Short cycles, some thoughts
- 03-19-2005, 06:32 PM
- 03-19-2005, 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by size
- 03-19-2005, 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by Manu20
03-20-2005, 01:45 PM
I thought the idea of short cycles was to blast, and get in and out without too much damage to your HTPA.
I just did two short cycles, one 15 days and one 30 days.
The 15 day one went much better then the 30 day one IMO because I had literally no crash post cycle, and that was my main reason for doing short cycles. When I did the 30 day one, I was depressed and lost interest in eating and training, and to me thats what I was trying to avoid. I ended up losing all my gains on both cycles because of this.
However, the 15 day cycle allowed me to gain 4-5lbs that I was easily able to hold on to, and thats what im after.
03-20-2005, 02:02 PM
03-20-2005, 02:21 PM
03-20-2005, 02:42 PM
03-30-2005, 05:39 PM
Just an update. Ive been off for about a month now since my last blast of 4 weeks on, and I found that its still too much. Ive tried (2) longer cycles of 8 weeks, and I crash with depression/anxiety lack of motivation etc with each one. So im going to be experimenting with day amounts until I hit the right amount of time for me. This one will be 17days on cycle. I have done a short 14 day one in the past, and I experieced NO crash whatsoever post cycle. Not even a drop in strength, and maybe only a loss of 1-2lbs post cycle. BUt I was taking dbol, so there ya go.
Im 240 10% @ 5'10'' 21 years old. I will be getting my BF hydro tested in 2-3 weeks in lab, so I can be more specific then.
Ill be taking 200mg B-6 ed
Day 1-3: Tren Ace 100mg NPP 100mg
Day 4-11: Tren Ace 100mg NPP 100mg Winny 100mg
Day 12-17: Tren Ace 75mg NPP 75mg Winny 50mg
Day 18-23: 50mg Nolva
Day 24-30: 40mg Nolva
Day 31-40: 25mg nolva
Day 40-xx: Off everything until I feel fully recovered. At least 10 days
I will more then likely run 80mg of IGF from day 5-35 as well to help with recovery.
Should I bother with femera during my cycle, because estrogen doesnt seem like it would be an issue at only 2 weeks.
03-30-2005, 05:53 PM
Do you use HCG? I would say if you have such massive problems with recovery and you're using HCG you might try using androgens to assist cutting rather than for putting on size, that would probably be more useful. Just do 2 weeks on and cut pretty hard, one month off like you have planned where you eat hypercalorically (just keep it clean and don't overdo it).Originally Posted by theseus
03-30-2005, 08:38 PM
I think you should run your cycles in anabolic/androgenic phases, doing this has allowed me to run 30-40days cycles with very little shutdown and minimal PCT blues
11-03-2005, 01:26 PM
Thought I would bring this back up b/c I have gotten a fair amount of positive feedback from utilizing this approach. Numerous experienced guys have contacted me detailing good gains and a much better overall physical feeling especially when entering, during, and after post cycle.
For those of you who have not read this thread, I encourage you to do so.
11-04-2005, 03:51 PM
yea size I am starting to put this theory to work this year....at least in 2006.....especially for bulking cycles..since I stop growing around week 6 anyways.....although I believe cutting cycles should be longer..thats why this summer I will run an eq/test/m4ohn cutter all at low doses with strict diet! good info here bros
11-04-2005, 06:26 PM
Size you know I love these cycles and I've had great success with them. Anyone who wants some solid gains, avoid sides and very easy PCT's these cycles are for you.
11-04-2005, 09:17 PM
Everyone has been on an ALR bashing streak b/c of the Methoxy TRN, so I think it is important that we consider the fact that while I doubt ALR invented the idea of short cycles, he has exhaustively laid them out and is a huge proponent. One of his main reasons for this is health benefits.
11-04-2005, 10:29 PM
Yeah, I agree. And for what it's worth, I hear that the couple of people I know who tried the MethloxyTRN loved it.
Ya always get bashed when you're on top is how I see it. I mean, who believes RSOC --- I mean BK --- anyway?
11-06-2005, 08:28 PM
11-06-2005, 08:34 PM
11-06-2005, 11:58 PM
Sure it could. Just megadose the **** out of them the first 2 weeks, get what they offer while active, and then they clear. But yes, NPP is a much better option. And there's no short-estered bold that won't make you sorry you bought it. It all hurts if it's real.
