i'm curious what those who compete in PL/are fans of PL think about the shirts and suits that are worn .. they obviously can give a guy a HUGE HUGE HUGE increase in his lifts, but i realize of course you can't just put on a shirt and expect an automatic 200lb increase in your bench, you have to learn to use the shirt

but even though it is a "skill" that must be learned, there is a big argument to be made that the person himself is not responsible for a good portion of the lift

what does everyone think about these shirts/suits in terms of undermining the true purpose of the sport?

i personally don't really have an opinion i'm just curious what some of yours are

I have a couple of very good pl friends at my gym. To them it seems it is just part of powerlifting. Just another thing you have to do. I personally think raw lifts are much much more impressive but they don't see it that way.
The thing that kills me is watching these guys in their bench shirts. The bar on the way up flies up to halfway point then bamm....its like they hit a brick wall. The shirt at that point is not very active and that right there shows you that they couldn't even think about touching that weight w/o it.

And I personally am in to bodybuilding. But who are we to talk. With out chemical enhancement none of us could ever even look like frank zane, serge nubret, and let alone ronnie and jay. So not to say what we do is wrong but thats just how I try to view it. With or without, squatting 800 dl700 etc. still impressive!

well lets not kid ourselves PLers are using gear as well

i think one could make an argument that suits are kind of like synthol use as opposed to steriod use

more opinions?!

Originally Posted by glenihan

well lets not kid ourselves PLers are using gear as well

i think one could make an argument that suits are kind of like synthol use as opposed to steriod use

more opinions?!

I would agree on both accounts. Wonder what exnihilo would have to say?

But then again you have to work hard still to even use that lifting gear properly. Synthol doesn't require hard work. On Second thought I might have to disagree with you there glen. I see your point but these guys using suits still bust their butts in the gym and train as often as we do, except they do quite a bit more weight. I don't think I could disrespect powerlifters that much as to say using lifting gear is the same as bb's using synthol.

personally, i think suits, shirts, etc. are all crapola. once again, i bring up the case of gene the 1000+ bench guy. struggles with 405 RAW on the bench but puts up 1000+ with a shirt on with ease. if a guy beats you on a lift, you should KNOW for a fact that it was because he was stronger than you, not because he knows how to use suit or shirt better and has become a master of weight manipulation.

Originally Posted by Beelzebub

personally, i think suits, shirts, etc. are all crapola. once again, i bring up the case of gene the 1000+ bench guy. struggles with 405 RAW on the bench but puts up 1000+ with a shirt on with ease. if a guy beats you on a lift, you should KNOW for a fact that it was because he was stronger than you, not because he knows how to use suit or shirt better and has become a master of weight manipulation.

Agreed. I quite honestly don't understand why they're allowed.

Originally Posted by max-rot98

Synthol doesn't require hard work. .

actually synthol does require some work .. many people are under the misconception that synthol is oil that permanently stays in the muscle .. this is untrue .. synthol will stretch the fascia which then needs to be filled in with new muscle .. this is why you need to be in a heavily anabolic state and increase synthol doses over the course of 4-6 weeks .. proper use will result in eg 1-1.5 inch gain in the arms

so you can't just shoot synthol and get gains.... but its still probably not the best analogy to a PL suit .. i don't think there actually is a BB equivilant

I'm down on the shirts and suits. I thought the point of power "lifting" was to "lift the weight", not to have the shirt increase the weight you can lift.

Now, given, the shirt doesn't lift the weight for you and you do have to learn how to lift correctly in a shirt, but IMHO, anything over single-ply (which basically just keeps shoulders in their sockets) is retarded.

Where did you get that he struggles with 405 raw?

Originally Posted by Beelzebub

personally, i think suits, shirts, etc. are all crapola. once again, i bring up the case of gene the 1000+ bench guy. struggles with 405 RAW on the bench but puts up 1000+ with a shirt on with ease. if a guy beats you on a lift, you should KNOW for a fact that it was because he was stronger than you, not because he knows how to use suit or shirt better and has become a master of weight manipulation.

LOL, i knew this post was coming as soon as I saw the forum. I just gotta ask. All of you bashing gear.....Have you ever tried it? I am a powerlifter but im doing bodybuilding right now to get in shape. I dont wanna be the fat powerlifter stereotype. I use bench shirts, squat suits, and knee wraps. If Grifter chimes in on this post, he will let you know that its definitely not an instant increase. He couldnt even do a rep in one of my shirts. If i was going to a meet and no one else was lifting equipped, i wouldnt either. Im not going to go and lift against equipped lifters without gear. Powerlifting is just a totally different sport from bodybuilding. Yes, powerlifters do use steroids but not to the extent of bb'ers. Ronnie coleman and many others would be nowhere near their current sizes without the extensive useage just like the top bench and squat records would be no where near what they are without shirts and suits.....so whats the differences? I'm not trying to start any trouble. I just don't see why ya'll have to bash something that you haven't tried and obviously dont know much about. It's like when people who know nothing about roid useage bash it, its annoying right?

