Short cycles, some thoughts

[ManBeast]

25 pounds in a year is awesome work, especially if you kept your BF in check while doing that. Congrats and keep up the hard work.

ManBeast

[size]

originally posted by Iron Addict:

"........These younger guys that are all caught-up in their 2-4 week cycles are all over the boards these days posting their cycle logs and raving about their 10-30 lb gains in just a few short weeks. While the more experienced gear and PH users are sitting back and chuckling at their often-misplaced enthusiasm. ............ A properly designed cycle can net you huge gains if done properly and backed up with good training and a proper diet and supplementation program. But these types of gains are not amassed in 2-4 weeks on low dose gear or PH’s. The REAL muscle gains are just starting in 2-3 weeks, not ending there!"

I believe that the point of short cycles is NOT to make huge gains. Rather, the objective is to make modest gains that would not be achieved naturally in the same period of time. Furthermore, using such a method leads to a healthier lifestyle.

Not everyone, myslef included, wants to look like a professional bodybuilder. Certainly, if serious mass is ones ultimate goal then longer cycles are a better choice. However, the longer cycle have more consequences that go along with it.

[KingMeso]

I believe that the point of short cycles is NOT to make huge gains. Rather, the objective is to make modest gains that would not be achieved naturally in the same period of time. Furthermore, using such a method leads to a healthier lifestyle.

Not everyone, myslef included, wants to look like a professional bodybuilder. Certainly, if serious mass is ones ultimate goal then longer cycles are a better choice. However, the longer cycle have more consequences that go along with it.

Exactly

[Chalk User]

So if someone used the Tren/Winny stack w/o the Test like the article was saying wouldn't they have a hard time getting their dick hard. All the things you hear about Tren being suppressive applys right away doesn't it. Or could you slip by with a Tren/Winny stack for 3 weeks w/o losing your hard-ons.

[size]

So if someone used the Tren/Winny stack w/o the Test like the article was saying wouldn't they have a hard time getting their dick hard. All the things you hear about Tren being suppressive applys right away doesn't it. Or could you slip by with a Tren/Winny stack for 3 weeks w/o losing your hard-ons.

There are numerous errors in the article I posted. Specifically, I think the cycle suggestions are poor. I believe that using test suspension or test prop is essential. I also believe that 4 or 5 weeks would be the ideal length.

[Chalk User]

Size, glad to hear that I'm not crazy in thinking that Tren should have Test even in a "short" cycle. I am not disagreeing with your choice of 4 to 5 weeks but what, in particular, makes you choose that amount of time. Hell, while I'm asking your opinion, what do you think about Tren A @ 75mgs/eod with Test Prop @ 125mgs/eod and oral Winstrol @ 50mgs/ed for a 4 week short cycle. What about those choices in a 2 weeker?

[Matthew D]

Only problem I would see would getting the test/tren levels up quickly. I know that I usually have to wait on tren about 2 weeks or so to start seeing anything even though I know that it is working..

[Chalk User]

So 2 weeks is out of the question. I wasn't that attached to the idea anyway. How about 4 weeks though? Any opinions?

[size]

I am not disagreeing with your choice of 4 to 5 weeks but what, in particular, makes you choose that amount of time.

I have no facts that indicate 4 or 5 weeks, but rather this is just an opinion of mine. Consequently, differing opinions is understandable. I believe that 4 or 5 weeks is adequate time to allow muscle/strength gains and still recover quickly while keeping health risks to a minimum.

Hell, while I'm asking your opinion, what do you think about Tren A @ 75mgs/eod with Test Prop @ 125mgs/eod and oral Winstrol @ 50mgs/ed for a 4 week short cycle. What about those choices in a 2 weeker?

4 weeks would be a better option in my opinion. Also, I think base compounds would be better option but your cycle should still yield positive gains. If you would change the test prop to test suspension at 75-100mg ed, you would probably see better results. Remember, when injecting 125mg of prop you are not actually getting 125mg of testosterone b/c you need to account for the ester weight. With base compounds, you get the amount injected. I am just not confident in the ability to make worth while gains in 2 weeks.

[bioman]

Excellent discussion thus far, though i haven't read all the postings in minutia.

Speaking solely from a PH perspective I have to agree on the short cycle concept. I've always been of the belief that shorter is better but now I have see/felt the effects of a 12 weeker and I can see exactly what Size and the Euro article he posted were driving at.

Even wth HCG, nolva and letro this has been a fairly tough recovery compared to the 2-6 weekers I've done. I've even used 7-keto and i can tell this has helped the cortisol situation a little, but it's taken 5 weeks to get me feeling like myself again. In that time I've lost a lot of size on my arms and gained it on my waist

On the shorter cycles I've been able to keep size, strength and positive body comp very easily.

I'll never go on that long again..ever.

[Chalk User]

Size, I've never used Test Suspension before. Are the shot less painful than the Prop. If so I'm sold on it. I do alot of box squats and having a painful ****ing knot in my ass is not very helpful when it comes to that!Thanks for the tip on the ester weight. I always forget to figure that in. By the way, I wasn't trying to see if you had facts per se just get your opinion. So please don't think I was calling you out or anything. The short cycle thing is something I am going to do and I trying to get it all dialed in. Maybe we should start a new thread: "Chalk User: the short cycle experiment." and have everyone lend their collective ideas. I could then post a definative short cycle experience so everyone could quit speculating. Just a thought....
Signed,
The Lab Rat

[size]

By the way, I wasn't trying to see if you had facts per se just get your opinion. So please don't think I was calling you out or anything.

No offense at all. I was actually just trying to make it clear that I did NOT have facts. Instead, this is just an idea that is bouncing around and good for discussion.

[mulletman]

Man this post got me thinking, and I really hate that. Unfortunatly I already have a 12 week cycle of test e and equi on hand. would it still benefit me to do 2 six week cycles. or up the amount and do 2 five week cycles.

[ManBeast]

Test e and eq are not meant for short cycles.

ManBeast

[b-boy]

Test e and eq are not meant for short cycles.

ManBeast

if used in layered proticols then there just fine!!!!!

[ManBeast]

Meh... layering, crusing. They are both staying on for very long times, not exactly the "short cycle, then recovery" concept though from what I've read.

ManBeast

[b-boy]

Meh... layering, crusing. They are both staying on for very long times, not exactly the "short cycle, then recovery" concept though from what I've read.

ManBeast

please explain! how is what L.Rea suggests "staying on" or "cruising", your confusing the **** out of me

[ManBeast]

Maybe not L. Rea in this case... I have other issues with him (the claim in "building the perfect beast" that 4-oht helps recover HTPA function for one). But I don't see how an ester that stays in the system for so long can be well utilized in a short cycle. That's what confuses the **** outta me with regards to EQ and enan in a short cycle.

ManBeast

[jminis]

wow I'm glad to see this thread is still somewhat alive. Now that I'm back I will post my cycle and give an update as to how much of my gains I've kept, as of now my PCT is over and I've been off the nolva for over a week. I'll start the thread up a little later because I have to go learn about spinal stabilization. Later J

[theseus]

Any updates on this thread?
I like the idea of shorter cycles, especially the health aspects. During my last 10 week cycle my BP was up to 160 towards the end, and my doctor was not happy with me.
But a more productive post cycle seems to be the biggest benefit to me.