A new chapter...RickRock's path on the "DARK SIDE" begins...

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    Rick, you deading with a belt?

    Go lighter, 135 , keep the belt tight enough you can squeeze your abs against it before the lift. Keep the abs tight against the belt during the lift. Once you are comfortable with this, you should be able to move up in weight quickly.

    IMO there are no substitutes for deads....but you know I'm very partial to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by morry View Post
    Rick, you pleasuring with a belt?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by cashinova87 View Post
    RR I hate doing deads too after a lot of years playing hockey my lower back gets aggravated very easy. It sucks. I've started doing partial deads on the smith go really slow to target that area and use about 185 for 3 sets as well. So far it doesn't seem to hurt too bad and I still feel that whole back pump that DLs give u which is nice.

    Hope u get Fukn huge on this cycle and stay ripped you're gona look sick!
    I am goin to try and still do the deads if I can, but damn I feel it in my back. I will just have to do the best I can with it.

    I'm hoping this cycle will turn me into a Beast!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rahl View Post
    I'm in. Sorry I'm late but I read up. Good looking cycle freak. Think you'll be dominating the gym on this.
    Good to see you in here Rahl! Thanks for joining!

    Quote Originally Posted by scw538 View Post
    I'm in for the ride. Get jacked.
    Welcome bro!

    Quote Originally Posted by cashinova87 View Post
    Lol, day 65 (+103lbs) if it only worked that way u could reach cutler status in 1 cycle
    Quote Originally Posted by superbeast668 View Post
    Lol @ day 65 +103lbs. If only...
    could you imagine?....lol

    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    ^^^ You guys laugh, but I don't think you've ever heard of Cell Tech...
    Quote Originally Posted by superbeast668 View Post
    Ive only gained about 80lbs off that.. but it was a 3 week cycle. Couldnt handle the sides. It was too hardcore for me
    Not to many people can handle the Cell-Tech....but those that can reap the benefits...just look at Cutler who is the poster child for MuscleTech. Other than food, I think that is all he uses...

    Quote Originally Posted by cashinova87 View Post
    What u call bloat is still more cut then ill ever be lol
    Yeh, well I dont feel so cut at all right now, but I do feel bigger!

    Quote Originally Posted by NuclearLaunch View Post
    In for this one. Good luck man. Kill it as always.
    Glad you could make it!!

    Quote Originally Posted by morry View Post
    Rick, you deading with a belt?

    Go lighter, 135 , keep the belt tight enough you can squeeze your abs against it before the lift. Keep the abs tight against the belt during the lift. Once you are comfortable with this, you should be able to move up in weight quickly.

    IMO there are no substitutes for deads....but you know I'm very partial to them.

    I'm using a belt, and have it tightened up to the last hole as tight as it goes. Its the gyms belt, and I really need my own. But for now it does the job, and even though it could be a little tighter its pretty snug


    Trust me Morry, this is a hard place for me to be in. On one hand I know how crutial Deads are for growth and what they can do on this cycle. On the other hand, I know what they have done to me in the past. I ended up injured and out of the gym for a while...definitely not something I want to happen again, especially now.

    My back has made a lot of progress though, and I am a "smarter" lifter too....not trying to overdo it. So I wll probably keep the weight down and not too crazy on the deads and try to leave them in there unless things with my back go south
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    I have to respectfully disagree, if you have issues with your back, I would avoid deads.
    As much as I beleave in them, they aren't going to break your cycle, but an injury will.
    Gear doesn't make you impervious to injuries, and you don't want your efforts to go to waste.
    Good luck.
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    Day 3

    Dosed 45 mg Epi

    Weight 170 (+5)

    Weight is climbing pretty quickly as my body is taking in a lot of glycogen and water. I'm looking more full than ever, but the bloat is giving me a serious mind-fock. Its trying to tell me I'm turning into a fat bastard as my abs fade into my washed out midsection, but I'm trying to stay focused and my eyes on the goal which is to keep the muscle gain on my mind for the first half of this cycle. Its hard to believe I've gained 5 lbs in 3 days...I know this weight gain is all Epi, as it will take a little while before I notice anything at all from these long esters. I've gained an initial few lbs in the beginning on Epi before which is nothing new. Its good to know its doing its job, because what comes next is some awesome strength gains followed by some nice mass....then after that the test will be kicking in!

