Why You Should Always Have Nolvadex or Clomid on Hand for Gynecomastia Prevention

John Smeton

John Smeton

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heres an article I came across online. Its a good one


06.07.2015
Why You Should Always Have Nolvadex or Clomid on Hand for Gynecomastia Prevention

The latest and greatest internet steroid gurus will often recommend anti-aromatase drugs such as Arimidex or Letrozole as the treatment of choice to prevent gynecomastia (‘gyno’) in bodybuilders who use aromatizable anabolic steroids. While this may work in most case, the advice is dangerous because it doesn’t always work.

There are other readily available drugs that could have been used to effectively prevent gyno in those unfortunate cases. And steroid-using bodybuilders, especially those prone to gyno, should always have these drugs on hand when starting a steroid cycle.

The drugs I am referring to are the class of drugs referred to as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs). The most commonly recognized drugs in this class are Clomid (clomiphene citrate) and Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate). These drugs are nothing new. They have been around for decades.

Old school bodybuilders always relied on antiestrogens like Clomid and Nolvadex from the late 1970s through the 1990s. They were very effective at preventing gyno and often a better choice than the anti-aromatases at preventing gyno.

The reason for this is that SERMs can block all the estrogen sensitive receptors in breast tissue. So no matter how much estradiol is circulating in the blood, gyno won’t happen because all of the receptors are blocked.

On the other hand, AIs work by an entirely different mechanism. Rather than acting as an estrogen blocker, AIs prevent the conversion of aromatizable steroids to estrogen by disabling the enzyme responsible for the conversion (i.e. aromatase).

Second and third-generation AIs like Arimidex and Letrozole only became available in the mid- to late-1990s. And even at that time, the cost was prohibitively expensive out of reach for all but the most affluent bodybuilders. This scarcity made it even a more desirable drug. These drugs only became widely available to the masses when they were introduced as “research chemicals” marketed as “not for human consumption” at a fraction of the price.

If SERMS like Clomid and Nolvadex worked so well, why were bodybuilders so excited by the arrival of anti-aromatase drugs? Well, gynecomastia is only one negative side effect of the elevated levels of estrogens caused by aromatizable steroids such as testosterone and Dianabol (methandienone). High estrogen levels can cause a host of other undesirable side effects, some less obvious than others. Elevated estrogen levels can contribute to extra fat buildup and visible water retention and bloating. It can contribute to elevated blood pressure. Some people suspect that it is elevated estrogen (and not elevate androgens) that actually contribute to prostate cancer.

There are many good reasons to keep one’s estrogen levels in check. And for this reason, the recommendation to use anti-aromatase drugs (AIs) like Arimidex and Letrozole during a steroid cycle represents sound advice. AIs can effectively reduce circulating estrogens by 60-90%. However, recommendations of AIs as the best or only drug necessary to prevent gyno is very poor advice.

You should ALWAYS have SERMs like Nolvadex, Clomid or Toremefine on hand any time you are using aromatizable steroids. You don’t need to use them from the outset (or ever) if not necessary. The use of Arimidex or Letrozole is the best choice at managing serum estrogen levels and this may be enough to prevent gynecomastia as well. But if it is not, the absolute best choice as a gynecomastia treatment are SERMs.
 

criticalbench

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I prefer to always have Letro on hand as well.. once the nipples swell out of control.. good luck.. sometimes even letro can't reverse it. You must stop and control letro.. my first attempt is to continue and run letro.. but if needed, stop and continue letro + nolva..

Always have the strongest on hand IMO.
 
John Smeton

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Yes, good to have ai's on hand in case. My favorite is still 6-oxo, as a lot of studies were done on it. I know its not as strong as some others. The research chems in liquid you really dont know how overdosed, underdosed, or effective they are.
 
grinnell27

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Good info for people who don't listen or are learning...its always better to prevent than to try and fix.
 
bigdavid

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While I agree with the recommendation for nolva and torem, clomid will not help with gynecomastia and should not be recommended for these purposes. If anything, it may actually worsen the situation.
 
unitas27

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Raloxifene FTW.
 
