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  1. Advanced Member
    bombBoogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOYFORDOLET View Post
    Where does ESTs Methyl XT fit into this? Ive heard it is similar to M1T, but I haven't really found anything conclusive about it.
    I think it was Methyl-XT = M1A

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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    see profile for M-TRN. It is a 'clone' of ALRI's Methoxy TRN
    It seems that the feedback on Trenadrol is quite different than that of M-TRN. I think there is some debate over what it really is. I have no experience with either, just going by what seems to be the general concensus.
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    yes, however, they are an attempt at the same thing.
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    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOYFORDOLET View Post
    Where does ESTs Methyl XT fit into this? Ive heard it is similar to M1T, but I haven't really found anything conclusive about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by bombBoogie View Post
    I think it was Methyl-XT = M1A

    Methyl XT?

    Quote Originally Posted by slow-mun View Post
    Its methylated 1-AD. It doesn't act like either Methyl 1-T, 1-T, or 1-AD in its effects(Its a Methyl 1-A clone with a few additives). Honestly, this is a great compound for strength gains(to the point where you try and be a bit careful while lifting, so you won't injure yourself). Weight gains are marginal, with the highest repoted gains being 12lbs by a newb(most experienced users net around 5-7lbs). I'm actually involved with EST, so while I haven't ran this one, I'm more than a little familiar with it. Most users experience sides comparable to Pheraplex, but there have been a few that have said it was worse than superdrol for them.
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
  5. New Member
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    So anyone heard of anabolic formulations? Interesting product with the active from halodrol and a tren prohormone.
    Anyone?
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    for info on the tren prohormone, check out the info on finigenX as this is the same ingredient.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    for info on the tren prohormone, check out the info on finigenX as this is the same ingredient.
    Familiar with it, curious as to the companys rep? I am going to run halodrol or clone (don't think its even available) and ?
    My three choices
    Havoc
    furaza
    ?
    For the record, my only bad experience was with a progestin, Methyl 1P
  8. New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cromwell View Post
    Familiar with it, curious as to the companys rep? I am going to run halodrol or clone (don't think its even available) and ?
    My three choices
    Havoc
    furaza
    ?
    For the record, my only bad experience was with a progestin, Methyl 1P
    I forgot propadrol, also considered
  9. New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    for info on the tren prohormone, check out the info on finigenX as this is the same ingredient.
    Awesome sticky btw
  10. Banned
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    Jay Edit: We don't provide sources or help those get around the legal system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cromwell View Post
    Familiar with it, curious as to the companys rep? I am going to run halodrol or clone (don't think its even available) and ?
    My three choices
    Havoc
    furaza
    ?
    For the record, my only bad experience was with a progestin, Methyl 1P
    havoc has worked well enough so far, that I am not going to complicate things by adding anything. I will save that for next year
  12. Advanced Member
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    Good work!!!

    Please, when you can, edit first post and add a line in any PH description, saying if that PH is a "dry" or a "wet" PH, and if is a precursor of a "Class I" or "Class II" steroid.

    That make you post PERFECT and very, very useful !!!

    Thanks for the post.
  13. Advanced Member
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    I've just found that on the Net with info that would be interesting to ad to this PH profiles:

    The difference between "wet" and "dry" steroids/phs is water retention. Water retention is caused by estrogen through aromatase.

    Wikipedia: Aromatase is an enzyme of the cytochrome P450 superfamily (EC 1.14.14.1), whose function is to aromatize androgens (that is, to selectively increase their aromaticity), producing estrogens. As such, it is an important factor in sexual development.

    Effectively: Aromatase is when excess testosterone converts to estrogen.

    WET:
    M1,4ADD
    Phera
    M1T (and subsequent legal variants/clones)
    *Superdrol

    DRY:
    Bold
    Epithios
    Tren
    *Superdrol
    Halodrol
    Winztrol
    Furazadrol
    Prop

    STRENGTH:
    Tren
    Superdrol
    M1T(and legal clones)
    Phera
    M14ADD

    On the strength category there are probably more, but from what I hear those are the biggies.

    Prohormone Classification

    Steroids are classified under 2 categories. Class I has a strong binding to the androgen receptor. Class II does not bind to the androgen receptors, rather it works through other means in the body.

    Simply put:
    Class I = binds to androgen receptor
    Class II = does not.

