KLEEN - The PCT Plan w/ CEL PCT Assist & Suppress C (Sponsored)

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by MrBigPR View Post
    I would adjust cals to what you will have after PCT since maintaining muscle is something very important. pointless to eat like a horse if you're going to just slash cals after PCT. talk about losing gains...
    As a general rule of thumb adding more calories in PCT is recommended.

    when on hormonals you can eat less carbs and still get a great pump, something about the muscle is more sensitive on "anabolics". I'd have to look it up its in Chris Acteos Championship Bodybuilding book.

    when off you need more carbs to achieve a pump
    Millennium Sport Technologies Representative
    Mind and Muscle Code AM10
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  2. Very nice log!!!

    Serious Nutrition Solution ~~

    SNS/CEL Black Friday sales
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/serio...ml#post5897056
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  3. Ya my weight took a nose dive in PCT, but that was fine with me. Close to 240 was not a pretty look.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by MrBigPR View Post
    I would adjust cals to what you will have after PCT since maintaining muscle is something very important. pointless to eat like a horse if you're going to just slash cals after PCT. talk about losing gains...
    And yet we see so many people doing just that. They'll go straight into a full blown cut right after PCT. Going all the way back to square one. ha ha Losing their size, stength, and lastly motivation.

    When will they ever learn?
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

    "Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High."

  5. Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    When will they ever learn?

    Unfortunately, some will never
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    I may have to do this if mine keeps limiting me to keep progressing in weights(and at least lift weights I used to)
    Yeah, Ed said it worked well for him, and Big too
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBigPR View Post
    I would adjust cals to what you will have after PCT since maintaining muscle is something very important. pointless to eat like a horse if you're going to just slash cals after PCT. talk about losing gains...
    Oh definitely not going on a cut right now. My new diet is about the same calories as now just spread out over the week so I am not bloating up so much on weekends. I want to stay over 200 for a couple months to let this weight become the homeostasis that my body wants to keep instead of it wanting to shed muscle to get back to the previous size.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    As a general rule of thumb adding more calories in PCT is recommended.

    when on hormonals you can eat less carbs and still get a great pump, something about the muscle is more sensitive on "anabolics". I'd have to look it up its in Chris Acteos Championship Bodybuilding book.

    when off you need more carbs to achieve a pump
    This is a big reason why my carbs have been higher during the week in PCT than when on the DMZ. I also waited to start taking my GDA's until I was in PCT so I would still get the Glut4 activation like I was ON. I didn't need a GDA on the DMZ it took care of all the Glut4 activation I needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    Very nice log!!!
    Thanks, I am really enjoying the products too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88 View Post
    Ya my weight took a nose dive in PCT, but that was fine with me. Close to 240 was not a pretty look.
    Man just gets me when I see that you were close to 240 at 5'7" that is so fugging huge. Man to stand next to you must be like standing next to Ox, and I am sure you have no idea how big you look to others.
    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    And yet we see so many people doing just that. They'll go straight into a full blown cut right after PCT. Going all the way back to square one. ha ha Losing their size, stength, and lastly motivation.

