13 Month Transformation (w/ serious dedication)

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  1. figured id update you guys.

    Bad News.

    I have a grade III varicocele, dont know if this relates, but it triggered me to check my T levels. Past 5 months have shown Total T in low 300's with Pituitary LH at 1.5. However, my I feel "normal" and I'm still getting stronger. I've dropped some weight down to 178 but still just as cut.

    I feel exactly the same as I did before using any oral prohormone/steroid. I just think this is why I reacted so strongly usage of these methyls. I've come to the conclusion that I've had lower test levels throughout my life and my body has adapted to hold muscle extremely efficiently, thus I explode on any PH. My body was probably used to the 3 years of beating it took with low levels and then when it received a month supply of epistane, it went nuts.

    Its bitter sweet to find this out. No doctor wants to help me around here. I feel fine, I am NOT feeling shutdown and I TRULY believe its not related to PH usage. I've always had oddly little amount of facial hair and my size never equals my strength.

    When I look back on highschool through college some things may have finally clicked in my mind:
    -not much facial hair compared to everyone else in my family
    -rediculous stupid gains on havoc
    -brain foggy/really sleepy all the time after 3pm
    -a nap in the afternoon after classes has always been oddly necessary
    -sex drive did indeed drop somewhat after my junior year of high school, I remember taking tribulus/maca root trying to see if I could figure out the problem
    -**Mood swings/Easily Irritated - This DEFINITELY started happening around my junior year of High School. My family/friends/and GF certainly can testify. I thought my testosterone was raising.

    After seeing these blood tests and rethinking my past few years...I think I have minor symptoms of lower end T.

    But, even tho i'm 99.9% sure these lower T levels/LH are probably my normal levels, theres still .1% of me that wishes I knew for sure it wasn't related to havoc.

    PLEASE get baseline blood tests guys before you cycle anything in your life.

    I'm officially traveling to see Dr. John Crisler next tuesday in hopes of maybe HCG Monotherapy or maybe TRT+HCG. I really want to see for possibly the first time what 800+ average levels for my age. I seriously believe I have the genetic structure to build alot of muscle, its just I've always lacked the Testosterone.


    Once again, before you people started pointing fingers with the "under 21 steroids, this is why you don't take orals blah blah blah" I'm VERY certain this isn't related.


  2. good luck. I hope for most people getting bloods done is a given though. if not they never know what they are supposed to recover to.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by TexasLifter89 View Post
    good luck. I hope for most people getting bloods done is a given though. if not they never know what they are supposed to recover to.
    I wish I knew

    I feel COMPLETELY recovered. In fact my T levels were up to higher than they are now, 466 ONLY 14 days in PCT 5 months ago using Toremifene and Reversitol.

    I feel exactly the same in every aspect as I have my whole life so I guess a previous blood test probably woudn't matter to much. The fact that my LH dropped from 4.2 on toremifene down to 1.5 tell me its probably secondary hypogonadism. People with pituitary shutdown from overuse of prohormones DO NOT repond to clomid...their LH stays down.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    I wish I knew

    I feel COMPLETELY recovered. In fact my T levels were up to higher than they are now, 466 ONLY 14 days in PCT 5 months ago using Toremifene and Reversitol.

    I feel exactly the same in every aspect as I have my whole life so I guess a previous blood test probably woudn't matter to much. The fact that my LH dropped from 4.2 on toremifene down to 1.5 tell me its probably secondary hypogonadism. People with pituitary shutdown from overuse of prohormones DO NOT repond to clomid...their LH stays down.
    Can never go by feel Hell I am almost twice your age and i can't really say I feel a difference but i know with my age my levels have most certainlly dropped from when i was in my early 20's Just go to the doctor like you plan and see what he says it's too late now to ever really know what caused it. No matter what you think or how you try to rationalize it low facial hair low libidio etc the truth is you will never know if it was natural or caused by the designers and you will just give yourself more anxiety by trying to figure it out. The only thing and BEST thing to do is forget worrying about what got you here and concentrate on moving forward in any way your physician sees fit.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by mixedup View Post
    Can never go by feel Hell I am almost twice your age and i can't really say I feel a difference but i know with my age my levels have most certainlly dropped from when i was in my early 20's Just go to the doctor like you plan and see what he says it's too late now to ever really know what caused it. No matter what you think or how you try to rationalize it low facial hair low libidio etc the truth is you will never know if it was natural or caused by the designers and you will just give yourself more anxiety by trying to figure it out. The only thing and BEST thing to do is forget worrying about what got you here and concentrate on moving forward in any way your physician sees fit.


    you are certainly correct. No way to ever no and no reason speculate. The facts are the facts. I guess the only thing would be to try clomiphene and then HCG. Its pretty much predictable that LH will drop back again as it did previously. If LH does indeed drop back to low levels, then HCG monotherapy would probably work. However, I don't believe in HCG monotherapy as you are shutting down the pituitary anyhow. Whats the point of HCG monotherapy when you can take HCG along with TRT and have supplemented test alongside natural HCG stimulated Test.