    These prohormones classifications are based on thier steroid counterparts. If there are any revisions needed PLEASE message me.
    Class I
    Boldenone based phs - 1,4AD & Bold
    Trenbolone based phs - Trenadrol & Trenaplex
    Testosterone based phs - Methyl 1 Testosterone
    Mepitiostane (Thioderon) based phs - Epithio & Clones (Havoc/Epistane/so on so forth)

    Class II
    Masteron (Dromostanolone) based phs - Superdrol & Clones
    Oral Turinabol (Dehydrochlormethyltestosteron e) based phs - Halodrol & Clones
    Dianabol (methandrostenolone) based phs - M1,4ADD etc
    Winstrol (stanozolol) based phs - Winztrol, Orastan-A, Furaguno, etc
    Furazabol (miotolan) based phs - Furazadrol etc
    Propadrol
    Pheraplex & Clones
    4-AD

    Not Prohormones...
    AMS's products - test boosters
    Testabolan - ecdysterone
    Mass Tabs - test boosters
    Superdrol NG - Prasterone = DHEA, Methyl Xanthine = Caffine, Aprodine HCL = Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride, ATD - test booster/aromatase inhibitor

    If you plan on stacking two prohormones at the same time, the best combinations are class I mixed with a class II. For example SD/Bold, Halo/Tren, M1T/Prop, and so on..

    Here's why, effectively when you take a class 1/class 1 stack, you're theoretically limiting your body's ability to suck up the little steroid molecules you're pumping into it. Think of it like a burger joint parking lot at lunchtime. There are no parking spots available, and you're stuck lying in wait for a spot to open up. It's the same situation for a dual class 1 stack.

    However, with a class 1/class 2 combination while one pro hormone floats around binding to the androgen receptor, the other little guy is busy attaching itself to other parts of the body to encourage growth.
    http://www.discountanabolics.com/for...ead.php?t=7766
  14. Advanced Member
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    Adding that info to the original list:

    Methoxy-TST
    Innovator: Bioscience Technologies
    Nomenclature: 17b-methoxytrienosterone
    Pill size: 2mg
    Dosages: The label recommends 2-6mg daily, but many users report only noticing effects when dosed at 8-12mg.
    Side effects: Low liver toxicity. Some users say this is a libido killer, yet others say the exact opposite. Other users report sides of thinning hair/hair loss.
    Reputation: Seemingly underdosed, methoxy-TST could be considered an underrated designer, as many users have reported some substantial gains with higher dosages.


    Epistane/Havoc/Hemaguno
    Innovators: IBE, RPN, Spectra Force
    Nomenclature: 2a-3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
    Pill Size: 10mg or 12.5mg depending on what brand you use
    Dosages: 20-50mg
    AAS Equivalent: Mepitiostane (Thioderon)
    DRY, Class-I
    Side Effects: Milder on liver and lipid levels than other methyls. Known to cause lower back and calf pumps.
    Reputation: There has had some spectroscopy and compound identification issues with these products, but from personal experience with it, is still a solid product. Many users have taken this compound as a solo run for gynecomastia reduction due to it's SERM-like and anti-aromatase properties. It is also a popular compound for use with the 'pulse method' of taking orals. Users can expect to see significant gains in both strength and mass.


    Pheraplex:
    Innovator: Designer Supplements
    Nomenclature: 17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol
    Pill Size: 10mg
    Dosages: 10-40mg
    AAS Equivalent: Desoxymethyltestosterone/DMT (Madol)
    WET, Class-I
    Side Effects: liver toxicity, bad lipid profile, lower back and calf pumps, some users report aggrevation of gynecomastia with this compound.
    Reputation: Solid product for bulking. Wet gains. It is a sometimes used to jumpstart an injectable cycle. This is the less androgenic isomer in the Ergomax LMG matrix.


    Ergomax LMG
    Innovator: ALRI
    Nomenclature: 17-methyl-delta-2-etioallocholane & 17-methyl-delta-3-etioallocholane
    Pill Size: 10mg
    Dosages: 10-40mg
    Side effects: liver toxicity, bad lipid profiles, lower back and calf pumps, may aggrevate gynecomastia.
    Reputation: Again pretty solid for bulking. Users can expect similar gains as with pheraplex.


