Test/Deca/IGF or Test/Eq/IGF?

[smash1904]

Alright I'm looking at getting back on cycle 4-6 weeks from now(3/5, 3/12, 3/19, or 3/26 at the very latest). This will be my 2nd aas cycle, first being Test(switched which kind a few times) +-500/week for around 16 weeks with Dbol kickstart. I put on about 30 lbs, but have lost about 10 of that - some of which was lost being sick at the end of the cycle. Will be getting bloodwork before I start to make sure hormones are in check, but the only side I could tell was acne - which I'm still fighting back. Might need accutane therapy, I think Im just prone to it.

So the two cycles Im considering are:

1-3 Test P 350mg
2-11 Test E 300mg
1-10 Deca 250
1-4 IGF LR3 M/W/F 40mcg bilaterally
7-10 IGF LR3 LR3 M/W/F 40mcg bilaterally
13-16 IGF LR3 LR3 M/W/F 40mcg bilaterally

or

1-3 Test P 350mg
1-16/20/24 Test E 250mg
1-15/19/23 Eq 400-600
1-4 IGF LR3 M/W/F 40mcg bilaterally
7-10 IGF LR3 M/W/F 40mcg bilaterally
13-16 IGF LR3 M/W/F 40mcg bilaterally
19-22 IGF LR3 M/W/F 40mcg bilaterally
25-28 IGF LR3 M/W/F 40mcg bilaterally
(not sure how long I want to run this, or if I'm prepared for 6 months - I think 4.5 months would be fine)

HCG M/F 250mcg
Formastanzol on hand
GHRP 100mcg x2/day
Trying to find a beta agonist if I go with Deca
Fish Oil
Multi

PCT
Nolva 20/20/20/20 maybe 40/20/20/20/20/20
Formastanzol
DAA
GHRP 100mcg x2/day
IGF LR3 M/W/F 40mcg bilaterally

IGF is preworkout.

Starting weight is low 180s, +-10% bf, looking to hit 205, but my goals are mostly strength oriented. I want to add 100+ lbs to my Bench and Deadlift, and I'm looking to strengthen my joints - so I'm leaning towards the Deca. And yes I want to keep the dose low.

Any thoughts?

 

[smash1904]

Bump

 

[smash1904]

I guess the other cycle I'm considering is:

1-6 Test Prop 350/437.5mg -100-125 eod
1-4 IGF LR3 40mcg M/W/F
7-10 IGF LR3 40mcg M/W/F 7-10 Nolva 20/20/20/20
7-12 DAA
7-12 Formastanzol
1-12 GHRP 100mcg morning and night

6 weeks on 6 weeks off, repeat. Maybe with some dbol too.

 

[Distilled Water]

You trying to stay lean through the cycle? More so keep a leaner look I guess. The Deca will bloat you bad, if you're anal about staying lean then i'd stear clear of it. I know a guy who gained a lot of strength with 500 test and 500 EQ for 12 weeks, bench went from bout 375 to 415, squat from 510 to 585. I don't know about his dead lift. Entire thing with no kick starter

Hope that helps some

 

[smash1904]

You trying to stay lean through the cycle? More so keep a leaner look I guess. The Deca will bloat you bad, if you're anal about staying lean then i'd stear clear of it. I know a guy who gained a lot of strength with 500 test and 500 EQ for 12 weeks, bench went from bout 375 to 415, squat from 510 to 585. I don't know about his dead lift. Entire thing with no kick starter

Hope that helps some

Well I'm hoping that at 250-300mg deca/week that it would give good strength and size without getting too crazy on the bloat and sides - aka why I'm keeping the dose low on the test too. Some bloat is ok, but acne upsets me.

And ya I've heard good things about Eq, that even at 600mg I could expect little to no sides. The test is just to keep me feeling normal. And I hear Eq gets awesome at about 6 weeks, and keeps getting better tell like week 16 when it gets really sweet.

Id also be running IGF, which is pretty sick on its own...

 

[Distilled Water]

I think you'd still hold a good bit of water. I'd go with the test/eq

 

[Distilled Water]

Also, why IGF preworkout? Is it LR3 or the DES?

 

[smash1904]

I think you'd still hold a good bit of water. I'd go with the test/eq

This isn't a diet or estrogen control thing? No way around it? Cause I've read its good for cutting or bulking, and some people get bloat, gyno and deca dick, some don't... I'm really interested in it being good for joints.

 

[smash1904]

Also, why IGF preworkout? Is it LR3 or the DES?

It's LR3, and I read up on pre or post workout, or first thing in the morning or before bed, daily or eod, and different dosage protocols. After reading what everyone said I feel most comfortable with 4 weeks on M/W/F 40mcg bilateraly 2 weeks off. I know it goes systemic and has like a 20 hour halflife, and once the receptor is activated it has a 72 hour of action, but I'm hoping I can get most of it into worked muscles that I'm about to work - so if there is a risk of gh gut I can minimize that. And since I do full body M/W/F that works out best, I'm not using it during times that it isn't needed, and will maximize effectiveness.

It is working pretty well right now, and I want to use it on cycle and during pct as well.

 

[Distilled Water]

This isn't a diet or estrogen control thing? No way around it? Cause I've read its good for cutting or bulking, and some people get bloat, gyno and deca dick, some don't... I'm really interested in it being good for joints.

The joint effectiveness is second to none. I don't want to scare you out of it by any means, just wanted to make you aware 200-300mg still brings on some added bloat, unlike EQ.