    I have lots of confidence that Dr. Crisler should be able to help tremendously...and if it means trying out TRT as a test to see how much different I feel, its not like you face permanent effects immediately.

    My only concern, if I truly have secondary hypo, I would hate to have to freeze sperm and go on TRT / become infertile. This is why I wish I new if this was 100% natural, the way I was born, and no doubt in my mind related to designers.
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  6. why not just deal with it till you have kids which most likely wont be another 10 years. and then start trt. you can get dr. evaluations and such, but if you truly want to stay fertile just live with it another 5 years
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by TexasLifter89 View Post
    why not just deal with it till you have kids which most likely wont be another 10 years. and then start trt. you can get dr. evaluations and such, but if you truly want to stay fertile just live with it another 5 years
    Well I plan on going to med school, its going to be a good while before I"m married.

    Seriously, I don't want to settle for less in my life. 20s are the prime years of a man's life. You are supposed to reach your physical peak, have the highest sex drive, mental concentration, etc. I mean I believe I would have had steady progressive muscle gains if I had normal T levels for my age. I probably would have come much closer to where I am without PH/steroids.

    I really want to see how much better TRT feels before I decide to "wait until I have kids". If its really that much of an extraordinary difference between 300>800-900 level Total T and 9>>27 level Free T, then Id certainly be fine with sperm storage and HCG. I mean on HCG with periodic cycling of HMG, you can remain fertile for a long amount of time. HCG maintains LH and HMG will stimulate FSH.

  8. Wow.. Im just remembering all of the bull**** you went through. anyways, Its good to hear your getting your **** done. Congrats! but on another note: Its pretty ****ty you have to consider TRT, at such a young age. Thats life changing, and i would personally wait another couple of years to judge if you need the TRT. If your still producing sperm and getting hard-on's, I dont see the need for it, especially if you have the ability to gain strength. Just give it time man, good luck with med-school too, chemistry is kicking me right in the balls everyday.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by crowpass View Post
    Wow.. Im just remembering all of the bull**** you went through. anyways, Its good to hear your getting your **** done. Congrats! but on another note: Its pretty ****ty you have to consider TRT, at such a young age. Thats life changing, and i would personally wait another couple of years to judge if you need the TRT. If your still producing sperm and getting hard-on's, I dont see the need for it, especially if you have the ability to gain strength. Just give it time man, good luck with med-school too, chemistry is kicking me right in the balls everyday.
    I just started chem 101 and 102...taking both classes in 8 weeks of summer school with 3 hr labs 3 times a week!


    I've been on Clomid at 25mg for 10 days now. I feel slightly different. Sleeping alot better and possibly better energy.
  10. Clomid is great





    Well these pics are a certainly with an over-the-top pump fresh out of the gym from USP Jacked. My arms don't balloon like that all day long Weighing a solid 181.5lbs on average but my arms are alot bigger than the last pics. Tad bit of fat around the waste....Id say 13% BF.

    Anyhow, a big F-U to everyone who said low-t was all in my head and that I should see a shrink instead of a doctor. Well, let me tell you what guys...Ive been on clomid at 25mg/day for 4 weeks now and my workouts are moving forward every week little by little...I'm up to doing 3 sets of 11 with 205 on bench press and 60lb weighted dip....squatting 315 parallel. My face has been alot more oily, my nuts feel firmer, sex drive is much higher. Its not quite a night/day difference, but its strong enough to let me know that I have had a problem for a LONG time.

    I wish I never knew I had low-T....imagine another round of havoc LOL, not happening, ever, but I would end up competition size.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    Good job Monster!! Its people like you that I like I see you got dedication. Im going to post my 1 year transformation soon too be on the look out!

