R.I.P. One+ - AnabolicMinds.com

R.I.P. One+

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    R.I.P. One+


    Fellas, as of Jan. 6, 2003, One+, One, 4-Aderm, and Nor-Aderm will all be gone, thanks to the FDA. These products were a revolution in this industry, and they will be sorely missed.

    Once again, they tell us what we can and cannot take. When will it stop??? It's insane!

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    Yeh i seen it. that sucks. I wonder if they will come for the rest of the topicals... Talk to ya
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    Curt, they are certainly trying. The bill in Congress will see to that.

    Everyone needs to visit this site

    http://www.usfa.biz/index.php

    and do their part to help this industry as a whole.
    •   
       

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    Just sent out 2 letters (snail mail) today. Not much more we can do.
    Originally posted by SirSavageX
    Curt, they are certainly trying. The bill in Congress will see to that.

    Everyone needs to visit this site

    http://www.usfa.biz/index.php

    and do their part to help this industry as a whole.
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    Way to GO FDA... pricks.. I am really starting to think more like YJ on that government thing...
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    Yes, just another step forward for your goverment to restrict your rights in this "land of the free"
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    as bigbenn said, not a whole lot we can do. thats what reeks about the entire thing. we all only can stay back and "see" what develops. i dont think the backers of ph use/transdermal has a strong enough voice to change the minds of fda but surely, the people who be effective but this (the users, distributers, ones who just starting to learning about ph in general and choosing between lets say "safer" ph/as and the more heavier stuff) is a number of people not to glance over man. just burns me that with all the intellect people out there (many many on this board) could be effective by some suits and group of people who are judging the distribution of these stuff in the light of the dangers and non-intellect who pursue the uses of ph wrongly. Burns me that the only thing we really can do is write a petition and what not.
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    FDA BASTARDS! Always fuking something up...... I also agree with YJ on the issue. The free country you live in, is not so free after all.

    Atleast we know there is always a way around illegal substances.

    Also, how does this effect being able to buy ph/powder such as 1-test and 4ad????
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    It will not affect powder sales but the bill you guys might pass will... Talk to ya..
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    Im personally tired of hearing about this ****. Everywhere you go there's 20 threads to "fight the PH ban". Its funny to see these big time PH company owners who used to be smart asses to everyone with their arrogance, now they're scrambling around, kissing people's asses so they'll write an e-mail or a letter to save their precious companies. Haha, and its funny to see these same guys registering at board they've never posted at just to start a couple threads to save PHs. I think these people are the only ones who really give a ****.

    Dante just posted over at AR that even steroid users betetr do something about this PH ban, because supplements like protein are next! LMAO! Wtf? How ignorant is this guy, seriously? He'd better come up with something less ignorant to threaten people into sending letters to fight a useless cause. You think the federal goverment really gives a **** what a few hundred people think? Hell no, and I hope no one is nieve enough to think so, because you're only kiding yourselves.

    The moral of this story is, maybe these guys would have a few thousand people backing them if they werent such *******s when their money was rolling in nicely, now in a time of desperation, they want all these people to save their asses. Well I give that one a big hell no.....

    On another note, I found this mindless, rambling post of Dante's from AnabolicReview interesting:

    And yes, this even affects the 'Roid-boys. If this goes, other supplements can soon come under the hammer (Protein,etc). Plus, greater scrutiny will as well be placed on the already illicit Androgens.