    Superdrol:
    Innovator: Designer Supplements
    Nomenclature: 2a, 17a-dimethyl-17-hydroxy-5a-etiocholan -3-one
    Pill size: 10mg
    Dosages: 10-30mg
    AAS Equivalent: Masteron (Dromostanolone)
    Class-II
    Side Effects: liver toxicity, bad lipid profiles, hypoglycemia lower back and calf pumps, some users report agrivation of gynecomastia with this compound. From personal experience, it gives me a wicked rebound, that causes some flare-up.
    Reputation: Side effects vary from mild to extremely harsh, so use caution if planning your first run. Excellent dry gains. Great for bulking or cutting. Explosive strength gains.
    This is a methylated form of Drostanolone (Masteron)


    Methoxy-TRN
    Innovator: ALRI
    Nomenclature: 17b-Methoxy-Trienbolone
    Pill size: 1.5mg
    Dosages: 1.5-6mg
    Side effects: Affects libido (some positively some negatively), can aggrevate gynecomastia. May cause thinning hair/ hair loss. Also another progestin.
    Reputation: This guy is a real hit or miss. Some users loved the stuff, while others did not notice anything from it. From personal experience, I've noticed increases in strength as well as decreases in bodyfat.


    Halodrol-50
    Innovator: Gaspari Nutrition
    Nomenclature: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-1,4-diene-3,17 diol
    Pill Size: 50mg
    Dosages: 25-75mg
    AAS Equivalent: Turinabol
    DRY, Class-II
    Side effects: Heptatoxicity, lower back/calf pumps
    Reputation: Milder than superdrol or pheraplex. Modest gains in mass and strength. Most users take this as part of a cutting cycle.
    This is a prosteroid of Turinabol.

    Prostanozol/ Orastan-E
    Innovators: ALRI, Gaspari Nutrition
    Nomenclature: [3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol
    Pill size: 25mg
    Dosages: 50-150mg (Although it is not uncommon to go much higher than this)
    Side effects: very few sides. Some users report thinning hair/hair loss.
    Reputation: Possibly the most mild of the designers, this compound is rarely run standalone. It is often stacked with a methyl compound for a lean bulk or cut. Very mild, yet easily maintained gains.
    This is a de-alkylated derivative of Stanozol (winstrol).


    Finigenix Magnum
    Innovators: PharmagenX
    Nomenclature: Estra-4, 9-diene-3, 17-dione
    Dosages: 50-75mg
    Side effects: aggrevation of gynecomastia. This is a progestin (it can convert to trenbolone). Expect tren-like sides.
    Reputation: Though there hasn't been much logged on this bad boy, those who've used it have liked it. This is a prohormone to Tren.

    Propadrol:
    Innovator: EST Nutrition
    Nomenclures: 12-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-diene &
    6-17 dihydroxyetiocholone-3-ol proponate
    Dosages: 1-2 caps daily
    Side effects: low side effects
    DRY, Class-II
    Reputation: User's who've taken it have reported great decreases in bodyfat, while increasing musclemass and strength. Not much data is present on this compound within this forum. NOTE: this is does not contain the same compound as Max LMG. They are close, but no cigar.


    Max LMG
    Innovator: ALRI
    Nomenclature: 13-ethyl-3methoxygona-2, 5(10)-dien-17-one
    Pill size: 25mg
    Dosages: 25-135mg daily
    Side effects: Can easily aggrevate gynecomastia. May be a libido killer. This is another progestin.
    Reputation: A bulking compound through and through. Users can expect great recovery, and soaking WET gains.

    M-1,4ADD
    Innovator: unknown
    Nomenclature: 17a-methyl-1,4-Androstadiene-3,17diol
    Dosages: 30-90mg daily
    AAS Equivalent: Dianabol (methandrostenolone)
    WET, Class-II
    Side effects: heptatoxicity, slight possibility to aggrevate gyno
    Reputation: Great for a bulk. Somewhat wet gains, and decent strength gains. This is a prohormone of Dianabol. However, since dianabol and Boldenone are so very similar, it is believed that the actions of this prohormone are more similar to boldenone than to dianabol (methylboldenone).

    1,4 AD
    Innovator: Molecular Nutrition
    Dosages: 300-600mg
    Nomenclature: 1,4-Androstadiene-3,17-dione
    Side effects: Mild
    AAS Equivalent: Boldenone
    DRY, Class-I
    Reputation: Very weak and not very cost-efficient at the moment. This compound is often stacked with a methyl to potentiate and accelerate gains. Cycles are usually run at a MINIMUM of 4 weeks as this one takes a few weeks to 'kick in'. Slow, steady, and easily maintainable gains. This is a prohormone of Boldenone.

