KLEEN - The PCT Plan w/ CEL PCT Assist & Suppress C (Sponsored)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Well first off I got to the gym and did my upper body push stuff went to put on my TK's and didn't have them. My shoulders were pretty beat to so I decided to just go to the gym tomorrow fresh and hit about 6 - 8 sets of squats from 3-6 reps with a normal tempo and see what I can do with them. I will probably do them below parallel but not rock bottom.

    So here is the workout from today.

    HS Wide Chest Press - 90x5, 135x5, 135x5, 145x5, 150x5, 150x5 got into a zone and did an extra set, I didn't realize until after I went to write it down I had done an extra one. I started much heavier on the first two sets this time in an effort to keep top end numbers from climbing to high.

    HS Shoulder Press - 70x5, 100x5, 110x5, 110x5, 110x5 by the final set this had me really pushing. I will start my second set at 110 and see if I can finish next time before going up higher. Again, I started much heavier on the first two sets this time in an effort to keep top end numbers from climbing to high.

    Dips BWx5 shoulders were feeling this a bit so opted for cable triceps extensions.
    Cable Triceps Extensions - 80x6, 140x5, 150x5, 160x5, 160x5, man with the slower reps and locking my elbows in and not letting them move I got such crazy contraction it almost hurt it was a deliciously painful contraction.

    I am weighing in now at about 210, carbing up is fun. LOL I am slowing down a bit and will eat my big breakfast tomorrow then done with the carb up and back to normal maybe on medium carb meal in the afternoon.

    Cool that sounds like it might be the issue let us know it is always good to learn stuff about using this stuff the most effective way.
    Nice workout.

    ever tried the low fat brownies sold in Kroger? (on sale for like $1.25) in the brownies section, red box it says low fat brownies

    mix coconut oil with them (only 15 grams fat) and the brownies altogether are like 500 carbohydrates, I like to eat other refined carb foods so I only eat a couple brownies , put them in the fridge and save them for post workouts. They are fantastic
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    Nice wo bro

    Done with my DMZ run
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwitt View Post
    Nice wo bro

    Done with my DMZ run
    Isn't it crazy how fast time is flying by!
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    Nice workout.

    ever tried the low fat brownies sold in Kroger? (on sale for like $1.25) in the brownies section, red box it says low fat brownies

    mix coconut oil with them (only 15 grams fat) and the brownies altogether are like 500 carbohydrates, I like to eat other refined carb foods so I only eat a couple brownies , put them in the fridge and save them for post workouts. They are fantastic
    Man I am going to Kroger! LOL Now you did it man. I'm gonna be running down the baked goods isle like a
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Man I am going to Kroger! LOL Now you did it man. I'm gonna be running down the baked goods isle like a
    ROFL..That sounds soooo good!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Man I am going to Kroger! LOL Now you did it man. I'm gonna be running down the baked goods isle like a
    nice. let me know how you like them. The directions are real easy to follow. coat the pan with a light thing of oil so it does not stick to the pan
    1/2 cup of water, one egg, and a tablespoon of oil, I find coconut oil makes them taste the best.

    a plastic knife cuts them much much better then a silver knife. Ive been eating them a while now and found this out by trial and error

    great for re-feeds or post workout carbs and yummmmm
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    Nice workout.

    ever tried the low fat brownies sold in Kroger? (on sale for like $1.25) in the brownies section, red box it says low fat brownies

    mix coconut oil with them (only 15 grams fat) and the brownies altogether are like 500 carbohydrates, I like to eat other refined carb foods so I only eat a couple brownies , put them in the fridge and save them for post workouts. They are fantastic
    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Man I am going to Kroger! LOL Now you did it man. I'm gonna be running down the baked goods isle like a
    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    nice. let me know how you like them. The directions are real easy to follow. coat the pan with a light thing of oil so it does not stick to the pan
    1/2 cup of water, one egg, and a tablespoon of oil, I find coconut oil makes them taste the best.

    a plastic knife cuts them much much better then a silver knife. Ive been eating them a while now and found this out by trial and error

    great for re-feeds or post workout carbs and yummmmm
    I gotta try these low-fat brownies out. And I'll be tossing in one extra ingredient. My "special" recipe, if you will.

    Funny thing is, the more you eat..........the hungrier you get. Go figure......

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    PCT 10 days in.


    Just a quick run down of supps currently being taken.
    CEL PCT Assist 2 times a day, CEL Suppress C 2 doses a day, LG's Formadrol at night in a 4,3,2,1 dose going down 1 cap weekly currently at 3 per.