    This is his way of "scaring" non PH users into voicing their opinions on the PH ban. I think he just hurt the cause quite significantly by insulting everyones intelligence. I guess we'd better stock up on fish, chicken, steak and milk before they ban it.
    Wow, this gets more entertaining each day.
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    Cool


    Everyone call Dante "Yoda with a dictionary." I made that up and he hates it
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    Hey Big H I think that avatar is advertising.. LOL.. Very funny. Talk to ya..
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    http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...774#post372774


    Wow, everyone read that post and see for yourself what a total arrogant piece of **** he is. Amazing how someone in such a position is more concerned with their self image and being "witty" than getting his precious PHs banned, that tells me a lot.
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    I completely agree w/ YJ about Dante's posts @ AR. He is one arrogant f*ck. His protein being banned next BS was just insulting, however I do agree that if this ph ban goes through that fina could be next, along w/ possibly new supplements that haven't even been made yet. I know Par had a few he was planning to put out that are now f*cked.
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    YJ, sorry man, but the government wants to regulate EVERYTHING, especially in the supplement industry because they don't have the power in that industry that they want. It will not stop with prohormones, and it will not stop with ephedra. Anything could be next. It's a snowball effect, in that if you do not stop it now, it will continue to grow and include other things. If we do not at least try to stop it with prohormones, then there's no telling how far it could go, if the people allow it.

    They don't want you to wipe your ass if you don't have their permission. We are slowly moving toward totalitarianism.

    Also, they would not ban steak, etc, because that industry is regulated by the federal government, at least to some extent, is it not?
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    I dont really want to go over this all again. Everyone's read the AR thread, and it still cracks me up. The claim of banning protein is absolute ignorance and I wont discuss it any further, Dante's already proved his sheer ignorance, who's next? There's no basis behind banning protein, it's not harmful to the body, you can over dose on it, its not a performance enhacing drug, and the list goes on. This is not even a topic worth arguing.

    They should have thought about avoiding the PH ban before making their ads so appealing to teens, because we all know thats what its all about. Im all for anarchy and what not, but you have to give the goverment a little more credit. They're not out to get anyone here, I can see both sides of the PH ban and anyone who can is blind. PHs is abused can be harmful to teens. And I DONT want to hear the "so can alcohol, why isnt it banned?"
    Alchol and tobacco are heavily taxed and bring in a pretty large sum of money for the goverment, to eliminate it is eliminating hundreds of thousands of jobs, not to mention causing a huge downfall in the ecomomy. Revoking Avant Labs license to deal pro hormones is doing what to the economy? Nothing. Pardon my biase towards hating on Avant Labs, I lost respect for the head pimp.

    But this is a dead end street, there's no agreement. I want to make myself clear when I say I am not condoning nor promoting the ban of pro hormones
    Im just sick of these monotonous threads popping up everywhere. These guru's didnt give a **** about the people they sold their products to, just wanted the easy $$$ and thats what got their asses where they're at now
    Blaming the goverment is their last resort.
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    Forgot to mention this.

    Or, they can ban anything in the supplement industry. All they have to do is use the "it's not a regulated industry" argument, coupled with the "it's dangerous, look what it did to these two people" argument, and then you're well on your way to a bill in Congress.

    Regulate, or ban, the government will have its way.
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    Originally posted by SirSavageX
    Forgot to mention this.

    Or, they can ban anything in the supplement industry. All they have to do is use the "it's not a regulated industry" argument, coupled with the "it's dangerous, look what it did to these two people" argument, and then you're well on your way to a bill in Congress.

    Regulate, or ban, the government will have its way.
    Yes it will....so please tell everyone to stop cluttering various boards with pleads to take action against the goverment, its going to go nowhere. The government officials are sefl-serving *******s but even they have limits (banning protein wtf??)
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    Wait, wait... they'll ban straight protein?! Fats too? Does that mean they'll take my precious flax!? Run Barlean's run!

    And good God my carbs! Best stock up on Quaker oats while there's still time...


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    Originally posted by YellowJacket

    Yes it will
    That is, unless you DO something about it.

    Sure, we can sit back and do jack ****, diluding ourselves into believing that silly **** such as banning protein, creatine, or whatever, can never happen. It's absurd, right? Meanwhile, while we have our heads in the sand, the government bans prohormones. Then ephedra. Then...? And it goes on, slowly, over time, until we cannot take anything without their permission.

