The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by TurningGreen View Post
    I hate that I'm blowing this thread up, but this is what I have arrived at. Please critique so I can make necessary alterations.

    TurningGreen Lean Gains Protocol

    BMR -2,116cal.
    TDEE -3428cal.
    20% increase/deficit -685cal.

    Workout Days -4,113cal
    50%carb, 30%protein, 20%fat
    Meal 1 20% total cal. -822cal
    Meal 2 60% total cal. -2,647cal
    Meal 3 20% total cal. -822cal

    Rest Days -2,742cal
    50%protein, 30%fat, 20%carb
    Meal 1 20% total cal. -548cal
    Meal 2 60% total cal. -1,645cal
    Meal 3 20% total cal. -548cal
    I'm not sure if your goal is cut,recomp, or lean gain (with those numbers lean gain I assume) but even trying to add in LBM with little to no fat gain those numbers seem too high. I'm not sure of your weight but my numbers are at around 3k/1800 for workout days/rest days and I'm recomping. Seems to work good there as my weight has been anywhere from 170-173 for a few weeks and I continue to lean out and add in LBM.

    I'd be curious on others input but my guess is your Cal's are too high
    Recoverbro Elite
    "This is what we've been working on"


  2. Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    I'm not sure if your goal is cut,recomp, or lean gain (with those numbers lean gain I assume) but even trying to add in LBM with little to no fat gain those numbers seem too high. I'm not sure of your weight but my numbers are at around 3k/1800 for workout days/rest days and I'm recomping. Seems to work good there as my weight has been anywhere from 170-173 for a few weeks and I continue to lean out and add in LBM.

    I'd be curious on others input but my guess is your Cal's are too high
    I think he's factoring in an average of 1300 cals of activity which is about double mine.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    I'm not sure if your goal is cut,recomp, or lean gain (with those numbers lean gain I assume) but even trying to add in LBM with little to no fat gain those numbers seem too high. I'm not sure of your weight but my numbers are at around 3k/1800 for workout days/rest days and I'm recomping. Seems to work good there as my weight has been anywhere from 170-173 for a few weeks and I continue to lean out and add in LBM.

    I'd be curious on others input but my guess is your Cal's are too high
    My goal is to recomp RickRock, my current weight is 209. I wasnt sure, but that seemed to be an azz load of calories. Should I recalculate using an approximate number of calories burned during workout added to my BMR?

    4wk Androhard/Androlean 4wkPCT log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443

  4. The way bloating comes off with this diet is nuts... On a thursday I was 204... after a weekend of drinking and eating like shxt I was 214 on monday... 72 hours later I was down to 202!

    So far though I would say this is a healthy cut/recomp strategy. Ive only lost 2 lbs a week on average but yet I feel like im leaning out considerably. I wish I would have taken pictures when I started LG because somedays I look in the mirror like "holy shxt!" and feel lean. I still have a good 2+ inches Id like to lose of my midsection because I carry fat horribly in my lower back

    The one thing I noticed with LG is not so much that I feel hungry or even limited so much as to what to eat... but that I almost want to eat healthier. Like my body is telling me I need to eat good stuff instead of craving all the crap... which might have to do with not limiting carbs as much as I have in the past... after about 2 weeks of limiting carbs my body goes nuts for sweets and I gain everything back.

    I also have found it easy to extend my fast past 18-19 hours on burn/low carb days, although sometimes thats because I get all my calories in before my 8 hour period is over on lifting days

  5. Quote Originally Posted by FlawedGrunt View Post
    The way bloating comes off with this diet is nuts... On a thursday I was 204... after a weekend of drinking and eating like shxt I was 214 on monday... 72 hours later I was down to 202!

    So far though I would say this is a healthy cut/recomp strategy. Ive only lost 2 lbs a week on average but yet I feel like im leaning out considerably. I wish I would have taken pictures when I started LG because somedays I look in the mirror like "holy shxt!" and feel lean. I still have a good 2+ inches Id like to lose of my midsection because I carry fat horribly in my lower back

    The one thing I noticed with LG is not so much that I feel hungry or even limited so much as to what to eat... but that I almost want to eat healthier. Like my body is telling me I need to eat good stuff instead of craving all the crap... which might have to do with not limiting carbs as much as I have in the past... after about 2 weeks of limiting carbs my body goes nuts for sweets and I gain everything back.

