Epistane testing results
- 04-11-2007, 12:38 PM
Don't say you weren't warned.
- 04-11-2007, 12:41 PM
For those that wonder about the 288 reference, as PA stated:
yes the results for havoc show that the stuff contains a compuond that has a MW of 288. 288 is the correct MW for the methylepistanol (it desulfurizes in the injection port to give 288)
So the compound starts out with a higher MW, but when it desulfurizes in the injection port, it goes to 288.
04-11-2007, 12:41 PM
04-11-2007, 12:43 PM
I have two meetings to go to, won't be back till after 5pm. I'm sure I'll have 50 pages to read by then
04-11-2007, 12:48 PM
ok interesting.so how does 288 correlate necessarily to the true product in question if its for test.i realize they have similarities as anabolic compounds but im just tryin to understand how that works is all...
and similar q on the 277 mw.how is it correlated to the proper product?
how is a pure standard nto available anywhere for a legit pure product?again,admitadly clueless,just geniunely curious
04-11-2007, 12:53 PM
Man you can't even admit it when your wrong. WEAK! Glad I bought Havoc and didn't buy your bottle of mystery powder.
Maybe later today we can play guess the active ingredient.
We have for players: Mass Tabs, Ripped Tabs, Methoxy-Trn, Methoxy TST, and now Epistane!
Winner gets a half eaten protein bar.
04-11-2007, 12:56 PM
Remember to keep the personal attacks out of the thread. Discuss and debate the results as much as you want.
As an observation: The user reports of reduced or eliminated gyno after using Epistane really cannot be ignored. There are so many of them spread across different boards from experienced users who have credibility in their various online communities. I don't understand the science of these test results enough to contribute anything meaningful about what they say about Epistane....but SOMETHING unusually positive comes from this product. Precisely as predicted by the structure of the compound.
I'll leave it for others more knowledgeable to debate the test results.
04-11-2007, 12:57 PM
This whole situation has really soured me on using anthing like epi, havoc, superdrol, or anything except what goes in a syringe from my trusted guy. Who knows what is in these pills? You just have to trust.
I understand D's frustration, and as a Christian myself, Christianity does not remove frustration or anger.
Why do we care? We eat crap all the time and beta test things all the time and have no idea what is in them. No one has said anything bad about the results from either supp. There are risks taking this stuff...deal with it. I have seen many in both these threads who have jumped on beta testing without wanting to know the purity or MW of the prod they test..why bother with it now. If it is impure, do you think it just became that way? Do you think all supps are "pure"? Hell, the stuff is made in garages in some cases. None of this is pure cause we aren't rich enough to have it that good. And if you were, you would be too busy to be adding fuel to this fire.
I am not subscribin to this thread and am done talking about or reading about this slap fight. Both parties are being asses, and one in particular seems to have an agenda and I will not further it by reading this crud. It should be locked, this forum is not a qualified place to have this discussion. What it will do is cause forum-hysteria.
Good luck to both of you. you probably won't stop the pickin at each other thing, but I hope one of you just man's up and walks away..no net war has ever been won in the real world.
04-11-2007, 12:57 PM
04-11-2007, 01:01 PM
04-11-2007, 01:04 PM
04-11-2007, 01:04 PM
Attack the information, not the person. This will not keep getting repeated. I'm here looking for information just like the rest of you and I also want clear cut answers but attacking someone's religion or anything else for that matter besides their statements gets us nowhere.
04-11-2007, 01:06 PM
04-11-2007, 01:08 PM
04-11-2007, 01:09 PM
So, results are posted. And, now, with 44 members viewing the thread, both the OP (1Fast) and the defendant (Dr. D) skip town.
04-11-2007, 01:26 PM
anyway, regarding all of this stuff, why would IBE say things about Havoc being impure, when their stuff was?
it doesnt make sense, there is no way they would be dumb enough to think noone would test it.
the arguing back and forth over the last couple weeks has resulted in alot of "prove it is!" and "no, you prove it isnt!" which doesnt get anybody anywhere.
and these tests dont really prove anything do they?
i mean, if the product is somehow less potent or less effective than the company says, and people are still making great gains from it, and even getting some other benefits (gyno reduction) there must be some good things about it.
i dont know, the controversy kind of makes me want to buy Epistane (my cart at a site has 2 bottles of Havoc in it im waiting to order, but that may change) i dont know which is "better" "more pure" or "contains magical unicorns" but the logs dont lie (logs...on here, not toilet logs) and people are enjoying using both Havoc and Epistane, so something must be good about both.