    When will they ever learn?
    It is interesting but I know now dieting hard after a bulk is just going to bring me right back down closer to the same size. You should try to maintain your size for at least 4 months or so before going on a severe cut. Just work at a nice recomp or minimal clean up if needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlexW99 View Post
    Unfortunately, some will never
    And they will fall by the way side leaving more room in the gym for the Iron Warriors!!!!!!
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  7. I will not start my cut after PCT but possibly a couple weeks after depending on schedule. However mass is not a concern I have and my cuts are long and slow so the calorie deficit is very slight at first.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  8. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    I will not start my cut after PCT but possibly a couple weeks after depending on schedule. However mass is not a concern I have and my cuts are long and slow so the calorie deficit is very slight at first.
    Yeah but at the same time your goal is an aggressive recomp with possible extra LBM gains right? If so your calories won't ever climb so high that you will be making a big drop afterwards. You wont be eating for pure mass, just keep your eyes on the mirror and the log book and adjust your intake from there. That and you should end up leaner than when you started so a cut won't be needed immediately. This is why I am pretty happy with where I am now. I gained all lean mass so not really any clean up needed except for water after my loading phases. Although I do wish I didn't have these fat pockets under my chest. They really make me look a lot less lean than I am and it is very frustrating. If I had the money I would have that crap sucked out! How the heck my abs gonna show and my lower chest sag. Oh well until then I need to be down in the 6-7 range to keep it semi tight.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  9. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Yeah but at the same time your goal is an aggressive recomp with possible extra LBM gains right? If so your calories won't ever climb so high that you will be making a big drop afterwards. You wont be eating for pure mass, just keep your eyes on the mirror and the log book and adjust your intake from there. That and you should end up leaner than when you started so a cut won't be needed immediately. This is why I am pretty happy with where I am now. I gained all lean mass so not really any clean up needed except for water after my loading phases. Although I do wish I didn't have these fat pockets under my chest. They really make me look a lot less lean than I am and it is very frustrating. If I had the money I would have that crap sucked out! How the heck my abs gonna show and my lower chest sag. Oh well until then I need to be down in the 6-7 range to keep it semi tight.
    Yah depends on when I have to be in contest shape for.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  10. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    I do wish I didn't have these fat pockets under my chest. They really make me look a lot less lean than I am and it is very frustrating. If I had the money I would have that crap sucked out! How the heck my abs gonna show and my lower chest sag. Oh well until then I need to be down in the 6-7 range to keep it semi tight.
    May I offer a suggestion? You could snag a couple bottles of PES' ERASE to run. My lower chest fat has decreased dramatically after running my first bottle. Looking for even more improvements as I crack open bottle #2.
    Seems that estrogen could be partially to blame for fat deposits in that area.

    Run the ERASE at 3 caps per day. 1 cap in the AM and 2 before bed.
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

    "Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High."

  11. Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    May I offer a suggestion? You could snag a couple bottles of PES' ERASE to run. My lower chest fat has decreased dramatically after running my first bottle. Looking for even more improvements as I crack open bottle #2.
    Seems that estrogen could be partially to blame for fat deposits in that area.

    Run the ERASE at 3 caps per day. 1 cap in the AM and 2 before bed.
    I won a bottle going to add it to my PCT..
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  12. Everything looking good in here

    Great results Chris look fwd to having u comp ready ......
    Eat clean, piss dirty
  13. newbie2bb
    newbie2bb's Avatar

    just wanted to let u know i am still reading and awesome journey and i am too will be watching to see alfu works ..cause i will order it to take care of my dislocated shouler issues
  14. TRT Details


    Well I just wanted to fill you guys in about my follow up with the Doctor. She said my total test was 228 and normal is starting at 240. So I was relatively recovered by the time I went in. However she said they did end up doing my cholesterol anyway and it my total was okay but my LDL was higher than my HDL. She told me this could have something to do with the low test... My blood pressure has been dropping since being off and I am not at 120/73 today. My creatinine levels were a little high to and they were concerned about that as well as my liver values being high so I had to take a Hep test. Regarding the creatinine she asked me if I was taking creatine and I told her yes she said that can make it look like my kidneys are having problems even if they aren't so she wasn't worried too much about that. What she did say is that I can start on hormone replacement therapy but my liver values have to be back down in a normal range first before she could start me on injections. She didn't even mention patches... I was shocked. So they tested my liver values again and said if it isn't down she I can wait for another month and come back to check.

    So a few things to consider, if planning to try to get on TRT after a PS cycle it wouldn't hurt to use a non liver toxic substance instead like a Tren or Max-LMG so your liver values aren't elevated. Also maybe take some cholesterol meds while on your cycle to keep everything looking as it should so when you get off your other stuff doesn't look all out of whack, just the testosterone.

