First SD cycle. Think I got it

[jblift]

Stats
Age: 21
Height: 6’3”
Weight: 220 lbs
Bench: 275 x 6
Squat: 315 x 6
Deadlift: 295 x 6
History: I’ve been lifting on and off since eighth grade, and have been really serious the last 4 years. Lived a pretty athletic lifestyle; played basketball in high school and rugby in college. Past ph use consisted of an hdrol cycle for a nice recomp and it worked well.
Diet: Aiming for 4700 – 5000 calories a day while trying to maintain at least 2 grams of protein per body pound. A 40/30/30 diet.
Workout:

Monday- Chest & Back
Flat Bench Press	Warmup	Failure x 6	Dropset for ten reps
Incline Bench (Alt between BB & DB each week)	Warmup	Failure x 6	Dropset for ten reps
Wide-Grip Lat Pull downs	4x12
T-Bar Rows	4x12	Dropset
Hyperextension	5x20
Tuesday - Full Body
Clean	Failure x 6
Squats	Failure x 6
Deadlift	Failure x 6
Railroad Leg Press
Wednesday - Arms (Tentative)
Seated DB Wrist Curl-S.S-Seated BB Reverse Curl	2x15-20
C-Grip Bench-S.S-Tricep Pulldown	2x15-20
Supinated Incline Bicep Curls -SS- Reverse Grip Curl	2x15-20
Thursday - Circuit Training
Overhead Lunge	1x12 each side
Explosive Wood Chop	1x8 each side
Superman	1x12
Repeat the above 3 Times
DB Snatch	4x3 each side
Pitcher Squats	4x5 each side
Front Squat	4x4
Squat	4x6
DB Press On Swiss Ball-SS-Hamstring Curls	4x4-4x12
DB Rotational Shrug	4x8
Push pull circuit	4xFailure

So I have been deciding on whether or not to do a superdrol cycle, which the clone I’d us would be CL’s Mdrol.
Supports:
AI Life Support – Will begin 2 weeks prior to cycle.
Animal Flex – weeks 1-10
Grape Seed Extract – weeks 1-10
LiverCare – weeks 1-10
Taurine (don’t have it on hand, but will get it in case of back pumps)
SD/MDrol
20/30/30/30
PCT:
Nolvadex – 40/30/20/10
AI PC Support
Supress-C

 

[Srt4Muscle]

what is the point of this thread, i missed something? are you asking a question or showing a start of a log? what are your goals, i new to the site just browsing around...

 

[jblift]

To see what people think about the set up and if they had any suggestions. If you looked at my post thoroughly, you'd notice my calorie intake is rather high, so I'm aiming to add mass.

 

[Srt4Muscle]

dammit i deleted my whole response, lol yep your right, see the calorie intake. do you actually have a plan for food i found it very hard to intake that many calories of good food. maybe 3500 of solid health calories is better than 5000 that have some garabage, ya know. just a thought. also check out "unreals guide to superdrol" one thing i found interesting he said was the faster the gains come the faster they leave. check it out let me know what you think, im just starting a sd/epi cycle with some extras, but im cutting.

 

[Eric Potratz]

Methylated compounds like sd are polycythemic. they will thicken your blood and drop your cardiovascular stamina by inhibiting oxygen delivery. Of course methyls increase red blood cells, but the blood thickening effect always seems to counter the increased RBC. I never recommend methyls for athletes.

If you just trying to get swole in the gym on the cheap I guess its cool

-eric

 

[Srt4Muscle]

Methylated compounds like sd are polycythemic. they will thicken your blood and drop your cardiovascular stamina by inhibiting oxygen delivery. Of course methyls increase red blood cells, but the blood thickening effect always seems to counter the increased RBC. I never recommend methyls for athletes.

If you just trying to get swole in the gym on the cheap I guess its cool

-eric

wow im impressed for real, and i read some of your other posts, holly crap. good information!!!

