first timer

[jetta97]

im sure you guys have probably answered similar ??'s many times and i apologize but heres the deal:
i am about to start my first ever cycle

i have been reading and reading and i have gotten many answers but i guess i just want to hear it from people instead of fact sheets

i am going to stack deca and sustenon
working up gradually over the course of 5 weeks and then working back down for 5

i was told to take the sust at a ratio of 2:1 to the deca

how does this sound and thank you in advance for your help

 

[CarryOnTheChaos]

IMO sustanon is not worth using unless your going to inject EOD otherwise the propionate will do you no good. Also, there is no need to pyramind up and pyramid back down when using test and deca, all that is really important is hard and proper PCT. I would hope that you know proper PCT as you said you have been researching your cycle. Without a proper PCT reçimen cycling is pointless IMO.

Other than that the 2:1 ratio is about correct assuming when using EOD you'll be taking between 750 and 1000mg's a week and deca will be fine at 400mgs.

hope this helps.

regards,
COTC

 

[Beelzebub]

what he said. EOD is the way to go for sustanon.

 

[jetta97]

thank you you guys are helping alot, so for pct i was thinking 6oxo dailyduring the cycle and the same after

also if im injecting eod would that be about 100 of deca and 250 of sust or
something along them lines?

 

[Sticks]

No, 6oxo is not sufficient for your pct. Get some nolva (tomoxifen citrate) check the board sponsors at the bottom of the forum.

If you inject 250 mg's of test eod you will be getting an avg of 825 mg's of test a week, which is way to much for a first timer. Try going w/150 EOD to get 525 mg's a week. W/the deca if you choose to shot it eod then i would go w/125 mg's eod for a total of 437.5 mg's of deca a week.

You don't have to inject the deca eod, but it may be easier to just mix it in w/the sust since you're already shooting eod. If you choose to you can shoot the deca twice a week on a mon/thur schedule. This is personal preference though and up to you. If you choose to shoot the deca twice a week then shoot 200 mg's each day, for a total of 400 mg's a week.

Most importantly though is that you get proper PCT set up.

Are you using sust amps, b/c if so much of my advice will be worthless.

 

[CarryOnTheChaos]

I did not even remember you were a beginner when I posted, my apologies.

In that case I agree with sticks if you HAVE to use sustanon. But IMO it would be much easier for a beginner to use a single ester test for his cycle such as enanthate. One reason is that pinning EOD is not that popular amongst beginners and generally not reccomended, and also since you are probably not 100% sure how to monitor blood work yet you would not be able to tell how steady your blood levels are staying on a test blend like sustanon. I would reccomend a bread and butter cycle of 500mgs Test Enanthate and 400mg Deca a week for 10-12 weeks to start.

If this is not possible and you must use the sustanon use sticks idea because 750mg to 1000mgs a week is certainly too much for a first cycle.

Sticks is also very correct about the PCT, 6-oxo is not sufficient. I would reccomend nolvadex, clomid, HCG, creatine, glutamine, and phosphatyldilserine for rock solid PCT. HCG I believe is more beneficial throughout the cycle as it makes PCT a world easier but can also be used for the last 2 weeks and first week of PCT with good results, IMO.

regards,
COTC

 

[glenihan]

most of what has been said is correct, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is be sure to run the test one week past the deca to allow the esters clear at the same time
this would be your best bet

1-14 150mg sust eod ~525mg a week
1-13 200mg deca 2x a week ~400mg a week
3-15 hcg 250iu 2x a week sub-q
15.5-18.5 40mg nolva first two weeks, 20mg nolva last two weeks (if using liquid tamoxifen use 60mg first 2, 40mg last 2) and throw in some creatine and other stuff like that keep cals high

even if you have sust amps, buys some presealed sterile vials and just open all the amps at once, draw up the sust and put it into a few vials

 

[Sticks]

most of what has been said is correct, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is be sure to run the test one week past the deca to allow the esters clear at the same time
this would be your best bet

1-14 150mg sust eod ~525mg a week
1-13 200mg deca 2x a week ~400mg a week
3-15 hcg 250iu 2x a week sub-q
15.5-18.5 40mg nolva first two weeks, 20mg nolva last two weeks (if using liquid tamoxifen use 60mg first 2, 40mg last 2) and throw in some creatine and other stuff like that keep cals high

even if you have sust amps, buys some presealed sterile vials and just open all the amps at once, draw up the sust and put it into a few vials

I thought sust had test decanoate in it. I could be wrong as i've never used sust, but if this is the case you wouldn't have to run the sust longer. I believe that deca has a half life of around 15 days and sust is actually a little longer than that.

