Anyone ever suffered serious liver damage?

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  1. nah man he didnt die.. i meant to say he got his liver checked out.. i guess it was at a stage 4/5 and 5 is liver failure.. but like i said their family friend / doctor specializes in crazy herbal **** and she actually had him on some medicated droplets (taken orally) to help repair his liver...


  2. Take a look at this M-Drol Video News Clip .. Link ---:> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGzabtUS-M4

    They were taking two methylated compounds at the same time and suffered serious liver damage.
    “Just be advised that the above information posted is not medical advice and should only be used for fun and entertainment.”

  3. Quote Originally Posted by middleageguy
    Take a look at this M-Drol Video News Clip .. Link ---:> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGzabtUS-M4

    They were taking two methylated compounds at the same time and suffered serious liver damage.
    Ive seen that clip.
    They ran like 2 bottles back to back with no liver support or PCT!!!
    Think it was like 60 days!
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    It is really funny how people like to perpetuate the myth that "support sups" will protect them and prevent any liver damage.
    Something like NAC... no, it won't do as much as people seem to think.
    TUDCA on the other hand... yes it's very good. Can be used to protect or even treat.

  5. dude that was the mdrol my buddy ran 3x.. and im pretty sure he diid it once before his liver was ****ed, and has ran it twice since his liver was fixed..

  6. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone
    It is really funny how people like to perpetuate the myth that "support sups" will protect them and prevent any liver damage.
    This^

  7. Been off for 48 hours now and running TUDCA at 750mg/day. Symptoms have subsided and appetite has returned. Not taking any chances though, Doc appt on Wed morning for bloods - ealiest I can get in. I'll post labs when they come through.
    "If you weren't there for my struggle, don't expect to be there for my success."

  8. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    It is really funny how people like to perpetuate the myth that "support sups" will protect them and prevent any liver damage.
    Seriously. After reading, the message in my mind was exactly this. The message should be more like "methyls are still risky as fock, but taking these are better than NOT taking them. Do yourself a favor and, if you're dead set on running ph/aas, then go find some real gear."
    "If you weren't there for my struggle, don't expect to be there for my success."

  9. Quote Originally Posted by BadSeed
    Been off for 48 hours now and running TUDCA at 750mg/day. Symptoms have subsided and appetite has returned. Not taking any chances though, Doc appt on Wed morning for bloods - ealiest I can get in. I'll post labs when they come through.
    Glad you're feeling better man.
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  10. I just got my blood results back from a month ago. Ast - 46 (1-35) and alt - 72 (30-65) is this something to worry about?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Mafesto31 View Post
    I just got my blood results back from a month ago. Ast - 46 (1-35) and alt - 72 (30-65) is this something to worry about?
    That isn't too bad. Do yourself a favor...
    Lay off the harsh supps. Don't touch alcohol and get some liver support

    Your values aren't so high I would freak out... But they are obv higher than they should be.
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by BadSeed View Post
    Been off for 48 hours now and running TUDCA at 750mg/day. Symptoms have subsided and appetite has returned. Not taking any chances though, Doc appt on Wed morning for bloods - ealiest I can get in. I'll post labs when they come through.
    O
    Hope all goes well
    Please post labs
    Stay healthy !
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by Mafesto31
    I just got my blood results back from a month ago. Ast - 46 (1-35) and alt - 72 (30-65) is this something to worry about?
    What were u taking for a PH and what support sup?
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  14. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafesto31 View Post
    I just got my blood results back from a month ago. Ast - 46 (1-35) and alt - 72 (30-65) is this something to worry about?
    most doctors would let you still use prescription meds that cause liver issues at those #s. hopefully that was on or just after an oral cycle though, if its not then it could be a health issue.
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1

    What were u taking for a PH and what support sup?
    Ran androhard in Dec-Jan w no support. This test was march 21st. I have a few (sometimes too many) beers 1 night a week on average. Diet is clean and I drink a lot of water. I was planning on starting a test/dbol cycle soon but...

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Mafesto31

    Ran androhard in Dec-Jan w no support. This test was march 21st. I have a few (sometimes too many) beers 1 night a week on average. Diet is clean and I drink a lot of water. I was planning on starting a test/dbol cycle soon but...
    Don't think AndroHard would do that to your liver.

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  17. @MikeG313 were you cycling superdrol when that happened to you?

