Poll: Live and die by a-bombs? (obviously when looking for max gains)

Anadrol

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  1. Registered User
    baham99's Avatar
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    Anadrol


    Just curious for members here, because this is a love or hate thing.

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    i will be starting it in my next cycle....
    cant wait!!!
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    You'll get more gains with dbol and less sides...its also cheaper...seems like a no brainer to me...
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    The only way you will get more gains with dbol is if you go on very high doses (50+ mg per day) or you anadrol is bogus. Nothing really matches anadrol in terms of sheer mass gains. The weight wont be pretty but you will gain a lot of it.
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    From Big Cat's Profiles about Anadrol "...since Methandrostenolone can produce similar results with half or a third of the doses normally used with oxymetholone and with less side-effects. So personally I would recommend methandrostenolone over oxymethelone, as its clearly stronger, milligram fro milligram."
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    I highly doubt (from my personal experience) that dbol is that much stroner then anadrol. It is stonger but not by as much as you are saying. I would say 25% stronger at most and when you figure anadrol is $2.5 and dbol is what .40 per pill anadrol is actually a bit cheaper. 100mg anadrol=75mg dbol. This is just based on my experience and i have used upwards of 13 dbol a day and it did not quite measure up to 2 anadrol a day.
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    yeah dbol 50 mg will probly give the same muscle mass gains as 100-150 mg drol, but look at the increase in vascularity , RBC count increase etc from anadrol too . thats pretty unique to that one steroid .
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    lol you're rite ray, but when you're holding 15 lbs of water, the rbc production doesnt really matter lol...
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    never took it, but i am planning on it soon
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    probably gonna take it my next cycle
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    The only draw back to anadrol is the extreme mass you LOSE when your done. Even if you have an awesome post cycle recovery strategy you will still lose a lot (water/muscle)
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    I don't know why people keep saying this because it has no truth whatsoever. Water you'll lose but muscle you will not if you do your post cycle therapy properly. Drol or Dbol or any steroid for that matter does not have these magic properties that make you lose gains anymore than another AAS. If proper post cycle therapy is followed you should always keep the majority of your gains.
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  13. AlexParty
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    Bob, what do you consider a proper post cycle?
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    HCG, Nolva/Clomid, calories and protein stay high.
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    And Big Cat says.....


    Anadrol



    Pharmaceutical Name: Oxymetholone
    Chemical structure: 17 beta-hydroxy-2-hydroxymethylene-17alpha-methyl-5 alpha-androstan-3-one
    Molecular weight of base: 332.482



    Effective dose: 50-150 mg / day orally
    Average Street-price: $1.50 - $2 per 50mg tab
    Available Doses: 2.5, 5 and 50 mg tabs



    Brands & Products:

    Syntex Anadrol 50 (US) 50 mg tabs
    Anapolon 50 (GB) 50 mg tabs
    Anasteron (o.c.) (GR,S) 50 mg tabs
    Hemogenin (Brazil) 50 mg tabs
    Oxitosona 50 (o.c.) (ES) 50 mg tabs
    Ibrahim TK Anapolon 2.5, 5 and 50 mg tabs
    Cilag Dynasten (o.c.) (PT) 50 mg tabs
    Grünenthal, Proto-chemie Plenastril (o.c.) (CH) 50 mg tabs
    Abic, Ramat-Gan Roboral (Israel) 50 mg tabs
    Sarva Synasteron (B) 50 mg tabs

    Characteristics:

    Oxymetholone is without a doubt the strongest and most visibly active steroid to date. Not only does it act very rapidly, it causes a virtual explosion of mass. Gains of up to 10 pounds in 2 weeks are not uncommon. This is largely due to a moderate to low androgenic effect combined with a high anabolic activity also mediated by non-AR mechanisms (mechanisms other than simply binding the androgen receptor). You can imagine that the gains made on oxymetholone aren't the leanest. You would note a drastic smoothing out of the muscle due to estrogen-related fat (lipolysis) and water retention. This lipolysis has been shown to be rather drastic. One study1 on long-term hemodialysis patients showed beyond a doubt the role that oxymetholone can play in causing hyperlipedemia. The fat deposition rate, post-hepatic (after processing by the liver), increased drastically in the oxymetholone group while numbers remained stable in the control group.