I would start pct 2.5-3 weeks after past injection. Blends are really a pain in the ass. I think you'll be much better of getting a single ester test like cyp, or enan.

Also bump on glen's idea of getting the sterile vials as using 825 mg's of test a week for your first time as way to much.

 

[glenihan]

I thought sust had test decanoate in it. I could be wrong as i've never used sust, but if this is the case you wouldn't have to run the sust longer. I was under the impression that sust had a half life of around 14 days.

that's true, however, it also has prop, phenylprop (i think), and enan .. so the amount of test that is attached to the deca ester is relatively small and MOST of test would have cleared a while before that ... i'm of the mind better to start PCT a touch early rather than late

 

[Sticks]

that's true, however, it also has prop, phenylprop (i think), and enan .. so the amount of test that is attached to the deca ester is relatively small and MOST of test would have cleared a while before that ... i'm of the mind better to start PCT a touch early rather than late

This is the reason why blends are such a pain in the ass. If he only waits two weeks after his last sust inject he's still going to be surpressed, and may effectlively lose a week of pct. I've never used sust before so maybe someone w/experience can chime in here.

 

[jmh80]

No experience w/ sustanon here, but I've always read NOT to go w/ it as your test source for a 1st cycle. Like Glen said above, get testosterone enanthate or cypioniate.

 

[jetta97]

??'s

what is bread and butter cycling that cotc reccomended
and what form of test exactly do you guys reccomend
and what is the purpose of pyramiding
and why do i not need to do it?

 

[Beelzebub]

bread and butter cycles - test enan 500 ew and dbol 35mg ed(maybe some deca 400 ew)
form of test - test enanthate or cypionate (not much difference between the two)
pyramiding is useless

 

[CarryOnTheChaos]

by bread and butter cycling I was referring to exactly what beezlebub said...it is a very solid easy to follow cycle for first timers.

I highly reccomend it as it yields fantastic results and would not be a very complicated and confusing cycle considering your a "beginner"

regards,
COTC

 

[jetta97]

ok just so i am sure that i got this straight
shoot test enan once per week @ 500 mg
i have deca already on the way so 400mg once a week?!?
do i take clomid during or just after?

 

[jetta97]

sorry to be a bother but i also should let you know that i am 5 9 at 215 with about 20 percent body fat so if i keep to a strict diet and all these steroids i will shave some fat as well right ? i do cardio evry day after lifting

 

[jetta97]

you guys rock, i tried asking ??'s on another site and caught all sorts of bitchy attitude
thank you

 

[CarryOnTheChaos]

The clomid should be used only for PCT alongside nolvadex and HCG, creatine, phosphatyldilserine, and glutamine for rock solid recovery IMO

And yes your dosages are correct however I would shoot 2 times a week unless you feel like doing a 4 or 5mL injection once a week, lol.

I would say something like this:
Test Enanthate - 250mg - Mon and Thur
Deca - 200mg Mon and Thur
D-bol - 35mg ED (optional)

regards,
COTC

 

[CarryOnTheChaos]

As far as the fat problem I would reccomend possibly throwing in some T-3 or cytomel in future cycles when you have more experience.

IMO there are no such thing as bulking and cutting drugs because diet causes 90% of your "bulking" or "cutting" phases. And with substance like a-dex and femara out now you can keep a lean look on almost ANYTHING!

All in all learn to keep your diet in check and you should be able to slowly lose those extra lbs.

regards,
COTC

 

[Beelzebub]

carryonthechaos is right on the money. diet is the key factor. stick to low GI carbs spaced evenly throughout the day with protein at least 1.5X your bodyweight.

 

[Beelzebub]

actually, i disagree on one point. the HCG should be used during the cycle, not during PCT as it is still suppressive. swale's protocol is tried and true, 250iu's 2X a week keeps the nuts alive and well.

 

[CarryOnTheChaos]

Beez is correct about the HCG, however I believe ti can also be used Post cycle, not in massive doses as some reccomend but I usually continue the 250iu shots twice weekly for the first 2 weeks of my PCT...the last 2 have no HCG just nolva clomid etc...

regards,
COTC