  18. my buddy only ran nolvadex xt for his pct... is that not enough? he didnt seem to have that bad of suppression, but then again, he did lose some gains.. but THEN AGAIN, its hard to tell cause he got so retartedly bloated on the mdrol, he had to become unbloated after.

  19. Dam, Maybe I wont run some super dmz this summer... Ill just add tren ace instead. Although I dont think its great for the liver either

  20. Quote Originally Posted by jpg0923
    @MikeG313 were you cycling superdrol when that happened to you?
    Yes I was. It was my second and last sd cycle. The first one went well so six months later I ran the second and that happened. Sometimes you're lucky sometimes you're not.

  21. Is there any shred of evidence that liver supps (besides tudca) do anything at all...i mean I've never seen a liver blood panel look "good" after a methyl cycle. I'm thinking that the only way to be"safe" is use of tudca or dropping doses back down to sane dosing patterns that many have seem to abandoned "cause I got liv 52 bro, it's ayruvedic, and studied"

  22. Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313 View Post
    Yes I was. It was my second and last sd cycle. The first one went well so six months later I ran the second and that happened. Sometimes you're lucky sometimes you're not.
    Thats crazy that it was the same compound. I ran Ultra stacked w Trenazone a few months back and had ZERO issues. Best cycle ever, This time, Ultra solo does me in. Go figure.
    "If you weren't there for my struggle, don't expect to be there for my success."
  23. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by GodofWine View Post
    Is there any shred of evidence that liver supps (besides tudca) do anything at all...i mean I've never seen a liver blood panel look "good" after a methyl cycle. I'm thinking that the only way to be"safe" is use of tudca or dropping doses back down to sane dosing patterns that many have seem to abandoned "cause I got liv 52 bro, it's ayruvedic, and studied"
    They do exist.

    Up to 50mg/d with only 800mg NAC and 600mg ALA.

    You should pay more concern to lipids IMHO.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    You should pay more concern to lipids IMHO.
    I am going to have a thread on this up shortly.. not sure how much of an increased risk actually come from androgen use despite the changes in lipid profiles. Seems to be fairly unclear what these changes truly represent
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  25. Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313

    Yes I was. It was my second and last sd cycle. The first one went well so six months later I ran the second and that happened. Sometimes you're lucky sometimes you're not.
    Fuk. I'm gearing up for a suprdrol cycle. U hear so many mixed reveiws about this...kinda makes me think about backing down and staying natty. I remember when u posted about ur heart attack hope all is good now g
    Stress is #1 killing. Above all else
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  26. TUDCA
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  27. Quote Originally Posted by murk01

    Fuk. I'm gearing up for a suprdrol cycle. U hear so many mixed reveiws about this...kinda makes me think about backing down and staying natty. I remember when u posted about ur heart attack hope all is good now g
    Stress is #1 killing. Above all else
    Doing better now. I'm not a fan of orals but if I didn't have that experience then I'd most likely still run them. Just be careful as you can and take all the precautions. Risks are there but so are rewards. It's just luck sometimes what ya get but I'd say the odds are in your favor just not %100

  28. No, never suffered serious liver damage. I'm not a dumbass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I am going to have a thread on this up shortly.. not sure how much of an increased risk actually come from androgen use despite the changes in lipid profiles. Seems to be fairly unclear what these changes truly represent
    IMHO any adverse liver function that may take place in some will do so with Tylenol, Rx, alcohol, excercise and a host of other variables, that for the verty most part, once the substance is removed, usually return to healthy baseline values rather rapidly. The liver is quite resilient in that capacilty. Using precautionary protective anti-oxidant supplements tends to be effective as those liver values clearly display.

    On the otherhand the precautionary measures taken by most tend not to be as protective to lipids. In regard to lipids I would be more concerned because there can tend to be a greater delay in return to healthy normal range of lipid values, if at all, in some users. IMHO lipids produce greater risk to overall health.
    We live in a time where our planet suffers from two epidemics simultaneously - starvation and obesity.

    Look at all these little kids taking care of the music biz, don't their business take good care of me.

    I have the fire, I have the force, I have the power to make my evil take it's course.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    I'm not a dumbass.
    Not sure if srs? Haha just kidding, but I am sure you have looked into the matter do you have any other thoughts on oral aas and liver damage?

