[Hank Vangut]

3/1/2009 3/5/2009
LH 0.7 Low LH <0.2 Low
FSH 2.1 ok FSH 0.5 Low

Normal Range (adult male)
LH 1.0-8.4
FSH 1.0-10.5

so this did not work as an HCG alternative for you.

[nunes]

i was in the the final two weeks, with the 20mg mdrol and 20mg epi

I don't think its very bad, with that values you should at least maintain some test production so the balls were still working

[Dragon13]

Hmmm. Not so good. Curious as to what Eric might have to say about these poor results.

[nunes]

Hmmm. Not so good. Curious as to what Eric might have to say about these poor results.

I don't think they are poor , if the leydig cells are highly sensitive to lh they produce test even on low lh levels, we need to see the testosterone results to jump to a conclusion, having the htpa working on a suppressive cycle like the one that piston made its already a good thing

[Dragon13]

I don't think they are poor , if the leydig cells are highly sensitive to lh they produce test even on low lh levels, we need to see the testosterone results to jump to a conclusion, having the htpa working on a suppressive cycle like the one that piston made its already a good thing

No. Sustain as an HCG alternative is intended to increase GrRH, and as a result increase LH and FSH. They both declined, indicating further suppression. Leydig sensitivity is not relevant for what is being tested.

[Eric Potratz]

the last test didnt go so well. i could not get enough blood no matter how much i tried. i even poked myself more with 23g needle but still. I was getting very frustrated. this is even with moving my arm around to get blood moving beforehand. I hope they got enough on the second test. still no results.

Did you get the blood on the second test from the finger prick or the 23g needle?

-Eric

[buster0371]

sustain alpha does not work as and hcg alternative then?

[John Smeton]

sustain alpha does not work as and hcg alternative then?

This test does not seem to say so on paper.

[Brother]

Bummer

[TheeBC]

Ill have to buy more HCG instead of Sustain. ohh well, more needles, more fun!

I couldn't imagine the results being that great, as he continues to suppress himself, hes trying to recover. Lets try sobering up with more alcohol!

[Knowbull]

Well sustain is doing something, for energy, mood, pump. I doubt that its placebo. Too bad you cant get a double blind done, or a before, during and after. Im sure guys have volunteered, you wouldnt need a control group.

[Dragon13]

Well sustain is doing something, for energy, mood, pump. I doubt that its placebo. Too bad you cant get a double blind done, or a before, during and after. Im sure guys have volunteered, you wouldnt need a control group.

I'm more than willing to believe the product works for natty guys or guys off cycle, even PCT. It just appears, at least from this one test, that using it as an HCG alternative is a bit too optimistic.

[Steveoph]

^^^

I know Eric has been conducting a number of similar bloodwork tests. By having a larger n , it will give us more significant results. Perhaps we will find it can only stimulate the LH/FSH on less suppressive cycles; we shall see.

[Knowbull]

I'm more than willing to believe the product works for natty guys or guys off cycle, even PCT. It just appears, at least from this one test, that using it as an HCG alternative is a bit too optimistic.

I used it during a couple cycles and Im positive it delayed and minimized the "feeling" of shut-down, it also increased muscle volume in a "ka-boom" kind of way.

[Eric Potratz]

Yeah, this is only one user who tested at the tail end of a cycle (not our recommended time to start the on-cycle protocol anyway)

Considering the way the second test went, the results may be invalid. Capillary blood will not give the same results as venous blood, so I’m still trying to find out how pistonpump extracted the blood for the second blood test. (he mentioned using a 23g needle)

We have results that are more promising that this test, so we will continue to test in users.

-Eric

[John Smeton]

I used it during a couple cycles and Im positive it delayed and minimized the "feeling" of shut-down, it also increased muscle volume in a "ka-boom" kind of way.

good to hear

Yeah, this is only one user who tested at the tail end of a cycle (not our recommended time to start the on-cycle protocol anyway)

Considering the way the second test went, the results may be invalid. Capillary blood will not give the same results as venous blood, so I’m still trying to find out how pistonpump extracted the blood for the second blood test. (he mentioned using a 23g needle)

We have results that are more promising that this test, so we will continue to test in users.

-Eric

lets see them.

[Eric Potratz]

lets see them.

Im holding them back from you smeton



But seriously, Id like to gather a couple more test results to present a more convincing case...

