Putting Sustain Alpha through the test as HCG alternative.

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    the last test didnt go so well. i could not get enough blood no matter how much i tried. i even poked myself more with 23g needle but still. I was getting very frustrated. this is even with moving my arm around to get blood moving beforehand. I hope they got enough on the second test. still no results.
    Did you get the blood on the second test from the finger prick or the 23g needle?

    -Eric


  2. sustain alpha does not work as and hcg alternative then?

  3. Quote Originally Posted by buster0371 View Post
    sustain alpha does not work as and hcg alternative then?
    This test does not seem to say so on paper.
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  4. Bummer

  5. Ill have to buy more HCG instead of Sustain. ohh well, more needles, more fun!

    I couldn't imagine the results being that great, as he continues to suppress himself, hes trying to recover. Lets try sobering up with more alcohol!

  6. Well sustain is doing something, for energy, mood, pump. I doubt that its placebo. Too bad you cant get a double blind done, or a before, during and after. Im sure guys have volunteered, you wouldnt need a control group.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Knowbull View Post
    Well sustain is doing something, for energy, mood, pump. I doubt that its placebo. Too bad you cant get a double blind done, or a before, during and after. Im sure guys have volunteered, you wouldnt need a control group.
    I'm more than willing to believe the product works for natty guys or guys off cycle, even PCT. It just appears, at least from this one test, that using it as an HCG alternative is a bit too optimistic.

  8. ^^^

    I know Eric has been conducting a number of similar bloodwork tests. By having a larger n , it will give us more significant results. Perhaps we will find it can only stimulate the LH/FSH on less suppressive cycles; we shall see.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Dragon13 View Post
    I'm more than willing to believe the product works for natty guys or guys off cycle, even PCT. It just appears, at least from this one test, that using it as an HCG alternative is a bit too optimistic.
    I used it during a couple cycles and Im positive it delayed and minimized the "feeling" of shut-down, it also increased muscle volume in a "ka-boom" kind of way.

  10. Yeah, this is only one user who tested at the tail end of a cycle (not our recommended time to start the on-cycle protocol anyway)

    Considering the way the second test went, the results may be invalid. Capillary blood will not give the same results as venous blood, so Iím still trying to find out how pistonpump extracted the blood for the second blood test. (he mentioned using a 23g needle)

    We have results that are more promising that this test, so we will continue to test in users.

    -Eric

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Knowbull View Post
    I used it during a couple cycles and Im positive it delayed and minimized the "feeling" of shut-down, it also increased muscle volume in a "ka-boom" kind of way.
    good to hear

    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Yeah, this is only one user who tested at the tail end of a cycle (not our recommended time to start the on-cycle protocol anyway)

    Considering the way the second test went, the results may be invalid. Capillary blood will not give the same results as venous blood, so Iím still trying to find out how pistonpump extracted the blood for the second blood test. (he mentioned using a 23g needle)

    We have results that are more promising that this test, so we will continue to test in users.

    -Eric
    lets see them.
    Follow me on facebook, twitter and youtube, where I share information and videos to help you achieve your physique goals, John Smeton Ftness

  12. Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post


    lets see them.
    Im holding them back from you smeton



    But seriously, Id like to gather a couple more test results to present a more convincing case...

    -Eric

  13. so the conclusion seems to be from the test presented it worked for a natural testostrone booster or pct, if you do hormones and it may be worth doing the last week if your on a short four week cycle and into pct. Okay well thats better than nothing! Thanks for the reviews
    Follow me on facebook, twitter and youtube, where I share information and videos to help you achieve your physique goals, John Smeton Ftness

  14. Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    so the conclusion seems to be from the test presented it worked for a natural testostrone booster or pct, if you do hormones and it may be worth doing the last week if your on a short four week cycle and into pct. Okay well thats better than nothing! Thanks for the reviews
    On a 4 or a 6, introduce it at day 10, eod til end, then ed for 4 or 6, throw in or pre-load with the Endo and T8 for good measure, a guy wouldnt have to worry about "having a serm on hand" provided he was sensible and modest with his dosing. Not to mention minimizing his yearly cycles. JMO It takes more than 1 bottle though. Personally Im tired of hearing about lab results that arent verifiable, I dont think a Physician or a hospital would accept those test results, Im sure this has been discussed elsewhere and on other boards, if it produces the results you want, it works, if it doesnt, then its useless and a guy shouldnt buy it or use it.If you're serious about this, some people need to get multi-channels, before and after, IMO anything less than that is a waste of time and money.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Did you get the blood on the second test from the finger prick or the 23g needle?

    -Eric
    both

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Yeah, this is only one user who tested at the tail end of a cycle (not our recommended time to start the on-cycle protocol anyway)

    Considering the way the second test went, the results may be invalid. Capillary blood will not give the same results as venous blood, so I’m still trying to find out how pistonpump extracted the blood for the second blood test. (he mentioned using a 23g needle)

    We have results that are more promising that this test, so we will continue to test in users.

