretty dry tomorrow.

    Shoulders tomorrow morning. Then going to the Yankee game with my girl, sister and her boyfriend. The $9 Bud Light's should keep me sticking with water and peanuts all game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post
    Only been on AM a few times (I am one of those bb.com bums ). I have some C20 I picked up with the Erase Pro combo to use later this summer, was searching around and saw this log. Once I saw that loser Neddo posting, but more importantly the GDA (used SS for a while and using SLINTropin now with great success) and protein talk, I figured it was time to sign up here and subscribe to a log. So congrats Clemenza, you have popped my AM cherry... Also figured this appears to be where the banned bb.com guys go, so odds are at some point I will be making my way here anyhow lol

    EDIT - fyi, no clue what to expect with C20, I simply got it because I was interested in Erase Pro and the pricepoint on the combo made sense versus buying solo. Only ever used Super Cissus, so no love or hate for USPLabs (yet I guess)!!!

    I know, I know, strong 1st post...
    Watch it, this old guy loves the older ladies (ie, grandmas). Repeat offender.

    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    yea im not seeing anything on VS and system a amino acid transport still... i tried searching Vanadium and mTOR, but came up short of what i was lookging for.

    ill continue to search, but still nothing has detered me from its use. It works incredibly well.
    Again, I appreciate your time to go through the journals on your own time. I'd like to say I'll have time next week, but now my computer is having troubles (send me a sample from your company, dbone ) so that's another bone to pick.
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    Good to see you're starting to lean out. Have you had any changes in vascularity?
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    Quote Originally Posted by breezy11
    Good to see you're starting to lean out. Have you had any changes in vascularity?
    Yea I was wondering this also. Breezy and I both noticed huge changes in vascularity. All tho we both leaned out quite a bit and it goes hand in hand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc

    Hey man,

    Glad you are interested. I created this product soley for the using in diabetics, but in doing so i found theres much use for these mechanisms in this industry. Ill certainly take you through my reasonings of why i chose what i chose.

    All the ingrients i use are related to increasing glucose uptake via multiple pathways that interact with glut4 translocation. *AMPk activation, PI3k (insulin pathway), PPARa agonizing*

    These all work together very well the problem with it is it is not very selective. But with the addition of things like berberine, Corosolic acid, ect it decreases Akt somewhat to reduce adipogenesis. This is good because once fat cells multiply you cant really get rid of them, but you can shrink them. That what the PPARy antagonists/partial agonist, Akt inhibition, and ACL inhibition is there to aid in.

    So by adding the others *ppary antagonist, ACL inhibition, Akt inhibition* you can reduce the uptake some what in adipose cells, but not completely. so this is why together it created something pretty nice

    As far as the pumps. I find GDAs to be best used either with an intraworkout shake, like one USP labs described as the mass monster, i believe, or taken pre meal then waiting about 2 hours before hitting the gym. Thats when i find the pumps most pronounce

    Heres the write up

    Check the sources and read through the spots you find interesting.

    Back to compound 20, i hear good things. i like your logs. Very thorough
    What's this mass monster drink?
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