 

[jblift]

Thanks fellas

 

[ReyMan]

No offense but you need to work on your squat and dead lift a lot. Unless you have a fake leg or something

 

[TestEinstein]

I wouldn't do that arm workout but to each their own. I superset arms but with a bicep/tricep, bicep/tricep pattern instead of bi/bi, tri/tri, and I would never do forearms before biceps unless I wasn't looking for much upper arm hypertrophy. I would also add more volume for the arms than six sets each for biceps and triceps.

As for the power workout on day 2, nice idea, but why are you doing 6 sets to failure of squats 48 hours before your 19 sets of leg training on circuit day?

If you end up being concerned about a reduction in aerobic capacity due to the polycythemic effect, do some research on the time elapsed to cause that phenomena. I know that the erythropoetic effect takes awhile due to the time it takes the RBCs to actually be produced; a noticeable aerobic performance deficit might not manifest itself inside of the 4 active weeks on SD; on the other hand it might happen quickly since fluid balancing can be modulated somewhat more quickly, and then the erythropoesis would have to catch up to get you to a more normal aerobic performance level.

Last thing: Don't know if you mean the 40C/30P/30F "Zone Diet" or 40P/30C/30F diet a lot of guys use on bulking cycles. It it's the latter, just make sure you aren't limiting carbs at all to get to that ratio...it's more of a template and carbs can be very anabolic, esp post-workout, when you're on a cycle.

Best of luck, bro. Don't forget to get a GOOD warm-up on bench. Nothing derails a cycle like a rotator cuff strain.

TE

 

[ripped_one]

Eric, higher crit always equals higher oxygen carrying capacity until you get somewhere in the 60-62% range due to thick blood. High androgen levels, in and of itself, can responsible for the decreased cardiovascular capacity seen when running methyls or even high dose injectables like test.

If you want to get specific, SD is particularly bad on cardio because it causes water retention, high blood pressure, and kills the livers ability to function correctly, drastically decreasing aerobic capacity. Basically, the mitohondria don't get fed properly, and you go anaerobic even at low effort.

Also, if you go from 180 lb to 200 lb, thats over a 10% drop in vo2 max right there. Couple that with a drop in absolute vo2 max capacity, and a liver that can't supply energy fast enough, and you get poor cardio performance. It has absolutely nothing to do with polycythemia or thick blood.

 

[MDiocre]

I know we're talking about erythro and RBCs and aspirin inhibits platelets, but.... Could aspirin help with the hyperviscosity caused by AAS? Just a thought that crossed my mind.

 

[ripped_one]

I know we're talking about erythro and RBCs and aspirin inhibits platelets, but.... Could aspirin help with the hyperviscosity caused by AAS? Just a thought that crossed my mind.

Yes, aspirin will work for decreasing viscosity, though if you are under ~52% crit, viscosity shouldn't be an issue unless you are very dehydrated.

The folks that NEED aspirin, are the ones that run 55-60% crits all the time (guys that use EPO). Once you get that high, the chance of clots goes way up.

To also make my point about high crit / thick blood and performance issues, MANY cyclists were popped for running 60% (or more) crits in the grand tours in the 80's and 90's. Bjarne Riis was called 'Mr 60%' at his peak. On one of the big mountain stages he won at the TdF, he was at 62% crit!!

The only way high hematocrit is going to have a negative effect on oxygen carrying capacity is if it's to the point where BP is too high or you are dead. End of story.

 

[Marcinator]

No offense but you need to work on your squat and dead lift a lot. Unless you have a fake leg or something

315lbs @ 6 reps is weak? Man I really suck then...

 

[MDiocre]

Yes, aspirin will work for decreasing viscosity, though if you are under ~52% crit, viscosity shouldn't be an issue unless you are very dehydrated.

The folks that NEED aspirin, are the ones that run 55-60% crits all the time (guys that use EPO). Once you get that high, the chance of clots goes way up.

