A Legend Returns...an epic Morry Log NPP/Masteron/TNE/Test/Tren Xtreme

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    This is a sick cycle, will be following along as I am really curious about your thoughts on NPP and Masteron.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).

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    OK... I'm SUB'd here as well, is this going to be the LOG or the other one? I'm confused, not hard to do, LoL!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post
    as expected great discussion and fun in this thread.I can smell another classic thread in the making
    All the ones contributing are making it that way. All I'm doing is pinning gear, eating right, working out like an animal and logging the sh1t out of it. The rest is all up to you guys.


    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    I slack for a day or two and look how this thread has blown up!!
    Re-subbed, herr morry.


    You gonna kick so much friggin' ass!!!


    On a side note:
    Do you have a girlfriend right now? Because the combination of Masteron and Caber is gonna transform you into the horniest of horn-dogs out there.


    Give it to her good, ol' boy!!
    Ummm, I wouldn't say I have a steady girlfriend. There are too many to pick from. Why settle on one? They'll get it just the same


    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    Nice update and great workout. Keep doing your thing man. Can't wait to see what the coming weeks bring!
    Thanks. You and I both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hcc5881 View Post
    Cant wait to see the before, first week, and second week pics!
    You didn't say no homo.


    Quote Originally Posted by monstermash View Post
    Dont wanna lose this thread. Sub'n
    Welcome!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I keep thinking about giving Masteron a whirl, but still haven't.
    We'll find out what I think in another 4 weeks or so. At 200 mg EOD, I imagine I'll start feeling it the first week I'm on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    This is a sick cycle, will be following along as I am really curious about your thoughts on NPP and Masteron.
    It will all be right here. Thanks for following and welcom.


    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    OK... I'm SUB'd here as well, is this going to be the LOG or the other one? I'm confused, not hard to do, LoL!
    Lmao, I think you got it figured out now.Welcome my friend.
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
    •   
       

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    Day 4

    weight 201 (+4)

    I pinned 300mg of Test cyp this morning. Pinned TNE and took Xtreme as I have been.

    The weight is up because the carbs I added. Yup, I broke Primal today. I kept getting light headed bc I haven't been bringing my lunch, just cooking a big breakfast and eating a yogurt during the day. This isn't going to be enough. The anabolics are requiring a lot more cals. So I ran out, grabbed a sandwich and my light headedness went away. I also waited to eat my yogurt until rright before I took the 60 mg of Xtreme. This extra food solved the lethargy entirely. I'm in a rush to shed the fat, but the fact is, my muscles are hungry and the fat will come off regardless. I'm upping cals. I won't be eating complex carbs if I can help it. The extra cals will be healthy fats, proteins and fruits. I'll switch things around and let you guys know.
    I'm pretty sure the weight is just water weight from adding the carbs.

    The extra cals made my workout a breeze. I went easy as it was my second day of chest. Hit the BB at 275x3 and pyramided down from there. I'm also incorporating grapple twist for my obliques. I'm loving these. I think I'm starting to feel the other compounds. The workout today was too easy, but the weight was no joke (not real heavy bit def not light). I'm hoping this is the NPP and test C kicking in. I think I have enough TNE for at least one more day. Still no estro sides. The low dose of letro is doing its job.

    I used a heating pad at work for my back and took some Aleve. I know naproxen can lower the ability to build muscle but I can't afford the inflammation. My back didn't ache a bit during the workout. I'll be icing and putting the heating pad on it back and forth to sooth the pull. It isn't bad and I think if I'm careful it won't be a problem.

    When I got home, i was ready to workout again. This cycle is going great so far. I just need to focus on form, nutrition and using these anabolics to my greatest advantage. I'll stop worrying about getting a few point of BF of so quick and we'll see what happens. Eating Primal keeps me dry as it is. I can tell I'm a bit bloated tonight. We'll see how the weight is tomorrow after the workout. I won't be taking in any complex carbs tomorrow.