    Promagnon-25
    Innovator: Peak Performance Labs
    Dosages: 25-75mg
    Nomenclature:4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene-3,17b-diol
    AAS Equivalent: Clostebol
    Side effects: The usual sides associated with methylated compounds (heptatoxicity, lower back/calf pumps)
    Reputation: Very similar to that of Halodrol-50, although people who've tried both seem to prefer Halodrol. For a while a lot of people were conviced that these two products were one in the same. Rest assured, they are not. This is a methyl derivative of clostebol.


    Oxyguno
    Innovator: Spectra Force
    Nomenclature: 4-chloro-17 -methyl- etioallochol-4-ene- 17 -ol-3,11-dione
    Pill Size: 7.5mg
    Dosages: 7.5-22.5mg daily
    Side effects: Heptatoxicity from 17a-methylation. Very low androgenic sides.
    Reputation: Despite popular belief, this is not the most myotrophic designer out there: it has the highest Q factor. It is actually only about 77% as myotrophic as the active present in Havoc/Epistane/Hemaguno. Users taking Oxyguno can expect mass gains as well as excellent fatloss. Due to it's incredibly low androgenic ratio, strength gains are not as pronounced.

    Furaguno/ Ortasan-A
    Innovators: Spectra Force / Gaspari Nutrition
    Pill Size: 33mg
    Nomenclature: 5a0androstano[2,3-c] furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol
    Dosages: 33-99mg daily
    AAS Equivalent: Winstrol (stanozolol)
    Class-II
    Side Effects: very mild
    Reputation: Supposedly lowers cholesterol, increases androgenic receptor activity, and does not induce any heptatoxicity. This product is too young on the market to have developed a reputation yet. Get some, log it, and let us know so I can update this compound's profile. This is a prosteroid to furazabol.

    3-AD / 11-oxo
    Innovator: Anabolic Xtreme / Ergopharm
    Pill Size: 150mg
    Dosages: 450mg
    Nomenclature: andrenosterone, 11-oxo-androstenedione, or 4-androstene-3,11,17-trione (all mean the same thing)
    Side effects: Mild
    Reputation: This prohormone has a great affinity for blocking up cortisol receptors. User's report great changes in body composition, namely significant fatloss.
  15. New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBerto View Post
    Not Prohormones...

    Mass Tabs - test boosters
    Mass tabs were not prohormones THEY WERE STERIODS! MethySten (TM) = Methyl Stenbolone. Nice how they play it off as a test booster huh?
  16. Recovering AXoholic
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    stenbolone is a methylated steroid. The fact that they called it Methyl Sten is quite redundant, and funny.
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  17. Advanced Member
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  18. Senior Member
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    Got a quick question here -

    What would be the best choice for an individual that runs 5-6 days a week on top of the weight routines? Looking for safety, as I've never cycled while doing this much cardio.
    Used PP/Finigenx and MTST/MTRN in the past. I've been looking mainly at Propadrol, but really not sure.

    Thanks
  19. New Member
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    New ? & Gone


    Maybe I missed it but the Three Methyols for Sostonol 250 ??
    Did you get those in here...

    Bout to do My purchase of sos 250 I bought on a whim...since I did 2 descent cycles of superdrol previously.....
    Got to get my PCT stuff first & let ths horrible winder season go away first. ( Hard gainer .stress of winter makes a difference ! )
    185 +/- almost 40 years old lifting seriously 4-6 years now. Bench easily ?? 240 x 10 squat "Comfortably" 350+/-..
  20. New Member
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    help


    i have been cycling on and off for about 20 yrs, have tried just about everything there is, but i just joined this site and after reading of all these designer roids that i have never heard of, how long has most of this stuff been around, and where would i purchase it because right now i just go to Tijuana, since i live in san diego where i get the normal decca, winny, sustenon 250ect. thank u
  21. Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman View Post
    i have been cycling on and off for about 20 yrs, have tried just about everything there is, but i just joined this site and after reading of all these designer roids that i have never heard of, how long has most of this stuff been around, and where would i purchase it because right now i just go to Tijuana, since i live in san diego where i get the normal decca, winny, sustenon 250ect. thank u
    A simple google search will come up with much of the products, some can be difficult to locate if discontinued, and our sponsors definately have some of the products listed.