11-11-2005, 10:51 AM
Ok guys, couldnt enjoy a thread more and its for sure worth trying and i will in 3 weeks time, but the only thing i have access to is test e. (besides deca which i dont prefer).
i was wondering if a 4 weeks cycle of test e. would be good especially if i front load at first week with 1000-1500 mg ??
your thoughts and advise will be highly appreciated.
11-11-2005, 12:49 PM
You can use a longer acting ester but it my mind it is just not preferred.Originally Posted by Mess
11-12-2005, 09:02 PM
What about doing this with the new PHs? Yeah they shut you down pretty quick, so they say. But what if one were to start ATD or UHotter 3 days before the end of the cycle just to jump-start the PCT and PCT hard?
Would it seem safe to do 4on/4off a few times before taking some serious time off? Like, for example:
4 weeks ALRI Methoxy-TRN
4 weeks PCT
4 weeks MAX LMG
4 weeks PCT
4 weeks Superdrol
6 weeks PCT
6 weeks OFF at least...
11-13-2005, 07:29 PM
This is pretty common to piggyback short ph cycles. I have read of quite a few guys doing 2 in a row like this. Obvioulsy its very important to take all the proper supplements (RYR,Policosanol,Celery, etc, etc.) I am planning on piggybacking at least two like this. I did 4 weeks of SD and unfortunately got sick right into pct and lost some of my gains. I still held it remarkably well though. For being sick and not working out I was shocked at the gains retained. So I am planning on doing another 4 week stint with PP.Originally Posted by Grunt76
I dont know how many times it would be safe to do this though. I have read of guys with horrible lipid values and their levels came back relatively quick, but I think two many of these back to back would really keep your lipids screwed up for too long.
11-14-2005, 01:50 PM
Hm, yes. I was beginning to contemplate doing 4 of those. That would keep me busy from January to September with the PCT, time off 'til Late december.
Or maybe doing
What do y'all thinks?
11-14-2005, 01:53 PM
I think that would be much wiser. And if you're going to run that many cycles, make sure you get bloodwork. Before June would be perfect, especially if you get a baseline to compare it to.Originally Posted by Grunt76
01-08-2006, 08:15 PM
just want to let you guys know
I did a transdemal short cycle (Jminis style) before chrismas
I did 4ad (at a total of 8g and 1-testosterone (at a total of 6g) over a period of 14 days thats 1 g pro hormones/hormones a day splitt in two doses AM and PM
day -1 frontloaded with 1g dose AM and 1g dose PM
day 0-10 500mg AM and 500mg PM
day 11 400mg AM 400mg PM
day 12 300mg AM 300mg PM
day 13 200mg AM 200mg PM
day 14 100mg AM 100mg PM
day 15-28 post cycle therapy
I gained some water weigth due to the 4ad
My cals were 4-500 above maintance not mutch but I wantet a clean steady gain
before cycle I were 225 waist 39,5
last day on cycle i were 235 waist 39
last day on post cycle therapy 230 waist 38,5
now 2 weeks after post cycle therapy has ended I am still 230 and my waist is 38
strenght went upp and continued to du so post cycle therapy and even now off cycle aswell
On cycle were in training week 1 and 2
PCT were training week 3 and 4
Now off week 5-6 and is halway during week 7.
Next upp is a 8 day micro cycle of Ergomax lmg
40 mg at AM 20mg 8 houer later to saturate bloodlevels and muscles before start
day 1-8 10mgx3 at 8 houers intervals
day 9-16 post cycle therapy
This I do for obvius reasons
My WO is 2 days in a row and 2 days off in a row
Any inputs are higly welcomed
11-22-2006, 09:11 PM
bump for anyone to share their experience with short cycles.
Im planning on doing another one shortly that will look like the following:
day1: test prop 300mg / TA:75mg ED
day 2-13: test prop 100mg/ TA:50mg ED
day 2-14: dbol: 30mg day (possibly as I like to stay away from orals)
week 1: nolva 40mg / Mirt 5mg day
week 2: nolva 20mg / Mirt 5mg day
week 3: nolva 10mg
slin 8iu 2x day
starting weight should be 232 @ 9% im 5 10'
Hoping for 3-4 lb of muscle gained after the end of PCT.