    So here is a synopsis of what I have done the past 10 days in PCT other than that. I have increased carbs a little last week to keep muscles full of glycogen, I feel this is the best way to have some protein sparing action. Insulin is the only anabolic hormone I have any control over right now so I am using it to my advantage. However after loading up a bit this weekend I am taking a 3-4 day Kleen up period. My testes have already increased in size considerably so I feel I am producing at least enough test to maintain me for 3-4 days of low carb eating. A week of higher caloric intake should have primed me to only lose fat these next few days. Like I said in the beginning I don't plan on losing my muscle over dieting but I don't plan on losing my conditioning just to keep the scale consistent either.

    Either way I am up at 209 this morning and my abs look like they did at the begining of this run. I am going to just eat like I did on cycle this week and let the fat and water fall off then carb up again this weekend. I will however still do about 75-100 gram of carbs on training days right after the workout. After that back to low carb. So this weeks carb intake will look like this. Monday 25-50, Tuesday 100, Wednesday 25-50, Thursday 100, Friday 50, Saturday 1000, Sunday 200-250 there is a very good chance I will start my carb up Friday afternoon and if so it will be Friday 400, Saturday 600, and Sunday 200-250 or if I actually move my workout it will be Workout Friday morning then carb up 1000, Saturday 300, Sunday 200 either way as you can see carb cycling is going to be what keeps me in check.

    I will do that this week and if I feel I am cleaned up enough I will eat a little bigger next week again like I did last week to keep size from dropping. I know I can not eat in Surplus longer than 2 weeks without gaining too much fat so that is my plan to arrange things around the waistline. I have a good feeling that once I settle into a lean weight it will be about 202-204 which will be excellent and not any significant loss from the end of the run.

    It is extremely likely I will be needing surgery on this shoulder of mine. I am working around it but it is definitely a torn/abraded spot in the cartilage in the joint. It typically doesn't hurt at all, but sometimes I can feel my shoulder get hung up on the torn tissue and it drags around on it causing that interior pain, the kind that makes your stomach drop until it pulls on the esophogus making you want to hurl a little. That is just from moving my arm around not with weight like twisting the shoulder in the socket or something. Just certain rotations will get it to flair, I call it a flash pain. I know my motions I can and can't do in training and have done well to mostly avoid them. However I am going to soldier right on through this until I feel I have secured the gains from this run before having anything done to it. As long as i train smart I will be okay. I will be completely removing the seated rows from my pull days and replacing with Dead Lifts only. So pull days will be HS High Rows, Curls, Deadlifts, and maybe shrugs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post



    .

    It is extremely likely I will be needing surgery on this shoulder of mine. I am working around it but it is definitely a torn/abraded spot in the cartilage in the joint. It typically doesn't hurt at all, but sometimes I can feel my shoulder get hung up on the torn tissue and it drags around on it causing that interior pain, the kind that makes your stomach drop until it pulls on the esophogus making you want to hurl a little. That is just from moving my arm around not with weight like twisting the shoulder in the socket or something. Just certain rotations will get it to flair, I call it a flash pain. I know my motions I can and can't do in training and have done well to mostly avoid them. However I am going to soldier right on through this until I feel I have secured the gains from this run before having anything done to it. As long as i train smart I will be okay. I will be completely removing the seated rows from my pull days and replacing with Dead Lifts only. So pull days will be HS High Rows, Curls, Deadlifts, and maybe shrugs.
    seated rows aggravate the shoulder? is it the supraspinatus tendon, as thats the one in the rear that is common?

    I have been battling a shoulder for five months now. Physical therapy, deep tissue, avoiding anything that causes pain is all I can do. Icing or pain creme as well.

    Man sorry to hear about getting shoulder surgery because that means youll be out for a long and I have had my share of time off and as a avid trainer of muscles, I know how taking time off is and knowing you cant do anything but just rest. In my opinion surgery is last and I mean very last choice.
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    Talk about a bitter sweet post....on the one hand your progress on PCT is phenomenal. You upcoming diet looks tight and set up to keep the gains you worked so hard to attain. And then on the other hand you gotta get surgery...never fun but if it will put you back at 100% then i think its well worth it.