    It has been suggested that the estrogenic effects of oxymetholone may not be as much mediated by estrogen, as by oxymetholone itself activating the estrogen receptor. Because there is little to no aromatisation off oxymetholone, the possible progestational effect was examined first. Similar to that of nandrolone perhaps. But a study2 testing the progestational effects of oxymetholone and methandrostenolone against those of testosterone as well as nandrolone and its metabolites showed that the progestagenic activity of oxymetholone wasn't even in the neighbourhood of that of testosterone, let alone nandrolone. Ruling out the possibility of progestagenic activity and aromatisation, that only left oxymetholone engaging in a structure with the estrogen receptor itself. Since it has an A-ring similar to that of estradiol (the prime estrogen) so this would be the most logical explanation. Since progesterone acts as an estrogen agonist, it would require circulating estrogen to negotiate such levels of water build-up as oxymetholone causes, so it seemed like a far-fetched idea to begin with.

    The water component resulting from oxymetholone use is not be under-estimated either. The benefit of water retention is of course a lubrication of the joints, allowing the comfort of pain-free workouts even with extremely heavy weights, as well as the retention of more nutrients inside the cell, possibly leading to more permanent growth in muscle tissue. The downside to a massive water retention is that it gives you a rather puffed up look. A look not uncommon in off-season competitive bodybuilders and the heaviest classes of powerlifters. With the estrogen increase of course comes the increased risk of more side-effects such as gynocomastia (growth of breast tissue in men). Therefore its always advised that a cycle of oxymetholone is accompanied by the use of an anti-estrogen such as Nolvadex. Nolvadex, keeping in mind that aromatase enzyme is not involved, would be the wiser choice as it blocks the receptor for estrogen rather than the aromatase enzyme. [/color=yellow] It's wise to note as well that the gains from oxymetholone are largely mediated by estrogen, so reducing estrogen may reduce results as well. [/color]

    Because it is mild androgen as well as a potent estrogen, blood volume is increased. Androgens raise the red blood cells (although this has been shown to happen through a mechanism other than erythropoesis3) to improve aerobic performance while estrogens increase the white blood cells in an attempt to stimulate the immunity. Couple that increase in blood cells to an increase in water and you get a serious increase in blood volume. This effect has been known to result in magnificent pumps for the users of oxymetholone products. The synthesis of extra erythrocytes (Red blood cells) also increases stamina and performance (this effect is largely negated by the larger estrogenic component. Oxymetholone is not a good product for athletes). Together with the unbelievable strength effect of oxymetholone's water retention that makes for some incredible workouts. On a side note, these characteristics make for anadrol's popular use in treating anemia.

    The use of oxymetholone should be strict and brief. While it is no doubt the strongest steroid, quantitatively, its also by far the most hazardous steroid to your health. Apart from the great risk of common steroid-related side-effects (acne vulgaris, benign prostate hypertrophy, gynocomastia and androgenetic alopecia), it also has numerous other side-effects. Most notable is oxymetholone's hepatoxicity (damaging to the liver): Its standard 17-alpha-alkylated as with most oral steroids, resulting in an inavoidable raise in liver transaminase enzyme counts. The most frequent of the hepatoxic effects is jaundice4 (yellow coloration of the skin) due to an oxymetholone induced increase in biliburine, but others include peliosis hepatis and formation of hepatic tumors (cancer). And that's not all. There is also a number of intrinsic side-effects noted with the use of this steroid. Headaches, stomach aches, nausea, vomiting, insomnia and diarrhea are among common afflictions associated with oxymetholone use.