To also make my point about high crit / thick blood and performance issues, MANY cyclists were popped for running 60% (or more) crits in the grand tours in the 80's and 90's. Bjarne Riis was called 'Mr 60%' at his peak. On one of the big mountain stages he won at the TdF, he was at 62% crit!!

The only way high hematocrit is going to have a negative effect on oxygen carrying capacity is if it's to the point where BP is too high or you are dead. End of story.

Interesting... Thanks.

 

[abformulations]

Does this happen only with SD? Or all aas?

 

[gaijininjapan]

either only SD or all methyls.

To OP,
have you used SD before? if not, start with 10/20/20/20 or 10/20/20/30 You don't need that much, and you don't know how prone to the SD sides you'll be. everything kicks in in the 2nd week. With SD, more is not better, there's a point where all the sides will kick in and it'll be counterproductive. In addition, I hope your Nolvadex is the SERM, tamoxifen. As for Taurine, that stuff is cheap, ust get the NOW powder form and mix it w/ your morning shake.

 

[ripped_one]

It happens with all steroids to some extent, and not just methyls. 1,4ad, which is mild, increases rbcs pretty well. Injectables like test and eq do too. Anadrol does it really well. Methylation isn't the culprit.

 

[TestEinstein]

It was more the differential between BP and SQ/DL. When you're benching close to what you're squatting it usually means you haven't exploited your full ability in the lower body lifts, unless you are very hampered in those areas due to genetic predisposition or height. Usually, though, people prioritize upper body disproportionately.

 

[TestEinstein]

When you guys are talking about aspirin are you meaning the 81 mg/day regimin? I know that at the same time platelet proteins are being changed by aspirin the prostaglandin synthesis is being inhibited, but I don't know where on the dose-dependency curve it becomes significant for hypertrophic inhibition.

 

[ReyMan]

315lbs @ 6 reps is weak? Man I really suck then...

Then I guess you do suck. I was repping 315x10 in highschool. By the way look at his bench. A well rounded athlete should squat almost 100lbs above their bench. You should consider any sort of steroids at your stats

 

[jblift]

I guess Reyman is just a freak of nature. Don't criticize my lifts, we're all friends here. 315lbs for 6 reps while in perfect form is good. I emphasize form on every lift. I've had stretched ligaments in my right knee from an injury and don't plan on exceeding the weight on lower body compound lifts anytime soon.
@TestEinstein...I suppose I mislead you. I meant that I work up to a 6 rep max.
@GaijininJapan..Thanks man, I will do that. Did research and that sounds like the best bet

 

[ReyMan]

I guess Reyman is just a freak of nature. Don't criticize my lifts, we're all friends here. 315lbs for 6 reps while in perfect form is good. I emphasize form on every lift. I've had stretched ligaments in my right knee from an injury and don't plan on exceeding the weight on lower body compound lifts anytime soon.
@TestEinstein...I suppose I mislead you. I meant that I work up to a 6 rep max.
@GaijininJapan..Thanks man, I will do that. Did research and that sounds like the best bet

nope, just a regular guy, yeah we're all friends here and we constructively criticize. I wasn't trying to be mean in my first reply but you do need to work on your squat, unless you want to be a benchpress warrior.

 

[gaijininjapan]

BTW, your deadlift should be higher than your squat, unless you're not squatting at least to parallel or rolling onto the balls of your feet and using your back to get out of the hole... I never understand how someone can have a squat that's much higher than their DL

 

[ReyMan]

BTW, your deadlift should be higher than your squat, unless you're not squatting at least to parallel or rolling onto the balls of your feet and using your back to get out of the hole... I never understand how someone can have a squat that's much higher than their DL

exactly! reps!

 

[TestEinstein]

6'3" with history of knee ailments, I wouldn't push it beyond what you think you can handle without injury. You know what level of intensity you're working at; ultimately you're the only one you have to answer to.