Protein :460g day
Carbs 350g day
fat 70g day
11-29-2006, 10:50 AM
11-29-2006, 02:57 PM
Not too sure about the micro ergo cycle(8 days is too short in my opinion) but in general I think one should be able to make decent keepable gains over short periods of time. This is especailly the case if one sets up for such a period.Originally Posted by xtraflossy
11-29-2006, 04:15 PM
How do you mean "set up" for such a time??
I have yet find myself waken' up in a pool of my own sweat, missing my wallet and On cycle
11-30-2006, 12:40 PM
There are a few ways that one could set up for following such a cycle. One of which would be strategic deconditioning. Also set up in the sense that everything is in line such as training, nutrition, and rest so one can make the most out of the short period of time.Originally Posted by xtraflossy
11-30-2006, 01:08 PM
I honestly don't have that sort of dissapline to decondition... at least for an effective period of time...
But I do know that a super grocery shopping spree would be in order!! izza: :hot:
.... I mean, how fat can you get in 15 days....
11-30-2006, 01:16 PM
Jminis - Could you briefly summarize the basics of cycling in anabolic/androgenic phases, or else provide a link to a good reference? I'm interested in this but don't fully understand it.Originally Posted by jminis
11-30-2006, 01:22 PM
11-30-2006, 02:08 PM
Hmm,. well,.. I was thinking 21+ days. Nice.Originally Posted by size
I too am curious about anabolic/androgenic phases. I can only assume it means using different anabolics, keeping the androgenic for last,.. or first,..
12-01-2006, 01:58 PM
The phases are in relation to drug choice. So one period is more anabolic and the other more androgenic while determined by drug selection.Originally Posted by TeamSavage
12-01-2006, 02:23 PM
The evidence for benefit from short deconditioning periods is pretty weak. Though soviet studies have shown weightlifters will have up to a 20% reduction in strength over a 2 week period, weightlifting is a highly technical activity and the applicability of this information to bodybuilding is pretty low.
Since the majority of people here are purely concerned with aesthetics I don't really have any solid advice to give, but if you were an athlete, I would tell you to focus on other motor qualities besides strength for a month, while doing extremely low volume strength training purely for maintenance purposes. In particular, I think spending a month a couple times a year just doing large volumes of GPP and endurance work would be extremely beneficial to your long term athletic progress.
As far as strength training goes I would have to say that taking any time "completely off" is probably not optimal and you would be better served by reducing your volume or intensity somewhat for 2-4 weeks depending on how physically beat up you are.
12-01-2006, 02:44 PM
Thanks... I kind of assumed that. But do you run the androgenic phase first and then shift over to more anabolic drugs, or vice versa? Could this be used for a short 4-8 week cycle with orals or fast esters, or does it apply only to longer cycles?Originally Posted by size
12-01-2006, 02:50 PM
I think arguments could be made for both ways.Originally Posted by TeamSavage
I found the more androgenic the compound, the faster I get shut down.
Making the argument for placing it first would be you can get instant strength (almost) and gain becasue you have more matty test and such. Leaving a more anabolic compound becasue you might regain some natural production before you start PCT, making the gains stick easier.
Leaving the more androgenic compound for last to solidify gains..
12-01-2006, 05:52 PM
I believe this was the method and reasoning ALR gives in Building the Perfect Beast, to jumpstart with the more androgenic compound, as the body won't shutdown until 14-21 days, and then continue with the anabolic compound to prevent shutdown (or a harsher one).Originally Posted by xtraflossy
12-01-2006, 06:19 PM
In Building the Perfect Beast ALR constructs his "Absolute Anabolic Phases" without the use of AAS. He uses AAS only for the androgenic phase. For the anabolic phase he uses things like insulin and GH.Originally Posted by Mass_69
Which has got me confused as to whether Size and Jminis are talking about Androgenic/Anabolic phases in terms of what ALR is saying, or else are they referring to an AAS cycle with Andro/Anabolic phases, which would be completely different.
Also, while it is true that the most androgenic substances often cause fast shutdown, the steroid with perhaps the highest anabolic:androgenic ratio, deca, also causes quick shutdown through progesterone activity. What AAS drugs could one use during tbe "anabolic phase" that wouldn't cause shutdown?
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