    That being said I still haven't decided if I am going to take it or not. If my liver values are still high I will probably just not bother with it, or just go back in later and have everything tested to see if my t levels are back up where they should be. I may do some of the things I stated above on my next run and wait until then and get checked again too. However the TRT would make it possible for me to explore some of the other options for connective tissue correction.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  15. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Well I just wanted to fill you guys in about my follow up with the Doctor. She said my total test was 228 and normal is starting at 240. So I was relatively recovered by the time I went in. However she said they did end up doing my cholesterol anyway and it my total was okay but my LDL was higher than my HDL. She told me this could have something to do with the low test... My blood pressure has been dropping since being off and I am not at 120/73 today. My creatinine levels were a little high to and they were concerned about that as well as my liver values being high so I had to take a Hep test. Regarding the creatinine she asked me if I was taking creatine and I told her yes she said that can make it look like my kidneys are having problems even if they aren't so she wasn't worried too much about that. What she did say is that I can start on hormone replacement therapy but my liver values have to be back down in a normal range first before she could start me on injections. She didn't even mention patches... I was shocked. So they tested my liver values again and said if it isn't down she I can wait for another month and come back to check.

    So a few things to consider, if planning to try to get on TRT after a PS cycle it wouldn't hurt to use a non liver toxic substance instead like a Tren or Max-LMG so your liver values aren't elevated. Also maybe take some cholesterol meds while on your cycle to keep everything looking as it should so when you get off your other stuff doesn't look all out of whack, just the testosterone.

    That being said I still haven't decided if I am going to take it or not. If my liver values are still high I will probably just not bother with it, or just go back in later and have everything tested to see if my t levels are back up where they should be. I may do some of the things I stated above on my next run and wait until then and get checked again too. However the TRT would make it possible for me to explore some of the other options for connective tissue correction.

    Interesting....well whatever decision you do make Im confident it will be the right one

    Are you thinking on maybe trying to raise it naturally, running another PS and then hitting up the TRT?

    And who knows...maybe TRT is exactly what you need to get everythign back to par...again i feel my youth is showing so I will yeild to wiser minds.
    DISCLAIMER: Anything that I post on this forum should not be taken as medical advice. Consult your doctor before starting new diets, supplements, training protocols, and/or if you have any concerns about your health.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by GoHardOrGoHme View Post
    Interesting....well whatever decision you do make Im confident it will be the right one

    Are you thinking on maybe trying to raise it naturally, running another PS and then hitting up the TRT?

    And who knows...maybe TRT is exactly what you need to get everythign back to par...again i feel my youth is showing so I will yeild to wiser minds.
    I think that my test is probably up around 450 by now which is in the lower-mid normal range.

    The idea was to either A get on TRT so I could get on Anavar to help my shoulder out without a surgery but since Var would definitely suppress me it wasn't an option without TRT. I am really trying to avoid a surgery right now.

    The other option the second option you mentioned was another thing I thought about. I could just let everything go back to normal. Hold off on any Var or anything and then do that later and if I want go back to get on TRT after that when I have taken stuff to keep my cholesterol and what not in line.

    I am up in the air here because this is my HPTA and I don't know that I want to be on shots the rest of my life. What if I end up without insurance or whatever. Jobless and no way to get it but my HPTA is screwed from being on TRT for a long time... Going on TRT earlier than you really need to is a big decision. It WOULD allow me to do PH / PS cycles and keep everything I gained. However I am doing a pretty good job with that now. It is just a big decision to make. Yes my shoulder is still a problem and that is the main focus of this thing right now, getting that shoulder squared away. I am just waiting for my pins so I can start my Alflutop.

    Depending on how things go with the recent tests will be how I decide to move forward. If I can basically get started without having to jump through hoops I may. If I need to do a whole lot to get started, I will take that as the man above making my decision for me.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  17. Yeah you def want to keep your HPTA as healthy for as long as possible b/c if anything...you can always just drop the supplements and keep lifting if times get real tough and not need the TRT to maintain yoru progress.