    My workout went pretty good for the most part. Nothing earth shattering, but I did kill it pretty good. The only thing that might have hindered me is the fact that my whole damn body is pretty fockin sore from the workouts this week. I guess thats what a two week deload followed by 5 days out of the gym then switching to a new intense form of training will do to you!!

    I have a burn day tomorrow, and I'm kinda looking forward to it for a couple reasons. First, obviously is the fact that I want to see a little bloat cleaned up to make me feel a little better that I'm not turning into a bloated fat sack of lard. I havent done cardio at all in a week and a half, which is the longest its been in a long time. I'm actually looking forward to killing the treadmill tomorrow!

    Secondly, there isnt a muscle on my body that isnt sore.....so I need a day break from the weights.

    I'm going to try my first dose of Albuterol tomorrow also. I will keep the dose low at first (3mg) just to assess how I do with it. I've never taken Clen or anything, so its uncharted territory for me.




    Legs (Quads/hamstrings/calves)

    *Quad exercises arent done rest pause due to safety and fatigue reasons. One heavy set followed by one "widowmaker" set at 20 reps per exercise

    Squats
    135x15 (warmup)
    245x10
    185x20

    Leg Press
    10 platesx12
    8 platesx20

    Hack Squat
    320x10
    230x20

    Leg curls
    180x10x4x2

    Lying single Leg curls
    70x9x4x2

    Toe raises on Leg press (5 seconds at full positive, and 10 full seconds at the negative PER REP also done rest, pause)
    8 platesx8x4x3
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddgranit View Post
    I have to respectfully disagree, if you have issues with your back, I would avoid deads.
    As much as I beleave in them, they aren't going to break your cycle, but an injury will.
    Gear doesn't make you impervious to injuries, and you don't want your efforts to go to waste.
    Good luck.
    Thanks for your input bro. I agree that an injury is the worst thing that can happen right now.I am goin to be smart and just keep the weight low and see how it goes. If I feel it straining my back too much any, I will abondon them, yet again
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    I've been visiting elsewhere, but defiantly back here to follow this. Exciting to see where this next level of AAS takes you!!
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    Hey Rick!

    I just joined the forum and you are my first sub. Good luck bro! I'm excited to see your progress. I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum.
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    I'm 310 looking for 265, lol.
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    Hey Rick - My first pin of a pretty basic test + epi 10-week cycle will be on Monday. Will be starting a log for it...we should give each other moral support!

    Only issue is that I'm not nearly as lean or ripped as you
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    Dude, that is not DC training. You should probably go back and read up on it again. I am not sure where you read you are doing 3 movements per muscle group on the same day.

    Additionally you should start on the 2 way split. EVERYONE should start on the 2 way split. It is the fastest route to size/strength gains.
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    Wut is the 2 way split?
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwellington View Post
    Wut is the 2 way split?
    Is schwell 2.0 one of your minions?

    I'm confused lol

    edit: Am I imagining things, now? Why am I not seeing that earlier in the thread (discussions on NPP)? Anyone else?
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwellington
    Wut is the 2 way split?
    A:
    Chest, shoulders, triceps, back width, back thickness

    B:
    Biceps, forearms, calves, hams, quads.

    ONE movement per muscle group done on each day. 3 versions of each day, with different movements.

    Monday:
    A1

    Wed:
    B1

    Friday:
    A2

    Monday:
    B2

    Wed:
    A3

    Friday:
    B3

    Repeat. Beat logbook. Profit.

    There is zero chance in hell you can do 3 movements per body part on the same day to complete failure and progress, and not burn the **** out.
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    They banned him
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwellington
    They banned him
    What?? Lol
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    Many lifters cease with the deads when they start getting cut, the loss of fat may cause a loss of stability as well..
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    I will just have to watch the deads
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds
    Dude, that is not DC training. You should probably go back and read up on it again. I am not sure where you read you are doing 3 movements per muscle group on the same day.