    This is the reason why only strict doses of oxymetholone are used , often only 1-2 tabs of 50 mg. The general rule of thumb is to use 0.5 or 0.6 mg per pound of bodyweight, most likely putting you in the 100-150 mg range. Because of the negative effects on the liver, its often not used for more than a two or three weeks. The results are fast, but also fleeting and therapy is usually continued with another aromatizable compound, most likely a long acting testosterone like Sustanon or testosterone enanthate. The Anabolic Review also warns that under no circumstances should oxymetholone use exceed 6 weeks. When using oxymetholone, or any oral 17-alpha-alkylated steroid for that matter, one should always consult a physician on a frequent basis and get your liver values checked. Its not that oxymetholone is necessarily more toxic to the liver, but rather that much higher doses are needed than with other oral steroids, so the relative risk increases as well.

    Other notes I should mention about this compound are that oxymetholone's androgenic qualities are not linked to a 5-alpha reduced form. As a matter of fact it shows rather poor interaction with the 5AR enzyme, making it futile to treat a possible increase in hair loss with 5-alpha reductase-blocking products such as finasteride. Its androgenic component stems from the fact that oxymetholone is very much like Dihydrotestosterone were it not for the added 2-hydroxymethylene group. Since this group can be metabolically removed, that would leave methyl-DHT. A compound with a weaker affinity for the androgen receptor than straight DHT, but more active and with less affinity for the DHT-reducing enzyme 3beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase. Ultimately resulting in much stronger, instead of weaker androgenic effects than compounds that are actively 5-alpha reduced. This evens out largely, because the distribution is even across the body, where 5-alpha-reduction usually concentrates more potent androgenic forms in androgen responsive tissue such as skin and scalp.

    The effect on the blood pressure is rather drastic, so its recommend that you use a anti-hypertensive drug in conjunction, especially if you already have a fairly high blood pressure. Here too the care and control of a physician is advised. Because of the HPTA (hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis) suppressive nature, the use of Clomid or Nolvadex and HCG is advised as well towards the end of your oxymetholone use. Lastly, oxymetholone also has an ill effect on the glucose tolerance5, causing borderline diabetic situations. Something to be weary of if you yourself have been diagnosed with similar problems already.

    In conclusion one can safely state that the negative effects on the system associated with the use of this hormone are rather drastic and that the use is therefore not recommended for beginners, women or people who have pre-existing afflictions. Nonetheless Anadrol remains a popular steroid among experienced users to kick-start a steroid cycle because of its magnificent increases in strength and size. Most people who have used oxymetholone with great success have no problem calling it the strongest and most reliable steroid available today. A somewhat surprising remark however, since Methandrostenolone can produce similar results with half or a third of the doses normally used with oxymetholone and with less side-effects. So personally I would recommend methandrostenolone over oxymethelone, as its clearly stronger, milligram fro milligram. Oxymetholone remains a strong and favorable compound however, despite its side-effects. Its effects may also be slightly more explosive than those of methandrostenolone and therefore people seeking strength may give it an edge over the former.

    A lot of oxymetholone products were discontinued in the early 90's due to the high rate of side-effects, making them rather uninteresting. The renewed interest came when it was being effectively used in the treatment of the wasting disease AIDS, sparking a comeback. Nonetheless users should note that the original 50 mg Anadrol50 was taken over by Unimed. The original Anadrol50 by Syntex is no longer made or found. There has also been a surge of legit underground compounds such as the Ttokkyo oxymetolona 50. So be careful and do your homework when looking for Oxymetholone.

    Stacking and Use:

    Anadrol is an oral only compound and is 17-alpha alkylated with a methylgroup to allow for a higher yield when having to traverse the liver, as with most oral compounds. As such it has a good degree of hepatoxicity and should not be used for longer than 6 weeks on end and it is highly recommended that you get your liver values checked regularly. Because of its long activity and poor affinity (due the the 17AA) good results can be obtained with a single daily dose, so spreading your doses out is an option but is anything but necessary. A single dose of 50-100 mg every day is recommended, but doses as high as 150 or 200 are used by experienced bodybuilders as well. Due to its rapid action and high toxicity, its mostly used to kickstart a longer injectable cycle in the first 3-5 weeks of that cycle. It will add a lot of mass and strength on immediately, getting you through the low-result beginning of an injectable cycle. Its use is thus very similar to that of Dianabol, but with the latter being slightly more versatile.