    Welcome to AM.
  22. New Member
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    I am new to this site and was reading some of the threads, i feel like i woke up and am in a different world, i have always used steriods and had incredible, incredible gains and now i come to this site and i read about prohormones, what is that? and 17 methyl bol and m1p and the list is just endless. Are these supplements or what is all this stuff. Is it just the sponsers of this site pushing their product? I mean i have tried so many things from creatine and VO2 and HMB, etc. all this stuff that was supposedly great and i never ever got close to the results i got when i was on the juice.

    So my question to all u that are knowlegeable with these products is how comparable are they to being on the juice, maybe they arent as effective but have less side effects i dont know. What would be the most effective stack to take for strength, , muscle gain and at the same time staying relatively cut, i know what i would take if i was on the juice.
    thank u for your time and hpefully u can educate me ,
  23. Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman View Post
    I am new to this site and was reading some of the threads, i feel like i woke up and am in a different world, i have always used steriods and had incredible, incredible gains and now i come to this site and i read about prohormones, what is that? and 17 methyl bol and m1p and the list is just endless. Are these supplements or what is all this stuff. Is it just the sponsers of this site pushing their product? I mean i have tried so many things from creatine and VO2 and HMB, etc. all this stuff that was supposedly great and i never ever got close to the results i got when i was on the juice.

    So my question to all u that are knowlegeable with these products is how comparable are they to being on the juice, maybe they arent as effective but have less side effects i dont know. What would be the most effective stack to take for strength, , muscle gain and at the same time staying relatively cut, i know what i would take if i was on the juice.
    thank u for your time and hpefully u can educate me ,

    As reiterated all over the board... The compounds that you inquire about are technically and chemically steroids, very few 'pro-hormones' are left on the market. They are different formulations upon and modifications of things that you have probably already had experience with. Many of the products are methylated, so as to compare to 'juice,' one should not and cannot really compare to an injectable steroid, but maybe other orals. There were readily available oil based and transdermal versions of prohormones in past years, but those are gone as well. : (

    As compared to HMB, CLA, ZMA, and many others, there is no viable comparisons in terms of strength and muscle aggregation. Creatine suits many well in terms of assistance or aid in a workout program, but by and large is not closely comparable in the fact that you change your lifestyle/ habits (such as eating habits and workout routine) based on a compound you ingest.

    All the information in this thread and for the most part on this board is factual and from real world results, no merely marketing hype to sell a product. This board offers ideology to techniques, such as 'pulsing' that if you are unfamiliar with you should read up on; then form your own thoughts regarding if it is something you would want to try.

    Is it true that many of the sponsors of AM produce the weightlifting supplements, yes. As do countless other companies. But, the companies of AM are reputable as stated by thousands and you can compare the results of others who take the same product. Many of our sponsors run tests on their products to display their integrity to our world of physical fitness.

    Other companies, Nutraplanet being key, is an online retailer that sells various products by various companies at great prices. I have about 10 of their wonderful T-Shirts.


    But to answer your question about what you should take. LOL
    What's my fee?

    Take 11-oxo and Havoc or Epistane (or one of the other clones) for 4-6 weeks or pulse.

  24. Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_town View Post
    As reiterated all over the board... The compounds that you inquire about are technically and chemically steroids, very few 'pro-hormones' are left on the market. They are different formulations upon and modifications of things that you have probably already had experience with. Many of the products are methylated, so as to compare to 'juice,' one should not and cannot really compare to an injectable steroid, but maybe other orals. There were readily available oil based and transdermal versions of prohormones in past years, but those are gone as well. : (

    As compared to HMB, CLA, ZMA, and many others, there is no viable comparisons in terms of strength and muscle aggregation. Creatine suits many well in terms of assistance or aid in a workout program, but by and large is not closely comparable in the fact that you change your lifestyle/ habits (such as eating habits and workout routine) based on a compound you ingest.

    All the information in this thread and for the most part on this board is factual and from real world results, no merely marketing hype to sell a product. This board offers ideology to techniques, such as 'pulsing' that if you are unfamiliar with you should read up on; then form your own thoughts regarding if it is something you would want to try.

