my journey to get to 150 criticizm and suggestions wanted

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    since you're so lean, why not keep upping the cals until you see a little BF accumulate? You could afford a little BF is the result includes more LBM. Just my 2c.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cloc View Post
    shoulder are looking pretty vascular not sure if you mentioned but maybe you should add in a weight gain shake at bedtime never failed for putting weight on me i prefer to make my own but monstermass is pretty good solid ingredients anyways keep it up
    Agreed. That may have helped me pack on the most mass. Gainer right before you hit the bed works like a charm.

    Nice progress man
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    yeah i dont have ne gainer shakes i just make 2 shakes a day one before bed and one pwo. and then 4 meals on top of that. heres what im eating today lemme kno what u guys think

    meal 1/prewo
    steel cut oats, 2 hb eggs, whey, coconut oil, banana
    85cho 12 fat 50 pro

    meal 2 pwo 1
    30g wms, 20g oat powder 10g bcaa
    50cho

    pwo 2
    whey,skim milk, banana,
    25 cho 40 pro

    ppwo
    9 oz chicken breast, sweet potato, mixed veggies, evoo
    70 cho 10 fat 48pro

    meal 4
    tuna sandwhich on ezekial bread with hummus
    30 cho 20 fat 40 pro

    meal 5
    salad, shrimp, hb egg, evoo
    5 cho 14 fat 50 pro

    meal 6
    cotage cheese, evoo, whey
    5cho, 10 fat 35 pro

    total
    270 cho, 265 pro, 65 fat and about 2725 cals

    and the only supps im using are a mix of gda powders with carb meals
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanchezgreg18 View Post
    yeah i dont have ne gainer shakes i just make 2 shakes a day one before bed and one pwo. and then 4 meals on top of that. heres what im eating today lemme kno what u guys think

    meal 1/prewo
    steel cut oats, 2 hb eggs, whey, coconut oil, banana
    85cho 12 fat 50 pro

    meal 2 pwo 1
    30g wms, 20g oat powder 10g bcaa
    50cho

    pwo 2
    whey,skim milk, banana,
    25 cho 40 pro

    ppwo
    9 oz chicken breast, sweet potato, mixed veggies, evoo
    70 cho 10 fat 48pro

    meal 4
    tuna sandwhich on ezekial bread with hummus
    30 cho 20 fat 40 pro

    meal 5
    salad, shrimp, hb egg, evoo
    5 cho 14 fat 50 pro

    meal 6
    cotage cheese, evoo, whey
    5cho, 10 fat 35 pro

    total
    270 cho, 265 pro, 65 fat and about 2725 cals

    and the only supps im using are a mix of gda powders with carb meals
    You're eating the right stuff and you got your diet down, you just need more. Calories have to go up. This is where the weight gainer comes into play and how you will notice really great results. Theres recipes all over to save you some cash if you dont feel like buying a gainer. 1 shake can bring in an extra 1k calories a day, which will yield better gains. Good luck bro
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    dont bother with the gainers,

    do what your doing and add in 2-3teaspoons EVOO per meal, theres ur calories

    your fat is still too low shoot for 90g per day MINIMUM
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    yeah i think id be better off money and health wise sticking to real foods and adding one tbsp of evoo to my prewo meal, 1 tbsp of coconut oil to post workout shake and an extra tbsp of evoo to my prebed shake. that would give me an extra 28g fat brining total up to above 100g and my cals would be at 3000. took some leg pics this morning and ill try and get an updated back shot up soon.





    hopefully my quad starts getting more separated
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    Embrace the gut is all i can say, guys like you and me we can always cut fat..gaining muscle is the hard task- it becomes much easier IMO to gain muscle when I'm not worried about staying lean. Just pack pounds and when the weight is where you want it u can cut fat faster than probably anyone else on this forum, that's not a jab 'cause I'm probably next on that list lol... For more carbs buy a big bag of oat meal and eat 2 or 3 bowls a day with whole milk sweetened with honey.

