Anyone ever suffered serious liver damage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydollars View Post
    Any ideas on how to keep HDL up while on cycle?
    fish oil helps, looks like ursolic acid helps too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1
    Maybe someone can chime in for me, but all I'm running is my cycle and TUDCA, & baby chewable aspirin, I actually put a hold on Organ Shield (which has NAC, Milk Thistle) cause I think I was getting more head aches from Organ Shield.

    So TUDCA is effective enough by itself correct?
    Bump for response....
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    I guess one way to think about it would be comparing it to drinking liquor. Some people drink stupid high amounts of liquor, some people take stupid amounts of oral AAS/PH. If someone drinks liquor till they black out each day for 8 weeks then I'd be willing to wager they have an increased risk of liver damage over your average Joe. Same thing with methyls, your risk is going to increase the higher the dose and length.

    That being said I've probably read as many threads advocating for the safety of oral AAS/PH lately as I have threads saying that they are extremely bad for you. I'm not saying there is no degree of risk, but I think that it's probably lower than some people believe. Just look at the number of people taking oral AAS/PH compared to the number who have had liver problems. I know a few users in RL who have had no problems as of yet, and I know there are a few or more on these boards as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313

    with a stupid stripper that used to date a buddy. She was hot as **** but horrible in bed and called me daddy oh daddy the whole time. I remember thinking this sucks and had to think about fuking my gf to bust a nut.
    A hot sexy stripper f.ucks you, calling you daddy oh daddy.
    I feel your pain.That must've been horrible for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1

    Bump for response....
    I have seen only limited blood work on TUDCA, but it keeps liver enzymes way down, never saw anything as effective
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydollars

    I have seen only limited blood work on TUDCA, but it keeps liver enzymes way down, never saw anything as effective
    Thx.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiggero View Post
    A hot sexy stripper f.ucks you, calling you daddy oh daddy.
    I feel your pain.That must've been horrible for you.
    Lmfao

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPro View Post
    I guess one way to think about it would be comparing it to drinking liquor. Some people drink stupid high amounts of liquor, some people take stupid amounts of oral AAS/PH. If someone drinks liquor till they black out each day for 8 weeks then I'd be willing to wager they have an increased risk of liver damage over your average Joe. Same thing with methyls, your risk is going to increase the higher the dose and length.

    That being said I've probably read as many threads advocating for the safety of oral AAS/PH lately as I have threads saying that they are extremely bad for you. I'm not saying there is no degree of risk, but I think that it's probably lower than some people believe. Just look at the number of people taking oral AAS/PH compared to the number who have had liver problems. I know a few users in RL who have had no problems as of yet, and I know there are a few or more on these boards as well.
    That is because everything your read on the internet is true!
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn
    That is because everything your read on the internet is true!
    True dat homez
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    Still no proof that these so called support supplements can actually prevent damage to your liver caused by oral anabolic steroids. Just because someone has gone through a cycle with cycle support while taking a harsh oral steroid and their liver blood test results came out fine doesn't prove that the "cycle support" was/is the reason that the liver showed minimal damage or impact from the steroid. That same person may just react that way to that particular steroid. So even if he/she hadn't taken the cycle support product the results would have or could have been the same. The only way to prove it would be to have the same person take the same steroid without the cycle support. Still though there are so many variables that can effect your liver so it is almost impossible to prove.
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    I thought I had liver damage.I actually had galstones due to nolva and running winny clone.Freaking cholesterol...I developed the signs of liver damage.Jaundice,dark urine,and pain in abdomen.I apperntly passed several in the ER and walked out with everything being fine.Weird.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt
    I thought I had liver damage.I actually had galstones due to nolva and running winny clone.Freaking cholesterol...I developed the signs of liver damage.Jaundice,dark urine,and pain in abdomen.I apperntly passed several in the ER and walked out with everything being fine.Weird.
    What's considered dark urine?
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Still no proof that these so called support supplements can actually prevent damage to your liver caused by oral anabolic steroids. Just because someone has gone through a cycle with cycle support while taking a harsh oral steroid and their liver blood test results came out fine doesn't prove that the "cycle support" was/is the reason that the liver showed minimal damage or impact from the steroid. That same person may just react that way to that particular steroid. So even if he/she hadn't taken the cycle support product the results would have or could have been the same. The only way to prove it would be to have the same person take the same steroid without the cycle support. Still though there are so many variables that can effect your liver so it is almost impossible to prove.
    absolutely true. At the same time, outside of some cases like yours, levels even up to 2x top of range are still fine and bounce back within weeks. People prescribed statins or other drugs that have liver impact are generally still prescribed them up to that level, but they get monitored monthly
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone
    Still no proof that these so called support supplements can actually prevent damage to your liver caused by oral anabolic steroids. Just because someone has gone through a cycle with cycle support while taking a harsh oral steroid and their liver blood test results came out fine doesn't prove that the "cycle support" was/is the reason that the liver showed minimal damage or impact from the steroid. That same person may just react that way to that particular steroid. So even if he/she hadn't taken the cycle support product the results would have or could have been the same. The only way to prove it would be to have the same person take the same steroid without the cycle support. Still though there are so many variables that can effect your liver so it is almost impossible to prove.
    True. That's y u see some story of dudes using cycle supps. And still getting f-ed up sides. How much safer is pinning opposed to orals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by murk01 View Post
    True. That's y u see some story of dudes using cycle supps. And still getting f-ed up sides. How much safer is pinning opposed to orals.
    ^This. Curious myself.
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    Much easier on the liver..generaly
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    I remember my cuz still had to use milk thistle with test
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    Quote Originally Posted by murk01 View Post
    I remember my cuz still had to use milk thistle with test
    "had to"? Why? no point to that at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL

    "had to"? Why? no point to that at all.
    Really?.... I have no clue. That's what some one told him. So he did. This was a few years back. Who ever told him to use thistle didnt say anything about pct.
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    Alright, labs are in. Here we go. Keep in mind this was after 30 days of 20mg ed Ultradrol and Cycle Assist. Started Aegis Shield 3 days before cycle end and got these labs 4 days after cycle end. So 7 days on TUDCA. I listed mainly things that are outside range though I included Bilirubin and AST in case anyone was curious. Bolds are my data and ref ranges are included. No GGT test was included.

    Bilirubin .5 0.2-1.2mg/dl
    Alkaline Phosphate 32 40-115U/L
    AST 35 10-40 U/L
    ALT 4.93 .4-4.50 mIU/L

    TSH 4.93 .40-4.50 mIU/L
    RDW 15.5 11.0 - 15.0 %

    Cholesterol Total 260 125-200mg/dl
    HDL 13 > or = 40 mg/dl
    LDL 222 <130 mg/dL
    CHOL/HDLC RATIO 20.0 < = 5.0%

    Estradiaol is 35. IGF, Dihydrotest, Free Test, and Progesterone still say pending. Should have them in a couple days.

    Cholesterol is bad news. Liver values I don't know enough about to speak on them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadSeed
    Alright, labs are in. Here we go. Keep in mind this was after 30 days of 20mg ed Ultradrol and Cycle Assist. Started Aegis Shield 3 days before cycle end and got these labs 4 days after cycle end. So 7 days on TUDCA. I listed mainly things that are outside range though I included Bilirubin and AST in case anyone was curious. Bolds are my data and ref ranges are included. No GGT test was included.

    Bilirubin .5 0.2-1.2mg/dl
    Alkaline Phosphate 32 40-115U/L
    AST 35 10-40 U/L
    ALT 4.93 .4-4.50 mIU/L

    TSH 4.93 .40-4.50 mIU/L
    RDW 15.5 11.0 - 15.0 %

    Cholesterol Total 260 125-200mg/dl
    HDL 13 > or = 40 mg/dl
    LDL 222 <130 mg/dL
    CHOL/HDLC RATIO 20.0 < = 5.0%

    Estradiaol is 35. IGF, Dihydrotest, Free Test, and Progesterone still say pending. Should have them in a couple days.