    Is it true that many of the sponsors of AM produce the weightlifting supplements, yes. As do countless other companies. But, the companies of AM are reputable as stated by thousands and you can compare the results of others who take the same product. Many of our sponsors run tests on their products to display their integrity to our world of physical fitness.

    Other companies, Nutraplanet being key, is an online retailer that sells various products by various companies at great prices. I have about 10 of their wonderful T-Shirts.


    But to answer your question about what you should take. LOL
    What's my fee?

    Take 11-oxo and Havoc or Epistane (or one of the other clones) for 4-6 weeks or pulse.

    good post!

    one other thing, these 'designer' steroids DO require PCT's!!
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    Well thank u for your time and information, there is nothing worse than to be misinformed or uneducated and harming yourself. So what is the difference between the regular steriods i have taken, and these newer desiger products, they both seem to have side effects? and i looked up pulsing and i got everything from planetary pulsing to arterial pulsing, is there a link u can direct me to.

    I have always thought that bodybuilders are like a brotherhood and should share their knowledge and experiences like is being done here, what results should i expect with the stack u recommended, thank u very much for you time and education . Also i keep reading superdrol, gives good results are the side effects not worth it, kind of like Anadrol 50, which is very good but is very toxic on the liver
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman View Post
    Well thank u for your time and information, there is nothing worse than to be misinformed or uneducated and harming yourself. So what is the difference between the regular steriods i have taken, and these newer desiger products, they both seem to have side effects? and i looked up pulsing and i got everything from planetary pulsing to arterial pulsing, is there a link u can direct me to.

    I have always thought that bodybuilders are like a brotherhood and should share their knowledge and experiences like is being done here, what results should i expect with the stack u recommended, thank u very much for you time and education . Also i keep reading superdrol, gives good results are the side effects not worth it, kind of like Anadrol 50, which is very good but is very toxic on the liver
    this is the pulsing thread, it has a ton of good info...
    How to "pulse" orals

    superdrol is good, although you're right, it is liver toxic and does a number on your lipids as well. i experienced a 15lb gain in lbm my first cycle, which was only from 3 weeks of being on. of course those were first cycle gains but i have experienced at least 6-8 lbs lbm each cycle since.

    havoc and epistane are the same compound from different manufacturers. these compounds are a bit milder than superdrol. they have both been run and logged quite a lot on this board and the majority of users experience significant increases in strength and size. this one and superdrol both are very popular compounds to pulse btw.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfearl1 View Post
    this is the pulsing thread, it has a ton of good info...
    How to "pulse" orals

    superdrol is good, although you're right, it is liver toxic and does a number on your lipids as well. i experienced a 15lb gain in lbm my first cycle, which was only from 3 weeks of being on. of course those were first cycle gains but i have experienced at least 6-8 lbs lbm each cycle since.

    havoc and epistane are the same compound from different manufacturers. these compounds are a bit milder than superdrol. they have both been run and logged quite a lot on this board and the majority of users experience significant increases in strength and size. this one and superdrol both are very popular compounds to pulse btw.
    Well thank u for all your information, i was reading the steriods forum and read u were on your 12th week of test cypionate, so my question is i am a professional wrestler and had a hip replacement and had some other complications so i was away from the gym for a year and had a bunch of medicines that made me gain weiight so now that i am back, i didnt want to get back into anything toxic like anadrol 50, i think 20 yrs of jucing there comes a time when u gotta look into milder things, especially since i already have a foundation and experience.

    I was going to stack equapoise wth test cyp and some decca, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, no orals, but then i read about all these other things on here, these designer roids, so my question to u since u have used both. Do u use both, one over the other, help for someone who is kind of confused, i dont want to waste my time, if staying on the juice is going to give me better results, but if i can get similar results with less side effects then i will use the designer roids, thank u
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman View Post
    Well thank u for all your information, i was reading the steriods forum and read u were on your 12th week of test cypionate, so my question is i am a professional wrestler and had a hip replacement and had some other complications so i was away from the gym for a year and had a bunch of medicines that made me gain weiight so now that i am back, i didnt want to get back into anything toxic like anadrol 50, i think 20 yrs of jucing there comes a time when u gotta look into milder things, especially since i already have a foundation and experience.