04-11-2007, 01:29 PM
I haven't gone anywhere. I love my PDA . I'm listening to a boring meeting anyway . So Dr D just left instead of explaining how a MW of 270 makes that active epistane. All because someone made a god reference.
04-11-2007, 01:30 PM
04-11-2007, 01:30 PM
Seeing posts like this make me want to bash my head against a wall.and these tests dont really prove anything do they?
04-11-2007, 01:33 PM
Yes, obviously both havoc and epistane work.
that being said, i want to know what substance i am ingesting, and i trust the label on a product to tell me what that is.
This is my understanding of the situation.
1. no one has a standard to go by (major problem)
2. 1fast claims the substances orginal MW is over 288 and becomes 288 due to the testing process
3. Dr D claims that the substance degrades to 270 in this testing process (if i recall correctly, feel free to correct me dr. d.)
is it possible the same substance can degrade to both 288 and 270 respectively? or that different testing pocesses can degrade the product to either one of these values?
D. if you are reading this, humor us and explain the situation one more time.
the fact of the matter is that we now have a test saying epistane has under half the dose it says it does per capsule.
if this is incorrect, wouldnt it be beneficial for IBE to post results of its own?
04-11-2007, 01:38 PM
Everyone I have spoken to, that I trust with a chemisty background can't justify this compound having a MW of 270. There is a VERY logical explanation for how it ends up at 288, which both havoc and SFR's product did. That is why I asked very clearly to D:is it possible the same substance can degrade to both 288 and 270 respectively? or that different testing pocesses can degrade the product to either one of these values?
How can your product have a MW of 270 and be the correct active?
04-11-2007, 01:44 PM
Just looking at the amount of members reading this thread. I don't think it would be wise for parties of either side of this issue to just get up and leave.
If anyone from either side decided to do that, it would be more of an admission of guilt by the entire company. Atleast that is how a normal consumer would comprehend it. And as your average consumer...I have to say
THANK YOU MIKE!!!
04-11-2007, 01:49 PM
kinda makes you wonder...however it does do what it says it does, so I wonder what it could be....
04-11-2007, 01:51 PM
04-11-2007, 01:54 PM
and many may see Dr. D leaving from religious attacks as a "cop out" but alot of people take their religion very seriously (not me, but i know alot of people who do), and if you see this one instance and him saying hes leaving, yeah, it looks like a copout, but with recent events and people bashing him, id say it was more of a straw that broke the camels back type of deal for him.
furthermore (saying that makes me seem smart) i dont see how RPN (or representatives there of) proving that Epistane has half the claimed ammount of actives in it is good for Havoc, from the logs i have been reading, both seem to be on par with results, so basically you are proving that an "impure" product with half the actives in comparison to Havoc, is just as good?
from a business stand point, neither company should have said anything in the first place and just held out their hands for consumers money.
i get youre trying to help (hopefully) but these threads over the past few days havent had civil arguments in them, it has been more bashing of a member, and constant prodding for answers.
again, i would really hate to see Dr. D's PM box.
give him some time, he will most likely come back and speak about this some more, hopefully before the thread reaches 30 pages and gets locked.
04-11-2007, 01:59 PM
04-11-2007, 02:02 PM
Once again, I will let my attorneys discuss the matters of tort violations, unfair business practices, and libelous remarks. Those parties that contacted distributors with false and misleading information in attempts to discredit my company will have plenty of opportunity and a nice, oath-sworn chance to explain themselves.
And now, I will go back to shutting up and letting fools speak when they should have never spoken in the first place.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless
04-11-2007, 02:21 PM
nobody seems to be wondering WHY DO PEOPLE STILL GET GAINS AND HAVE GREAT SUCCESS WITH GYNO REDUCTION!? if its not what it claims to be then what the hell else out there can reduce gyno and deliver great strength gains?
04-11-2007, 02:34 PM
OK, I see quite a few problems with this test.
1.) Why even bother to test it when you have no standard. You say the standard is 288? Have you shown us some documentation showing that the peak ion for this compound is 288?
2.) D's previous explanation of the fragmentation in the GC/MS is legit taking into account that the actual weight of the compound is much higher that 270 peak.
3.) This could all be solved if a company was hired to synthesize epi in house then develop a standard for the RT as well Mass Spec.
4.) All this bickering is pointless. your comparing one test to someone else's word about what it should be. Id personally like to see the GC/MS data for havoc rather than take someones word for it.
Can we see the tests on havoc and SFR's product??
04-11-2007, 02:46 PM
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