    oats have to be the cheapest clean carbs in the world lol
    Your fastest weight is your best weight
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    ill admit i dont gain fat as fast as i used to like back in high school but i ate like sh!t then too. but i do a fair amount of cardio and i think that is what enables me to stay fairly lean while putting on decent amount of weight at the same time. honestly i cant believe ive gained almost 50lb and still am as lean as i am. but if i was the weight i am now and when i put on another 50 lbs it will be a different story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanchezgreg18 View Post
    yeah i think id be better off money and health wise sticking to real foods and adding one tbsp of evoo to my prewo meal, 1 tbsp of coconut oil to post workout shake and an extra tbsp of evoo to my prebed shake. that would give me an extra 28g fat brining total up to above 100g and my cals would be at 3000.
    I suggest homemade weight gainers, which usually consist of evoo, whey, oats, fruits etc...so I'm not sure how thats any different heathwise from what you usually eat. Only reason I suggested that is because its an easy 800-1000 calories, which would bring you upward at 3800 calories which = more gains. At your current stats you aren't going to have to worry about fat gains for a while IMO, plus you do cardio. I'm not an expert just sharing what worked for me. Keep up the good work though.
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    Gainer or not you can clearly add another 1000 cals into your diet and gain at a much faster rate with minimal fat gain, unless your happy at rate you going than stick to it, your diet looks good but it seems your just expending all the energy you put in if your goal is mass then eat like you want to gain mass. I dont see why this would put your health in any type of risk your eating 95 percent better than anyone in your position realistically its going to be extremely difficult for you to put on any appreciable muscle anytime soon without taking in allot more energy than your expending. Your goal is to get to 150 and the only ways your going to get there is to 1.EAT and 2. EAT some more i respect your idea to eat clean and try and stay lean but you are going to find in incredibly difficult reaching your goal in this manner. Just switching to red meats as opposed to chicken, tuna and shrimp would greatly improve your gains. -these all just MHO i have adopted through trial and error of what works best for me believe it or not before i started lifting i was 135lbs with the muscle of a 12 year old though i have used steroids eating is what got me where i am today period.
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    i appreciate ur input guys . I think i am just worried about gaining more fat than muscle but i think ur right i really dont have much to worry about in regard to getting fat. i think ill just up the cals to 3500 next week and see where that gets me in a month. and if im getting fat ill just keep the cals the same for another month and recomp a bit. the only reason i dont eat red meat is just because i dont like it to be honest , never have. but maybe its time to try something new. i mean im gaining on average about 1.1lbs every week in the last 9 months total. some weeks ill gain two or three and others itll be stagnate until i upp the cals . whats a realistic expectation of muscle to put on per week wihtout aas of course? i know the heavier i get the harder its going to be to gain muscle as i approach whatever my "genetic potential " is but whats your guys average weight gain per month when bulking natty
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    Well when you first put on weight it seems you had a strong rebound/muscle memory effect if your putting on 2lbs a week that is very steady but you must realize each pound you gain is going to require you to use more energy, as for what others gain is not important because no one will gain the same naturally some guys can gain 15-30lbs in a month naturally freaks of course but i would say in your case you could gain 15-20lbs in 3-5 months if you stay motivated.
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    You really can't gain much more then 1-2 pounds naturally per month without adding more fat. To many calories cause increase in acetyl co a and fatty acid synthesis. Keep to minimum
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    You really can't gain much more then 1-2 pounds naturally per month without adding more fat. To many calories cause increase in acetyl co a and fatty acid synthesis. Keep to minimum
    thats exactly why i think what im doing is good because i add calories each consecutive week in small intervals instead of jumping by 300-400 i add 100-150 cals a week and it seems like thats the best way to do it. albeit slower weight gain but i get slow and steady gains and fat is kept to a minimum. and no doubt the HCA has alot to do with my leaness
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    Yea HCA got realllly interesting properties. It may be a factor that's contributing to u gaining what looks like zero fat. Keep up the good work 1-2 pounds per month is safe and healthy
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    i agree i kno forsure hca is what lets me eat the amount of carbs i do and not get fat. because even tho i do cardio and lift 5x week other than that i just sit on my ass and eat all day. especially since finals are over im really gonna just be lounging around till next semester
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanchezgreg18 View Post
    i agree i kno forsure hca is what lets me eat the amount of carbs i do and not get fat. because even tho i do cardio and lift 5x week other than that i just sit on my ass and eat all day. especially since finals are over im really gonna just be lounging around till next semester
    Lounging is good, rest is good. Cardio is bad! stop doing cardio, you don't need to burn off those precious calories. Also, why no beef in your diet?
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....
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    idk the only beef i ever eat is liver. like i said before to be honest i just dont really like beef, i never have. plus i usually just buy 15lbs of chicken breasts, 20lbs of shrimp,8 dozen eggs, and tuna in the begining of the month and then i buy liver whenever im in the mood for it.
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    Cardio is bad? Hell no. That's best way to keep ur appetite up and help with insulin sensitoivity and nutrient partioning. Keep cardio 3x a week HIIT. And the rest light walking
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    Cardio is bad? Hell no. That's best way to keep ur appetite up and help with insulin sensitoivity and nutrient partioning. Keep cardio 3x a week HIIT. And the rest light walking
    No, for bulking cardio is going to slow down weight gain. The poor dude is 128 pounds and looks about 6% bodyfat. he doesn't need to be doing cardio. Want to keep an appetite? try heavy lifting. Want to lose pregnancy weight? try light walking.
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....
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    Wow. U don't understand how cadio is beneficial. You have a lot more reading to do.