I get what you're saying now on the reps... up to a 6RM is different than what I thought you were talking about. I'm still a little curious about the routine itself...do you workout as a part of a team sport exercise program? The reason I ask is a lot of sports do a power day earlier in the week and a circuit routine 2 days later to prep for Saturday meets/games. If it isn't and you have some flexibility in there, I love power upright rows and push-presses for that mutant gorilla upper body look. Doing them after cleans can really punish the traps/delts. I bring it up because you don't really have much in the way of dedicated shoulder exercises. But they are less total-body than the others, so take it for what it's worth. Just a thought bro.

 

[jblift]

Yeah, I feel ya Test..I was actually thinking about incorporating more shoulders into my workout. If I feel like I need a pump in any body part on the the weekends, I will do some auxiliary lifts and that's when I will do more shoulders. But definitely putting more shoulder sets into my main 4 day routine. Thanks

 

[MattPorter]

Jblift,

According to your training regimen, I am assuming your an athlete and are training for something involving power output, agility and force? Circuit training on major bog movements plus added segregated work in between that is what I am reading from your layout.

OR

Are you simply trying to put on raw size from this regimen. Also eating 5000 cals in whole foods (even shakes included) is VERY tough on an ongoing basis. Have you done this type of eating consistently before? I find that people underestimate the true reality of eating that many calories on a day to day basis. I have some ideas on nutrition for different goals if you are interested?

Also SD -- I tried in 2005 by Anabolic Xtreme and I only "lasted" 2 weeks before I threw in the towel. Instant lethargy, BP increase, cardio-respiratory decrease, suppressed appetite and delayed onset gyno. (Very similar to original M1T I tried by Gaspari.
Of course everyone reacts differently, but I would try to steer clear of such a compound and find another option, AndroBulk, androMass , Gonadiene, Dienelone etc.....

If you are dead set on the effectiveness and low cost, take every precaution possible to seek out keeping health in check.

Hawthorne berry, liver protectants are no brainers....

 

[jblift]

I am aiming for raw size. I haven't ate 5000 clean calories before, however I did 4000 and figured I could throw in a weight gainer of some sort to accomplish the calorie intake. I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on nutrition for putting on size and also nutrition for leaning up for that summer time lean look. I was looking into Andromass for awhile, however it isn't sold in the states

 

[gaijininjapan]

I was looking into Andromass for awhile, however it isn't sold in the states

What country are you from? AndroMass is manufactured by Primordial Performance, located in the U.S., they're a sponsor on this board, and you can ask any of the numerous reps about info.

 

[ZX14 Boyz]

Superdrol is my favorite compound and it actually gives you dry/lean gains.

 

[MattPorter]

I am aiming for raw size. I haven't ate 5000 clean calories before, however I did 4000 and figured I could throw in a weight gainer of some sort to accomplish the calorie intake. I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on nutrition for putting on size and also nutrition for leaning up for that summer time lean look. I was looking into Andromass for awhile, however it isn't sold in the states

My thoughts on mass gain is this:

Eat when hungry. Never force feed. You will get to the point where you aren't hungry, but eating is not exactly forced either. This should be done with relatively cleaner meals throughout the day. Then I would allow room for something that is "tasty" or a little less clean....to ramp up calories and also give you something to look forward to.

Eating like this will keep you much leaner than eating for mass gain on an "out of control" diet with no real regimen or reasoning. Remember to accomplish 3-4 "clean meals" then a few shakes if you need to and the 1 "cheat" or less clean food option.

For me currently, I am eating tri tip steak and jasmine rice 4 times a day, then 16oz eggwhites mixed with 1 scoop of isolate and 12oz pinapple juice post workout, then my "fun meal" which is lately homemade pizza with steak on top and of course ice cream.

I for heaven sake....I will get you clued in on how to get your hands on AndroMassv3

-Matt

 

[jblift]

I was looking at the site and believe it said it wasn't available for purchase in the US. Hm..have to look into that. And thanks Matt, that was really informative. I completely understand with the one "less clean" meal, it definitely helps with the calories and helps you not lose your mind trying to eat as many calories on a 100% clean diet for mass.

Thanks again fellas.