-Eric

[John Smeton]

so the conclusion seems to be from the test presented it worked for a natural testostrone booster or pct, if you do hormones and it may be worth doing the last week if your on a short four week cycle and into pct. Okay well thats better than nothing! Thanks for the reviews

[Knowbull]

so the conclusion seems to be from the test presented it worked for a natural testostrone booster or pct, if you do hormones and it may be worth doing the last week if your on a short four week cycle and into pct. Okay well thats better than nothing! Thanks for the reviews

On a 4 or a 6, introduce it at day 10, eod til end, then ed for 4 or 6, throw in or pre-load with the Endo and T8 for good measure, a guy wouldnt have to worry about "having a serm on hand" provided he was sensible and modest with his dosing. Not to mention minimizing his yearly cycles. JMO It takes more than 1 bottle though. Personally Im tired of hearing about lab results that arent verifiable, I dont think a Physician or a hospital would accept those test results, Im sure this has been discussed elsewhere and on other boards, if it produces the results you want, it works, if it doesnt, then its useless and a guy shouldnt buy it or use it.If you're serious about this, some people need to get multi-channels, before and after, IMO anything less than that is a waste of time and money.

[pistonpump]

Did you get the blood on the second test from the finger prick or the 23g needle?

-Eric

both

[pistonpump]

Yeah, this is only one user who tested at the tail end of a cycle (not our recommended time to start the on-cycle protocol anyway)

Considering the way the second test went, the results may be invalid. Capillary blood will not give the same results as venous blood, so I’m still trying to find out how pistonpump extracted the blood for the second blood test. (he mentioned using a 23g needle)

We have results that are more promising that this test, so we will continue to test in users.

-Eric

im sure its the same blood. i slightly pricked it with the needle tip so it would have the same effect its not like i went deep with the needle. Even if the second test drew less blood then the first it doesnt matter because its measured by concentration anyway right? meaning if there was half the amount of blood on the second test then the result of LH and FSH findings would just be doubled and compared to the first test...thats how im thinking it would work.

With Sustain as an HCG alternative isnt it recommended to take 5 pumps or something along that line? I was taking 10pumps so that could have been too much. Personally i thought the tests should be ran differently but this is the way Eric wanted to do it. I wanted to use the sustain a little longer and test farther apart instead of the 3 days we did here.

Anyway I still think sustain is a good product i would use it again on or off cycle.

[Eric Potratz]

im sure its the same blood. i slightly pricked it with the needle tip so it would have the same effect its not like i went deep with the needle. Even if the second test drew less blood then the first it doesnt matter because its measured by concentration anyway right? meaning if there was half the amount of blood on the second test then the result of LH and FSH findings would just be doubled and compared to the first test...thats how im thinking it would work.

With Sustain as an HCG alternative isnt it recommended to take 5 pumps or something along that line? I was taking 10pumps so that could have been too much. Personally i thought the tests should be ran differently but this is the way Eric wanted to do it. I wanted to use the sustain a little longer and test farther apart instead of the 3 days we did here.

Anyway I still think sustain is a good product i would use it again on or off cycle.

Its not the amount of blood that makes a difference, it’s the type of blood. The venous and capillary blood holds different concentrations of hormones, and that’s why I wanted to verify that you got blood from the capillary vessel bed, rather than a vein.

Can you email me the test docs?

-Eric

[pistonpump]

Its not the amount of blood that makes a difference, it’s the type of blood. The venous and capillary blood holds different concentrations of hormones, and that’s why I wanted to verify that you got blood from the capillary vessel bed, rather than a vein.

Can you email me the test docs?

-Eric

i was just stating that the quantity wouldnt matter. I understand what you are saying about the venous and capillary blood but i was saying it is probably capillary blood because i pricked it the same way as the lancet would....

i dont have a scanner available but maybe i can mail them to you if you like?

[nunes]

No. Sustain as an HCG alternative is intended to increase GrRH, and as a result increase LH and FSH. They both declined, indicating further suppression. Leydig sensitivity is not relevant for what is being tested.

sorry , you`re right about that, in this particular case lh should be higher
good point, reps

[coolbreeze]

no needles, no illegality. slin pins costs you an extra $1 for every 2-3 injections just in needles, don't forget that part

sure but HCG is subQ - anyone can do SubQ, only a needle phobia would stop that. HCG type analogues are available on some of the Research Chem sites so it does not seem illegal.