    Helps blood flow. Helps appetite. Helps proper nutrient partioning. Helps endurance to keep a nice pace for high intensity lifting and strenuous exercise.

    Cardio is important in gaining weight. No mater how much u weigh. No one said to run a marathon
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    even doing 15-20mins of hiit cardio is good for appetite, nutrient partioning and overall cardiovascular health in general.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    Wow. U don't understand how cadio is beneficial. You have a lot more reading to do.

    Helps blood flow. Helps appetite. Helps proper nutrient partioning. Helps endurance to keep a nice pace for high intensity lifting and strenuous exercise.

    Cardio is important in gaining weight. No mater how much u weigh. No one said to run a marathon
    You're right_ I don't understand how cardio is beneficial in the goal of weight gain.
    I do understand that a strong healthy heart is of the utmost importance. "no one ever died from a weak bicep" is what a very well respected trainer once said. I do not however condone interval training to a 128 pound kid that's looking to gain weight. I say eat, do heavy squats, deads, pull ups and bench to get big.
    You say ditch the protein shakes and do cardio.
    you use some great terminology in your posts and I respect your intelligence, but the advice your giving this kid is not the best.
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....
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    Just caught this thread, im subd.! Keep up the hard work and dedication.. Keep cardio to a minimum, really, I didnt start truly gaining until I gave up cardio. I also felt my appetite decrease after cardio, but thats just me..
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmmah View Post
    You're right_ I don't understand how cardio is beneficial in the goal of weight gain.
    I do understand that a strong healthy heart is of the utmost importance. "no one ever died from a weak bicep" is what a very well respected trainer once said. I do not however condone interval training to a 128 pound kid that's looking to gain weight. I say eat, do heavy squats, deads, pull ups and bench to get big.
    You say ditch the protein shakes and do cardio.
    you use some great terminology in your posts and I respect your intelligence, but the advice your giving this kid is not the best.
    I said ditch the weight gainers and add more fat to the diet. Interval training will help the appetite. And its not everyday. I never once said not to do compound lifts or eat.

    When u drop cardio your endurance drops for intense training and u can't complete a workout because your endurance is not well. Blood flow Is important for optimal recovery to bring nutrients to tissues

    He won't waste away doin HIIT for 20 min 3x a week. And all other days walking for a little bit. U act like he's running a marathon. And he's been gaining. I wouldn't advocate anyone put one tremendous amount of weight in 2 months. Puts too much strain on tissues and organs.

    Most important is he's gaining at a steady rate with no fat. He's dedicated and has the will to do it. Everythings he's adding is muscle. U have to also fully understand where he was coming from and the conditions he had as well. How pissed would u be if u put one 3 pounds of fat for every pound of muscle for a total gain of 4 pounds.