    Additionally you should start on the 2 way split. EVERYONE should start on the 2 way split. It is the fastest route to size/strength gains.

    Maybe you could help me understand where I'm wrong at. I've read a lot on it, and this is the way I understand it but I guess I could be wrong.

    The 2 way split didn't work for me since I workout 4 days per week, and its a 3 day per week routine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds

    A:
    Chest, shoulders, triceps, back width, back thickness

    B:
    Biceps, forearms, calves, hams, quads.

    ONE movement per muscle group done on each day. 3 versions of each day, with different movements.

    Monday:
    A1

    Wed:
    B1

    Friday:
    A2

    Monday:
    B2

    Wed:
    A3

    Friday:
    B3

    Repeat. Beat logbook. Profit.

    There is zero chance in hell you can do 3 movements per body part on the same day to complete failure and progress, and not burn the **** out.
    Alright....that makes sense now. Instead of 3 exercises per muscle group per day, its one exercise per group per day. No wonder I'm so focking sore...lol
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    I guess i will be doing DC the way i should be starting tomorrow...lol
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    Up another lb this morning (171)

    Now time to hit the cardio!
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13
    Up another lb this morning (171)

    Now time to hit the cardio!
    6 lbs in 3 days? Damn bro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by superbeast668

    6 lbs in 3 days? Damn bro.
    Its surprising me too
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13

    Its surprising me too
    Its making me want to get on... ive been on sd and mech for almost 2 weeks and havent gained that much
    I'm just a dude chasing a dream
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13

    Its surprising me too
    Now we have to realize Rick always keeps an incredibly strict and gruesome diet and cardio schedule. I bet your carb intake has gone up a lot the last few days and your cardio hasn't been as intense right? Let alone your just a freak!
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13

    The 2 way split didn't work for me since I workout 4 days per week, and its a 3 day per week routine
    Well then workout 3 days now. Train according to the program not out of habit. Do some abs/Cardio or other **** on your fourth day.

    The 2 way is geared towards the absolute fastest gains in size/strength. It is the split everyone should start on.

    The 3way is geared towards the super advanced looking to bring up weak areas, people in the end stages of contest prep, etc. You aren't going to make the same gains.

    The biggest failure with DC is people making changes to the program, especially right off the bat. You really need to run it as it's laid out for a LONG time before even thinking about tweaking it.

    If you have any questions lmk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveToLift

    Now we have to realize Rick always keeps an incredibly strict and gruesome diet and cardio schedule. I bet your carb intake has gone up a lot the last few days and your cardio hasn't been as intense right? Let alone your just a freak!
    Cals in general are up from where they were. The increase in cals of about 500-700 per workout day is mostly in protein and carbs. The first 3 days were all workout days too....contributing to that weight gain. Today is a cardio day, so I suspect my weight may even a drop a tad by tomorrow morning and I could be at 169ish...we will see.

    On the subject of burn days, the last 3 days I've broken fast at about this time post workout. Today it won't be until noon like traditional IF. The last 3 days got me used to eating at that time, and right now I'm hungry as a mofo! 4 more hours is gonna suck today...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds

    Well then workout 3 days now. Train according to the program not out of habit. Do some abs/Cardio or other **** on your fourth day.

    The 2 way is geared towards the absolute fastest gains in size/strength. It is the split everyone should start on.

    The 3way is geared towards the super advanced looking to bring up weak areas, people in the end stages of contest prep, etc. You aren't going to make the same gains.

    The biggest failure with DC is people making changes to the program, especially right off the bat. You really need to run it as it's laid out for a LONG time before even thinking about tweaking it.

    If you have any questions lmk.
    Thanks a lot Frank for all your input and suggestions. You are probably right and I should probably do that. I'm going to think about that a lot this weekend, but more than likely that is the route I will take and just do cardio on the 4th day. Mainly I just need to decide how my diet should be changed with that protocol. That would give me 3 workout days and 4 cardio/rest days which would be perfect at the later stages of the cycle when I want to shred up any fat gain. Right now muscle is the goal though, so an overall caloric surplus is necessary....so what I will probably do is just take one of my weekend rest days as a true rest day with no cardio for now and eat a lot more freely and more. My wife will love that....