  12. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post



    Well these pics are a certainly with an over-the-top pump fresh out of the gym from USP Jacked. My arms don't balloon like that all day long Weighing a solid 181.5lbs on average but my arms are alot bigger than the last pics. Tad bit of fat around the waste....Id say 13% BF.

    Anyhow, a big F-U to everyone who said low-t was all in my head and that I should see a shrink instead of a doctor. Well, let me tell you what guys...Ive been on clomid at 25mg/day for 4 weeks now and my workouts are moving forward every week little by little...I'm up to doing 3 sets of 11 with 205 on bench press and 60lb weighted dip....squatting 315 parallel. My face has been alot more oily, my nuts feel firmer, sex drive is much higher. Its not quite a night/day difference, but its strong enough to let me know that I have had a problem for a LONG time.


    I wish I never knew I had low-T....imagine another round of havoc LOL, not happening, ever, but I would end up competition size.
    Given your body size and shape you are very weak. I just got my blood tested awhile back but I had normal 800+ t levels, but I think im on the higher to middle end of strength for my size, and ive never cycled.
    I find it sort of interesting because I just recently got a blood test and my ast and alt levels were through the ROOF! I think for me it was related to supps tho, and ive been off of them for about 4 weeks. Hopefully my levels drop, and I hope your situation gets better as it seems it is.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by p00ndawg View Post
    Given your body size and shape you are very weak. I just got my blood tested awhile back but I had normal 800+ t levels, but I think im on the higher to middle end of strength for my size, and ive never cycled.
    I find it sort of interesting because I just recently got a blood test and my ast and alt levels were through the ROOF! I think for me it was related to supps tho, and ive been off of them for about 4 weeks. Hopefully my levels drop, and I hope your situation gets better as it seems it is.
    Dude you gota be kiding me right!! This guy is in way better shape than you are! I just saw your pic. You mostly fat Monster in the other hand as I see is mostly muscle!!! Come on man how are you going to say hes weak have you looked in the mirror? No offense just being realistic here.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Deadlift3 View Post
    Dude you gota be kiding me right!! This guy is in way better shape than you are! I just saw your pic. You mostly fat Monster in the other hand as I see is mostly muscle!!! Come on man how are you going to say hes weak have you looked in the mirror? No offense just being realistic here.
    Did you even read the thread? damn you're dumb. Monster even said, he was weak for his size, and is attributing to his low test levels. Which is true, case in point myself, I dont look no where near as good as him yet I lift more and he has much more muscle than I do. I was merely asserting that the issues he was having with size and strength, which he noted, werent in his head and were a real problem. Douchebag.

    Once again monster, im glad you got your problem sorted it out and cant wait to see some of your new numbers as you get stronger.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by p00ndawg View Post
    Did you even read the thread? damn you're dumb. Monster even said, he was weak for his size, and is attributing to his low test levels. Which is true, case in point myself, I dont look no where near as good as him yet I lift more and he has much more muscle than I do. I was merely asserting that the issues he was having with size and strength, which he noted, werent in his head and were a real problem. Douchebag.

    Once again monster, im glad you got your problem sorted it out and cant wait to see some of your new numbers as you get stronger.
    Pipe down and play nice kids.

    to the OP - great progress bro!! Way to be on top of things.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by p00ndawg View Post
    Did you even read the thread? damn you're dumb. Monster even said, he was weak for his size, and is attributing to his low test levels. Which is true, case in point myself, I dont look no where near as good as him yet I lift more and he has much more muscle than I do. I was merely asserting that the issues he was having with size and strength, which he noted, werent in his head and were a real problem. Douchebag.

    Once again monster, im glad you got your problem sorted it out and cant wait to see some of your new numbers as you get stronger.
    I never said I was weak for my size now lol. I WAS weak....i've gone from repping 115lb BB Press to 205 BB Press in 2 years. I just said I have a hard time getting stronger/maintaining. With all the work and dedication to diet/lifting I should have reached my current size naturally. I realized I had a problem when I EXPLODED on havoc. Its not supposed to put 30lbs on you. I didn't change my diet much at all...sure enough bloost tests show that I had low-T along with my symptoms of mood swings, lower libido than my early teen years.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    I never said I was weak for my size now lol. I WAS weak....i've gone from repping 115lb BB Press to 205 BB Press in 2 years. I just said I have a hard time getting stronger/maintaining. With all the work and dedication to diet/lifting I should have reached my current size naturally. I realized I had a problem when I EXPLODED on havoc. Its not supposed to put 30lbs on you. I didn't change my diet much at all...sure enough bloost tests show that I had low-T along with my symptoms of mood swings, lower libido than my early teen years.
    as a first pro hormone, 20-30 lbs is normal. wasn't havoc your first cycle? Regardless, glad to hear you are almost back up to speed.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by Deadlift3 View Post
    Dude you gota be kiding me right!! This guy is in way better shape than you are! I just saw your pic. You mostly fat Monster in the other hand as I see is mostly muscle!!! Come on man how are you going to say hes weak have you looked in the mirror? No offense just being realistic here.
    Not saying he is weak, or isn't weak, but really, what does how he looks have to do with strength?