  31. Can someone explain to me about lipids? Or link me, also don't know what TUDCA is, I'm about to start first cycle (helladrol) which is supposed to be mild but I do have concerns about liver damage. Also though I rarely drink alcohol anymore, maybe one or two drinks every month or two.
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  32. Quote Originally Posted by SuperPro
    Can someone explain to me about lipids? Or link me, also don't know what TUDCA is, I'm about to start first cycle (helladrol) which is supposed to be mild but I do have concerns about liver damage. Also though I rarely drink alcohol anymore, maybe one or two drinks every month or two.
    There's some threads around this board on TUDCA.
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  33. Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1

    There's some threads around this board on TUDCA.
    Yeah I'm going through some but so far only finding stuff about how to dose it or how it compares to other things.
    "Lifting and Game of Thrones share the same calendar, there's only two seasons: cutting and bulking. And guess what? Winter's comin' so it's time to bulk up!"
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  34. Maybe someone can chime in for me, but all I'm running is my cycle and TUDCA, & baby chewable aspirin, I actually put a hold on Organ Shield (which has NAC, Milk Thistle) cause I think I was getting more head aches from Organ Shield.

    So TUDCA is effective enough by itself correct?
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  35. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPro View Post
    Can someone explain to me about lipids? Or link me, also don't know what TUDCA is, I'm about to start first cycle (helladrol) which is supposed to be mild but I do have concerns about liver damage. Also though I rarely drink alcohol anymore, maybe one or two drinks every month or two.
    lipids is cholesterol levels. Most orals drop your hdl significantly while raising your LDL. long term leads to arterial stiffening, plaque, etc
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  36. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    IMHO any adverse liver function that may take place in some will do so with Tylenol, Rx, alcohol, excercise and a host of other variables, that for the verty most part, once the substance is removed, usually return to healthy baseline values rather rapidly. The liver is quite resilient in that capacilty. Using precautionary protective anti-oxidant supplements tends to be effective as those liver values clearly display.
    I agree completely but overall I think the hepatotoxicity from oral steroids have been exaggerated as simply using AST/ALT ratios (which is what most use to gauge) can be misleading

    Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: is it overstated?


    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    On the otherhand the precautionary measures taken by most tend not to be as protective to lipids. In regard to lipids I would be more concerned because there can tend to be a greater delay in return to healthy normal range of lipid values, if at all, in some users. IMHO lipids produce greater risk to overall health.
    There is no doubt that androgens have a significant effect on our lipids however these androgen induced declines in HDL does not automatically have to be assumed to be proatherogenic but instead may be the result of accelerated reverse cholesterol transport and not necessarily equal an increased CVD risk.

    Androgens increase the activity of hepatic triglyceride lipase (HTGL) (PMID:4033402) and it is believed that HTGL activity is pretty protective against CVD risk (PMID:7853704) which then ask the question, does the reduced amount of HDL particles one experiences as a result from androgen use actually lead to an increased CVD risk considering the protective activity of some of the HDL fractions are not reduced?
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  37. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh

    I agree completely but overall I think the hepatotoxicity from oral steroids have been exaggerated as simply using AST/ALT ratios (which is what most use to gauge) can be misleading

    Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: is it overstated?

    There is no doubt that androgens have a significant effect on our lipids however these androgen induced declines in HDL does not automatically have to be assumed to be proatherogenic but instead may be the result of accelerated reverse cholesterol transport and not necessarily equal an increased CVD risk.

    Androgens increase the activity of hepatic triglyceride lipase (HTGL) (PMID:4033402) and it is believed that HTGL activity is pretty protective against CVD risk (PMID:7853704) which then ask the question, does the reduced amount of HDL particles one experiences as a result from androgen use actually lead to an increased CVD risk considering the protective activity of some of the HDL fractions are not reduced?
    I need to know what this means in laymans terms, am I too concerned with HDL reduction

  38. Quote Originally Posted by jaydollars View Post
    I need to know what this means in laymans terms, am I too concerned with HDL reduction
    No you arent, the take away wasnt to suggest that we should make light of HDL reductions as they are definitely negatively correlated with CVD and HDL does have a protective effect, rather that the implication this androgen induced reduction has isnt as clear as it seems.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  39. Quote Originally Posted by SPS View Post
    but I am sure you have looked into the matter do you have any other thoughts on oral aas and liver damage?
    I have looked into it.

    I think a lot of factors will come into play here, with the biggest one being genetics.

    people dont generally tend to live healthy lifestyles, then they want to go and use steroids, add in genetic factors, and you could have a problem.

    I dont really have any other thoughts on the subject.
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  40. Any ideas on how to keep HDL up while on cycle?
  

  
 

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