    Thanks again, Frank
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    No worries man. I trained DC for the last 5+ years, so I am pretty familiar with it.

    Split the difference of calories between the 3 lifting days.

    or

    Eat like a training day on the 4th. The added calories will be good for recovery anyway.


    Here is a pretty good read by Dante that kinda touches on the subject. I bolded/highlighted some key points. The real moral of the story is to stick to the 2 way split as it provides the most frequency, and rest time, allowing for the most growth. Don't worry about lack of volume, or foo foo exercises. Pick the bread and butter movements, get brutally strong on them, eat, grow.

    Thread titled "Some people are just losing the concept of DC training."

    What does every starting out bodybuilder want in bodybuilding? To get the biggest the fastest way possible. What is the number one problem in bodybuilding? Getting shredded? Hamstring detail? separation? No its size. Most bodybuilders arent big enough and they need to be bigger, especially at the lower levels of the sport.

    So what puts muscle mass on a person the quickest way possible? Training progressively recovering and training progressively again, repeat repeat repeat.

    Everyone has a genetic blueprint, some will have standout arms, some have standout legs, some have standout chest and back, some have crappy everything, some have standout everything <---and this is the group you see usually go on to be very successfull bodybuilders if everything else falls into place. You dont see any of the top 10 Olympia guys walking around with no arms or a crappy back.

    What you have in the beginning is what you are going to have in the end and it is starting to piss me off seeing how many bodybuilders on these boards have their heads up their ass in reasoning of what training CAN and CANNOT do. Peter Putnams back is subpar....do you think that is a product of his training routine or his genetic blueprint? ITS HIS GENETIC BLUEPRINT. His training routine didnt produce his subpar back, just like Milos's training routine didnt produce his subpar arms, just like titus's training routine didnt produce his subpar chest. Should I assume since Jay Cutler likes to do volume training that that training routine produced Jays wider waist? Did Markus Ruhls training routine produce his subpar triceps? Every single bodybuilder can try their best to improve weak bodyparts and if you get really intricate with it there are ways to do it (both with a quirky weird exercise way and also the Ruhl way..LOL)......but your genetic blueprint both impedes you and lets you succeed in the sport.

    So back to DC training. What training routine will get your unique genetic blueprint the absolute largest muscle mass wise in the shortest time possible? IMO training bodyparts progressively 74 times a year or so beats training bodyparts progressively 52 times a year....and you quickly get up the size ladder which AGAIN is what this is all about. IN 4 years you would be doing close to 300 workouts for chest vs 200 workouts for chest in those 4 years with typical training. THATS A BIG DIFFERENCE in hypertrophy.

    So where are you at that point? Are you large enough now that if i was training you I would change things frequency wise? You could be. But that beginning phase needed to be taken. Even today I have advanced guys who were injured or even someone like Dave Henry who want to put their size back on pronto and go back to the MON WEN FRI MON or MON TUES THURS FRI split.


    So I want you to grasp something because I keep seeing people saying "this kind of training or that kind of training produces this"

    Branch Warren and Johnny Jackson are training partners and have been for many many years off and on. Branch has also lifted with another guy for almost 20 years now. Without a doubt their progressive heavy training has produced incredible thickness (especially with Branch's and Johnny's chests), Johnny's back, their delts, their traps. There is no doubt that their progressively heavy slag iron training has resulted in serious dense tissue. Now their training.....The very same training that has lead to Branch's monstrous legs has produced Johnny Jackson's achilles heel (his leg size)....is Branch's training to blame? No its the genetic blueprint....could Johnny do something that increases his quad size a little bit more. Yea he would probably have to get pretty ingenious and figure out something weird that might eke (and i do mean eke because he is near 40 now and been training a long time) a little more size out of those quads.....but lets not mince words....he is never going to even get remotely close to Branch in quad size. The very same training that produced Branch and Johnny's insane thickness over the last 20 years has produced their training partners physiquehttp://pics.musculardevelopment.com/...browse&id=4058

