Originally Posted by Beau

As I rep'd you, great post. If you get to it, perhaps a list of recommended combinations/stacks would make it even more beneficial.

I've taken this into account, and have started writing up a list of popular stacks.

Right now I've got:
Superdrol/Prostanozol
Superdrol/Pheraplex
Pheraplex/Max LMG
Ergomax/Max LMG
Methoxy-TRN/Methoxy-TST
Methoxy-TRN/Pheraplex or Methoxy-TRN/Pheraplex/Prostanozol


If you can think of any other "popular" stacks, feel free to chime in, and I'll try 'n' make a new thread some time in the next couple of weeks.

Great post. Thanks. I did not see Hemadrol mentioned anywhere? I read that it is exactly the same as Halodrol -50. But not sure if it's the same potency. I would like to know about that from anyone. None the less, graet post man!! reps to you.

Originally Posted by glockma

Great post. Thanks. I did not see Hemadrol mentioned anywhere? I read that it is exactly the same as Halodrol -50. But not sure if it's the same potency. I would like to know about that from anyone. None the less, graet post man!! reps to you.

Yeah, I only listed the originals, and not any of clones which hit the market later on. If I listed all the clones, I'd have about a million.

Originally Posted by thesinner

That's a pretty sick stack. I wish 1-test was still around. I was way too young to be on the juice train when it was available, and never had a chance to access any pre-ban.

I stocked up before the ban b/c the feedback on 1-Test was so overwhelming.

Sinner I copied and pasted this great thread and posted it at DA hope u don't mind.

Really good stuff man. Should help out alot of newbs over there.

Originally Posted by UNCfan1

Sinner I copied and pasted this great thread and posted it at DA hope u don't mind.

Really good stuff man. Should help out alot of newbs over there.

You bastard! How could you?! just kidding. I put it together to help the noobs, the more ther merrier.

What's DA? I'm not a member there....yet.

Originally Posted by thesinner

You bastard! How could you?! just kidding. I put it together to help the noobs, the more ther merrier.

What's DA? I'm not a member there....yet.

Discount anabolics.

i'm thinking about running a m-trn/m-zol/superdrol soon. it would like like this

trn-1234
zol-3456
sd-456 10/10/10

what dosages do you guys think should be run on the trn and zol?? i've seen low low dosages and very high as well so i'm not too sure because i've never run trn or zol. pc t will be torm, hdx2, massfx, retain, and probably some fenu. i also have some activate but that might be overkill.

If you start low, you can always increase the dosages. In my opinion, the less you can take (and still see results) the better.

Havoc has had some spectroscopy issues

I was under the impression Havoc tested fine and Epi was spurious?

Originally Posted by riskarb

Havoc has had some spectroscopy issues

I was under the impression Havoc tested fine and Epi was spurious?

Nope, actually the other way around. Havoc gave bad test results, which had people biting their nails and skeptical about epistane.

Originally Posted by thesinner

You bastard! How could you?! just kidding. I put it together to help the noobs, the more ther merrier.

What's DA? I'm not a member there....yet.

Wouldn't sweat joining DA. Its just an average small forum. Most of the vets have left DA.


BTW bro, great post ---- thanks so much for taking the time. Def. sticky material.

Originally Posted by thesinner

Nope, actually the other way around. Havoc gave bad test results, which had people biting their nails and skeptical about epistane.

You're just a little off here sinner...I don't think a final conclusive statement could be made about either.

Both have been accused of having problems, whether it be purity, molecular weight or the actual compound or compounds in the pill.

But lets not make another thread about this...hahaha

Originally Posted by PumpingIron

You're just a little off here sinner...I don't think a final conclusive statement could be made about either.

Both have been accused of having problems, whether it be purity, molecular weight or the actual compound or compounds in the pill.

But lets not make another thread about this...hahaha

Lord knows we don't need another one of those threads. I was aware of Havoc's issues, but I also tried to stay away from those drama threads, so I must've missed epi's problems. I editted my post (to make it a little more general).

Great thread man. This will save some time researching!! props!