    Do not advocate over eating which eventually will lead to adipose accumulation. Advocate healthy smart choices with slow weight gain to ensure no fat gain or very little fat gain

    Now I'm gunna ice my fingers because I typed this from my blackberry
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamer2be08 View Post
    Just caught this thread, im subd.! Keep up the hard work and dedication.. Keep cardio to a minimum, really, I didnt start truly gaining until I gave up cardio. I also felt my appetite decrease after cardio, but thats just me..
    My appetite diminishes after grueling intense workouts but picks up a few hours later

    After running on empty for 20 min I'm starving all day
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    idk why everyone is so anti-cardio these days. yes granted if i was running countless hours daily and eating a poor diet with inadequate calories i wouldnt gain . but with that said why change something that works? ive been steadily gaining ever since march and going from 81 lbs to 128 with minimal fat gain has got to show some dedication on my part to meticulous diet and training should it? I know all my buddies think im crazy for planning everything i eat two days in advance and weighing out my food so that i can keep track of every single calorie , macro by macro, so i can find what works and what does not. but anyways since my new favorite nutrient partitioner is HCA i thought id post some info on it before everyone assumes HCA is only good for cutting. while it is excellent for cutting it is perfect for lean bulking or recomping IMO. and since i needed to take a break from berberine i found HCA.



    STOPS PRODUCTION OF NEW FAT

    HCA acts as a lipogenic inhibitor meaning that it inhibits the production of fat in the body. It has been demonstrated that this amazing extract has the ability to reduce fat production by 40-70% up to 12 hours after eating a meal. It does this by attaching itself to a compound known as citrate lyase. Citrate lyase is an enzyme necessary for the production of the building blocks of fat, Malonyl Coenzyme A. By rendering citrate lyase inactive, Malonyl Coenzyme A cannot be made and so fat is not synthesized.



    ACCELERATED FAT BURNING

    Low levels of Malonyl Coenzyme A triggers another fat reducing reaction. Put simply, when your body is not making fat it likes to burn fat. The low level of Malonyl Coenzyme A activates the oxidation of fat in the liver and adipose tissues. This accelerated fat burning (thermogenesis) is the most important effect of HCA for fat loss.




    Increased gluconeogenesis and larger glycogen stores in the liver seem to signal the brain that the body is full. In addition, enhanced gluconeogenesis counter acts lowered blood sugar (hypoglycemia).

    INCREASED METABOLIC RATE

    Metabolic energy is necessary in order to synthesize new glucose. Thus, whenever gluconeogenesis is stimulated, metabolic rate increases (Flatt JP Biochem of Energy Expenditure, Bray GA, London 1978, pp 211-228). This increases the expenditure of calories in the body.



    PROTEIN SPARING -

    In a negative calorie balance, that is , when more calories are burned than ingested, stored fat and protein are oxidized to meet the body’s metabolic demands. It is preferable that fat rather than protein be burned during this state. But during dieting (restricted calorie intake) up to 30% of the weight reduction can come from muscle loss. HCA stimulates fat burning while simultaneously retarding protein breakdown. This minimizes the loss of muscle. It does this because of its effect on ketone bodies - which slow the rate at which protein is broken down in skeletal muscle (Sherwin RS et al J Clin, Invest 1975, 55:1382-1390). HCA accelerates the rate of ketone production. The glucose formed from gluconeogenesis stimulates the secretion of Insulin. Insulin is more anabolic than Testosterone and thus the breakdown of protein in the muscle tissue is inhibited (Sherwin RS et al J Clin Invest 1975 55:1382-1390). By maintaining more muscle, as well as looking better, the body will burn more fat. The greater the lean mass, the faster the metabolic rate and the less that calories have to be cut back. This makes dieting easier.



    LOWERS CHOLESTEROL

    HCA reduces LDL (Berkhout TA et al, Biochem J 1990; 272:181-186) (the bad cholesterol) and triglycerides(Sullivan AC et al, Am J Clin Nutr 1977; 30: 777-784). It is thought that this lowering of the production of both cholesterol and fatty acids is a result of HCA’s effects on the metabolism.



    INCREASING THE EFFECTS OF HCA

    Two substances that have both been demonstrated to enhance the effects of HCA are L-Carnitine and Chromium.

    L-Carnitine, a naturally occurring Amino Acid, becomes supercharged when paired with HCA, picking up fats and throwing them into the body’s furnace, where they are burned and used as energy. L-Carnitine is essential in the transfer of long chain fatty acids into the mitochondria of the cells, (furnace part of cell).

    Chromium is a key mineral that “keeps insulin levels in check” by making the hormone more efficient at regulating blood sugar levels (US Dept of Agriculture).

