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    can someone give me a solid list of phs that won't aggrevate gyno..and is there anyway to avoid aggrevating gyno with a product like pp or sd?

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    Read through the first post. I believe that all of the PHs that are known to aggravate gyno were listed as so.
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
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    Schuman, sounds like the two you mentioned would be two of the most likely candidates to aggravate an existing gyno condition, and then you have the risk of potential delayed gyno.
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    I heard of Fem Bots, but not FED Bots.
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    Max LMG clones too...I'm not sure about any others though...
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
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    Quote Originally Posted by stxnas View Post
    Read through the first post. I believe that all of the PHs that are known to aggravate gyno were listed as so.
    I think breathing oxygen for sustenance has been shown to aggrevate gyno.

    I dunno, though. I've read so many posts about product X aggrevating someone's gyno, it aggrevated MY gyno.
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    I think a lot of guys put on a little fat during a bulking cycle and think they have started developing gyno...one of the first places a man's body deposits fat is...on the chest area! Unfortunately, the other area is the abdominals

    The mass hysteria is understandable and gyno is definitely not something to take lightly though.

    On a related note, a very well known Organic Chemist has recently posted that there are very few actual progestins are currently on the market. Please note that he still said that even if they aren't really progestins that they may still have progestational activity (albeit slight). He was speaking in reference to dienelone (estra-4,9-dien-3,17-dione) and Propadrol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    sex hormone activity has nothing to do with DSHEA compliance. DSHEA compliance is an issue having to do with being found in food or other things

    you are thinking DEA issue. that is more complicated. there is an exemption for progestins on there but its not so simple

    besides, most of these componunds people are calling progestins are not really progestins. they share vague chemical similarity with known pharmaceutical progestins and maybe have slight progestational activity but in my expert opinion would NOT fall into the category of progestin. they would be considered in the androgen class.

    case in point would be estra-4,9-dien-3,17-dione
    In all honesty, nobody knows what some of these supps are though. I came across the above info while posting over at bb.com about Propadrol:

    Quote Originally Posted by StxNas View Post
    ...There appears to be some smoke and mirrors at play with this product. From the research that I have done the nomenclature doesn't quite make sense. I believe it would have to be 13-ethyl, not 12-ethyl, to be a progestin...this is contradicted by the "gona" nomenclaute though, because gona (gonane) is a class of progestins

    Up until now I had almost convinced myself that Propadrol was nothing more than a low dose Max LMG with 3-OHAT.
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
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    The propadrol "whatever it is" actually is missing an oxygen at carbon 17. It is a very obscure compound.
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    yeah, I had bought some propadrol and in the end had second thoughts and traded it off
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    The propadrol "whatever it is" actually is missing an oxygen at carbon 17. It is a very obscure compound.
    What about the 12-ethyl as opposed to the 13-ethyl? Does that make any sense to you?

    FWIR progestins have their longest substituent group at the C-13 (or C-10), not C-12...the gona nomenclature lead me to believe that this is a progestin, but I'm admittedly very green with this sort of talk and organic chem in general.
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
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    My interest is piqued
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    Quote Originally Posted by stxnas View Post
    What about the 12-ethyl as opposed to the 13-ethyl? Does that make any sense to you?

    FWIR progestins have their longest substituent group at the C-13 (or C-10), not C-12...the gona nomenclature lead me to believe that this is a progestin, but I'm admittedly very green with this sort of talk and organic chem in general.
    There's two ways to name a chemical: IUPAC and "I have a life and a finite amount of ink"

    A gonane (aka sterane) is merely the most basic 17 carbon steroid skeleton; whereas, an androgen has two methyls making it a 19 carbon structure.

    Essentially, this a is gonane with an ether at 3 and an alkyl at 12. I don't think it is quite a progestin. To be honest, I'm not really sure what it is. Like I said, it doesn't have an oxygen at 17, which is pretty useful when trying to bind to the androgen receptor. Like I said, this is a rather obscure compound.
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    Thanks. I've been waiting all day for you to post back about this. I know just enough to understand, but not enough to make heads or tails of this. I didn't understand/know that it could be a gonane and not a progestin.

    ...and I had to laugh at the IUPAC comment. I'm getting all too familiar with both types of nomenclature
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
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    Quote Originally Posted by stxnas View Post
    Thanks. I've been waiting all day for you to post back about this. I know just enough to understand, but not enough to make heads or tails of this. I didn't understand/know that it could be a gonane and not a progestin.

    ...and I had to laugh at the IUPAC comment. I'm getting all too familiar with both types of nomenclature
    IUPAC for gonane is 1,2-cyclopentanoperhydrophenanthre ne.