Originally Posted by PumpingIron

You gotta fix a few things...

AX was not the innovator for PP, it was either ALRI or DS (I forget)...

Prostan is not the prosteroid of winny, it is the unmethylated version of it.

For fini, look up diplomats logs, he was obsessed with that stuff.

You're missing a few others as well, M1T, Andro, NorAndro, 1-Test, 1AD, 4AD, Promagnon25, Oxyguno, Furaguno...

..I'm probably forgetting some.


Good post though, guess someone was bored.

I loved this!! I wanted to do this, but you beat me to it ,.. and I still must spread my love around before giving you any more

I thought I should note , Progmag-25 is a ph to Methyl-Test. Althought it LOOKS like H-50.
It also appears (from some of the more recent logs) that users can expect about the same results ... you know, since it ,. um IS eventually methyl test :P

It might be helpgull to identify the progestins specificly in addition to it may or may not kill libedo)..
those would be finni, MaxLMG, TRN, and propadrol (,--me thinks)
anyways, GREAT post!!

Originally Posted by xtraflossy

I loved this!! I wanted to do this, but you beat me to it ,.. and I still must spread my love around before giving you any more

I thought I should note , Progmag-25 is a ph to Methyl-Test. Althought it LOOKS like H-50.
It also appears (from some of the more recent logs) that users can expect about the same results ... you know, since it ,. um IS eventually methyl test :P

It might be helpgull to identify the progestins specificly in addition to it may or may not kill libedo)..
those would be finni, MaxLMG, TRN, and propadrol (,--me thinks)
anyways, GREAT post!!

Yeah promag and H-50 are different. Even Oxyguno has a very similar nomenclature, but they're all completely different compounds. I was not aware that Promag converted to methyltest Also note that this doesn't necessarily mean that all (or even a majority) of it will eventually become methyltest.

I made sure to identify the progestins (except propadrol as I'm not 100% if the shoes fit), and added your mention of pro-mag's converting to mtest.

I'm on 100mg of promag now...and the results are more similar to what I've heard from H-50...lean dry gains with little sides and some recomp and vascularity.

promagnon has 1 ingridient difference that H-50 but im not sure what effect that ingredient change does. Hemadrol is according to the lisred ingredients, exactly the same as H-50. Again, good post. I like and appreciate everyones comments, input. keep it up guys!! Learn mor every day here.

sorry about the spelling, not a big multi tasker here

Originally Posted by mfbb

I'm on 100mg of promag now...and the results are more similar to what I've heard from H-50...lean dry gains with little sides and some recomp and vascularity.

I think you're confusing methyltest with M1T. And yeah, promag and H50 yield pretty similar results (but from people who've tried them both, they seem to prefer H50).

Originally Posted by xtraflossy

I thought I should note , Progmag-25 is a ph to Methyl-Test.

Don't forget the 4-chloro on Promag. It's target hormone is actaully 4-chloro-17b-hydroxy-17a-methyl-androst-4-ene-3-one (4-chloro-methyltestosterone - much drier, I believe). I guess you could call it "methylclostebol."

Originally Posted by thesinner

I've taken this into account, and have started writing up a list of popular stacks...

Methoxy-TRN/Pheraplex

That was one of my favorites. Best strength gains! This was with the originals, ALRI M-TRN & DS Phera-Plex.

Originally Posted by thesinner

I think you're confusing methyltest with M1T. And yeah, promag and H50 yield pretty similar results (but from people who've tried them both, they seem to prefer H50).

nah- Im pretty sure it converts to methyltest (not confising w/ m1t). and dry, modest gains,.. strength are consistant with it. I'll look around, I try and find where it was BK, or someone explaining it (back when H-50 was really big)


And I know I posted something from pubmed about 13-gonnadiene, and the process in which it was created (as an isomer) from the parent progestin.
lol- damn,,. , might take me a few for both.
I also could just be off my rocker

Originally Posted by xtraflossy

nah- Im pretty sure it converts to methyltest (not confising w/ m1t). and dry, modest gains,.. strength are consistant with it. I'll look around, I try and find where it was BK, or someone explaining it (back when H-50 was really big)

Bump to my previous post.