AnabolicGuru

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Aromatize inhibitors are superior to my preference; as I'm sure you know, serms won't control the estrogen in your body, it will just block it from binding to the breast receptors (at least tamoxifen, raloxifene, and toremifene) which is great and all, but your body is still converting all the exogenous testosterone into estradiol. Taking an aromatize inhibitor can be risky because some people will just crash their estrogen, but with proper dosages, it will balance it. I'd rather balance my estrogen as opposed to just block the breast receptor because all though a serm will prevent gyno, it won't fix facial bloat, low libido, excess fat, and so on. I would only use a serm as a crutch if I didn't already have an aromatize inhibitor. That's just my preference
 
bigdavid

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Aromatize inhibitors are superior to my preference; as I'm sure you know, serms won't control the estrogen in your body, it will just block it from binding to the breast receptors (at least tamoxifen, raloxifene, and toremifene) which is great and all, but your body is still converting all the exogenous testosterone into estradiol. Taking an aromatize inhibitor can be risky because some people will just crash their estrogen, but with proper dosages, it will balance it. I'd rather balance my estrogen as opposed to just block the breast receptor because all though a serm will prevent gyno, it won't fix facial bloat, low libido, excess fat, and so on. I would only use a serm as a crutch if I didn't already have an aromatize inhibitor. That's just my preference
In terms of libido torem was very good in that regard. Nolva killed mine on or off cycle. Used torem for a few weeks while on and for a pct. libido was there both times. PSA lol.
 
AnabolicGuru

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In terms of libido torem was very good in that regard. Nolva killed mine on or off cycle. Used torem for a few weeks while on and for a pct. libido was there both times. PSA lol.
Clomid and torem are great for pct. I haven't tried torem yet, but clomid makes your balls nice and plump fairly quick lol. I heard torem is like clomid and nolva together
 
John Smeton

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While I agree with the recommendation for nolva and torem, clomid will not help with gynecomastia and should not be recommended for these purposes. If anything, it may actually worsen the situation.
As Donald Trump would say, Wrong.

Clomid differs from Nolvadex in that while SERMs are always anti-estrogenic in some tissues, they are estrogenic in others. Fortunately, both Clomid and Nolvadex are anti-estrogenic in the hypothalamus, making them useful for post-cycle therapy (PCT), and anti-estrogenic in breast tissue, making them useful as anti-gyno agents. Clomid however is estrogenic in the pituitary, which in some instances may even enhance its value for PCT. It’s likely estrogenic to at least some other neurons in the brain as well, causing increased emotionality. With regard to body fat and muscle, or any observable physical property, Clomid and Nolvadex have no other adverse estrogenic effects, but instead are useful anti-estrogens.


Raloxifene FTW.
Is my favorite Serm , Thank god I have a prescription for it
 
John Smeton

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Aromatize inhibitors are superior to my preference; as I'm sure you know, serms won't control the estrogen in your body, it will just block it from binding to the breast receptors (at least tamoxifen, raloxifene, and toremifene) which is great and all, but your body is still converting all the exogenous testosterone into estradiol. Taking an aromatize inhibitor can be risky because some people will just crash their estrogen, but with proper dosages, it will balance it. I'd rather balance my estrogen as opposed to just block the breast receptor because all though a serm will prevent gyno, it won't fix facial bloat, low libido, excess fat, and so on. I would only use a serm as a crutch if I didn't already have an aromatize inhibitor. That's just my preference
yeah Ai's obviously cut the conversion to estradoil down depending how strong the ai is, and ai dose. The only way to know is with blood work. Back in 2004 and 2005 I would use ai's post cycle and crushed my estrogen levels into the floor. Sore joints, injuries, feeling strange. Some estrogen is good of course.

I see no need to use an ai unless its an estrogen heavy cycle like higher dosed test or something that aromatizes. Something like deca and dbol or deca and phera, I wouldnt think would need one. Then again with all the fakes out there, the deca could be test. Now a serm would be a wise choice running high dosed deca, just in case in was fake. I agree its good to have ai's on hand if you need them.
 