    As such it makes a good match early in a stack with you standard testosterone/nandrolone stacks, with boldenone (equipoise) and methenolone (primobolan) as well. Since it has a high intrinsic affinity for the estrogen receptor and next to no intrinsic affinity for the androgen receptor I doubt anyone would contemplate using this for cutting. To even out the massive water retention one might choose to stack it with trenbolone (finaplix/parabolan) or stanazolol (Winstrol/Stromba) but never for the purpose of looking lean. Anadrol, like Dianabol, may also be one of the few orals that has real merit when using it alone. Although the gains are often hard, near impossible to keep afterwards.

    In terms of secondary drugs, I wish I had a lot to recommend here, but really there isn't much to be helped with oxymetholone. Even with liver protection it would still do serious damage and with every bit of added protection, the efficacy rate of oxymetholone would go down. As for estrogen maintenance, Nolvadex being the strongest of estrogen receptor antagonists comes highly recommended and preferably in higher than normal doses, 30-40 mg, as its oxymetholone itself that is the culprit and not its aromatized form. On the other hand, we need to take into account that more than half of Anadrol's anabolic action stems from this estrogenic action as well. So its sort of trading less side-effects for gains. One thing that is advised is blood pressure medication as extreme hypertension has been noted. And I'll say it a third and last time, its best to get regular liver check-ups when taking Anadrol.

    References

    1 Reeves RD, Morris MD, Barbour GL., Hyperlipidemia due to oxymetholone therapy. Occurrence in a long-term hemodialysis patient., JAMA 1976 Aug 2;236(5):469-72

    2 Desausles PA, Les hormones anabolisantes de point de vue experimental (Anabolic hormones from an experimental viewpoint), Helv. Med. Acta 1960 , 479-503

    3 Molinari PF, Neri LL., Effect of a single oral dose of oxymetholone on the metabolism of human erythrocytes., Exp Hematol 1978 Sep;6(8):648-54

    4 Pavlatos AM, Fultz O, Monberg MJ, Vootkur A, Pharmd., Review of oxymetholone: a 17alpha-alkylated anabolic-androgenic steroid, Clin Ther 2001 Jun;23(6):789-801; discussion 771

    5 Woodard TL, Burghen GA, Kitabchi AE, Wilimas JA., Glucose intolerance and insulin resistance in aplastic anemia treated with oxymetholone., J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1981 Nov;53(5):905-8
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    The hepatoxicity issue is overated as many studies have shown. THe results in strenght and mass gain are quite fast but any LBM that you do gain, do not dissappear as long as post cycle is carried out correctly. People think they do because just as its fast acting, the water and strenght dissapears just as fast so they assume all is lost, but its not. There are competitors that acutally this pre-contest cycle.


    Its its not the most toxic. Methyltrienolone ic considered much more toxic.
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    so if a50 is used to kick start a test cycle of 500mg wk. when discontinuing a50 would upping test to 1g a wk help solidify gains or as you say post cycle is more important?
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    I will be doing research soon ...I will get back to you on this
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    Originally posted by organdoner
    so if a50 is used to kick start a test cycle of 500mg wk. when discontinuing a50 would upping test to 1g a wk help solidify gains or as you say post cycle is more important?
     

    Has this been discussed elsewhere?  I can't seem to find info on bumping up the test after drol...i may just be an idiot though
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    your cycle will incomplete with dbol or drol. its like taking Tom away from jerry.. just not the same cartoon.

    even though these are both very harsh on one system. we make the decision to take them for the gain we are looking to achieve. I personal like my dbol and drol. Just for the sole purpose off jump starting my cycle so when my 1750mg of test hits me I will have a nice lead.
    I just have to make sure you take Milk Thistle with dandelion root seem to help clean the liver/kidneys of these leftover toxins that these compounds leave behind.