    Im not taking anything away from Jay Moore but obviously he is not on the level of Branch or Johnny even though he has been blasting away for decades in the gym side by side with them. Do you see monstrous quads? Do you see the 6 inch thick pecs that johnny and branch have? Should I assume then that Branch Warren's training doesnt produce thick chests and results in subpar legs because of Johnny Jacksons and Jay Moore?
    My point is this. DC training is devised to get you as large as humanly possible the absolute quickest....and at that point (if i was training you i would look at you and switch you over to something that i think can fix the weaknesses that your genetic blueprint has given us)....so hypothetically if you are 20 years old and 5'9 160 and want to be big one day.....you DC train for 4 years and now you give me a guy who is 5'9 210....awesome...i got a really good peice of clay to work with now.....whereas if you followed some 52 time a year bodypart training routine i might have a guy who is 5'9 185 and i have to tell you "well you need to put a few more years of bombing away into this bro because you still dont have the size"
    So what do i do at a point that a guy has gotten up to a good size bodybuilder? I access his physique and i go after his weaknesses. If at that point he is really good size muscle mass wise but with some weaknesses, do you know how much easier my job just got? 1000 times over easier.
    So you guys allready know this but i split the body into roughly 2 ways for guys who need muscle mass and need it the fastest way possible. For intermediate guys I still want them building muscle mass fast so i usually split the body up threeways and work on some weaker bodyparts that way with extra work.
    At the elite levels where you are talking a really big boy, someone like Cedric or Dusty or Dave or Dave Smith or Homonuncleus or someone who has alot of muscle mass packed on their frame.....I like to go with this plan of attack usually

    sunday chest and abs
    monday biceps and forearms and calves and abs
    tuesday hams and quads
    wenesday off
    thursday shoulders and triceps and abs
    friday back calves and abs
    sat off

    Why? Because their size is built...they need to increase in size still which this still does .....but the number one problem at this level is how to bring up weaker bodyparts usually.

    So a sunday chest workout might look like something like this

    incline smith press
    all warmups and then
    allout restpause set for 13-20rp

    Hoist or Hammer decline press
    all warmups and then
    allout restpause set for 13-20rp

    Flat dumbell press
    all warmups and then
    allout STRAIGHT set for 12 reps

    stretch

    rope pulldown ab crunch
    warmups and then all out set for 30 reps rest paused or 20 reps straight.

    Now if that person had a weak bodypart I would probably get pretty unique with his training...and find weird exercises that put him into mechanical positions that he hasnt done before.......for example biceps...if someone has been doing biceps for many years they have used the plethora of exercises out there...and all variations of curls are obviously not doing the trick....i have them do 3 distinct variations for biceps that they have never done before and that usually gets their biceps to respond...(I hit on this a while back with that GET WEIRD WITH IT thread i left)

    I digress.....so what you are seeing above is a gameplan. A gameplan that alot of people are forgetting about.....a gameplan alot of people on other boards who have their head up their ass just dont grasp....

    How do you become an elite bodybuilder trainingwise as quickly as possible?
    By following a routine by a professional bodybuilder who is allready massive and doing every foo foo exercise he does (even when it wont do jack **** for you right now except to impede into your recovery so you cannot train that bodypart again quickly?)
    or
    Train progressively and short with alot of frequency.....get your overall size up as quickly as possible....at that point you might have standout bodyparts and some bodyparts that are somewhat behind or heck you might be pretty even......you then reaccess your physique (AT A POINT WHERE YOU TRULY HAVE ENOUGH MUSCLE MASS THAT PEOPLE ARE ASKING IF YOU ARE A BODYBUILDER) and at an intermediate point try to keep getting bigger by compromising a little bit of frequency with widowmakers and weird exercises to get weaker bodyparts to respond.......tiem goes by.........you then get to a point where you are a pretty massive individual and frequency goes to the point where everyone else is at and you get after it getting subpar bodyparts up.