    Cardio was the same, 10 before, 10 after.

    I'll pin NPP in the morning. Took caber this morning. Will take letro before I go to bed.

    Tomorrow is Legs and Arms. I'll be using machines and not free squat.

    Pics on Monday.


    Morry
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
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    This log gives an entire new meaning to attention to detail. Great Job!!

    Cannot wait to see the pics. (No Homo)
    "THE DARK SIDE"
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    glad to see someone else who enjoys some femara
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    Subd! Looking forward to seeing how it all goes! Sounds like a mad cycle!
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    Alright I guess this is my official sub. I swear I did this earlier but alright. Kill it Morry. In to see some starting pics.
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    Great stuff Morry!
    Recoverbro Elite
    "This is what we've been working on"
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    Quote Originally Posted by morry View Post
    I kept getting light headed bc I haven't been bringing my lunch, just cooking a big breakfast and eating a yogurt during the day. This isn't going to be enough. The anabolics are requiring a lot more cals. So I ran out, grabbed a sandwich and my light headedness went away. I also waited to eat my yogurt until rright before I took the 60 mg of Xtreme. This extra food solved the lethargy entirely. I'm in a rush to shed the fat, but the fact is, my muscles are hungry and the fat will come off regardless. I'm upping cals. I won't be eating complex carbs if I can help it. The extra cals will be healthy fats, proteins and fruits. I'll switch things around and let you guys know.

    I'm hoping this is the NPP and test C kicking in.


    Morry
    Good call on eating something with that Tren-Xtreme.......it requires it. You can't starve yourself and expect strength gains.......or any gains for that matter. Eat.......eat sensibly......but eat!!


    And you know that Test-Cyp ain't kickin' yet.........it takes up to 4 weeks or slightly longer to truly be kicking.
    What you're experiencing is the NPP and the TNE rearing their frightful heads!!

    I wish you had some more TNE or at least a little Prop to take for the next couple of weeks.
    But that Tren-Xtreme will be kicking for you regardless.


    Thunder
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

    "Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High."
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    Any pain in that TNE injection?
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    I agree with the above. YOU need to eat more morry.. Stop worrying about the girly figure and get yo weight up son! Lets see morry at 220
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    Why no complex carbs?
    You are born small and weak, you die small and weak...How you look in-between is entirely up to you...
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    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod
    Good call on eating something with that Tren-Xtreme.......it requires it. You can't starve yourself and expect strength gains.......or any gains for that matter. Eat.......eat sensibly......but eat!!

    And you know that Test-Cyp ain't kickin' yet.........it takes up to 4 weeks or slightly longer to truly be kicking.
    What you're experiencing is the NPP and the TNE rearing their frightful heads!!

    I wish you had some more TNE or at least a little Prop to take for the next couple of weeks.
    But that Tren-Xtreme will be kicking for you regardless.

    Thunder
    Agreed on the diet. It was a much needed modification.

    On to the test cyp and TNE.
    (Estimates)
    Test cyp half life: 8 days
    TNE: 39 hours (very recent study, used to be thought of as shorter)

    Using the half life equation and factoring in ester weight, my body has metabolized roughly 200 mg test cyp and 91mg TNE.

    By my next cyp pin, that will be 455 mg which is slightly above the 600 mg test cyp desired level. Meaning ill have hit stable levels by day 8 and be a third of the way there by day 4. This is why I frontloaded so heavy (1.3 grams in first week) and chose 37.5 of TNE per day.

    That being said, you have a boat load more of experience than me. What are your thoughts with a frontload keeping half life and ester weight in mind?
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by morry View Post
    Agreed on the diet. It was a much needed modification.

    On to the test cyp and TNE.
    (Estimates)
    Test cyp half life: 8 days
    TNE: 39 hours (very recent study, used to be thought of as shorter)

    Using the half life equation and factoring in ester weight, my body has metabolized roughly 200 mg test cyp and 91mg TNE.