    When Avant first showed that it was having troubles with the FDA last week, the general consensus from most was that it was nothing, it was just a labeling issue, and it would blow over. Some even claimed it to be a scare tactic for increased sales. Well, guess what? Uncle Sam is taking them away. Don't think for a second this can't happen to anything that they deem "dangerous".

    "Protein is dangerous in high quantities, and can cause kidney damage," that is what my exercise science professor said in front of my class. This is a DOCTOR OF EXERCISE SCIENCE, for ****'s sakes! All it takes is a few testimonies from "experts" like him, and protein will be in trouble. If such thoughts as "oh no, it's not regulated by the FDA" and/or "oh no, it can cause kidney damage" get in the ****in' ignorant public's mind, the politicians will "protect them", whatever the cost.

    Instead of stopping the snowflake from becoming a snowball, we stick our heads in the sand, saying "no, it cannot happen". Then, we bitch and moan about it, but we have no right to, because we did not do what we could to stop it in the beginning.

    A tsunami starts off as a gentle wave. All things follow this pattern, as is plainly evident throughout history.
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    Dante was refering to a powdered protein supplement but then he eluded or Dio eluded to restricting total protein intake or some ****, hell I dont know, I wasnt paying much attention. It was like being 15 and sitting there with your 5 year old siter while your mom explained how Santa was real. You know its bull**** but its so absurb you dont want to argue so you just ignore it.
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    Well my advice to you is switch universities. Until there is proof (which there isnt yet, and they will no uncover) that protein is dangerous then it wont happen,of course if somehow it does, I guess there will be an over population of animals because we wont be allowed to eat meat due to its high protein content.

    The point is.....send all the letters you like, the goverment doesnt even read them. Its like voting. Why the hell would someone waste their time voting. Do you think your vote counts?? How many electorial races have been won by 1 vote? Never. Therefore your vote doesnt count. The government will do what it wishes. I understand being pissed and sending some letters, I dont want them to have the attitude that "well ****, they didnt say anything about bannin PH, we'll see if we can ban creatine too"
    These people are human, a lot of them probably even work out, and just as many probably use whey protein post workout. Im not fond of the scare tactic of protein banning, whoever thought of that needs their ass kicked, but I think the amount of laughter is enough to embarrass them.

    And God I never thought Id say this, and I know Ill regret it but I dont think you give politicians and the goverment enough credit on intelligence. Everyone of these people have degrees. They can often times think for themselves. While I hate each and everyone of them, even they know protein is as safe as no tears shampoo.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket

    The point is.....send all the letters you like, the goverment doesnt even read them. Its like voting. Why the hell would someone waste their time voting.... These people are human, a lot of them probably even work out, and just as many probably use whey protein post workout...
    And God I never thought Id say this, and I know Ill regret it but I dont think you give politicians and the goverment enough credit on intelligence. Everyone of these people have degrees. They can often times think for themselves.
    Yes the protien banning thread is silly, but just to be safe I have a freezer full of beef in the basement. Just in case someone checks I have all the meat covered up with lima beans!

    On the issue of the government however, I have found that most representatives and senators are exactly as YJ describes them above. Most of them will vote for the PH bill, however, because they don't have the time to understand what it means.

    I believe that one of the worst things we can do for ourselves is think that whatever we do won't matter. I don't think that is a sentiment that would get us very far in our training goals so why would we carry that into our daily life? I have failed a 475 bench over a dozen times, but that does not mean I'm going to not try my next workout. If I try, I might drop it and even hurt myself in the process. I might push it up as well. If I don't do anything, that weight is not moving at all, ever.

    For most politicians, the best thing you can do for them is not care. It takes the pressure off from them. They do have one overriding common interest - saving their own asses.

    If you want to get their attention, call them. I even have all my representatives on my speed dial for my cell phone and I don't hesitate to let them know what I think. Sometimes I even get to speak to the elected officials themselves by visiting their offices. I let them know that I'm paying attention to what they do. If there is some bill or vote coming up that I feel strongly about, I am also sure to try to educate them as best I can. I rarely say that if you vote this way, I won't vote for you the next election, but I do point out that aggregate patterns to infulence my vote and any donations I make to campaigns. To me, the PH bill is in the aggregate "personal liberty" category.