    Keep Kleening it up bro, we are all backing you up!
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    Damn bad luck mate

    But let's wait and see what they say
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    It is extremely likely I will be needing surgery on this shoulder of mine. I am working around it but it is definitely a torn/abraded spot in the cartilage in the joint. It typically doesn't hurt at all, but sometimes I can feel my shoulder get hung up on the torn tissue and it drags around on it causing that interior pain, the kind that makes your stomach drop until it pulls on the esophogus making you want to hurl a little. That is just from moving my arm around not with weight like twisting the shoulder in the socket or something. Just certain rotations will get it to flair, I call it a flash pain. I know my motions I can and can't do in training and have done well to mostly avoid them. However I am going to soldier right on through this until I feel I have secured the gains from this run before having anything done to it. As long as i train smart I will be okay. I will be completely removing the seated rows from my pull days and replacing with Dead Lifts only. So pull days will be HS High Rows, Curls, Deadlifts, and maybe shrugs.
    John Smeton said it right when he said that surgery is the very LAST option I would agree to.

    Did that aflutop not help out at all? Maybe you need another round of it with a more aggressive dosing protocol.

    I really, really hate this for you Chris. I know your love of training and this just blows. It would drive me to the point of total insanity to be told that I couldn't train for X amount of time.

    Take care of that shoulder. Slather on the Emu Oil before and after your training sessions. And consider another round of aflutop.

    That's Dr. Thunder's diagnosis and prognosis.
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    My shoulder has been off since I injured over 2 years ago. For the most part I can work around it dibilitates my chest development more than my actual shoulder development. I am also not able to do back squats (heavy ones) so I do front. It looks like I will never see really big weight again in bench press or any chest exercise. I can still do ok in shoulder exercises but not my big lifts I used to do. It not only hurts but it's quite weak at the point of injury...
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    Not knowing what the diagnosis is or what the doctors are seeing, I will hold off on making my recommendation for treatment in the future. I will say I share Thunder's sentiment completely; especially considering that I am facing the possibility of surgery just like Chris is. That said, I was told repeatedly by two surgeons my shoulders needed to be operated on or I would never lose the tendon/rotator cuff pain that existed in both. They were both wrong, period. I had to be patient, develop strength in the small accessory muscles in the joint over a long time, almost 3 years actually, before I could some serious shoulder work to build them up. In Chris's case that may not be an option and I assume with his knowledge of the body, he has tried everything to this point. As hard as it is to admit, sometimes one cannot deny that we are fallible and have to give in to getting what is necessary to fix a problem.
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    not sure that Kleen got that Alfutop in yet... last I checked it was still not there...
    Working on living
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    Kleen I will say this only because I have not ran into any injuries my friend but we only get one body in this lifetime! Make it count. . if you need surgery so be it. . take the time off. . and set the pride aside my friend! I know its something that we all have to do. . .but in the end its for the best my friend
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    Kleen, you ever thought of using some deca, or would that even help?

    Second, are you using Ghen for your PCT as well? If not, I found it's been really helpful to my past PCT's regarding maintaining mass.
    ...GMG760 Version 2.0 ... Back from the dead.
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    Day 11 PCT


    I will start with an update then move to the response regarding my shoulder.

    I woke up this morning already looking much leaner than yesterday. I weighed myself just to see since I was soo much leaner or should I say drier. I was 207 and some change. So I flushed about 2 lbs of water yesterday. From looking at me right now I will say that I am definitely going to be looking pretty nice in the 200-205 range and very good once I get under 200. At this point it would be too early to tell but I think if I don't lose muscle I could realistically see 7% somewhere around 199-201.

    My wife not being at work continues to plague my morning workouts. We had 2 alarms always on before. One at 3:50AM for going to the gym and one for 6:00AM incase we didn't go. Well in an effort not to wake the wife up I had been turning off the second one. Somehow I set the second one last night instead of the first and missed my workout completely. I packed up my gym bag and have it ready, I know it is going to be crazy busy at the gym but I need to get my dead lifts in today on top of the rest of this pull workout. Since I didn't ever get squats in on Sunday, Wifey had me busy ALL DAY so now I need to hit the deads so my legs get some stimulation. I am not worried about making up the squats but I don't want to go any longer without stimulating my legs somewhat.

    Tonight I will gradually work up on my deads. I already know I can hit 315 with out any shoulder pain so that will be the first actual working set. I am not going to do the slow negatives today as I am gearing up to see if I can do a max next week for the contest. Don't worry gentlemen, if there is any issue with soreness increasing or worse yet, pain during the lift I will be cutting out Deads for a while too but if they are one of the pulling exercises I can do without pain I am going to capitalize on them.

    Now for the Shoulder talk...

    Thanks everyone! I am not disregarding your opinions or concerns on this matter at all. However, I am going to do what I do as long as I can feel it isn't getting worse. As I said I have learned what aggravates it, and can avoid that plane of motion relatively easily. It is not a tendon or bone pain though this is torn / worn cartilage. I know in my heart this is what it is. I have been through so many injuries and this is a very distinct feeling. I can feel it EXACTLY like when they had to repair the cartilage last time.

