Short cycles, some thoughts

[size]

this doesn't sound that bad imo
Novice...TEST PROP/TREN

Test prop 75mg/day for 4 weeks and tren 50mg/day for 4 weeks. Serms as above. Nolva on hand.

You could split that up into EOD injects, instead of ED injects?

This might be a stupid a stupid questions but,
what if you went off longer then suggested.

Staying off longer is fine. I you read my original post you would see that I think longer time off is ideal.

The only problem I see for novices is the frequent injections. EOD can work but injection frequency is dependent on choice of drugs

[Jeff]

Staying off longer is fine. I you read my original post you would see that I think longer time off is ideal.

The only problem I see for novices is the frequent injections. EOD can work but injection frequency is dependent on choice of drugs

The link from the case study above has a 2 week on followed by a 4 week off cycle. The subject also starts 'PCT'/anti-E with the first shot and I think he is opting to do a get-in-and-hit-it-quick with a larger first day front load and ED injects. I was going to give it a try, any thoughts or suggestions?

[BAD_MO_FO]

That's what I did. I read the book about 3 times then devised a protocol which when all said and done took me about 3 weeks. Right now as I've told Size and posted in another thread I'm on day 37 and I'm up around 19lbs. This cycle has been without a doubt the best I've run and it's funny because it's a transdermal. With ALR protocols you keep gaining. You don't gain 15lbs then stall out for 4 weeks. The phases in the cycle are key and I believe recovery as a result will run smoothly. He say's get in grow hard and fast and get the hell out before your body has time to mount a defense and he's right.

Size you already know I agree with you. Cycles should be based around recovery. Anyone can take AAS and gain weight. The hard part is actually keeping the gains, which most typical meatheads don't. Anyway I'm not out of the woods yet as PCT is rapidly approaching but I'll make sure to keep the guys who are interested posted. later, J

jminis,

Do you have your cylce posted. I did a search and could not find it. If you do could you please post a link.

thanks.

[Harland]

jminis,

Do you have your cylce posted. I did a search and could not find it. If you do could you please post a link.

thanks.

bump, i would like to see of the cycles that people have done out there.

[chi_town]

From a safety standpoint, shorter cycles just make sense.
I subscribed to the short cycle theory even a few years ago.....while messing with dermal 1-test, 4ad and such. While my gains were not amazing...........they were good......anywhere from 5-10 lbs on 2 or 3 week cycles. I did this more for safety then anything else.

In the AS world, I have never done a cycle under 12 weeks. I don't know, maybe I have thrown a bit of safety to the wind (which might need to change). Currently ending week 9 of 13 of a prop/tren/winny cycle that I even front loaded some m1t I had lying around.......LOL.

One of the other thing I wonder about is how shorter cycles will effect ones sense of wellness. I mean ****, I love being on..........the way I feel when on is hard to decribe.
The yo-yo'ing effect form shorter cycles emotionally might make me crazier then I already am. But then again with short cycles......this yo-yo'ing may be non-existant.

There is no doubt in my mind the longer off, the safer things are. But I must say that especially this cycle.......my best gains both mass and strength wise did not start to happen until about week 5 or 6. What would I think of my current cycle if I had stopped at week 4 or 5 ? I bet I would have been a bit disappointed. Maybe front loading harder would have made things a bit different.

Seeing that I am staying at no more then 2 cycles a year.......I'll probably stick to longer cycles. But who know's, when I only have so much of this or so much of that......maybe I'll try a short cycle.

Nice discussion.........Nice thread Size !

-- Chi

[Harland]

Alright you say you start seeing your gains around week 6.

Ok if you were to do 8 weeks on and 8 weeks off three times a year, like size said.
Would total to 24 weeks on, which is basically how much you are on right now.

And in the scenario of 4weeks on 4 weeks off, you would still be in the 24 weeks on area.

So the differences I see are, if you did longer cycles, you would probably gain more in size and strength, but also in sides.

So in conclusion, it would come down to your goals.

[Jergo]

by MuscleTrainee
Cycle design:
Consider this cycle: Nandrolone phenylpropionate(EOD), tren(EOD), Winstrol depot((ED), optional Anavar(ED).

That cycle seems very odd to me. Okay, tren, NPP, winny, and var? Two orals, and two of the most supressive compounds stacked together...LOL

I guess you could get away with the sides more since you'll only be on for a short time span, but that just seems greek to me...

Although, don't knock it till you try it, right?

Jminis, let us all know how it pans out man, I'd like to hear some more personal experiences....

[chi_town]

Alright you say you start seeing your gains around week 6.

Ok if you were to do 8 weeks on and 8 weeks off three times a year, like size said.
Would total to 24 weeks on, which is basically how much you are on right now.

And in the scenario of 4weeks on 4 weeks off, you would still be in the 24 weeks on area.