    By my next cyp pin, that will be 455 mg which is slightly above the 600 mg test cyp desired level. Meaning ill have hit stable levels by day 8 and be a third of the way there by day 4. This is why I frontloaded so heavy (1.3 grams in first week) and chose 37.5 of TNE per day.

    That being said, you have a boat load more of experience than me. What are your thoughts with a frontload keeping half life and ester weight in mind?
    Even though the half-life of Cyp is around 8 days, that doesn't mean that you will start realizing and experiencing the gains from it at day 8. Search the boards.......most all users testify that they don't really "feel" Cyp or Enanthate truly kicking in until around week 4 or so. I know it's true for me. Now if you had been cruising Cyp at a lower dose, you wouldn't have this wait time. You would feel the increased dosages the very first week.

    On a similar note, you know that D-Bol's half-life is around 6 hours.......that does NOT mean you will start seeing gains from it that quick.
    It's takes about 2 weeks to start seeing and feeling the effects.

    Even the TNE takes about a week to start feeling its effects in the gym......and bedroom. ha ha But once it gets revved up, you can feel the dosage you pin about 1.5 to 2 hours......pretty quick stuff.


    And you know this...........mayne!! lol
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

    "Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High."
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    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod
    Even though the half-life of Cyp is around 8 days, that doesn't mean that you will start realizing and experiencing the gains from it at day 8. Search the boards.......most all users testify that they don't really "feel" Cyp or Enanthate truly kicking in until around week 4 or so. I know it's true for me. Now if you had been cruising Cyp at a lower dose, you wouldn't have this wait time. You would feel the increased dosages the very first week.

    On a similar note, you know that D-Bol's half-life is around 6 hours.......that does NOT mean you will start seeing gains from it that quick.
    It's takes about 2 weeks to start seeing and feeling the effects.

    Even the TNE takes about a week to start feeling its effects in the gym......and bedroom. ha ha But once it gets revved up, you can feel the dosage you pin about 1.5 to 2 hours......pretty quick stuff.

    And you know this...........mayne!! lol
    Well said.

    The stuff I've read let me know front loading decreased this time to 4-8 days. I'm not saying you aren't right bc I'm certain you are. I'm just looking to understand.
    Frontloading with double the dosage still means it will be week 3 or 4 before I start to feel it?
    Either way, thank god I had TNE and Xtreme.
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hcc5881
    IN THEORY, frontloading makes perfect sense. In reality, i am not sure if it works or not. I frontloaded my current cycle but i never get that "feeling" of being on or off so without drawing blood, i simply don't know. I would like to see a half way decent study on frontloading where the user gets blood results every 3 days for about 2 weeks or so... Hell, i would probably even fund it. I would do it myself but I am already midway through cycle. There are soooo many rumors about frontloading, we should write science and not bro science. A study like this would be perfect.
    That being said, Nandrolone is also more anabolic than test on paper. But we know that most people experience better gains through test than nandrolone. Again, I want to run a frontload study. Many people would benefit from it. Anyone interested, PM me.
    You and I both.
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakaveliThaDon
    Any pain in that TNE injection?
    Nope. Micronized and suspended in oil. Smooth as butter. Putting it in the delt too.
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarbellBeast
    I agree with the above. YOU need to eat more morry.. Stop worrying about the girly figure and get yo weight up son! Lets see morry at 220
    I know, I know. No more, I swear. 220, Jesus!!! Maybe tho....
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillsRgood
    Why no complex carbs?
    Primal mayne.
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by morry View Post
    Well said.

    The stuff I've read let me know front loading decreased this time to 4-8 days. I'm not saying you aren't right bc I'm certain you are. I'm just looking to understand.
    Frontloading with double the dosage still means it will be week 3 or 4 before I start to feel it?
    Either way, thank god I had TNE and Xtreme.
    I'm not 100% sold on the philosophy of the front-load.....not with long esters anyway.