    John, it isn't that tendon you mentioned, it is where the pulling/rowing leverages the end of my humorous bone so that it goes up into the shoulder socket pushing on the worn area that causes the pain during rows originating from below the shoulders since it is on the upper rear of the join't it is just the way it gets moved in the joint that places it against that area. It does not hit that spot doing High Rows though... Interesting eh...
    When it goes across that spot it becomes painful and you can sometimes hear it grind. However it is hard to find that spot just moving it around without some resistance. I am trying to get a little more PTO on the books so I can schedule my MRI. My wife having surgery used up a portion taking time off for Dr apps and her first day home all that good stuff.

    My biggest issue is that I have 100% coverage on insurance right now but if I wait until after the new year I won't. That is a difference of thousands of dollars out of pocket. I unfortunately don't have the luxury to ignore that difference or to put this off if I know it will be required.

    All of that being said... just how long do you think that surgery will keep me down? I can tell you, NOT LONG AT ALL!!! I will go on a cut and do cardio starting the next week when I can go back to work. Then I will go on a leg blast with only machines while allowing my entire upper body to heal from this trouble it has gone through for the past few years. Some of my tendons will get a chance to heal for about 6 weeks, and then have a break in period for my tendons. I am with all of you in praying I am wrong, 85% surety is just me going on what I feel and have felt before. As soon as I can get to the doctor for the MRI I will update you guys on that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMG760 View Post
    Kleen, you ever thought of using some deca, or would that even help?

    Second, are you using Ghen for your PCT as well? If not, I found it's been really helpful to my past PCT's regarding maintaining mass.
    I had a friend who had a severe case of Deca D*ck and it kind of frightened me away from that compound. Took him like 6-8 months to recover. However it might help. I was looking at Anavar or Equipoise though for the same reasons.

    As a matter of fact Anavar was probably going to be part of my recovery plan. It really is a shame that stuff can't be prescribed for that purpose when everyone who knows anything about those 3 knows they help with soft tissue repairs.

    As far as Ghen, Oh HELL YES! It is a staple. As is IGH-1 I take only during the week. Works really well with the UD2 diet having 2.5 days of carb mania is the perfect time to get my 2 days a week off. It is such a staple somehow I forgot to mention I was running it. You can assume if I am breathing i am running my GH stuff on a 5/2 dosing schedule. I didn't even think about the fact that may be part of the amazing success I am having so far in PCT. i bet it is definitely helping out. Probably keeping my shoulder pretty intact too.
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    Damn Kleen..Shoulder problem again, damn! Sorry to hear this, we all know how much you put into this..Do what you need to do...

    On another note, you must be lookin awesome at 207 at 6-7% still?
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    Yea, Deca will cause that... which is why you run Test with it.

    I'm not saying to do or not do anything... just throwing it out there.
    ...GMG760 Version 2.0 ... Back from the dead.
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    Day 11 Dead Lift Heaven


    Okay guys not going to go crazy with update since I did that earlier.
    Here is the pull workout from today. Went rather well and leaving the lower rows out kept my shoulder in pristine condition through out. Strength surprised me today.


    Pull Tempo 3-0-1 on all but dead lifts. Weight is per side.
    HS High Row - 90x5, 135x5, 145x5, 145x5, 155x5, 165x5 did an extra set because an old friend cooled me down about 4 minutes to chat and I felt fresh enough for another go at it and kind just wanted the 3 plates and a quarter on there.

    Normal Tempo for Deadlifts.
    Dead Lifts - 135x8, 225x8, 315x8, 365x5, 415x3 all done with only gloves on to protect my purdy hands. LOL I should have only done 6 on the 315 set and I may have gone up to 425. O now I could have gotten 5 on 415 with raps. I wasn't having a problem lifting the weight but holding on to it on the 415 set was a bitch! Considering I have done NO GRIP WORK in a very long time from my tendinitis. I have been using wraps on every pulling lift for about 6 months now. So knowing that and that I haven't been dead lifting for a while this is DAMN good stuff for me. I am definitely impressed with this lift.

    Back to 3-0-1 tempo for last to lifts
    Icaarian Curl machine 112.5x5, 112.5x5, 112.5x5, 112.5x4, 112.5x3 - This is the one like if a preacher curl held your elbows straight out in front of you, it really forces you to elongate the biceps if you go all the way down. Nice machine.