    I was going to stack equapoise wth test cyp and some decca, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, no orals, but then i read about all these other things on here, these designer roids, so my question to u since u have used both. Do u use both, one over the other, help for someone who is kind of confused, i dont want to waste my time, if staying on the juice is going to give me better results, but if i can get similar results with less side effects then i will use the designer roids, thank u
    Hey koman,
    The majority of the effective designers are methylated and therefore will be the same toxicity wise as if you are taking Anadrol or dbol. I think that if you are wanting to cycle effectively and safely with little or no toxicity, the cycle that you mentioned with test, EQ and Deca would be the way to go. I'm curious however, why you would go 2 weeks on and two weeks off though?? Test cyp and deca are longer lasting esters and cycling this way wouldn't mitigate HTPA shut down. If it were me, I would run 500-600mg test cyp, 400-600mg deca 15 weeks and pulse an effective designer such as Superdrol or Epistane/Havoc on your Workout days for weeks 1-8... Just my $.02 Welcome to AM, by the way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman View Post
    Well thank u for all your information, i was reading the steriods forum and read u were on your 12th week of test cypionate, so my question is i am a professional wrestler and had a hip replacement and had some other complications so i was away from the gym for a year and had a bunch of medicines that made me gain weiight so now that i am back, i didnt want to get back into anything toxic like anadrol 50, i think 20 yrs of jucing there comes a time when u gotta look into milder things, especially since i already have a foundation and experience.

    I was going to stack equapoise wth test cyp and some decca, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, no orals, but then i read about all these other things on here, these designer roids, so my question to u since u have used both. Do u use both, one over the other, help for someone who is kind of confused, i dont want to waste my time, if staying on the juice is going to give me better results, but if i can get similar results with less side effects then i will use the designer roids, thank u
    well this is my first injectable cycle i'm on right now and have never experienced these types of gains with the oral designer cycles i have ran in the past. but, i think you hit the nail right on the head when you asked if you can get similar results with less side effects. you already know that everything that gives good results is going to have some sort of sides. with that said, i would go with a 5-6 week havoc or epistane (same thing) cycle or a longer pulse cycle if thats what you decide to do. after this test cycle, i am definitely a bigger fan of the longer steady gains rather than the quick sudden 10-15lb gain in a couple weeks so a pulse would be good imo. you could easily get 10-15 lbs out of a longer pulse and it sounds like you've been natural for a little while so you should respond quite well. run some test with a pulse and you'd have great gains with little sides.
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    I don't think 11-OXO binds to the corticosteroid receptor, it simply blocks the 11HSD1R enzyme that converts cortisone to cortisol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leggo my Ego View Post
    Hey koman,
    The majority of the effective designers are methylated and therefore will be the same toxicity wise as if you are taking Anadrol or dbol. I think that if you are wanting to cycle effectively and safely with little or no toxicity, the cycle that you mentioned with test, EQ and Deca would be the way to go. I'm curious however, why you would go 2 weeks on and two weeks off though?? Test cyp and deca are longer lasting esters and cycling this way wouldn't mitigate HTPA shut down. If it were me, I would run 500-600mg test cyp, 400-600mg deca 15 weeks and pulse an effective designer such as Superdrol or Epistane/Havoc on your Workout days for weeks 1-8... Just my $.02 Welcome to AM, by the way.

    Well i have never done two weeks on and two weeks off, but i have a couple of friends in my business who do it like that and look great, and its almost similar to the "pulsing" method i was just introduced to, in that u dont need to have so much **** in u all the time, spread it out a little and u can use it longer with good results and very little side effects, so thats why i was going to try it. 2 questions better to use superdrol or epistane/havoc, i know the latter are milder, but which gives better results? And what post cycle therapy would be good after using these products, thank u for your time
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfearl1 View Post
    well this is my first injectable cycle i'm on right now and have never experienced these types of gains with the oral designer cycles i have ran in the past. but, i think you hit the nail right on the head when you asked if you can get similar results with less side effects. you already know that everything that gives good results is going to have some sort of sides. with that said, i would go with a 5-6 week havoc or epistane (same thing) cycle or a longer pulse cycle if thats what you decide to do. after this test cycle, i am definitely a bigger fan of the longer steady gains rather than the quick sudden 10-15lb gain in a couple weeks so a pulse would be good imo. you could easily get 10-15 lbs out of a longer pulse and it sounds like you've been natural for a little while so you should respond quite well. run some test with a pulse and you'd have great gains with little sides.