Amen!

Originally Posted by max-rot98

On Second thought I might have to disagree with you there glen. I see your point but these guys using suits still bust their butts in the gym and train as often as we do, except they do quite a bit more weight. I don't think I could disrespect powerlifters that much as to say using lifting gear is the same as bb's using synthol.

Originally Posted by Ant.

Where did you get that he struggles with 405 raw?

Check out the thread below this one. Titled competitors. I saw gene bench. I explain it there.

Originally Posted by Ant.

LOL, i knew this post was coming as soon as I saw the forum. I just gotta ask. All of you bashing gear.....Have you ever tried it? I am a powerlifter but im doing bodybuilding right now to get in shape. I dont wanna be the fat powerlifter stereotype. I use bench shirts, squat suits, and knee wraps. If Grifter chimes in on this post, he will let you know that its definitely not an instant increase. He couldnt even do a rep in one of my shirts. If i was going to a meet and no one else was lifting equipped, i wouldnt either. Im not going to go and lift against equipped lifters without gear. Powerlifting is just a totally different sport from bodybuilding. Yes, powerlifters do use steroids but not to the extent of bb'ers. Ronnie coleman and many others would be nowhere near their current sizes without the extensive useage just like the top bench and squat records would be no where near what they are without shirts and suits.....so whats the differences? I'm not trying to start any trouble. I just don't see why ya'll have to bash something that you haven't tried and obviously dont know much about. It's like when people who know nothing about roid useage bash it, its annoying right?

I understand that that is all part of the sport these days...it just doesn't make any sense to me. Other than safety equipment, I don't see the purpose of lift enhancing equipment--other than some of the "other" gear

What is the purpose of lifting gear? (And unless you're in singly ply, I don't want to hear "safety", lol)

Works for me. Just wondering. Im not a Gene Rychlak fan by any means. I like Ryan Kenelly and Scot Mendleson (716 raw bench....gotta respect that).

Originally Posted by max-rot98

Check out the thread below this one. Titled competitors. I saw gene bench. I explain it there.

You just have to be a powerlifter for it to make sense. I didnt get it when I first started. Takes time. I do lift in single ply. lol, you are thinking about old single play gear my friend. I have a single ply shirt that gives me at least 75 pounds and I dont even have it completely mastered. Lifting gear makes powerlifters lift more, steroids make bobybuilders bigger. Thats all there is to it. Neither are gonna go anywhere so there is no use complaining about it. If lifting raw is what you like...do it. I like to lift equipped so thats what I will do.

Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00

What is the purpose of lifting gear? (And unless you're in singly ply, I don't want to hear "safety", lol)

I respect what the shirted benchers do but raw strength interest me more. Genes 1005 bench is amazing but seeing kennelly press 600lbs for reps raw or scott mendelson blast up 700lbs inspires me much more. Because I love benching raw. I've never tried a shirt and probably never will. Like I said though I still like watching the equipped lifters do their thing to.

Well put.....and you didnt even have to say that suits, shirts, etc are all crapola, lol.

Originally Posted by Jstrong20

I respect what the shirted benchers do but raw strength interest me more. Genes 1005 bench is amazing but seeing kennelly press 600lbs for reps raw or scott mendelson blast up 700lbs inspires me much more. Because I love benching raw. I've never tried a shirt and probably never will. Like I said though I still like watching the equipped lifters do their thing to.

Originally Posted by Ant.

You just have to be a powerlifter for it to make sense. I didnt get it when I first started. Takes time. I do lift in single ply. lol, you are thinking about old single play gear my friend. I have a single ply shirt that gives me at least 75 pounds and I dont even have it completely mastered. Lifting gear makes powerlifters lift more, steroids make bobybuilders bigger. Thats all there is to it. Neither are gonna go anywhere so there is no use complaining about it. If lifting raw is what you like...do it. I like to lift equipped so thats what I will do.

Single ply giving you 75lbs...wow...LOL.

I, too, am a fan of raw lifts There...that better?

But, i do have to add this, PLers do their fair share of gear as well, bro. I know quite a few PLers and some who hold a few WR's, and my god they use lots of gear, too. 5-6g test a week + 1g/wk tren + orals and then you've got GH and slin, too. They ain't holdin' back

lol...hey, gotta do what you gotta do.

Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00

But, i do have to add this, PLers do their fair share of gear as well, bro. I know quite a few PLers and some who hold a few WR's, and my god they use lots of gear, too. 5-6g test a week + 1g/wk tren + orals and then you've got GH and slin, too. They ain't holdin' back

The most I've ever used were single ply Inzer and Titan Suits. I think that equipment has its place in powerlifting, but these ridiculous numbers of plys and materials kinda wears on me a bit. Of course, different strokes for different folks. If I were to compete again, the most I would use would maybe be a double ply viking suit from Dave Tate and Co. I believe that the equipment should only be used after you have already built a strong foundation. My best squat in a meet was 520 with full equipment, but I could also squat about 460 raw, also one has to get in the 'groove' to use the equipment to its maximum. Of course, I've been out of the game for a while and all these new companies and types of gear has my head spinning because the only options when I lifting were inzer and titan suits.

With respect to federations, there are so many feds, both with tested and non-tested lifing, (I would lift in the non-tested because I don't want the unpleasant surprise of testing postive for any supplements I may be taking or may take in the future). I'm kinda torn between lifting in both raw and assisted because I love to see how naturally strong I am and just how much weight I can move with all the help I can get to supplement my natural strength. So I guess, my stance is just lift regardless of how you do it.

Originally Posted by Ant.

Well put.....and you didnt even have to say that suits, shirts, etc are all crapola, lol.

just what i think brudda. if you can't lift the weight raw and it takes the 'art of shirt manipulation' to put the weight up, then you didn't really lift the weight. JMO.

nothing against the guys personally. kinda the same with BB'ing. if one guy is using 5+ grams of test, everyone else has too as well just to be a competitor. as with PL'ing, if one guys uses a crazy ass shirt to win, everyone else has too as well just to hang. but once again, comparing roids to suits ain't the same ballpark. when guys compete in the untested side, it ain't because they're popping CEE.

Yea, i agree. Only reason I made that comparison was because someone compared gear to synthol....thats pretty damn insulting. I have seen this argument countless times on powerlifting boards so I just figured I would play around a little. It will never be settled. Glenihan would have opened up a huge can of worms if this board had more powerlifting members. Im out of this post....dont wanna make any enemies on here even though im just messin around.

Originally Posted by Beelzebub

nothing against the guys personally. kinda the same with BB'ing. if one guy is using 5+ grams of test, everyone else has too as well just to be a competitor. as with PL'ing, if one guys uses a crazy ass shirt to win, everyone else has too as well just to hang. but once again, comparing roids to suits ain't the same ballpark. when guys compete in the untested side, it ain't because they're popping CEE.

Originally Posted by Ant.

Yea, i agree. Only reason I made that comparison was because someone compared gear to synthol....thats pretty damn insulting. I have seen this argument countless times on powerlifting boards so I just figured I would play around a little. It will never be settled. Glenihan would have opened up a huge can of worms if this board had more powerlifting members. Im out of this post....dont wanna make any enemies on here even though im just messin around.

enemies? jeez, can noone debate anymore without declaring war?

you stated your opinion, i stated mine. now, i've gotta do calf raises..........

I think the "supportive" gear has gotten waaay out of control. It used to be that a bench shirt was to protect the pecs and delts from very heavy weights, NOT for artificially adding poundage to the lift. And definately not meant solely for lifters to BREAK IN/LEARN how to use the shirt to add 150+ lbs on thier bench presses. I feel the same about squat suits.

Even so, the single ply shirts today (Inzer Rage X, Titan Fury, Metal Viking, etc.) and the Inzer hardcore/Metal Viking squat suits can instantly add 50-100lbs depending on bench technique and can add far more once a lifter tweaks it/learns how to bench in it. Basically a guy can go from benching 400 raw, get a great shirt, learn how to use it and train his lockout, and turn into a 600lb bench presser in a year or less. This is why more and more people are breaking records ALONG with tearing tendons/muscles and breaking bones at an astonishing rate (they don't have the base strength to handle the weight the shirt gives them).

One thing you don't see rising much is the deadlift, which is due to a lack of advances in gear. Bolton and a few others are the only ones in the last decade that have come close or surpassed Heisey's 925(920 maybe?). Isn't that sad, Gene Rychlack (the best example of powerlifting at its WORST) benched 1005 yet the guy Raw benches half that and cannot deadlift anywhere near 1000. Plus that stupid tuft of hair just makes me wish he drops the bar and decapitates himself one of these days.