It's LR3, and I read up on pre or post workout, or first thing in the morning or before bed, daily or eod, and different dosage protocols. After reading what everyone said I feel most comfortable with 4 weeks on M/W/F 40mcg bilateraly 2 weeks off. I know it goes systemic and has like a 20 hour halflife, and once the receptor is activated it has a 72 hour of action, but I'm hoping I can get most of it into worked muscles that I'm about to work - so if there is a risk of gh gut I can minimize that. And since I do full body M/W/F that works out best, I'm not using it during times that it isn't needed, and will maximize effectiveness.

It is working pretty well right now, and I want to use it on cycle and during pct as well.

Yeah I read up some also, I know it's kind of a new method of thought. I'm old school with a lot of stuff but wouldn't be against trying it, it makes sense.

I don't know if you've used it in PCT before but it makes stuff waaaay better!

 

[smash1904]

The joint effectiveness is second to none. I don't want to scare you out of it by any means, just wanted to make you aware 200-300mg still brings on some added bloat, unlike EQ.

But the bloat makes you grow faster, and less prone to injury, and I am looking to add a lot of weight to my lifts and gain 25 lbs. And they are both said to be quality gains.

Would the bloat be comparable at 250 deca and 300 test to 400 sustanon or 500 test e without an ai?

Yeah I read up some also, I know it's kind of a new method of thought. I'm old school with a lot of stuff but wouldn't be against trying it, it makes sense.

I don't know if you've used it in PCT before but it makes stuff waaaay better!

Ya it sounds like an effective, safe way of running it, and its the way I'm most comfortable with. Plus 1mg lasts 8 weeks that way, so its much nicer on the wallet

Will be running before during and after, it sounds great for pct.

 

[smash1904]

I have x2 deca 250 10ml, x2 test e 250 10ml, x1 test p 250 10ml, 3mg IGF LR3, and nolva. I also have 15mg ghrp(will be getting more soon), 500g DAA, 1.5 bottle of formastanzol.

 

[Distilled Water]

But the bloat makes you grow faster, and less prone to injury, and I am looking to add a lot of weight to my lifts and gain 25 lbs. And they are both said to be quality gains.

Would the bloat be comparable at 250 deca and 300 test to 400 sustanon or 500 test e without an ai?

He said slightly more than TE solo @500mg. His face was the worst as far as holding water. He was @500mg while using the Deca

 

[smash1904]

He said slightly more than TE solo @500mg. His face was the worst as far as holding water. He was @500mg while using the Deca

He was at 500mg deca? Cause I'm running 250/300... But ya thats where I get water retention too, like my eyes get puffy n stuff.

 

[Distilled Water]

He was at 500mg deca? Cause I'm running 250/300... But ya thats where I get water retention too, like my eyes get puffy n stuff.

Sorry I meant the test was at 500 deca was 200 or 250

 

[smash1904]

Sorry I meant the test was at 500 deca was 200 or 250

So if I'm down in the range of 200-250mg deca and 250-300mg test, I could expect a little worse bloat than test solo 500mg..?

I have decided to go with the deca/test, I really want to try it. If I like it I'll run it again, if I don't I'll move onto eq.

Now I just need to figure out dosage and timeline, as well as a couple other things:

1) 200 deca/250 test - 200 deca/300 test - 250 deca/300 test - 250 deca/350 test - 300 deca/350 test
Bold being the one I'm leaning towards. Ive read you should run test double, but then I've read trt dosage has worked too, I really dont know what to believe, cause it kind of sounds like if your going to have a problem, your going to regardless. I just really feel like I should try and keep the dosage on the low end to feel it out and see how it treats me.

2)
1-10 Deca
1-12 Test E
1-2 Test P 350mg
1-4 IGF
7-10 IGF
13-16 IGF
1-12 HCG 250mcg M/F
13-16 Toremifene 60/60/60/60
13-18 DAA
13-18 Formastanzol
Should I maybe run the deca longer - like 12-14 weeks? With the lower doses will I need an ai on cycle?

3) The more I read about deca, the more it kinda scares me... Permanent loss of libido, deca dick, depression - are these common? Is the hcg and test really going to help? Is it likely Im going to need to use caber(which I'm having trouble finding) and B6? Should I be confident that caber will fix everything, or am I going to need cialis?

 

[smash1904]

Looks like I'm going to try the liquid prami route, see how that treats me. I heard its stronger than caber, but needs to be taken daily, and at lower doses has less sides than caber. Prami just seems a lot cheaper and easier to get, I can't find a good caber source.

 

[wheeliegsxr]

look up eq its about twice as strong as deca and you wont bloat at all its very dry gains, ima big fan. i always ran deca till my dude introduced me to eq, im very happy with the strength gains and the way i look.

 

[smash1904]

look up eq its about twice as strong as deca and you wont bloat at all its very dry gains, ima big fan. i always ran deca till my dude introduced me to eq, im very happy with the strength gains and the way i look.

Well the deca sort of fell into my lap, I basically got it for free. I'm running 200mg deca for 12 weeks and 300mg test for 13 - 14.5 weeks total. If I like it, might leave it the same or bump up the dosage next cycle. If not I'm going to try 400mg Eq 200mg test for 4-6 months. May bump up the dosage a little bit mid cycle to like 500/250 or 500/300, but I really want to get a feel for it at a lower dosage.

To give a bit more explanation on my dosage:

Bodybuilding Health & Fitness Forum - Iron for Life - Cycle advice (comments on first cycles, doses, eating, etc.)

Bodybuilding Health & Fitness Forum - Iron for Life - Low dose cycles--Truth and myth.

I had great results on 500mg test/week, I want to keep total androgens around 500-600mg. If thats all I need why push it up?