    thank u for all the information, this is a great site, very informative, i wish this would have been around when i first started on the gas, would have saved me a lot of experimenting
  33. Recovering AXoholic
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    Quote Originally Posted by machinehead View Post
    I don't think 11-OXO binds to the corticosteroid receptor, it simply blocks the 11HSD1R enzyme that converts cortisone to cortisol.
    Yeah. I don't know what I was thinking about when I had typed that up. Fixed that one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leggo my Ego View Post
    Hey koman,
    The majority of the effective designers are methylated and therefore will be the same toxicity wise as if you are taking Anadrol or dbol. I think that if you are wanting to cycle effectively and safely with little or no toxicity, the cycle that you mentioned with test, EQ and Deca would be the way to go. I'm curious however, why you would go 2 weeks on and two weeks off though?? Test cyp and deca are longer lasting esters and cycling this way wouldn't mitigate HTPA shut down. If it were me, I would run 500-600mg test cyp, 400-600mg deca 15 weeks and pulse an effective designer such as Superdrol or Epistane/Havoc on your Workout days for weeks 1-8... Just my $.02 Welcome to AM, by the way.
    Any methyl will have a significant liver toxicity as the methylation makes the steroid unable to form a ketone at 17. The amount of damage it does is correlated slightly by androgenic ratio; therefore, there's a signficant difference between the amount of damage done by dbol versus anadrol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman View Post
    Well i have never done two weeks on and two weeks off, but i have a couple of friends in my business who do it like that and look great, and its almost similar to the "pulsing" method i was just introduced to, in that u dont need to have so much **** in u all the time, spread it out a little and u can use it longer with good results and very little side effects, so thats why i was going to try it. 2 questions better to use superdrol or epistane/havoc, i know the latter are milder, but which gives better results? And what post cycle therapy would be good after using these products, thank u for your time
    I've seen some old protocols for 2ON, 4OFF, repeat, repeat. However, there were more fast acting less toxic legal options out there when this was popular. I'm not sure your choices for this strategy run any deeper than superdrol clones. And, the gains would likely be disappointing for someone who already has experience with gear IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    I've seen some old protocols for 2ON, 4OFF, repeat, repeat. However, there were more fast acting less toxic legal options out there when this was popular. I'm not sure your choices for this strategy run any deeper than superdrol clones. And, the gains would likely be disappointing for someone who already has experience with gear IMO.
    So i think my question would be if u get better gains using gear why would someone use stuff like superdrol because according to what i have been told it also can be toxic on the liver, is it because its legal. Also i want to take a testosterone creme from mexico called lowtiyel, anybody had an experience with it. Probably one of the few things i have never tried but i have heard test cremes are good
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman View Post
    So i think my question would be if u get better gains using gear why would someone use stuff like superdrol because according to what i have been told it also can be toxic on the liver, is it because its legal. Also i want to take a testosterone creme from mexico called lowtiyel, anybody had an experience with it. Probably one of the few things i have never tried but i have heard test cremes are good
    superdrol gives extremely good results man. i would say its definitely right there with dbol. not as 'wet' of a compound, its actually rather dry. but the strength and mass increases are definitely up there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman View Post
    I am new to this site and was reading some of the threads, i feel like i woke up and am in a different world, i have always used steriods and had incredible, incredible gains and now i come to this site and i read about prohormones, what is that? and 17 methyl bol and m1p and the list is just endless. Are these supplements or what is all this stuff. Is it just the sponsers of this site pushing their product? I mean i have tried so many things from creatine and VO2 and HMB, etc. all this stuff that was supposedly great and i never ever got close to the results i got when i was on the juice.

    So my question to all u that are knowlegeable with these products is how comparable are they to being on the juice, maybe they arent as effective but have less side effects i dont know. What would be the most effective stack to take for strength, , muscle gain and at the same time staying relatively cut, i know what i would take if i was on the juice.
    thank u for your time and hpefully u can educate me ,
    Dude, your post sounds like you are a Federal agent or something. You have been cycling on and off for 20 years and never heard of PH's. You are comparing creatine to roids? I do not want to welcome you by bashing but if you are not a Fed, then you spend way too much time reading the NY Times.
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    I hope I didn't come off sounding like a **** but you can never be too paranoid these days. If you are legit, then welcome to the forum.
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