I feel raw lifts (belt, wraps, and a singlet) are a much better indicator of how strong PLers are, but sadly due to the incrase in technology we'll never go back to the old days where gear was for support only. I know a lifter who does 420 raw and recently benched 565 in a single-ply Inzer RageX shirt after 2 months of use. So now you either have to go all out (roided to the gills, 2-ply canvas/poly/denim) or lift RAW in a tested meet. Sucks but that is what happens when one PL federation splits into 20, each w/ their own rules. I won't even go into the crap-ass judging going on. All these bench records are touch-n-go, w/o a rack command, and IIRC, medelson's latest record bench was done with the spotter's hands on the bar during the ENTIRE descent! Then it was pressed and racked w/o a command.

Originally Posted by UHCougar05

The most I've ever used were single ply Inzer and Titan Suits. I think that equipment has its place in powerlifting, but these ridiculous numbers of plys and materials kinda wears on me a bit. Of course, different strokes for different folks. If I were to compete again, the most I would use would maybe be a double ply viking suit from Dave Tate and Co. I believe that the equipment should only be used after you have already built a strong foundation. My best squat in a meet was 520 with full equipment, but I could also squat about 460 raw, also one has to get in the 'groove' to use the equipment to its maximum. Of course, I've been out of the game for a while and all these new companies and types of gear has my head spinning because the only options when I lifting were inzer and titan suits.

With respect to federations, there are so many feds, both with tested and non-tested lifing, (I would lift in the non-tested because I don't want the unpleasant surprise of testing postive for any supplements I may be taking or may take in the future). I'm kinda torn between lifting in both raw and assisted because I love to see how naturally strong I am and just how much weight I can move with all the help I can get to supplement my natural strength. So I guess, my stance is just lift regardless of how you do it.

maybe just a double ply metal viking? that is top notch stuff dude.

Performing maxes in gear 1) looks cooler due to awesome poundages 2) inflates ego [admit it to yourself] 3) taxes the CNS more, and, is a ****load harder to do 4) protects hips/pecs/shoulders, hurts spines/wrists/elbows

Originally Posted by Ant.

Yea, i agree. Only reason I made that comparison was because someone compared gear to synthol....thats pretty damn insulting. I have seen this argument countless times on powerlifting boards so I just figured I would play around a little. It will never be settled. Glenihan would have opened up a huge can of worms if this board had more powerlifting members. Im out of this post....dont wanna make any enemies on here even though im just messin around.

i admit the suits to synthol comparasion was probably a poor one .. i don't think there is an apt analogy between PL suits and anything in BB

i didn't mean to start a war .. in fact i stated i really don't have an opinion on the matter i was kind of just playing devils advocate .. i like hearing both sides of the coin .. especially the side that supports the use of equipment since the arguments against equipment are fairly obvious .. this is a good thread and will continue to be a good thread as long as every one continues to play nicely stay in the thread Ant i guarantee as long as we all keep acting civil NO ONE will become enemies

Originally Posted by SilentScream27

maybe just a double ply metal viking? that is top notch stuff dude.

Performing maxes in gear 1) looks cooler due to awesome poundages 2) inflates ego [admit it to yourself] 3) taxes the CNS more, and, is a ****load harder to do 4) protects hips/pecs/shoulders, hurts spines/wrists/elbows

Yeah, I know it is the top notch stuff and it lasts a long time. Of course, I wouldn't jump just into the viking double ply. That would only be if I decided to go all out and compete in the open division, but my strength is a long way from me doing that, so I might just go with the single ply viking if I just wanted to compete every now and again. And I definitely agree with those points.

What kind of shirts are you all using? Is the Inzer denim shirt any good?

Or do I need to get something else?

Thanks

lol, im in the same boat as you with the calves man so I feel your pain. They just dont grow. I just said the enemies thing because I have seen threads like this get way out of hand on a lot of powerlifting forums. Looks like everyone here is a bit more civilized though. If you decide to comepete and have any questions, hit me up. You helped me out planning my cycle so I would like to return the favor.

Originally Posted by Beelzebub

enemies? jeez, can noone debate anymore without declaring war?

you stated your opinion, i stated mine. now, i've gotta do calf raises..........

Will it be your first shirt? Denim is hard to learn so it will just piss you off as a first shirt. Something like a "loose" titan fury could work if you have someone to help you with it. The old Inzer blast shirts are pretty easy to learn but they have to be super tight to get much out of them. They work well as a first shirt though.

Originally Posted by jaybigboy34

What kind of shirts are you all using? Is the Inzer denim shirt any good?

Or do I need to get something else?

Thanks