    So if some guy is ripped, it automatically means they are not weak? And if another guy is fat, then he is weak? lol

    Monster- If your T doesn't hold, does it sound like he would put you on HCG mono-therapy?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    Not saying he is weak, or isn't weak, but really, what does how he looks have to do with strength?

    So if some guy is ripped, it automatically means they are not weak? And if another guy is fat, then he is weak? lol

    Monster- If your T doesn't hold, does it sound like he would put you on HCG mono-therapy?
    I asked him...he just said we would cross that bridge when we come to it.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Deadlift3 View Post
    Dude you gota be kiding me right!! This guy is in way better shape than you are! I just saw your pic. You mostly fat Monster in the other hand as I see is mostly muscle!!! Come on man how are you going to say hes weak have you looked in the mirror? No offense just being realistic here.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    I never said I was weak for my size now lol. I WAS weak....i've gone from repping 115lb BB Press to 205 BB Press in 2 years. I just said I have a hard time getting stronger/maintaining. With all the work and dedication to diet/lifting I should have reached my current size naturally. I realized I had a problem when I EXPLODED on havoc. Its not supposed to put 30lbs on you. I didn't change my diet much at all...sure enough bloost tests show that I had low-T along with my symptoms of mood swings, lower libido than my early teen years.
    you never know your limits while on your first cycle, those receptors are FRESH!!!! good job getting everything back to baseline!

  21. Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    you never know your limits while on your first cycle, those receptors are FRESH!!!! good job getting everything back to baseline!
    I wish that was the case.


    The bottom line here is there was no real "baseline". This is why I responded to havoc so well imo and gained 40lbs in a year. I have had low-T since I was a pre-teen. I'm trying to make a NEW baseline now LOL

  22. thats what I meant...your T-levels, not strength, but I didn't realize you had low levels in the first place

  23. Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    entirely possible...but completely not possible to have low bodyfat percentage with ripped muscles at the size.

    World strong man guys are just as big and probably stronger but they are all thick...theres no way you can be that big and strong with low bf unless you are using steroids to perserve muscle.

    Not really you know you will be supprised if you eat correctly you could keep gains.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    thats what I meant...your T-levels, not strength, but I didn't realize you had low levels in the first place
    Yeah we got dumbasses like POON sayning thats he is weak!! Look below... That guy Poon is full of sh*t!!!!


    pOOndawg-
    "Given your body size and shape you are very weak. I just got my blood tested awhile back but I had normal 800+ t levels, but I think im on the higher to middle end of strength for my size, and ive never cycled.
    I find it sort of interesting because I just recently got a blood test and my ast and alt levels were through the ROOF! I think for me it was related to supps tho, and ive been off of them for about 4 weeks. Hopefully my levels drop, and I hope your situation gets better as it seems it is."

  25. Quote Originally Posted by p00ndawg View Post
    Did you even read the thread? damn you're dumb. Monster even said, he was weak for his size, and is attributing to his low test levels. Which is true, case in point myself, I dont look no where near as good as him yet I lift more and he has much more muscle than I do. I was merely asserting that the issues he was having with size and strength, which he noted, werent in his head and were a real problem. Douchebag.

    Once again monster, im glad you got your problem sorted it out and cant wait to see some of your new numbers as you get stronger.
    Dude you are full of it!! How is somebody going to take advice from you dude! No disrespect you are not even in shape!! I want to get advice from guys that are lean and fit!! Not fat lards!!!! Now you wana insult me because of your uneducated stupidity!! Come on dude Monster never said he was weak. He even wrote it on this thread after seeing your statement!!

    "Given your size and shape you are very weak."

    Wtf you mean by this!! That is so retarded!!!\

    Go and hit the books my friend!!!

    P.S. If your T levels are around 800 you should have way more muscle and less fat if you say you work out like you do! Come on dude!
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