    It may decrease wait time some........maybe a week. But I sincerely doubt that one can speed up the efficacy of gear simply by using more.
    To me it means that when it does kick (still at around week 3) it will be more powerful since you're using greater dosages.

    If ones wants to see quicker gains and faster effects, one should incorporate the shorter esters like Prop or no esters at all like TNE.

    This doesn't mean that there's no sense in front-loading.
    Hel, I blast and cruise and yet when I start a new blast, I'll employ higher dosages those first few weeks in order to see gains.
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    I think overall using an extra x ml to frontload doesn't partcularly give better results than using those ml at the end.
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
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    Where was this recent study of the half life of TNE being 39 hours? Now that I would be interested to read...
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL
    I think overall using an extra x ml to frontload doesn't partcularly give better results than using those ml at the end.
    It's not about better results necessarily, it is about decreasing time to stable blood levels which MAY be beneficial for results.

    TG is right tho. The jury is out....
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakaveliThaDon View Post
    Where was this recent study of the half life of TNE being 39 hours? Now that I would be interested to read...
    He mentioned that this TNE is oil-based........therefore taking longer to break down. I'm still guessing that water-based TNE will have a shorter half-life and kick in quicker.
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by morry View Post
    It's not about better results necessarily, it is about decreasing time to stable blood levels which MAY be beneficial for results.

    TG is right tho. The jury is out....
    Not necessarily saying I'm right. I'm just trying to use some logic is all. ha ha

    Really though, it makes perfect sense to me to front-load with short-esters only......or no esters at all like TNE and tren-suspensions.

    I think good front-loaders would include:
    Test-Prop
    TNE (test no ester)
    Tren-suspension
    Tren-Ace
    Test-Ace
    Mast-Prop
    NPP (nandrolone phenly-propionate)
    Winstrol
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

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    Attachment 43159
    Quote Originally Posted by MakaveliThaDon View Post
    Where was this recent study of the half life of TNE being 39 hours? Now that I would be interested to read...
    It is done on horses bro.

    Very little research is actually done on human with AAS unless they have cancer or AIDS.


    LINK TO THE STUDY ABOVE!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    Not necessarily saying I'm right. I'm just trying to use some logic is all. ha ha
    Nah, bro. right in the respect that I think it will be hard to tell. Experience is key is what I'm saying and you've got it brother.
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    Good call on eating something with that Tren-Xtreme.......it requires it. You can't starve yourself and expect strength gains.......or any gains for that matter. Eat.......eat sensibly......but eat!!


    And you know that Test-Cyp ain't kickin' yet.........it takes up to 4 weeks or slightly longer to truly be kicking.
    What you're experiencing is the NPP and the TNE rearing their frightful heads!!

    I wish you had some more TNE or at least a little Prop to take for the next couple of weeks.
    But that Tren-Xtreme will be kicking for you regardless.


    Thunder
    Thunder isn't the half life of Cyp 2 weeks, shouldn't he feel some effects before then like aggression, alpha male, increased drive and libido, just not any noticeable gains or much strength from it? I assume that is what you mean. You definitely know more about the subject so asking not correcting.

    Morry sorry for the absence...
    I somehow didn't get a notification on this thread until today. Kind of weird, was wondering why it hadn't been updated considering how many of us are following it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Thunder isn't the half life of Cyp 2 weeks, shouldn't he feel some effects before then like aggression, alpha male, increased drive and libido, just not any noticeable gains or much strength from it? I assume that is what you mean. You definitely know more about the subject so asking not correcting.

    Morry sorry for the absence...
    I somehow didn't get a notification on this thread until today. Kind of weird, was wondering why it hadn't been updated considering how many of us are following it.
    Never mind I stepped away from the computer to work and then hit reply when i got back. Now I see all of this has been discussed at length.
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    my bad for not replying to ur pm morry... haven't found much time to get on... late sub... got some reading to do
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    Quote Originally Posted by morry View Post
    It's not about better results necessarily, it is about decreasing time to stable blood levels which MAY be beneficial for results.