    Is the gameplan clearer? Nothing pains me more than seeing a guy with 16 inch arms wondering if he isnt doing enough volume and thats why he isnt growing.

    HERE IS THE BASIC SECRET...IM GOING TO GIVE IT TO YOU...YOUR GOING TO FEEL REALLY DUMB AFTER READING THIS SECRET BECAUSE YOU ALLREADY KNEW IT

    The road that takes you here (most importantly FOOD, supplements, and if you make that decisions someday... even drugs) and the day you

    Incline press 405 for 12 reps
    smith military press 330 for 12 reps
    deadlift 550 for 12 reps
    close grip bench press 405 for 12 reps
    deep squat 500 for 20 reps
    pulldown 400 for 15 reps
    dumbell curl 80's cleanly for 20 reps
    etc etc etc etc

    or just the road you take in trying to achieve the above will result in you being massive as a bodybuilder....within what your own genetic blueprint will allow you.....if you have ronnie colemans blueprint let me be the first one to congratulate you on your Mr Olympia wins.

    It is that simple....

    __________________
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    After reading that article about dc training its really sparked my interest. I google searched it and all i got back was "dog crap training method". Same thing? Can you link or pm me some more info on it frank?
    I'm just a dude chasing a dream
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    Frank has it right, in regards to DC training. If you need an actual reference, I've been on DC for about a year, and have been logging some supps for the past month or two that detail my days. As an example A2 day for me:

    GreenEarth Gets Focused with Neogenix NeuroSurge!

    As you can see, you only hit each body group with one exercise. The concept is that you go to absolute failure on every set, getting anywhere between 11-20 RP reps (dependent on body part). You usually do 3 sets, so your hope would be to get 8 or 9 reps on the first set, drop the weights and take your 15 breaths, pick them up and get 4 to 5 reps, drop the weights and take your 15 breaths, pick them up and get 2 to 3 reps, done. Total, you've done 14-17 reps using the rest-pause method. Since each set took you to failure, being able to do another exercise for that same body part should be damn near to impossible - you should be entirely fatigued.

    It's a great routine, I personally have fallen in love with it. Workouts usually don't last over 45 minutes or so, especially if you're hitting it with the short rest and intensity you should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by superbeast668 View Post
    After reading that article about dc training its really sparked my interest. I google searched it and all i got back was "dog crap training method". Same thing? Can you link or pm me some more info on it frank?
    Dogg Crapp training is it's official name. The best place to read up on it is on intense muscle, which is Dante Trudel's forum. The Dogg Pound, specifically:

    http://www.intensemuscle.com/forumdisplay.php?f=45

    If you searched google for it, you likely wound up with this blogspot:

    http://dc-training.blogspot.com/

    The blogspot is good reading material, I would start by reading that because it presents a good recap of what DC training is, but make sure to hone your knowledge of the program on the official forum for it. Dante has said many times that there is no official "DC Approved" exercise list, although that blogspot attempts to list many that they see as worthwhile.
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    Great info Frank. That is my plan now, and sticking to the 2 day split as true as possible is what I'm going to do. It all makes much more sense the more you read into it.

    So the new plan is lifting days Mon, Wed, Fri with cardio days Tues, Thurs, Sun. Saturday is going to be a rest day for now that I will be eating like a workout day.
    Recoverbro Elite
    "This is what we've been working on"
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenEarth
    Frank has it right, in regards to DC training. If you need an actual reference, I've been on DC for about a year, and have been logging some supps for the past month or two that detail my days. As an example A2 day for me:

    GreenEarth Gets Focused with Neogenix NeuroSurge!

    As you can see, you only hit each body group with one exercise. The concept is that you go to absolute failure on every set, getting anywhere between 11-20 RP reps (dependent on body part). You usually do 3 sets, so your hope would be to get 8 or 9 reps on the first set, drop the weights and take your 15 breaths, pick them up and get 4 to 5 reps, drop the weights and take your 15 breaths, pick them up and get 2 to 3 reps, done. Total, you've done 14-17 reps using the rest-pause method. Since each set took you to failure, being able to do another exercise for that same body part should be damn near to impossible - you should be entirely fatigued.