    It does not always work, but I'll be damned if I'm going to sit here watch them spend my money and take my votes without doing something about it. Sometimes that weight does move.

    Want to raise attention about this issue? I see that many people here are decent about writing their views, send some letters to the editors of your largest papers. Write a story for the local community paper. Call a television station for a story about this on the news. You can bet that your local politicition or their staff is paying attention to what is getting said here. Checking around the gym you might even find some people working out there who work for a paper and have the proper insights to write a favorable piece on the subject. Make these people think that there is something going on here and at the same time protraying a positive image about your life choices to the public at large.

    While I share YJ's fustration at our crooked system and money/power being more important than the people politicians supposedly serve, I'm not going to let one more of the rights of a free society disappear without doing something about it - win or lose.

    Jorta

    Oh, for some tips on working with your congressional representatives, check out this site. It also links to pages where you can get the office phone numbers of your representatives and senators.

    Electronic Frontier Foundation
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    Yep, they're still going on and on about it over at Dante's site, they keep getting side tracked with slamming me, its amazing how people are so desperate for attention and dramatic that they take everything said on here personally. Dante often confuses arrogance with ignorance and refuses to see anyone's point thats not his own.

    http://magazine.mindandmuscle.net/main.php?pageID=97

    Theres the thread if anyones interested, despite flaming me, theres actually some good info in it from the various guru's. But dont let any of them fool you, protein is in no way in consideration of being abolished or even regulated to the general population. Thats communism. And what they're doing with PHs right now is the beginning of communsim. I can see where protein is thrown in the mix for being banned, but no way is it likely in any of our lifetimes. It was an example and a plead that was blown WAY up, and way over dramatized.

    Anyways, me attacking him makes me no better than him and I refuse to stoop to his level so heres the link to bb.com and the FDA ban thread if anyone hasnt seen it:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=76230

    And on a side note, make sure when debating you agree with everyone, dont even attempt to have your own opinion or disagree, people will take it personally and ramble off topic about your lack of character. Classic example of immaturity.
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    You are incredible!    How true !!

     

    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Dante was refering to a powdered protein supplement but then he eluded or Dio eluded to restricting total protein intake or some ****, hell I dont know, I wasnt paying much attention. It was like being 15 and sitting there with your 5 year old siter while your mom explained how Santa was real. You know its bull**** but its so absurb you dont want to argue so you just ignore it.
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    If they take away the protein powder, we will jsut have to eat more steak instead!!  WHAT A ****ING TRAGEDY IN LIFE!!!!!!!!!!

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    Yea no ****, wonder if they plan on regulating our grocery store lists too??
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    YJ, Your posts are like a breath of fresh air. I am sick and tired of the monotonous crap being spewed out by those 2 faced hypocrites. Thanks for the backup over at bb.com. Felt like old times. I hate to see prohormones being pulled, but we will survive.
    Big H, thanks for the backup as well.
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    I hate to see them go as well.....I feel like the Anti-PH...


    But some people are in this battle for all the wrong reasons.
  30. Dio
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Dante was refering to a powdered protein supplement but then he eluded or Dio eluded to restricting total protein intake or some ****, hell I dont know, I wasnt paying much attention. It was like being 15 and sitting there with your 5 year old siter while your mom explained how Santa was real. You know its bull**** but its so absurb you dont want to argue so you just ignore it.
    I explained this point quite clearly. The NCAA has restrictions on the supplements their athletes are allowed to use. I posted a link to the site. I could not have made this any more clear.

    You continually hang on the protein point and refuse to see the big picture. The same people who ACHIEVED the restrictions in the NCAA are the ones pushing for the ban now. And it will not stop with prohormones.