    -Eric
    im sure its the same blood. i slightly pricked it with the needle tip so it would have the same effect its not like i went deep with the needle. Even if the second test drew less blood then the first it doesnt matter because its measured by concentration anyway right? meaning if there was half the amount of blood on the second test then the result of LH and FSH findings would just be doubled and compared to the first test...thats how im thinking it would work.

    With Sustain as an HCG alternative isnt it recommended to take 5 pumps or something along that line? I was taking 10pumps so that could have been too much. Personally i thought the tests should be ran differently but this is the way Eric wanted to do it. I wanted to use the sustain a little longer and test farther apart instead of the 3 days we did here.

    Anyway I still think sustain is a good product i would use it again on or off cycle.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    im sure its the same blood. i slightly pricked it with the needle tip so it would have the same effect its not like i went deep with the needle. Even if the second test drew less blood then the first it doesnt matter because its measured by concentration anyway right? meaning if there was half the amount of blood on the second test then the result of LH and FSH findings would just be doubled and compared to the first test...thats how im thinking it would work.

    With Sustain as an HCG alternative isnt it recommended to take 5 pumps or something along that line? I was taking 10pumps so that could have been too much. Personally i thought the tests should be ran differently but this is the way Eric wanted to do it. I wanted to use the sustain a little longer and test farther apart instead of the 3 days we did here.

    Anyway I still think sustain is a good product i would use it again on or off cycle.
    Its not the amount of blood that makes a difference, itís the type of blood. The venous and capillary blood holds different concentrations of hormones, and thatís why I wanted to verify that you got blood from the capillary vessel bed, rather than a vein.

    Can you email me the test docs?

    -Eric

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Its not the amount of blood that makes a difference, itís the type of blood. The venous and capillary blood holds different concentrations of hormones, and thatís why I wanted to verify that you got blood from the capillary vessel bed, rather than a vein.

    Can you email me the test docs?

    -Eric
    i was just stating that the quantity wouldnt matter. I understand what you are saying about the venous and capillary blood but i was saying it is probably capillary blood because i pricked it the same way as the lancet would....

    i dont have a scanner available but maybe i can mail them to you if you like?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Dragon13 View Post
    No. Sustain as an HCG alternative is intended to increase GrRH, and as a result increase LH and FSH. They both declined, indicating further suppression. Leydig sensitivity is not relevant for what is being tested.
    sorry , you`re right about that, in this particular case lh should be higher
    good point, reps

  20. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    no needles, no illegality. slin pins costs you an extra $1 for every 2-3 injections just in needles, don't forget that part
    sure but HCG is subQ - anyone can do SubQ, only a needle phobia would stop that. HCG type analogues are available on some of the Research Chem sites so it does not seem illegal.
  21. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by coolbreeze View Post
    sure but HCG is subQ - anyone can do SubQ, only a needle phobia would stop that. HCG type analogues are available on some of the Research Chem sites so it does not seem illegal.
    the research chems themselves are illegal for personal consumption, some states don't allow slin pins to be purchased without a prescription making their possession a "drug paraphenilia" violation, and anything injectible is banned from OTC sales.
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    the research chems themselves are illegal for personal consumption, some states don't allow slin pins to be purchased without a prescription making their possession a "drug paraphenilia" violation, and anything injectible is banned from OTC sales.
    I guess if you hold to the letter of the law as I doubt most do, then sure I see your point.

    A larger point that agrees with your statement is that at 100 iu of HCG, what would be used on cycle - a typical 10,000 iu bottle would end up expiring long before you even when through half of it. Now THAT is expensive!

    Even at 500 iu/week, in 30 days you use 2000 and lose 8,000 iu. Here I would prefer having SA if I knew it worked.

    Is there any theoretical conclusion at least as to the efficacy of SA as an HCG alternative?

  23. hCG can be bought in 5000 IU ampules. But we're getting off topic lol

    As for how SA would be a hCG alternative, Eric wrote up a few posts about it, thought there was a thread.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph View Post
    hCG can be bought in 5000 IU ampules. But we're getting off topic lol

    As for how SA would be a hCG alternative, Eric wrote up a few posts about it, thought there was a thread.
    We are going to continue testing the SA as an hCG alternative earlier in the cycleÖ The results from these tests really donít make any sense at all.... but they will be considered.

    -Eric

  25. I think there have too many variables with these testers. I propose getting a tester who is in good health with virgin receptors, do a pre-panel, let them use Sustain for a month, then get a post-panel. Simple and definative.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    so 4 days before PCT i get the stomach flu/virus, diarreha non stop, cant eat anything, bloating etc for 3 days! Its been about 5 days now and im introducing solid foods back in my diet but damn i could put nothing in my stomach, even water seemed to go right thru me. I lost almost 15lbs in less than a week, things could not have happened at a better time. Makes me question getting big anymore, i lose weight so easily its not even funny. I was only able to take sustain alpha and 120mg torem for the past 3 days and ive only trained once in the past 6 days. Not good.
    Dude, same exact **** happened to me! Lost 10lbs in less than 2 days, about 15lbs overall. Mine wasn't caused by the stomach flu though but a tainted supplement. I did puke my f'ing brains out though. Had to go to the ER and get 2 IVs, plus a prescription for Zophram. But I feel exactly like you, I lose weight in a min.
    It's hard to concentrate when I can hear your thoughts.

