Short cycles, some thoughts

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    I must admit, I do not think the "phasing" is necessary. I think a simple short cycle of say test and anavar(just as an example) together would be perfectly fine then moving into recovery.

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    I would like to see the results of a Short cycle.. cycle that looks like this.

    Wk 1-4 Phera Plex
    WK 5-8 Standard PCT
    WK 9-12 Mega TRN
    WK 13-16 Standard PCT
    WK 17-20 SD
    WK 21-26 Longer PCT
    This is similar to what Dr. D had up a page or so back. The jury is still out IMO on whether or not TRN is as harsh on the liver as the 17aas but I thought if itís not maybe the methoxy would give a little relief in between the other two.

    Savage,
    I believe that they are referring to compounds anabolic:androgenic ratio. Such as Test which is a 1:1 I believe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSavage
    What anabolic steroids drugs could one use during tbe "anabolic phase" that wouldn't cause shutdown?
    Boldenone, OT, Anavar. I am not too sure that I would say "wouldn't cause shutdown." I can say that based on my experience with anavar solo I exhibited no outward symptoms of shutdown i.e. decreased libido, shrinkage. No bloodwork was done so I cannot say with any assurance that anavar does or does not shut down endogenous Testosterone production.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    1-4 Test Prop (150mg EOD)
    1-4 Superdrol (36mg ED)
    1-4 Tren Ace (75mg EOD)

    5-8 Nolva 40/40/20/20
    5-8 Clomid 100/50/50
    5-8 IGF (40mcg)
    5-8 Clen/Ketotifen (pyramid)

    9-12 Test Prop (150mg EOD)
    9-12 Superdrol (36mg ED)
    9-12 Tren Ace (75mg EOD)

    13-16 Nolva 40/40/20/20
    13-16 Clomid 100/50/50
    13-16 IGF (40mcg)
    13-16 Clen/Ketotifen (pyramid)

    hows do you like this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21
    No bloodwork was done so I cannot say with any assurance that anavar does or does not shut down endogenous Testosterone production.
    Anavar will cause "shutdown".
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    Quote Originally Posted by size
    Anavar will cause "shutdown".
    I automatically assume it will suppress normal function. My statement was just that I have no factual evidence either way.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSavage
    In Building the Perfect Beast ALR constructs his "Absolute Anabolic Phases" without the use of anabolic steroids. He uses anabolic steroids only for the androgenic phase. For the anabolic phase he uses things like insulin and GH.

    Which has got me confused as to whether Size and Jminis are talking about Androgenic/Anabolic phases in terms of what ALR is saying, or else are they referring to an anabolic steroids cycle with Andro/Anabolic phases, which would be completely different.

    Also, while it is true that the most androgenic substances often cause fast shutdown, the steroid with perhaps the highest anabolic:androgenic ratio, deca, also causes quick shutdown through progesterone activity. What anabolic steroids drugs could one use during tbe "anabolic phase" that wouldn't cause shutdown?
    "Absolute Anabolic Phases" are actually something different. The part I'm referring to is the "Max Androgen Phases" (starts at pg. 38) in which there is an Androgenic Dominance Period and an Anabolic Dominance Period, and ALR mentions transitioning from androgenic to anabolic.

    I cannot locate the exact line where he mentions the transition aiding in delaying shutdown (but I remember reading it)... or was it in his other book CME?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mass_69
    "Absolute Anabolic Phases" are actually something different. The part I'm referring to is the "Max Androgen Phases" (starts at pg. 38) in which there is an Androgenic Dominance Period and an Anabolic Dominance Period, and ALR mentions transitioning from androgenic to anabolic.

    I cannot locate the exact line where he mentions the transition aiding in delaying shutdown (but I remember reading it)... or was it in his other book CME?
    OK thanks for the clarification. I will go back and reread.

    ALR has some interesting ideas. But I must say that the way he organizes his thoughts is haphazard at best. His books could really use a good editor...
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    Fuggin' GREAT thread around here bro's.
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    Anyone else care to chime in and running cycles in androgenic/anabolic phases?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSavage
    Anyone else care to chime in and running cycles in androgenic/anabolic phases?
    Bump for additional perspective.
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    bringin this back to the top!
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    I just did an 8-week bulker, I put on 35lbs, of which 15 to 20 were solid muscle. Doses were high and lots of food was absorbed. I have a thread in the contest prep section with my pics.
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    Have to love this thread kicking it to the top. Hey Size remember this one
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mass_69 View Post
    Bump for additional perspective.
    Thanks for bumpin' this Soma, everyone else left me hangin' for over a year...
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    for you guys that had experience with both long and short cycles. what would be better for a newbe to start of with a 1-10 week test e cycle or short 4 week shorter acting ester cycles.
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    For a newbie i would suggest a short cycle for a couple reasons:

    1) You have never used AAS and this is a good way to test the waters and to let find out how your body reacts, to the cycle, post cycle, and afterwards; sooner than later.

    2)You will recover your hpta faster which is critical for keeping gains and being shutdown can be hell on your mental state. with a short cycle it is not as long to recover. Better to suffer briefly your first time rather than dragging it out for possibly months.


    3) If you screw your pct all up then you dont have as much to lose
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mass_69 View Post
    Thanks for bumpin' this Soma, everyone else left me hangin' for over a year...