    HS Shrugs, 135x5, 135x5, 180x5, 205x5, 230x5 - the weight is per side. On the last to sets I had put a 25 on the handles on the other side to add weight, so I had 2 25s on each handle when finally done. I did use wraps on the last set only. My traps were not done but my grip was.


    Quote Originally Posted by FlexW99 View Post
    Damn Kleen..Shoulder problem again, damn! Sorry to hear this, we all know how much you put into this..Do what you need to do...

    On another note, you must be lookin awesome at 207 at 6-7% still?
    Man I know I said I will have to have surgery and I am still pretty sure I will need it but I have so many options to work around here. I am not going to lose any of this unless I give up on myself. My form has never been better I have figured out exactly how to be explosive and controlled at the same time, always securing my joints in a safe position before beginning the lift or rep. Like I said I wont drag it out. My doctor will tell me point blank. He is the head of Sports Medicine and Orthopedics, and is all business. He is the one that told me to suck it up and push through the pain if I wanted a better range of motion a few years ago. Yes those were his exact words. I went in complaining of pain and limited range of motion and he said you have 85% if not 90% range of motion that is a success. I told him not what for a guy who grapples it isn't so he said. Well in that case suck it up and push through the pain. Break up the scar tissue and you will get a better range of motion it is all in how bad you want that ROM. Well that was all I needed to hear it was go time.

    Yeah man I am big as a house and looking pretty good. I am not 6-7 % now though, more like 9% like in the beginning of this run. However I think I can hit 6-7% between 199-201 if I play my cards right.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
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    nice lift man,

    and thanks for popping over and giving that dude some help at IM

    Looks great for someone who broke his back just reassures you that anything is possible as you will overcome yours
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    I had a friend who had a severe case of Deca D*ck and it kind of frightened me away from that compound. Took him like 6-8 months to recover. However it might help. I was looking at Anavar or Equipoise though for the same reasons.

    As a matter of fact Anavar was probably going to be part of my recovery plan. It really is a shame that stuff can't be prescribed for that purpose when everyone who knows anything about those 3 knows they help with soft tissue repairs.

    As far as Ghen, Oh HELL YES! It is a staple. As is IGH-1 I take only during the week. Works really well with the UD2 diet having 2.5 days of carb mania is the perfect time to get my 2 days a week off. It is such a staple somehow I forgot to mention I was running it. You can assume if I am breathing i am running my GH stuff on a 5/2 dosing schedule. I didn't even think about the fact that may be part of the amazing success I am having so far in PCT. i bet it is definitely helping out. Probably keeping my shoulder pretty intact too.
    while I only plan on using over the counters last year I used 14ad, a prohormone to equipoise and it really helped my joints I feel , due to the fact it converts to estrogen.if you have joint challenges non- aromatizating ones are generally a no no.

    Dymeth most likely isn't a joint friendly compound since it does not convert to estrogen. the only otc I know of is m14add which has this effect (never done it myself though) on paper it would appear to help the joints

    also remember your in pct. I still stand by my theory I posted in the other thread that in pct while hormone levels( test and estrogen are low and raising) and if you train like a complete maniac your going to experience joint issues. That is why I take 2 weeks off after then when I do come back maybe after 3 weeks I stay in the 10-12 rep range generally for a month. take another week off then lower the reps after blood work conforms my test is int he mid to higher ranges(500 or higher)

    on a side note ai's are a no no as well with people with severe injuries like we have had, although 6-oxo and maybe form may not be that bad. stuff like atd crushes estrogen , even lower dosed, and estrogen is actually beneficial, esp for us with injuries, joint challenges.
    Follow me on facebook, twitter and youtube, where I share information and videos to help you achieve your physique goals, John Smeton Ftness
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    subbed bud... damn 9 days late and I already got 4 pages of reading to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    I had a friend who had a severe case of Deca D*ck and it kind of frightened me away from that compound. Took him like 6-8 months to recover. However it might help. I was looking at Anavar or Equipoise though for the same reasons.
    As GMG already stated, Deca is no problem IF you run Test with it. As for myself, I won't run any compound again without a Test base. It matters that much,
    But of all those options you just listed, I advise you to go with the Anavar. It's tabs, so your wife shouldn't have a big problem with it (no pinning). Tell her it's a natty joint rehab med. LOL

    Seriously though, I know you won't lie to her and I DON'T recommend that you do. But some Var would really help you through this thingy. 100 mgs. daily.

    Consider.......
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

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    Heal up buddy!!!!
    I pick things up...I put them down! The quest to be HUGE!!!!
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    man Kleen you are going to be a BEAST at that weight and BF!!!!
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