    NO CYCLE IS COMPLETE without DBOL or DROL

    D69
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    I agree with bobo in saying their is nothing magical about the gains that make them unattanable. I myself have used anadrol twice and loved it both times. Both times I grew fast, got strong as hell and kept most of my gains. Also for everybody talking about the bloat, I believe it is overated also. Yes it might bloat some people badly but I myself doesn't bloat that much on it and I know of others that don't bloat to bad on it. Plus anadrol is highly anabolic and androgenic so how would it be possible for it not to build quality muscle tissue.
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    At the beginning of a cycle, I ran 100mgs of drol for 6 weeks, I was up 17 lbs at the end of the 6 weeks, and only dropped 5 lbs of water 3 weeks later.
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    Those who think Dbol delivers greater gains than anadrol, have never used anadrol. Oxymetholone is the absolute most anabolic steroid available. Strength gained is not lost post cycle and size is very retainable especially if stacked with something highly androgenic, like masteron or winstrol. Big cat does give a lot of good info, however he is wrong when it comes to this one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablo69
    your cycle will incomplete with dbol or drol. its like taking Tom away from jerry.. just not the same cartoon.


    NO CYCLE IS COMPLETE without DBOL or DROL

    D69
    Why is this? Why couldnt you make some gains off a few weeks of one or the other without stacking it?
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    Real American Anadrol is the best stuff I have ever taken. I never felt so pumped all the time. But all the other brands (hemoginin etc) seems like it is 1/2 strenght. D-bol makes me big but not as hard
  27. king of useless information!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvtrojan
    Why is this? Why couldnt you make some gains off a few weeks of one or the other without stacking it?
    I think he's saying the gains will be that much better if you take a dbol and test stack rather than just a test cycle. Basically why cheat yourself by not adding dbol or drol into your cycle

    correct me if im wrong obvioulsy
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    I totally agree with you. I am a firm believer of taking a oral with any cycle. Though I probably would not take to much test with a50 or dbol. I prefer deca with those two compounds. Right now I am taking 5 d-bol a day just to keep my body weight up. And it is working. 6'0" 240 and hard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ready2explode
    You'll get more gains with dbol and less sides...its also cheaper...seems like a no brainer to me...
    This harkens to the standard dosages of Methyl-Dien being only 1 gram while M1T is 10gms. Essentially you get the same yield. Take enough Anavar you will Anadrol results. Point is, every drug is different, decide what type of results you want (mass, lean, both) how much risk/reward you can stand and go for it.

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    I doubt you could take enough Anavar to ever get the saem results as Anadrol. You would get extreme side effects before that would ever happen. Its comparing apples to oranges. Having used Anadrol (I didn't when this poll was created) I have to say it is the BEST, BY FAR, that I've ever used. I practially exploded and it doesn't even compare to Dbol (I mainly use Naps). It blew Dbol out of the water but the only downside is price compared to Dbol. But its definetly worth it and I will be using it again in the future.
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    I can get Drol quite cheap and for the record it is much much more powerful than D-bol.

    Only disadvantage of Drol is the fact that you will lose much of your gains if you dont use something alongside, If you can hack Tren with Drol then you will keep much of your strenght and muscle gains and those will be some nice gains too.
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    I think its more personal preference than anything.
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    Im assuming stacking it with test does not help you keep the gains? Most things ive read say its very hard to keep the gains, and im assuming everyone or at least 3/4 people have a test base in there cycle, plus some people more. So when would these gains fade? Right after you come off the drol even though still on test? When your done with the whole cycle?

    What would help you keep the gains? Winny?
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    Quote Originally Posted by offsides25
    Im assuming stacking it with test does not help you keep the gains? Most things ive read say its very hard to keep the gains, and im assuming everyone or at least 3/4 people have a test base in there cycle, plus some people more. So when would these gains fade? Right after you come off the drol even though still on test? When your done with the whole cycle?

    What would help you keep the gains? Winny?
    nothing. a lot of the gains are water witch you will lose. it the muscle you gain that you keep. I am going ot run fina with to help with gains and water (fina dries the hell out of me,) I am going to try this it this summer
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    Ok, first of all, I would like to personally correct myself and my profile here. I no longer recommend Dbol over Anadrol. I don't actually recommend either, but anadrol is definitely a better product. What I said however is still accurate, mg per mg dbol does usually lead to bigger gains, 50 mg of dbol having more effect than 50 mg of anadrol.