    TG is right tho. The jury is out....
    hmmm but even in that case, frontloading with 1g on a total cycle of 500mg/wk for 12 weeks vs saving that 1g for 2 extra weeks at the end to make 14 weeks still has you at stable blood levels longer wouldn't it?

    I'll agree that using some prop the first 2-4 weeks isn't a bad way to go about it though.
    This space for rent

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    morry I noticed you're not using serms. im the same way.

    i also don't workout week 1 of PCT and in week 2 i do resistance band training only for muscle pumps. I also up my calories by a little.

    for the average natural joe working out will spike cortisol levels and through resting testosterone will kick in and its effects will outweigh the cortisol effects

    for the steroid user in the first weeks of PCT... letting cortisol levels rise by lifting hard and heavy like you're still "on" in the presence of low testosterone will just eat your muscle away imo

    that has been my experience after a few PCT's
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hcc5881 View Post
    its funny you said that... my last cycle, i didn't work out much the first 2 weeks of pct then worked out moderately for the last 2 and i kept my gains better that cycle than any other cycle... hmm... you might be on to something.
    I agree.... "Ahaaa...ahaaa...ahaaa!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    morry I noticed you're not using serms. im the same way.

    i also don't workout week 1 of PCT and in week 2 i do resistance band training only for muscle pumps. I also up my calories by a little.

    for the average natural joe working out will spike cortisol levels and through resting testosterone will kick in and its effects will outweigh the cortisol effects

    for the steroid user in the first weeks of PCT... letting cortisol levels rise by lifting hard and heavy like you're still "on" in the presence of low testosterone will just eat your muscle away imo

    that has been my experience after a few PCT's
    That's very interesting, is that the case all the time though? I mean you hear some people training hard during PCT but keep their gains or most of them? I never thought of it that way good post.
    I hope everybody thinks i'm crazy, because you cannot be a sane person and go through the type of pain i am willing to put myself through to be where i want to be, Once I completely win the war between my mind and body, my reign will begin. ~Me
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    morry I noticed you're not using serms. im the same way.

    i also don't workout week 1 of PCT and in week 2 i do resistance band training only for muscle pumps. I also up my calories by a little.

    for the average natural joe working out will spike cortisol levels and through resting testosterone will kick in and its effects will outweigh the cortisol effects

    for the steroid user in the first weeks of PCT... letting cortisol levels rise by lifting hard and heavy like you're still "on" in the presence of low testosterone will just eat your muscle away imo

    that has been my experience after a few PCT's
    Good input bro, testosterone inhibits the adrenals from producing cortisol, thus lowering cortisol output.
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    love the discussion gentleman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hcc5881 View Post
    This is the way Morry operates. I would say his logs are very close to science. They would be perfect for research. His OCD is our gain!!
    This log looks like it is going to be a great benefit for me and the AM community. Greatly Appreciative!!!
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    Front loading, SERMS and cortisol


    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Thunder isn't the half life of Cyp 2 weeks, shouldn't he feel some effects before then like aggression, alpha male, increased drive and libido, just not any noticeable gains or much strength from it? I assume that is what you mean. You definitely know more about the subject so asking not correcting.

    Morry sorry for the absence...
    I somehow didn't get a notification on this thread until today. Kind of weird, was wondering why it hadn't been updated considering how many of us are following it.
    No worries brotha. I knew you'd be around.

    I believe the half life of cyp is 8 days on average.


    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    hmmm but even in that case, frontloading with 1g on a total cycle of 500mg/wk for 12 weeks vs saving that 1g for 2 extra weeks at the end to make 14 weeks still has you at stable blood levels longer wouldn't it?