So the differences I see are, if you did longer cycles, you would probably gain more in size and strength, but also in sides.

So in conclusion, it would come down to your goals.

Agreed ! Yeah, I can see 8 weekers.

So keeping in mind goals, side/safety........ect.......
whould a protocol for benefit one person better over another. What I mean, is like, would guys cutting be better served with longer cycles..........and bulker's......better off with shorter ? Also being endo, ecto or meso.........how would these factors play into one choosing a protocol ?

I guess it really boils down to......plan it, try and find out.

[Harland]

I think on benifet of short cycles could be the off time and how you bridge it to the next on time.

As someone said, it would be optimal for those 4-8 weeks to do some IGF/SLIN/DNP/CLEN or whatever you want.

[Jeff]

size,

the article by MuscleTrainee states that he is using tren and nor and no test in his cycle. What are your thoughts on that? I was under the impression that it is not a good idea to mix the two together becuase of progesterone induced gyno. Also he states that Winny is primarily anabolic not androgenic, does that sound correct?

[size]

I do not fully agree with the information in the article, but rather the idea or notion of the short cycle is the importance of the article. Cycles adjustments should be made in my opinion. "Consider this cycle: Nandrolone phenylpropionate(EOD), tren(EOD), Winstrol depot((ED), optional Anavar(ED). " is NOT a cycle I would choose.

[KingMeso]

I am very interested in this concept. My next cycle will be a short one. One of the downsides I see in trying to put a short cycle together, is that you're limited to a couple of AAS b/c of their half lives.

[Harland]

but you are limited to some of the best ones, fina, test, dbol.... etc.

[Jergo]

I am very interested in this concept. My next cycle will be a short one. One of the downsides I see in trying to put a short cycle together, is that you're limited to a couple of AAS b/c of their half lives.

Well, you can get any compound with a shorter ester or no ester for that matter and their usually widely available....

I'm still wanting to do my test suspension/bold suspension mix this coming winter....I wasn't planning on a short length though...probably around 10-12 weeks....I probably won't even use longer esters again...short and fast acting is the way to go IMO..

[Jeff]

Well, you can get any compound with a shorter ester or no ester for that matter and their usually widely available....

I'm still wanting to do my test suspension/bold suspension mix this coming winter....I wasn't planning on a short length though...probably around 10-12 weeks....I probably won't even use longer esters again...short and fast acting is the way to go IMO..

You are a tougher man then me Jergo, 2xDay for 12 weeks, I am just sore thinking about it.

So from all the articles posted, it looks like an oral (dbol, winny, var, etc...) is essential for the success of a short cycle?

[Jergo]

You are a tougher man then me Jergo, 2xDay for 12 weeks, I am just sore thinking about it.

So from all the articles posted, it looks like an oral (dbol, winny, var, etc...) is essential for the success of a short cycle?

Hehe, yeah well I haven't started it yet, so my thoughts on twice daily injects might take a turn for the worse once I'm already on....LOL..

But yeah, orals would be good to use, and you could use them for the duration of the cycle since it's only 4-6 weeks....

[nidan]

Hi,

first Id like to congratulate all of you for this damn good board...
second I want to excuse for my poor english.
I´m very fascinated by the short cycles and I think I´ll try one of these.
I want to use 75mg of Tren acetat eod and 20-30mg of oxandolone ed.
What do you think about ist? Will it be ok? I don´t want to bloat and keep the sides as low as possible.
I´m planing for a 3-4 week cycle.
with at least 3-4 month off in between. My goal is not to look lilke a freakin monster
Thanx
Nidan from Germany

BTW Here the bros are doin 20+ weeks cycles...ts much to long for me

[Beelzebub]

Hi,

first Id like to congratulate all of you for this damn good board...
second I want to excuse for my poor english.
I´m very fascinated by the short cycles and I think I´ll try one of these.
I want to use 75mg of Tren acetat eod and 20-30mg of oxandolone ed.
What do you think about ist? Will it be ok? I don´t want to bloat and keep the sides as low as possible.
I´m planing for a 3-4 week cycle.
with at least 3-4 month off in between. My goal is not to look lilke a freakin monster
Thanx
Nidan from Germany

BTW Here the bros are doin 20+ weeks cycles...ts much to long for me

might want to throw some test prop in there with it for a great cycle. 150 EOD would go nicely.

[nidan]

150mg of pro eod?
is it best to inject ed? i mean day 1. tren, day 2. pro, day 3. tren and so on or better to use all together in one siringe?
and what about the recovery? what ist best to use: nolva, clomid finastride?

nidan

[Beelzebub]

yeah, you could do it that way if you wanted but personally i would put it all in one syringe that way i wouldn't have to stick myself ed. i'd go for about 8 weeks with it and have clomid and nolva as PCT. pretty simple and common cycle.