Originally Posted by xtraflossy

nah- Im pretty sure it converts to methyltest (not confising w/ m1t).

I was talking about mfbb confusing the two. As I recall M1T wasn't dry. Let me know what you find with on propadrol and Promag.

Originally Posted by Mass69

That was one of my favorites. Best strength gains! This was with the originals, ALRI M-TRN & DS Phera-Plex.

I really enjoyed this stack as well. I ran it last fall with just moderate dosages of M-TRN for a 3 weeker and had great results.

Originally Posted by glockma

promagnon has 1 ingridient difference that H-50 but im not sure what effect that ingredient change does. Hemadrol is according to the lisred ingredients, exactly the same as H-50. Again, good post. I like and appreciate everyones comments, input. keep it up guys!! Learn mor every day here.

promagnon has a different active. Though the compounds are similar in structure, rest assured that means nothing in terms of functionality.

Originally Posted by bearmeat

Apparently it is NOT the exact same thing. Bruce Kneller and Bill Llewellyn both have said it is not the same chemically (you can decide whether you can take their word for it). You can compare the two actives yourself.

ProMagnon-25: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-4-ene-3,17b-diol


Halodrol-50: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3,17b-diol

Bill on BB.com: If that chemical name is correct, it is not the same thing as Halodrol. This lacks a 1-ene. It is a precursor to 4-chloromethyltestosterone (a methylated derrivative of Clostebol/Megagrisevit Mono) instead.

Bruce on BB.com: The PPL product is the 4-halogenated precursor to 4-chloro-methyltestosterone while the GN product is the 4-halogenated precursor to Oral Turinabol.

This is the first thing I came accross close to what I was refering about (to the p-25)


Bodybuilding.com - Big Cat - In Depth Megagrisevit Mono Profile!
Megagrisevit Mono

NOTICE: This information is for entertainment purposes ONLY!

Full profiles on each individual steroid are here.



Pharmaceutical Name: clostebol (as acetate)
Chemical structure: 4-chloro-androst-4-en-3-one,17b-ol
Molecular weight of base: 322.8741
Molecular weight of ester: 60.0524 (acetic acid, 2 carbons)




Effective dose: 20-50 mg/day
Average Street-price: $5-7 for a vial of megagrisevit mono (1.5 ml)
Available Doses: 15 mg tabs or 10 mg/1.5 ml injections




Characteristics:

Steranabol is no longer made and cannot be found under this name anywhere. If you do find it under that name, consider it a fake. Steranabol is confusing as well, because Farmitalia still makes steranabol Depot and steranabol Ritardo, but both of those are forms of the nandrolone derivative oxabolone cypionate (see profile on Steranabol). The active ingredient, clostebol acetate is still found in the German product Megagrisevit Mono however, but since that's a little long to pronounce, its either referred to as steranabol or by its pharmaceutical name, clostebol.

Structurally, clostebol is simply testosterone with an added chloro group at the 4-position. In itself quite ingenious. I mean you see all sorts of structural alterations to prevent a steroid from interacting with enzymes, but none as simple as this. By putting a structural alterations right on top of the 4-position, it cannot be 5-alpha reduced to dihydrotestosterone, thereby limiting a more androgenic form in androgen specific tissue like scalp, prostate and skin. And so of course, avoiding all problems associated with DHT formation like extreme cases of acne and serious hair loss. But it also prevent aromatization, so no estrogen is formed. That limits fat gain, bloat and the risk of breast growth in men (gyno). Needless to say of course that eliminating the stronger androgenic and all of the estrogenic components, this steroid is nowhere near as potent as its parent, testosterone. But you have to admit the beauty of it. Why use testosterone if you are only going to stack it with fortunes worth of arimidex and finasteride to block estrogen and DHT, if you can just take clostebol and be done with it? I mean if you are going to screw around and mess up the strongest anabolic, do us all a favour and just use this stuff. If you really can't take the side-effects and still want to use a steroid. Although I must say I loathe such people. Either you take it like man and accept the risk, go for the gains and get from it what you can, or you can't tolerate the risk, and then you should just stay away from all steroids. Period. I hate those "I want it all and don't want to pay for it" type of people.
.....................
Ok,.. so a little contradiction here,.. but like I said, I could be wrong :P

How about I say it is a methylated derivative of clostebol?