    But you also bring up a good point with the Var...tough situation. In times like this we really just have to let the God sort it out for us. Just rely on him to direct thy path so you can bring him the greatest glory(maybe with a couple of national titles?).

    Who knows...maybe the aflutop will get everything squared away nicely.
    DISCLAIMER: Anything that I post on this forum should not be taken as medical advice. Consult your doctor before starting new diets, supplements, training protocols, and/or if you have any concerns about your health.

  18. It's about to begin...

    Can't go wrong with Epi-Strong
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  19. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    It's about to begin...

    Can't go wrong with Epi-Strong
    I'm all up in it!!

    And I advise everyone reading here to sub to it also. A lot of us have been waiting to see DW run a cycle of anabolics. Now's the opportunity.

    Jump on it!!
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

    "Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High."

  20. Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    I'm all up in it!!

    And I advise everyone reading here to sub to it also. A lot of us have been waiting to see DW run a cycle of anabolics. Now's the opportunity.

    Jump on it!!
    Thanks TG, now I feel even more motivated to rock the fug out of this run, oh the mayhem!!
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  21. DW, I am back

    MrKleen: Looks like amazing stuff going on in here, wealth of info as always and a good 20 minutes of reading just to catch up :P

    Your routine is working wonders for me by the way...weighing 184 right now.

    Diet is wholly cottage cheese, milk, fruit, veggies, chicken breast, rice, eggs, oatmeal. So its clean weight. Pretty stoked, and people at work have been asking for the routine $

  22. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    It's about to begin...

    Can't go wrong with Epi-Strong
    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    I'm all up in it!!

    And I advise everyone reading here to sub to it also. A lot of us have been waiting to see DW run a cycle of anabolics. Now's the opportunity.

    Jump on it!!
    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Thanks TG, now I feel even more motivated to rock the fug out of this run, oh the mayhem!!
    I completely agree with TG here. I can't wait to see what another one of us does making the jump. I know you have done HDrol before but this one should be even more interesting. Very excited.

    Quote Originally Posted by votum View Post
    DW, I am back

    MrKleen: Looks like amazing stuff going on in here, wealth of info as always and a good 20 minutes of reading just to catch up :P

    Your routine is working wonders for me by the way...weighing 184 right now.

    Diet is wholly cottage cheese, milk, fruit, veggies, chicken breast, rice, eggs, oatmeal. So its clean weight. Pretty stoked, and people at work have been asking for the routine $
    Excellent man, you still got the shadows of the abs? I am probably about to start that routing back up with with 10 rep work sets instead of 5-6 reps. My shoulder can't handle that. Then the other part of me thinks I should go with a less intense training protocol.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  23. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    I completely agree with TG here. I can't wait to see what another one of us does making the jump. I know you have done HDrol before but this one should be even more interesting. Very excited.
    Oh yeah. Epi is considerably stronger than H-Drol. Equally as lean. No estro sides. Mildly toxic. Cheaper. Need I say more?
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

    "Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High."

  24. Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    Oh yeah. Epi is considerably stronger than H-Drol. Equally as lean. No estro sides. Mildly toxic. Cheaper. Need I say more?
    Oh I would be very tempted to trade off my HDrol I have for later to try some of this Epi-Strong. This is the Epi that I am interested in right now due to everything I have already heard regarding it's potency and purity. I am a little iffy since I had such a bad experience with the Epistane but will have to wait, this ain't cheap stuff and I am tight on the cash... So I may try it later down the road when I scrounge up more cash.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  25. Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    Oh yeah. Epi is considerably stronger than H-Drol. Equally as lean. No estro sides. Mildly toxic. Cheaper. Need I say more?
    Wow not I'm really excited... can't wait start dosing late this week. I am planing on starting 2 days before my first workout.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug
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