    But anadrol is clearly a better product. First of all, don't use either without combining with at least testosterone and/or another potent androgen. Neither exerts any mentionable androgenic effect, so it would be stupid to ommit an androgen that would be highly synergistic. Both these drugs exert their anabolism through their estrogenic effects. But Dbol does by conversion ti 17-alpha-methyl-estradiol, and anadrol does so by directly binding the estrogen receptor. That makes anadrol's effects much more reliable and dose-dependent, and unlike with 17AA estradiol, anadrol cannot convert to less positive estrogens like estrone.

    In muscle, estradiol receptor agonists can activate skeletal muscle RAS. RAS stands for renin-angiotensin system whereby renin converts angiotensigogen to angiotensin I and Angiotensin Converting enzyme (ACE) converts AngI to AngII. AngII then works on two receptors, the AT1 receptor being the most relevant here, the AT2 has slight inhibitory properties.

    The work of Jones and Woodward on skeletal muscle RAS clearly portrays a role for AngII in muscle hypertrophy, not only leading to direct anabolic effects in regards to muscular hypertrophy and strength gains, but also long term in terms of fiber-type switching. RAS activation leads to more Type IIb muscle fibers that are more prone to explosive strength gains and faster hypertrophic response. So these low-androgenic, high estrogenic drugs not only augment hypertrophy, but also what type of hypertrophy and will eventually speed up future muscle gain.

    Estrogen's, and especially anadrol then, will activate RAS in a dose-dependent manner. This is quite evident from the dose-dependent increase in RAS-specific side-effects such as increased water retention (through RAS mediated aldosterone release), increase blood pressure (throug AngII and aldosterone) and headaches (as a result of the hypertension). Having said that, I have also adressed the major negatives of these drugs.

    In conclusion :

    - I recommend neither anadrol or dbol
    - I would only use them in combo with a strong androgen (test and/or tren)
    - Dbol is stronger mg for mg, but anadrol is the better drug
    - Both these drugs, and anadrol being the better, bring specific problems with them such as hypertension and water retention

    On a side note, water retention and hypertension can be reduced but not completely abolished, with specific aldosterone inhibitors, such as eplenorone (not sure on spelling).

    And estrogens also have other anabolic effects, but only for RAS activation can we assume they are dose-responsive.

    Gains from these products, directly at least, are very hard to keep. But gains from Drol are more maintainable than those of Dbol. They will however result in better and more keepable gains in future cycles due to increased fiber-type switching. The opposite is true for anti-estrogen fanatics. You are probably not just paying more for something you quite likely don't even need, you are shooting yourself in the foot and actually paying more for less gains. Anti-e's should only be used in people particularly prone to estrogenic sides (an absolute minority, most can tolerate 750 mg of test a week without signs of gyno) and when you do, opt for a SERM rather than an anti-aromatase.
  36. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    No need to correct yourself BC. We all know this stuff is ever evolving.
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    Of course there is a need to correct myself. This stuff is ever evolving and I evolve with it. Yet I have to stand by my principles of offering the best and most correct advice, and when a theory or conclusion changes, I feel obliged to inform people thereof.
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    What was meant is that you don't need to justify yourself. Most people know you wrote those profiles some time ago. Some observations though:

    1. I didn't bloat much at all with Anadrol but I did with Dbol and I am very sensitive to estrogen. So the effects of 17 methyl estradiol has a much more direct effect on me than Drol's direct binding to the AR. Dbol also might have a more direct effect on aldosterone production.

    2. I kept the majority of the gains from Drol. I also know some others that don't bloat as much using Drol so the idea that it causes major water retention might be a stretch.
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    the half-life of 17AA estradiol is considerably longer than that of anadrol, that could have something to do with it.
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    But what is the binding time of Anadrol?

    Also I think the effect on aldosterone production is relatively independent on the half-life of Anadrol. (ie. the effects on gene transcription, mRNA and protein synthesis)
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