    I'm completely baffled at all the negative backlash against the efforts to stop this bill. You should all want to stop it for the best reason of all: self interest. If it passes we will all lose something.

    And this "I'll just go to the darkside" is not an answer for everyone. Some will,some won't and some will get busted for something they were doing legally a year ago.

    As far as all the personal attacks go, I wish all this bull**** would stop. But i think there might be too much water under the bridge.

    Flame away.
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    No ones going to flame you bro.....

    I just done like the scare tactics and once called out on it, he wouldnt admit thats what it was when it was quite obvious. And then to hold a debate with him and trying to defend myself from being bashed was like sucking tit through a sweater.....but I guess Im not "witty" enough to do both at the same time Its me and the common folk against Dante's whole "crew" and you guys jump my **** for not seeing eye to eye.

    Anyways to the big picture.... The ban date has been set, no matter how many letters are written, its not going to change, I apologize for not understanding politics or being 'head-pimp of a supplement industry, but this is obviously over with.

    Once again, the governing body of the NCAA doesnt govern the US. I see the link, but still, the United States government is a much bigger fish.

    I honestly dont know what else to say. The day protein is banned is the day anarchy will arise.
  32. Dio
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    I think each "crew" has gotten involved plenty in the arguments and IIRC you inserted yourself into the argument. Dante was trying to give the issue a sense of urgency; the protein issue got way overblown and took on too much prominence in the discussion.

    I'll say again, that I'm surprised to see you give up on the cause so easily. You struck me as someone who would fight. It may be over, it might not be, but either way I want to fight so I can buy what I want.

    The NCAA example is used to show what influence the group has already been able to peddle. Before it happened you might have thought it was ridiculous for them to tell athletes how much protein they could take in or not allow creatine. Yet it happened. Easily. Remember vitamins were almost controlled for the entire country. It took a huge media effort involving hollywoods top stars to stop it and it was close for a while.

    As I said i the other thread -- there really is no point in arguing this. I just wanted to clarify the point and respond to that santa bull****...
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    Originally posted by Dio
    I think each "crew" has gotten involved plenty in the arguments and IIRC you inserted yourself into the argument. Dante was trying to give the issue a sense of urgency; the protein issue got way overblown and took on too much prominence in the discussion.
    I am 1 person. I am a nobody. What would you like me to do? Write the government a letter like everyone else? Or do you want me to get in my tree stand and begin picking them off? I hate to be a smartass, but Ive been driven to this point. Everyone tries to play me off as someone who just flames and doesnt mind my business and thats cool. People like Dante and his arrogance make me just want to sit back and watch this all crumble. I figured you would cling to his side since he obviously has clout I do not, and thats cool too. We're all used to it, Im used to it. I inserted my self simply to reassure everyone of the mindless ploy to get everyone to write the goverment, So I am writing the goverment, and telling them to leave protein alone. You guys do your thing, Ive said 100 times now, I am NOT for the banning of pro hormones!

    As for the Santa comment, I was just bringing some comic relief to a incredibly worthless argument.
  34. Dio
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    People like Dante and his arrogance make me just want to sit back and watch this all crumble. I figured you would cling to his side since he obviously has clout I do not, and thats cool too. We're all used to it, Im used to it.
    I don't "cling" to Dante; I support his arguments. I do this because I tend to agree with him on most things and because I have a lot of respect for him. You don't seem to understand this, but then again you don't seem to understand a lot of things lately.

    Again with the "we" bull****. Who's we? Who are these faceless people who have so many opinions about me?

    The argument was far from worthless. I don't know how else to explain it to you. Your mind is closed.
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    Oh and you were the advocate of not getting personal and taking this off topic? You again attempt to trash me and for you? Because I dont agree with you and Dante? **** that man, thats lame as hell. Not everyone will agree with you in life man, might as well face that now. How many times have I said "i do not agree with the banning of pro hormones"? What else do you want from me Dio....would you like me to write a letter?