    Cholesterol is bad news. Liver values I don't know enough about to speak on them.
    Liver results don't look bad at all if I'm reading them correctly.... & yes cholesterol is in the dumper.
    Someone else told me ultradrol was good easy on the liver.... But still doesn't mean to take it lightly, now how will you fix the high lipids?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Liver results don't look bad at all if I'm reading them correctly.... & yes cholesterol is in the dumper.
    Someone else told me ultradrol was good easy on the liver.... But still doesn't mean to take it lightly, now how will you fix the high lipids?
    Good question. No statins for me. Diet, cardio, and time would be my guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    What's considered dark urine?
    Brown.It's back to clear now.
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    cholesterol bounces back reasonably fast by itself, assuming you take in plenty of good fats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL
    cholesterol bounces back reasonably fast by itself, assuming you take in plenty of good fats.
    P nut butter
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    Badseed not to attack you or anything but you should have taken the TUDCA from day 1, this damage would have been prevented. also liver values dont look that bad, im sure you could have continued the cycle, especially if u ran tudca from the start or at least continued it from where you were.
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    Challenge 1: take 2 one ounce shots of tequila 3 times per day equally spaced for 4 weeks. Perform liver testing before during and after.
    Challenge 2: take 1000mg of tylenol 3 times per day equally spaced for 4 weeks. Perform liver testing before during and after.
    Challenge 3: stack Challenge 1 & 2 for 4 weeks. Perform liver testing before during and after.

    Then we can talk about a reasonable comparative liver toxicity and oral steroids.

    Otherwise every last comparative speculation of "is oral steroid XXX more toxic than...?" is just a waste of bandwidth.

    Drink-Up!
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn
    Challenge 1: take 2 one ounce shots of tequila 3 times per day equally spaced for 4 weeks. Perform liver testing before during and after.
    Challenge 2: take 1000mg of tylenol 3 times per day equally spaced for 4 weeks. Perform liver testing before during and after.
    Challenge 3: stack Challenge 1 & 2 for 4 weeks. Perform liver testing before during and after.

    Then we can talk about a reasonable comparative liver toxicity and oral steroids.

    Otherwise every last comparative speculation of "is oral steroid XXX more toxic than...?" is just a waste of bandwidth.

    Drink-Up!
    U first?
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Challenge 1: take 2 one ounce shots of tequila 3 times per day equally spaced for 4 weeks. Perform liver testing before during and after.
    Challenge 2: take 1000mg of tylenol 3 times per day equally spaced for 4 weeks. Perform liver testing before during and after.
    Challenge 3: stack Challenge 1 & 2 for 4 weeks. Perform liver testing before during and after.

    Then we can talk about a reasonable comparative liver toxicity and oral steroids.

    Otherwise every last comparative speculation of "is oral steroid XXX more toxic than...?" is just a waste of bandwidth.

    Drink-Up!
    really challenge 1 is more or less my normal life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1
    TUDCA
    Know any good sources for TUDCA besides Anteus Labs?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drizzie88

    Know any good sources for TUDCA besides Anteus Labs?
    Nope. I paid the $45 price
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    really challenge 1 is more or less my normal life.


    "It takes me at least half-way through the label before I can even make it through the night."
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    What do you more knowledgeable folks think about UDCA treatment for while on cycle--especially if one has elevated liver values (AST / ALT)
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    Quote Originally Posted by demolition
    There was two guys that were suing cell or someone (this was a number of years ago) anyways, i never followed up with the story but they had liver failure or something do to a long cycle and no liver supps. Im really surprised it doesn't happen more often because people just pop it like candy and dont read up on how to cycle the stuff.
    Here is the video link I think you were referring to bro. Something tells me the retards in the video knew nothing about running a cycle lol!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGzab...e_gdata_player
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    Got the rest of the labs. IGF took a big hit and Test was 760. Usually over 1100 from the TRT.

    As a side note: Got a 90ct sealed Ultra with 30 extra caps in an open bottle and one Aegis bottle sealed with prob 60-80 extra caps in an open bottle for sale. PM me if interested.
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