    A number of clinical trials have been performed including an eight week double blind control study in 1991. The people who took HCA in combination with Chromium lost an average of approximately 5 kg (11.1 pounds) per person(Anthony Conty, MD 1991 Hilton Head Study: Lipodex - 2). This finding was confirmed by a 1993 trial (11.48 lbs)(Anthony Conty, MD 1993 Allendale Study: Lipotrol/Actotherm).
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    I am only anti-cardio due to all I did in HS and Middle school was cardio. My senior year of HS I was the same height of about 5'10", 6 percent BF and a whopping 118 lbs. Was a varsity swimmer and track runner. Even though I have quit cardio and gained hella mass, my Army PFT 2 mile time is still between 12 and 13 minutes and my BF percentage is still low, even on my dirty bulk diet. Im not saying for you to stop cardio all together, just to do enough to keep you satisfied, but not so much to were it hinders gains.
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    I'm not anti-cardio, but if I was trying to bulk, I would be. And you sir, are trying to bulk, yes?
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....
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    whats your point honestly? if i am doing cardio and still making consistent LEAN gains in the amount of .5-1lb every 1-2 weeks how is it affecting me negatively? Id rather make the consistently lean gains that i am instead of dropping cardio, forgetting about meal plans and just eating everything in site, and putting on 1lb of fat for every 1lb of muscle. id rather be healthy and if it takes me longer to reach my goal then so be it. its not worth getting to my goal weight with half being fat in half the time instead of doing it the right way and getting there in twice the time but twice as healthy and lean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmmah View Post
    I'm not anti-cardio, but if I was trying to bulk, I would be. And you sir, are trying to bulk, yes?
    I think cardio yr round is important for general health, whether bulking or not.

    During a bulk, I'll do less for sure, but just make sure I compensate for it in my diet.
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    [QUOTE=jakellpet;2243498]I think cardio yr round is important for general health, whether bulking or not.

    During a bulk, I'll do less for sure, but just make sure I compensate for it in my diet.[/QUOTE]


    Exactly , im doing cardio and im still gaining weight so i must be doing something right
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanchezgreg18 View Post
    whats your point honestly? if i am doing cardio and still making consistent LEAN gains in the amount of .5-1lb every 1-2 weeks how is it affecting me negatively? Id rather make the consistently lean gains that i am instead of dropping cardio, forgetting about meal plans and just eating everything in site, and putting on 1lb of fat for every 1lb of muscle. id rather be healthy and if it takes me longer to reach my goal then so be it. its not worth getting to my goal weight with half being fat in half the time instead of doing it the right way and getting there in twice the time but twice as healthy and lean.
    4 years ago I weighed 160 and got to 200 with just a good diet and heavy lifting in only 7 months. it was easy because I hadn't reached my genetic potential yet. Just like you.
    I never said forget about meal plans, just freakin eat some calories and stop wasting them doin cardio!You don't even eat beef!
    I was only trying to get you to try the ways that I did, and gain quicker. Good luck dude, I guess I'm throwing my hands up in the air about this one. Late.
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....
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    40 lbs in 7 months. starting at 160? how much was fat bro. but regardless from march until now ive put on 49 lbs... so 9 months 49 lbs and sub 10% bf. how is that different i dont get it
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    post up some current pics!
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    i just posted some this past monday and tuesday. they were a lil blurry. ill try to get some pics tomorrow before breakfast so im not pumped from teh carbs
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    I say keep the cardio. If there was one thing I had to do between lifting and cardio, for health it would be cardio. Since you are not in that issue, just continue lifting while keeping the cardio. The best of both worlds, so what if you don't gain as much as quick.
    - Join Me: Tex89 M-Sten RX Log... Dicing that iron -
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    took some pics but when i was uploading them at my friends house her camera died so shes gonna send them to me some time this week. but i did get one picture loaded.
    judoJ I copied ur pic idea



    took measurements when i woke up after i weighed myself
    chest: 35.7
    quad:20
    calf 12
    bicep 12.25
    forgot to do waist somewhere around 28-30 im guessing.
    so im hoping im still at 130 tomorrow when i wake up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanchezgreg18 View Post
    but i did get one picture loaded.
    judoJ I copied ur pic idea
    no prob... pics dont lie man, looking good so far.. keep putting them lbs on bud!!!!
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    thanks bro , im gonna have to start a new thread because ill be at 150 in the next 4 months hopefully if everything goes the way it has been. next thread will be trip to 185 6%bf
  

  
 

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