  27. imo you need a better to test it better, 3 days at 10 pumps ED isnt a conclusive dose considering you would use half that normally and for longer periods. Oh well... maybe you could link the other testers that had favorable results with SA for this purpose.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    We are going to continue testing the SA as an hCG alternative earlier in the cycleÖ The results from these tests really donít make any sense at all.... but they will be considered.

    -Eric
    Let me know if you need more testers!

  29. Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    imo you need a better to test it better, 3 days at 10 pumps ED isnt a conclusive dose considering you would use half that normally and for longer periods. Oh well... maybe you could link the other testers that had favorable results with SA for this purpose.
    Weíve started suggesting the higher dose for the on-cycle protocol, and 2 days should be enough to see a noticeable LH & FSH rise. (thatís all we really need to see)

    -Eric

    Coolbreeze... hit me up.

  30. wayyyy late, but subbed

  31. Does Sustain Alpha raise test and increase ball size permanently if you're shut down or just during that the bottle lasts??

    My libido is gone from using ssri's and have everything to make it normal again.

  32. Quote Originally Posted by valheruking View Post
    Does Sustain Alpha raise test and increase ball size permanently if you're shut down or just during that the bottle lasts??

    My libido is gone from using ssri's and have everything to make it normal again.

    I donít know about permanentlyÖ. But it definitely has a lasting effect that carries out past the duration of product use.

    In combo with the Toco-8 and EndoAmp Max you should be able to correct the libido issues and get the HPTA back on track for the long term from a 1-2 month cycle.

    -Eric

  33. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    I donít know about permanentlyÖ. But it definitely has a lasting effect that carries out past the duration of product use.

    In combo with the Toco-8 and EndoAmp Max you should be able to correct the libido issues and get the HPTA back on track for the long term from a 1-2 month cycle.

    -Eric
    OK thanks, I put an order for sustain and toco from BB.com last week hence the interest in this thread. All 3 was not an option since I'm a student on budget .

    How would you recommend the dosage for both these supps for best results?

  34. Quote Originally Posted by valheruking View Post
    OK thanks, I put an order for sustain and toco from BB.com last week hence the interest in this thread. All 3 was not an option since I'm a student on budget .

    How would you recommend the dosage for both these supps for best results?
    I would recommend 1 scoop per day of the Toco-8, along with 6 pumps of Sustain for 5 days on, 2 days off.

    -Eric

  35. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    I would recommend 1 scoop per day of the Toco-8, along with 6 pumps of Sustain for 5 days on, 2 days off.

    -Eric
    Sorry last question.. does it matter what time of the day? I would like to start this in the afternoon.

  36. Quote Originally Posted by valheruking View Post
    Sorry last question.. does it matter what time of the day? I would like to start this in the afternoon.
    You could do it anytime of the day.

    -Eric

  37. Hey lets say one were to pulse SUPERDROL M, W, F. If one took DTH and lets say sustain alpha on "off" days, would this help with PCT? Like you said, preloading the week before PCT helps out, so would this help in a pulse?

  38. Quote Originally Posted by buster0371 View Post
    Hey lets say one were to pulse SUPERDROL M, W, F. If one took DTH and lets say sustain alpha on "off" days, would this help with PCT? Like you said, preloading the week before PCT helps out, so would this help in a pulse?
    Yeah, the SA should help whether or not you are doing the pulse on the SD.

    -Eric

  39. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Yeah, the SA should help whether or not you are doing the pulse on the SD.

    -Eric
    interesting. i must spread the word to my friends....

  40. Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    Primoridal is providing me with to home blood tests to test for LH and FSH. I will be using Sustain Alpha and we will be able to see its effects on LH. I have one test at home and I have one more on the way. Im on day 33 of this cycle:

    1-43 edrol 10mg (i was using 10mg epi in the morning for 4 weeks prior also)
    44-56 edrol 20mg

    1-21 pplex 30mg
    22-28 pplex 45mg
    29-32 pplex 30mg
    33 pplex 25mg
    34-36 pplex 10mg

    30-43 sdrol 10mg
    44-56 sdrol 20mg
    -may be subject to change as cycle continues

    I would like to run the tests apart from each other but I think Primordial wants me to test 3 days apart from each test. I will update further as time goes along on how exactly we will utilize these blood tests.

    Another note I have been taking sustain alpha 3-4 pumps on random occasions for estrogen maintenance so to speak.

    Very exciting. This is a very good test

    CC
  

  
 

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