    I'll agree that using some prop the first 2-4 weeks isn't a bad way to go about it though.
    I see the logic, but here is what I'm thinking. First off there isn't enough research to find out for sure. All we have is our experiences, but here is what I'm thinking.

    TG is on to the right idea. I think I'm confusing the subjects. There is a difference between blood plasma levels and AR saturation resulting in increased muscle growth and other telltale signs that elevated Test (or other AAS) are present. I think I will "feel" the cyp much sooner bc I did front load. Check out a chart showing how long it can take to get blood levels up to 500mg a week. I believe it is 8 weeks. So just from my thoughts, I'd say if most guys start to feel it at weeks 3 and 4, then you have to have an increasing saturation of the receptors for 3 or 4 weeks of around 250 mg to start "feeling" it. The problem with this generalization is the saturation is hardly linear. Regardless of being able to pinpoint it, according to half life, I'll have stable levels of 600 mg (I'm counting the ester) by next week. Now if it takes another week of that level for the receptors to start causing enough change that I feel a noticeable different, then that's it. I saved myself a week.
    I think saying only short esters is worth front loading may just mean it is "easier" to frontload these bc the short half lives. The way I understand the esters are they deteriorate at a linear, predictable manner. So at hour one, the ester starts to deteriorate at a molecular level, right? So the more molecules, the more free test is released every hour that passes. The way I think some people perceive this is no matter how much you pin, you cannot increase the amount of test being released bc the ester releases all at once. The problem I see with this is I believe the molecules each have their own ester attached and cleave releasing the test slowly. The more molecules, the more test.
    The way I see it, it isn't like a hose pouring water that only a certain amount of water can pass regardless, I think the more test cyp the bigger the hose altogether allowing more water to pass. The diameter of the "hose" is dependent on the dose. Is that a stupid analogy?

    Shorter esters have less weight releasing more test faster, right? So frontloading these would have a much greater effect than a longer ester. Less to cleave, more test to metabolize. This is going to put more test in the system faster and in turn saturating the the receptors and causing the effects we all love from hormones.

    Now I can't prove any of this. I just spent all day thinking about it and this is what I came up with. What are the thoughts swirling around?

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    morry I noticed you're not using serms. im the same way.

    i also don't workout week 1 of PCT and in week 2 i do resistance band training only for muscle pumps. I also up my calories by a little.

    for the average natural joe working out will spike cortisol levels and through resting testosterone will kick in and its effects will outweigh the cortisol effects

    for the steroid user in the first weeks of PCT... letting cortisol levels rise by lifting hard and heavy like you're still "on" in the presence of low testosterone will just eat your muscle away imo

    that has been my experience after a few PCT's
    CM, I knew you would show up when you had time. Welcome and thank you for contributing.

    I totally agree with the NO SERM approach. I'm not saying it doesn't work for guys bc plenty report it does. Here is my thinking tho. SERMS are selective estrogen receptor modulators, right? Well the fact is they are seen as estrogens in the body, they just don't "act" like estrogen. The body combats this thinking there isn't enough estrogen, produces more aromatase and in turn estrogen. Now you have tons and tons of estrogen in your body when you stop taking it, not good IMO. Plus all that estrogen could have stayed test. What about an AI? AI only keep estrogen from be created through aromatase, right? So your body combats this by creating more and more aromatase. When you get off an AI all that aromatase is still floating and causes that common rebound effect you hear from AIs like letro. Letro does increase endogenous test by keeping it from converting, but as soon as you stop taking it, that increase is your enemy. What about aromasin? It permanently inactivates aromatase? Now there's a thought. Your body combats this by producing more endogenous test. It can't convert without aromatase. The aromatase cannot be freed back up once aromasin attaches to it. So you are tricking your body into producing more test, a slight amount of estrogen (bc aromasin is not as powerful of an AI as letro) and allowing the levels to stabilize more naturally and slowly. This is why I don't use serms. Everytime I have I end up having some estro related issue. Using a negative feedback mechanism has worked well for me.