    I understand a lot of things, you need to understand that people have different opinions and beliefs, thats what makes the world go 'round. Not EVERYONE is like you. I apologize. And you've already made it clear you want nothing to do with this board

    Sometimes it seems as if the BDC board was created just so it's members could insult Layne and now Dante. While I enjoy the company of many members there, I want no part of that behaviour.


    And you preach against the "ganging up".....

    BDC clique. The people who left were already familiar with each other and for a while this group dominated the board. If you disagreed with one, all of them ganged up on you


    You were so quick to Dantes rescue at AR, but where are you at over there taking up for me in the flaming threads about me? Oh I know! You're right along with them. So its obvious you have no respect for me or this board. You **** talk it, but have you really been here long enough to accumulate an opinion? Exactly.
  36. Dio
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    Oh and you were the advocate of not getting personal and taking this off topic? You again attempt to trash me and for you?
    That ended with your cling comment. You've taken a few jabs in this discussion. I ignored them but that last one, was one too many.

    My comments are directed around your implication that i support dante because of some clout that he has. That's insulting and inaccurate. I'm not going to beat the other argument to death again.

    I don't expect everyone to agree with me or be like me. I do however, expect them to try to remain obective when presented with the facts.

    As far as what I would like: yes i would like to see you and everyone else on this board write a letter. It's the least we can all do. This is something that most of us are passionate about and we should be willing to defend what we like, regardless of the odds. However, everyone is obviously free to do what they want.
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    Maybe you should read the thread above, read my edit. You **** talk this board, then you want something in return?

    Id guess about 75% of this board has taken part in the letter writing. I encourage them too. Im not fond of the goverment for many reasons and this is another communist restriction. Its frustrating to me, because myself and all you guys are helpless, sure I can write a letter, but will anyone even read it? Again, pardon my ignorance on politics, but I doubt they're even being read or taken into account.
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    First, understand that I am not 'anti prohormone, anti steriod' so much as I am 'anti dip**** advertising'. That said, I'd much rather obtain prohormones/steroids if and when I ever use them, illegally if that would mean less idiots read and are suckered in by irresponsible advertising from supplement companies, the majority of which ARE going about their business in an unprofessional and often misleading way. It's not hard to understand why uninformed feel the need to protect the uninformed, not just for reasons of job security in a political position. Prohormones will be banned, and not because of attitudes of people like myself or YJ. I'm quite surprised that Dante got so upset with him for being pragmatic. This 'surprised that you won't stand up and fight' attitude only works for common sense arguments. Ideals/wishes of a distinct minority are hardly applicable in most cases. Pick your fights and if this is one, fine, if you feel the need to 'go down swinging' what have you, but be ****ing realistic and have realistic expectations, please. To reiterate: The problem is not Congress. The problem is misadvertising, overadvertising, over-reaching and greed of supplement companies which have brought powerful drugs via a legal loophole into the hands of thousands more idiots than intellectuals. More exposure = greater number of morons = more problems = more attention etc etc... the problem is easy to view, as is the outcome. Not sure why people get so personal, or why government etc is blamed so heavily. Just an opinion though, take it as you will.
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    Nice post Biggin, some good points there.

    If there are sides here then each one has a very valid point. I tend to play devil's advocate in most discssions I get into, so I'm usually fairly Swiss about things I think. I agree with YJ that our efforts are futile I'm sure, but I agree with Dio that the cause is easily worth the effort (which I have done, letters and e-mails). So I say live and let live folks. Our trusty goverment will figure it out for us in the end, yippee!
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Maybe you should read the thread above, read my edit. You **** talk this board, then you want something in return?

    sure I can write a letter, but will anyone even read it? Again, pardon my ignorance on politics, but I doubt they're even being read or taken into account.
    I'm not asking for this for me. This is something that affects everyone -- I don't know how else to try to explain this.

    The letters actually DO make a difference. Politicians are concerned with their popularity first and everything else second. They need to be shown that there's a vocal group against this decision. That type of thing is one of the few ways people can make a difference.
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