    What do you need to know on the subject? Check out my thread where I actually have an entire cycle based around phases. The link should be in the first few pages somewhere of this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminis View Post
    What do you need to know on the subject? Check out my thread where I actually have an entire cycle based around phases. The link should be in the first few pages somewhere of this thread.
    I wanted to see more comments pertaining to running these short cycles in phases (androgenic/anabolic), similar to what ALR wrote about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mass_69 View Post
    I wanted to see more comments pertaining to running these short cycles in phases (androgenic/anabolic), similar to what ALR wrote about.
    I think that is exactly what jminis is referring to.

    Now, stop hogging my thread! Wait... Forget it, it isn't my thread at all...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    I think that is exactly what jminis is referring to.

    Now, stop hogging my thread! Wait... Forget it, it isn't my thread at all...
    Gwunt, Lemmelone, I'm wetarted!


    jminis, thanks for the link, I either missed it or forgot about it
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    No worries glad you found it.
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    I started a similar discussion in called "burst cycliing" check it out if interested.


    anyway I am a big proponent of this type of steroid use. I think it is much healthier in the short and long run. However I do not think that these cycles should exclude test. Yes, I agree that depending on the goal, test may not be the best primary androgen to use, but if using tren and nandrolone (progestins), I think at least a replacement dose of test should be used. maybe 250mg per week.

    Now, according to the points brought up, the more androgenic the cycle is, the more suppressive it will be (not necessarily 'more' suppressive, but suppression is thought to set on faster in most). Obviously we are interested in runnign tren as the primary androgen, but in addition to the androgenicity from even a replacement dose of test, the time during which we arent shut down may be decreased.

    some may say its not even necessary to have test, and I can see why...less worry about estrogen, less total androgenicity, and why replace test if we are supposedly not shutting our natty test down fully anyway?

    what are other's opinions about that?

    I also think that guys should consider educating themselves on the use of slin (as it works very well with anabolic steroids). From experience, it has made a noticeable difference to me.

    If I were to design a seriesof cycles (to be repeated or changed depending on how they work) it would look like this:

    days 1-15: Test Prop 150mg ED (frontload day 1 with 200-250mg)
    Days 15-30: 45mg Test Prop ED (~replacement dosage)
    days 1-~30: NPP 700mg/wk (frontload 200mg day 1)
    days 3-30: Humalog 10iu PWO
    continually run: 10mcg EOD/E3D IGF-1LR3 PWO bi-lat

    AI: will have aromasin on hand, but may run dermacrine sustain as a natty AI until the aromasin is needed.

    NOTE:** I have been playing with the idea of 10mg Epistane ED during the high dose of TEST and NPP b/c at 10mg it helps me and others protect against gyno and some excess estrogen.

    RECOVERY:
    week 1:120mg Toremifene for first 3 days then 90mg,
    week 2:90/75mg toremifene
    week 3:60
    week 4:30/0mg toremifene

    -retain 2 for cortisol control
    -natty test booster at full dose
    -Hyperdrol X2 half-full dose EOD

    days 1-15: Tren ace 100mg ED (200mg day 1)
    days 1~30: test prop 45mg ED (will yeild 248.5mg test/wk=replacement ish)
    days 15-~30: NPP 700mg/wk
    days 3-30: humalog 10iu PWO
    continuosly: 10mcg EOD/E3D PWO bi-lat

    AI: aromasin and D sustain on hand

    RECOVERY:
    week 1:120mg Toremifene for first 3 days then 90mg,
    week 2:90/75mg toremifene
    week 3:60
    week 4:30/0mg toremifene

    -retain 2 for cortisol control
    -natty test booster at full dose
    -Hyperdrol X2 half-full dose EOD

    I like this idea becuase it is not the "same" mini cycle each time. It rotates. the first one is aimed at being "easier" (all compounds considered) thant the latter. Tren is stronger than test as an androgen, which is why it is used in the second mini cycle. Now, the reason I chose to do it in this order is becuase yes there will be some water retention with test and NPP and the overall result of that cycle will be a bit more smooth then it would be after the 2nd mini cycle. also, if the process were reversed, there may be diminishing results from the test and NPP cycle following the Tren and NPP cylce because the latter cycle would seem much stronger.

    BUT, the only Issue i see with this is it MAY interfere with recovery....(however I doubt it).

    both cycles are aimed at 50% androgen dominance and 50% anabolic domininance so as to maximize time on to ~30 days while minimizing the risk of increased shut-down severity.




    ****in my thread 'Burst Cycliing', I had come up with this idea which is 75% androgenic 25% anabolic. I think that this cycle would need to sit around 21 days becuase of the longer androgenic dominance. The idea with incorporating epistane the way I suggested is interesting for discussion though
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    Bumpin' this baby..

    btw, what do you guys think of this? It'll be my first injectable cycle.

    Week1: Test Prop. 200mg for first 2 injections, then 150mg/ MethylE 30mg
    Week2: TP 150mg EOD/ M-E 30mg
    Weeks3-4: TP 150mg EOD/ M-E 40mg

    Post Cycle Therapy:
    Toremifene: 60/60/45/30

    May go to 5 weeks, opinions?
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    bringing the original thread back up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harland View Post
    this doesn't sound that bad imo
    Novice...TEST PROP/TREN

    Test prop 75mg/day for 4 weeks and tren 50mg/day for 4 weeks. Serms as above. Nolva on hand.


    You could split that up into EOD injects, instead of ED injects?

    This might be a stupid a stupid questions but,
    what if you went off longer then suggested.

    say do a 4 week then do like 8 weeks off, then a 6 and wait 12 weeks. Still be as effective?
    This sounds really interesting, has anyone ever tried this? And is it true that Tren is harsh on the scalp?
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