AnabolicGuru

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yeah Ai's obviously cut the conversion to estradoil down depending how strong the ai is, and ai dose. The only way to know is with blood work. Back in 2004 and 2005 I would use ai's post cycle and crushed my estrogen levels into the floor. Sore joints, injuries, feeling strange. Some estrogen is good of course.

I see no need to use an ai unless its an estrogen heavy cycle like higher dosed test or something that aromatizes. Something like deca and dbol or deca and phera, I wouldnt think would need one. Then again with all the fakes out there, the deca could be test. Now a serm would be a wise choice running high dosed deca, just in case in was fake. I agree its good to have ai's on hand if you need them.
It's great to keep one on hand. Some people can blast 500mg test and 40mg dbol and not even need an ai, so in that case, it might not be necessary. I don't care to use an ai in pct unless i know my estrogen is spiking.
 
bigdavid

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As Donald Trump would say, Wrong.

Clomid differs from Nolvadex in that while SERMs are always anti-estrogenic in some tissues, they are estrogenic in others. Fortunately, both Clomid and Nolvadex are anti-estrogenic in the hypothalamus, making them useful for post-cycle therapy (PCT), and anti-estrogenic in breast tissue, making them useful as anti-gyno agents. Clomid however is estrogenic in the pituitary, which in some instances may even enhance its value for PCT. It’s likely estrogenic to at least some other neurons in the brain as well, causing increased emotionality. With regard to body fat and muscle, or any observable physical property, Clomid and Nolvadex have no other adverse estrogenic effects, but instead are useful anti-estrogens.




Is my favorite Serm , Thank god I have a prescription for it
You don’t address my point. I could have been more explicit...which is clomid does not have the same affinity and competitive antagonism for estrogen receptors in breast tissue like tamoxifen and other serms have. It may be a partial agonist in this area, which is why it was never marketed or used for cancer treatments.
 
bigdavid

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6637910/

Here is an older study in boys showing little effect at 50 mg per day.

Don’t get me wrong, clomid in high doses will partially help gyno, but its lack of receptor affinity and side effects with higher doses that are needed make it a much less desirable alternative to other serms.
 

criticalbench

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Yes, good to have ai's on hand in case. My favorite is still 6-oxo, as a lot of studies were done on it. I know its not as strong as some others. The research chems in liquid you really dont know how overdosed, underdosed, or effective they are.

Lol, I have not touched a research chem in god knows how long!! my letros are little mini mellow yellows! :D
 
John Smeton

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It's great to keep one on hand. Some people can blast 500mg test and 40mg dbol and not even need an ai, so in that case, it might not be necessary. I don't care to use an ai in pct unless i know my estrogen is spiking.
Yup ts very individual. The only real way to know is labs. You can guess and add a low dose ai 2-3 a week if necessary

You don’t address my point. I could have been more explicit...which is clomid does not have the same affinity and competitive antagonism for estrogen receptors in breast tissue like tamoxifen and other serms have. It may be a partial agonist in this area, which is why it was never marketed or used for cancer treatments.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6637910/

Here is an older study in boys showing little effect at 50 mg per day.

Don’t get me wrong, clomid in high doses will partially help gyno, but its lack of receptor affinity and side effects with higher doses that are needed make it a much less desirable alternative to other serms.
whats your point? The study you linked is on clomid not doing much for adolescent gynecomastia. The subject is serms, in this case clomid, for Gynecomastia Prevention. If someone already has gyno yes nolva is much better and ai's as well, ultimately letro if none else works.


Yea research grade is overpriced and bunk
One thing is for sure, I love my Doctors prescriptions , I've gotten clomid, hcg and raloxifene prescriptions thus far, Ive never asked for an AI script as I bought quite a bit of 6-oxo back in 2009, and that stuff is well studied . Of course pharmacy companies do make mistakes, its more than likely going to be great quality
 

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