Sorry for the clutter,.. THIS is what I was looking for...

Wow Gaspari. - Bodybuilding.com Forums post #27
Uhm...no.


Pro Magnon 25 by PPL is 25mg per cap of this -

4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-4-ene-3,17b-diol

Halodrol-50 by GN is 50mg per tab of this -

4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3,17b-diol


This is like comparing test to dbol. The PPL product is the 4-halogenated precursor to 4-chloro-methyltestosterone while the GN product is the 4-halogenated precursor to Oral Turinabol.

You are comparing apples and oranges here.

I know the owners of both PPL and GN personally. Both people are great guys and very honest but both are separate companies that have nothing to do with each other.

Both products are quite effective in their own way but they will cause substantially different types of effects. The PPL product is more androgenic than the GN product. The GN product is has a higher A:A ratio. Neither will aromatize to estrogen due to the 4-halogen. Both probably have intrinsic active properties before conversion to the "active hormone" being 3,17b-diols (despite not having the requisite 3-ketone to bind to the AR optimally).

Both are very good products but they are absolutely NOT the same compound and anyone telling you differently is lying to defraud you or just can't read and made an honest mistake.

I hope this clears things up.


BK

Originally Posted by thesinner

I made sure to identify the progestins (except propadrol as I'm not 100% if the shoes fit), and added your mention of pro-mag's converting to mtest.

Well, here's the discussion I had when Propadrol came out. I posted part of the study, and I'll post the first part here, and include the link to it. (lol- I am in NO way a smart man, so again, I could have been talking out my arse yet again :P)

Exploring:New anabolic: MAX LMG --> Propadrol

Exploring:New anabolic: MAX LMG --> Propadrol
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found this while looking for information on that propadrol chem that looks like LMG, but claims that it is not..

Gona-4,9(10)-dienes and process of producing the same
Document Type and Number: United States Patent 4167517
Link to this Page: Gona-4,9(10)-dienes and process of producing the same - Patent 4167517

Abstract: New gona-4,9(10)-dienes of formula I ##STR1## where R is alkyl of 1 to 3 carbon atoms and X is Cl, Br, F, N.sub.3, SCN, CN, OH, OR'(R'=alkyl), NH.sub.2, a substituted amino group or a heterocyclic compound including nitrogen in the ring.
The compounds have valuable biological properties, especially hormonal and antihormonal effects, and can be used to advantage in pharmaceutical preparations for the treatment of endocrinopathies and for reproduction control in human beings and livestock.

The invention also embraces a process for making the compounds by converting
3-methyoxy-13.beta.-R-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17.beta.-spiro-1',2'-o xiranes.

first to 17beta-hydroxy-17alpha.-CH.sub.2 X-13. beta.-R-gon-5(10)-en-3-one,

then to the:

17.beta.-hydroxy-17.alpha.-CH.sub.2 X-13.beta.-R-gona-4,9(10)-diene-3-ones of formula I.


Max LMG is 13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17-one
Propadrol is 12-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-diene
Im not a chemist, but it looks like (either in nomenclature or design) for LMG they added an Ethyl??? - hell,.. maybe swapped the placement of the methoxy too.


maybe someone can chime in on IF this above artical has anything to do with anything...
I think where I am tring to go with this is:
Propadrol is to Max LMG what Pheraplex is to Ergomax

That propadrol could be a metabolite (altered or not) of Max LMG ~ the one responsable for the majority of the anabolic activity

Propadrol Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Caps
Servings per container: 40
Amount Per Serving
6-17 dihydroxyetiocholone-3-ol proponate
12-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-diene 15mg

This is an AWESOME thread! Great info!