    As you can see, the system kinda gets out of whack when dealing with larger molecules. That's when people say "**** it" and start making up names.
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    Damn, that's obnoxious. We've just finished alcohols and spiros and are currently working on alkenes and some new mechanisms.
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
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    looks like testanate 50 will work very well then!
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    Bump

    Really good thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew76 View Post
    Bump

    Really good thread.
    Agreed! Interesting...
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    Hey guys any new info on Propadrol? Gains? sides? I was thinking of pulsing it with some Havoc, you know Methyl with a non Methyl, either that or Havoc with some Furaguno for a 6 week cycle, and some Cycle support on off days, and Post cycle support as my PCT. Any thoughts, and/or recommendations?

    I'm out.
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    Hey guys, im kinda new to prohormones and am trying to research and read as many threads as possible. Ive been looking at a lot of prohormone products and some people say one is great and others hate it. I just want to know what product is good for good gains and very low side effects? I read the profiles and was just wondering what product would be good for me. I dont need to cut body fat, im 9.4%, but i wana put on 6-7 pounds of lean muscle and keep it on. Any suggestions??
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    hey sinner u should do a write up on methyl XT(methyl 1 alpha) there doesnt seem to be a whole lot of information out there but I always read that a percentage of it converts to
    m1t in the body so it was always intriguing to me.
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    cool
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    cool thread i meant
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    thanks for the info btw
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    niiiiice!!! when did this get stickied??? congrats! it needed to be there!
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    Yeah I agree about the 1,4 AD BOLD it sucks and was a total waste of money....
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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to thesinner again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by livindreamz View Post
    Yeah I agree about the 1,4 AD BOLD it sucks and was a total waste of money....
    IMO the compound has promise but its severely under dosed. You should be taking at least 600mg (preferably 1000mg) for at least 4-6 weeks(preferably 6-8) given the type of compound this converts too.

    Thats why I jumped all over it when it was in bulk at NP. Sad thing is the company wont bump up the dose anytime soon cause people keep buying it as it is now and they know theyll make more money this way...... we need another bulk offering of this compound baaaaaad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poopypants View Post
    IMO the compound has promise but its severely under dosed. You should be taking at least 600mg (preferably 1000mg) for at least 4-6 weeks(preferably 6-8) given the type of compound this converts too.

    Thats why I jumped all over it when it was in bulk at NP. Sad thing is the company wont bump up the dose anytime soon cause people keep buying it as it is now and they know theyll make more money this way...... we need another bulk offering of this compound baaaaaad.
    It's also not market feasible to sell it properly dosed. At a bulk price, we saw it at $1.50 per gram. An 8 week cycle would cost you $85 (from the bulk price), and that's minus packaging costs.
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    Bump. I added info on 3-AD. When Ergopharm's 1-AD comes out, I'll be sure to add that as well.
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    1-AD -> 1-Test


    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Bump. I added info on 3-AD. When Ergopharm's 1-AD comes out, I'll be sure to add that as well.
    Patrick Arnold says their new 1-AD is a PH to 1-Test
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    you could call DHEA a prohormone to test, so just saying that means nothing. its all about what % converts to it, and what else it may get converted to at the same time.

    That said, I can't imagine PA putting out anything that didn't work well.
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    The old 1-AD converted into 1-Test. I was kinda hoping the newer one to be something else. We will see, I guess.
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    subbed for future ref.
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    bump for info added about methyl xt, there seems to be some confusion about what it is. From what I have found it seems to be a precursor to M1T, but what do I know. Most feedback I have read indicates great strength gains but minimal size.
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    Methyl XT is methylated 1-AD. The methylation seemed to change the compound quite a bit which is typically true of any compund getting methylated. I've seen the same - incredible strength gains with minimal mass. The compounds that a great for strength but don't pack on mass usually work best for cutting.
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    Very nice work Z! I use your chart for reference all the time now.

    Question: What if you were to put straight, injectable Testosterone on the chart as a baseline reference? How does test stand up to the designers in terms of pros and cons? For instance, lower liver toxicity but illegal without an Rx. Cheaper, but requires IM injection. I'm sure there's other issues I'm not thinking of right now. Just a thought...
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpk View Post
    Very nice work Z! I use your chart for reference all the time now.

    Question: What if you were to put straight, injectable Testosterone on the chart as a baseline reference? How does test stand up to the designers in terms of pros and cons? For instance, lower liver toxicity but illegal without an Rx. Cheaper, but requires IM injection. I'm sure there's other issues I'm not thinking of right now. Just a thought...
    Cheaper???
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    Wow with Test it's tough to really compare it to oral methyls. Typically the standard for orals is methyl-test which has slightly different properties. But I'm sure it's been said numerous times somewhere nothing really can compare to regular test, especially as a base.
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    Has anybody tried EpioTren by Intense Nutraceuticals. It has the following blend:
    19-Norandrosta-4, 9-diene-3,17-dione and
    2a, 3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androsta-17b-ol.

    I recognize the Epi, does anybody recognize the first Nomenclature? couldn't find it on the 1st page.

    NMN
  

  
 

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