    The cortisol theory I like. That is very insightful. maybe I'll take some time off the first week of PCT and put this to my own test

    Quote Originally Posted by thetinyguy View Post
    That's very interesting, is that the case all the time though? I mean you hear some people training hard during PCT but keep their gains or most of them? I never thought of it that way good post.
    I think this is going to be individually specific. Were these guys taking anti cortisol supps? How was their insulin sensitivity? Did the hop on to SARMS right after? Were they taking peptides? Are they one of the lucky ones to get their test levels back quick enough they don't really "lose" a ton of their gains?
    I didn't take a week of but I was on S1, CJC 1295, aromasin, and test boosters. I was also on HCG during my cycle.
    Quote Originally Posted by MakaveliThaDon View Post
    Good input bro, testosterone inhibits the adrenals from producing cortisol, thus lowering cortisol output.
    Agreed, CM is the man.

    Quote Originally Posted by xFRACTION View Post
    love the discussion gentleman
    I'm digging this sh1t too. You guys got me thinking. Probably too much, but fock it, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
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    Day 5

    weight 202 (+5)

    Legs/ Arms

    I pinned 100 mg NPP this morning. Still taking 90 mg of Xtreme divided into two doses. Pinned TNE, 37.5 about 2 hours before workout.

    I ate plenty today. I'll leave it at that

    I was worried about my lower back, so at lunch today I stopped in and grabbed a belt. I finally own a weight belt. I didn't want to have to wear one so I could put as much stress on my body without any extra help, but honestly, I feel stupid now. i should have gotten one a long time ago. They freaking rock. I said I wasn't going to Squat? Ha! I did, not real heavy but I did. Plus I had a murderous workout. 10 min HISS before and after and then this workout

    Circuit 1

    Squats 135x10, 225x10, 225x10, 225x10
    Ez bar Curls 70x8, 70x 8, 70x6
    Skull Crushers 70x12, 70x10, 70x10
    Closed grip bench with the EZ bar 70x12, 70x10, 70x10

    1 warm up set, 3 regular sets

    Circuit 2

    Tricep extension 110x10, 110x8, 110x9
    Tricep Pull downs 110x8, 110x7, 110x5
    Calf Raises 110x14, 120x12, 120x11
    Hammer Bicep Curls with DB 40x11, 40x10, 40x8
    Lunges (holding 50db in each hand) x10, x10, x9

    Circuit 3

    Hammer Grip Pullups (BW +45) x8, x6, x5
    Hamstring Curls (don't remember the weight, I rarely use this machine but may start using it more) x 12, x12, x12
    Leg Extensions, the whole machine, x12, x12, x12

    Circuit 4

    Leg Press 3ppsx20, 5ppsx20, 5ppsx16
    Dips (BW+45) x9, x10, x9 (chest was still tight from yesterday
    Preacher Curls DB, 40x10, x9, x9


    I hit the cardio at the end and wasn't really all that tired. i could have worked out longer, but I had been there just under 2 hours. It was time to go and eat some dinner. I ate a huge dinner and I'm rested. I'm meeting a friend in the morning to hit back and shoulders again. I'm not sure if I'll go running or not. I have been on the weekends, but we'll see. I most likely will run on Sunday.

    No pin of NPP or Test C tomorrow.

    I'll pin the rest of the TNE though and take the Xtreme as I have been. Took some letro tonight, still low, low dose. No tenderness from the TNE.

    Everything is going as well as can be expected. Upping cals def made a huge difference. I wasn't starving myself by any means. i was eating a ton of food, but in two meals. With all the anabolics though, it wasn't nearly enough. If I had to guess, I'm getting around 4000 cals a day, maybe a little more.

    Can't wait to tear up some more weights tomorrow.


    Morry
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/193259-begins-morry-vs.html
  

  
 

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