    It's a great routine, I personally have fallen in love with it. Workouts usually don't last over 45 minutes or so, especially if you're hitting it with the short rest and intensity you should be.

    Dogg Crapp training is it's official name. The best place to read up on it is on intense muscle, which is Dante Trudel's forum. The Dogg Pound, specifically:

    http://www.intensemuscle.com/forumdisplay.php?f=45

    If you searched google for it, you likely wound up with this blogspot:

    http://dc-training.blogspot.com/

    The blogspot is good reading material, I would start by reading that because it presents a good recap of what DC training is, but make sure to hone your knowledge of the program on the official forum for it. Dante has said many times that there is no official "DC Approved" exercise list, although that blogspot attempts to list many that they see as worthwhile.
    Appreciate bro. Got some reading and experimenting to do now
    I'm just a dude chasing a dream
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenEarth View Post
    Couple things I noticed.

    1. Flyes is a pretty poor choice for a chest movement. Exercise selection is paramount. You want things you can progress the most on. It is like this. What do you think you can make more progress on a tricep kick back, or a close grip bench press? Well I can tell you this. I can close grip bp 315 for reps, but can't do **** with a tricep kick back..heh

    2. You have the width/thickness mixed up. Rowing is a thickness movement.

    3. Thickness movements typically aren't rest paused. I guess in this case with a machine row it isn't uber risky but personally I like to use the one heavy set of 4-8, and one lighter set of 8-12 on thickness movements.

    4. DB pressing movements(db bench, shoulder press, etc) do in the 20-30rp range. If you do them in the 11-15 range it becomes near impossible to even get the db's into place once the weight gets heavy, on your second/3rd set. IF you are going to all out failure on the previous sets that is.

    HTH
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    Im in Rick! I just started my cycle and was going to run MAST with my test but the dude fell through. So I will watch your freakish results....
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    subbed. this will be epic
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    Hey Rick not sure why my subscription was not updating here. Yeah as Frank said you misread that info I sent. He seems to have you on the right track now. Couple warm up sets then the Work set - RP - Rp on to next body part. No wonder you were so sore...
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
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    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/252598-kleen-olympus-labs.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    Couple things I noticed.

    1. Flyes is a pretty poor choice for a chest movement. Exercise selection is paramount. You want things you can progress the most on. It is like this. What do you think you can make more progress on a tricep kick back, or a close grip bench press? Well I can tell you this. I can close grip bp 315 for reps, but can't do **** with a tricep kick back..heh

    2. You have the width/thickness mixed up. Rowing is a thickness movement.

    3. Thickness movements typically aren't rest paused. I guess in this case with a machine row it isn't uber risky but personally I like to use the one heavy set of 4-8, and one lighter set of 8-12 on thickness movements.

    4. DB pressing movements(db bench, shoulder press, etc) do in the 20-30rp range. If you do them in the 11-15 range it becomes near impossible to even get the db's into place once the weight gets heavy, on your second/3rd set. IF you are going to all out failure on the previous sets that is.

    HTH
    1. I can see where you're coming from on flies, and I agree...I think I may have seen your example of the tricep kick said by Dante, is that right? My reasoning was having another movement for my chest. The type of stretch you get on flies is something that is unique to that chest exercise, you know? I have an A1, A2, and A3 day. My other two chest exercises are DB Flat Bench and Incline BB Bench, so those are kind of more of the "mass gainers" that most people think of. However, you're right that DBs progress very slowly on flies. How would you feel about me hitting a Nautilus Fly Machine that I could progress on a weight stack quickly on? Rather than the DBs. Again, I'm trying to preserve that great contraction + stretch that I find very unique to flies.

    2. I also mix those up lol. To be fair though, I am always hitting both.

    3. Hmm...I really like my thickness movements done as RP, especially since they're all done through some machine (a lower back injury to my L6 prevents both deadlifts and bent-over rows ). I'll try your method on my upcoming blast.

    4. Had planned to just completely ditch DB Shoulder Presses for the next blast, but lowering the weight and raising the reps may not be a terrible idea.
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