    I also have found it easy to extend my fast past 18-19 hours on burn/low carb days, although sometimes thats because I get all my calories in before my 8 hour period is over on lifting days
    Yah I think we just get a much better appreciation for our food after fasting, everything just tastes better, seems more satisfying and you can almost feel nutrients entering you system as you eat. I believe it to be a very anabolic environment we are setting up with the fasting. Best of both worlds beyond a shadow of a doubt. In my log I posted some pics where I lost only 4 lbs and am about 5-7% body fat lower since I have been on it. As a matter of fact here they are....

    and After....
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Yah I think we just get a much better appreciation for our food after fasting, everything just tastes better, seems more satisfying and you can almost feel nutrients entering you system as you eat. I believe it to be a very anabolic environment we are setting up with the fasting. Best of both worlds beyond a shadow of a doubt. In my log I posted some pics where I lost only 4 lbs and am about 5-7% body fat lower since I have been on it. As a matter of fact here they are....

    and After....
    Awesome results DW!!!! REPS I remember your before pic from the NTBM transformation contest.

    LOL on the spray tan tho
    :blindfold:

  7. Quote Originally Posted by monstermash View Post
    Awesome results DW!!!! REPS I remember your before pic from the NTBM transformation contest.

    LOL on the spray tan tho
    The tan was the best part of the pics I would look much better in the after with that kind of tan and less water...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  8. Damn WEAVER! Lookin great!

  9. Quote Originally Posted by FlawedGrunt View Post
    Damn WEAVER! Lookin great!
    Thanks, I start my prep on Sunday 12 weeks of cutting ... well I'm already cut so with say ripping then shredding and finally slicing and dicing... going to take lean gains as far as I can.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  10. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    The tan was the best part of the pics I would look much better in the after with that kind of tan and less water...
    Definitely wold look better with the tan but even without it, you're transformation is obvious. Once again, great job man!
    :blindfold:

  11. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    The tan was the best part of the pics I would look much better in the after with that kind of tan and less water...
    No doubt! Its impressive when you can look better pale in a picture compared to when you were tan since tanning adds so much definition

  12. TurningGreen - Honestly caloric intake is very personal. I have a slower or more efficient metabolism, so I can do more with less. I gain easily and I don't use any formula to figure out what I expend throughout the day. I know for me bw x 13-14 is my maintenance number. So now I am 205 2665-2870 is my maintenance range. Then do the -20 / +20 you get 2132 -2296 on a burn day, and 3198-3444 for the build day. Honestly, I would more than likely start to gain some body mass mass at the bw x 14 level, that would probably be more of a lean bulk for me.

    Now if you really expend 1300 cals a day and are counting that then you should be higher than me because I don't, but maybe only 500 cals more on a build day and leave the cals lower on the burn day to just keep burning fat with your activity level. Your muscle will not go anywhere even if you only got in 300-500 cals that day. I know you said you gain fat easily, so if you think your metabolism is similar to mine then try your body weight x 14 since you seem to have more activity going on in your typical day.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  13. Quote Originally Posted by FlawedGrunt View Post
    No doubt! Its impressive when you can look better pale in a picture compared to when you were tan since tanning adds so much definition
    Not to mention drying out, I was holding some water in the after pics, just finished a 24 oz steak to boot... I will make a better effort to dry out with my progress pics..
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  14. No amount of pasty white skin can hide those abs Doug. Do you still have the Thiomucase if so you should do a practice run with it in a few weeks and see how much is tightens everything up. I am curious myself. I have been holding on to mine to use for a picture or contest.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  15. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    No amount of pasty white skin can hide those abs Doug. Do you still have the Thiomucase if so you should do a practice run with it in a few weeks and see how much is tightens everything up. I am curious myself. I have been holding on to mine to use for a picture or contest.
    Uhhh... More info on Thiomucase please???
    Dr. Albert Scott Representative for FINAFLEX
    www.finaflex.com
    Redefine Yourself..... REDEFINE EVERYTHING!

  16. Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    Uhhh... More info on Thiomucase please???
    Thiomucase
    ACTIVE SUBSTANCE: Thiomucase
    DESCRIPTION: Thiomucase Cream by**********is a mucopolysaccharidase obtained from ovine tissues mainly used to facilitate the diffusion of local anaesthetics and in the treatment of cellulitis. A patient with an anaphylaxis in relation to the intramuscular administration of Thiomucase Cream by ********* is reported. It is a chemical that was originally used as a dispersing agent.
    Thiomucase Cream by Almirall Spain temporarily tightens your skin and may reduce the visible signs of aging by discarding water from the fat cells. Thiomucase Cream by ********* allows as much as 20% more water to be freed from the fat cell. Thiomucase Cream by ********** is a safe and effective product for treating and preventing cellulite. Its natural component, mucopolysaccharidase, acts directly upon orange peel skin - reducing it in depth, and facilitating both retained water and fat release and drainage. This improves hydration of the skin and offers a firm and silky touch. On the other hand, and in parallel, the reducing effect of Thiomucase Cream by ********** helps to shape body contour - allowing the release of the fatty tissue located between the skin and muscles.
    :blindfold:

  17. Quote Originally Posted by monstermash View Post
    Thiomucase
    ACTIVE SUBSTANCE: Thiomucase
    DESCRIPTION: Thiomucase Cream by**********is a mucopolysaccharidase obtained from ovine tissues mainly used to facilitate the diffusion of local anaesthetics and in the treatment of cellulitis. A patient with an anaphylaxis in relation to the intramuscular administration of Thiomucase Cream by ********* is reported. It is a chemical that was originally used as a dispersing agent.
    Thiomucase Cream by Almirall Spain temporarily tightens your skin and may reduce the visible signs of aging by discarding water from the fat cells. Thiomucase Cream by ********* allows as much as 20% more water to be freed from the fat cell. Thiomucase Cream by ********** is a safe and effective product for treating and preventing cellulite. Its natural component, mucopolysaccharidase, acts directly upon orange peel skin - reducing it in depth, and facilitating both retained water and fat release and drainage. This improves hydration of the skin and offers a firm and silky touch. On the other hand, and in parallel, the reducing effect of Thiomucase Cream by ********** helps to shape body contour - allowing the release of the fatty tissue located between the skin and muscles.
    WoW... That sound AMAZING, I have to try that! Where can I get some and how much is it, how long does a bottle or tube last, etc? Thank you for the info.
    Dr. Albert Scott Representative for FINAFLEX
    www.finaflex.com
    Redefine Yourself..... REDEFINE EVERYTHING!

  18. Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    WoW... That sound AMAZING, I have to try that! Where can I get some and how much is it, how long does a bottle or tube last, etc? Thank you for the info.
    It does sound amazing, but it looks like a company write up so I have to wonder if there is anything that actually substantiates their claims.

    BTW, just a couple things I've personally noticed doing LG diet for a couple months now. I perform much better in the gym when I'm in a "fed" state as opposed to a fasted or semi-fasted (BCAA only) state. Also, I find it usually pretty easy to fast for the 16 hours but when I start the 8 hour anabolic window of food consumption...it's harder to make myself stop! I've taken to increasing fiber and greens to help with satiation without having to risk overeating.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions rep

  19. Yeah I think most people will train better in a fed state, if performance is the goal then your performance should be during the fed state more than likely. If just improving composition then I would give the nod to fasted training.

    Once you start eating big it is definitely very easy to over eat which is funny because the first time I started this i stopped after 3 days because it was just too much food. Then I read more, added more dense foods and was able to do it but extremely full to the point of discomfort almost. However 2 weeks in I was eating my cals no problem and even after that I had to start watching to make sure I didn't go over.

    As far as Thiomucase, when i read on it originally it was illegal for human use but can be picked up as a research chem. However now it is being sold in a mix with caffiene by NTBM at their site. Doug and I both got a sample of it with an order from them. Now the original research claimed exactly the same thing, and many professional body builders use it to tighten up their loose skinf from bulking huge then cutting down big time and it would be loose coming up on the contest.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  20. If it is pretty well priced, I would not mind giving it a go for say maybe the last week of my upcoming Hallow-Lean Prep!!!
    Dr. Albert Scott Representative for FINAFLEX
    www.finaflex.com
    Redefine Yourself..... REDEFINE EVERYTHING!

  21. Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    If it is pretty well priced, I would not mind giving it a go for say maybe the last week of my upcoming Hallow-Lean Prep!!!
    The one NTBM sells if 29.99 I think, plus you can use any of the NTBM reps coupon code for an additional 15% off.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  22. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    TurningGreen - Honestly caloric intake is very personal. I have a slower or more efficient metabolism, so I can do more with less. I gain easily and I don't use any formula to figure out what I expend throughout the day. I know for me bw x 13-14 is my maintenance number. So now I am 205 2665-2870 is my maintenance range. Then do the -20 / +20 you get 2132 -2296 on a burn day, and 3198-3444 for the build day. Honestly, I would more than likely start to gain some body mass mass at the bw x 14 level, that would probably be more of a lean bulk for me.

    Now if you really expend 1300 cals a day and are counting that then you should be higher than me because I don't, but maybe only 500 cals more on a build day and leave the cals lower on the burn day to just keep burning fat with your activity level. Your muscle will not go anywhere even if you only got in 300-500 cals that day. I know you said you gain fat easily, so if you think your metabolism is similar to mine then try your body weight x 14 since you seem to have more activity going on in your typical day.
    Going with the Body Weight x13 Its very close to my BMR and the cals are much more manageable. I could even imagine cramming down 4,000+ calories in 8 hrs.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443

  23. Quote Originally Posted by TurningGreen View Post
    Going with the Body Weight x13 Its very close to my BMR and the cals are much more manageable. I could even imagine cramming down 4,000+ calories in 8 hrs.
    I used the BWx13 to get my figure for maintenance and then used the +20/-20 from there. For me that is working to a T for recomp. Very simple and very effective
    Recoverbro Elite
    "This is what we've been working on"

  24. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Yeah I think most people will train better in a fed state, if performance is the goal then your performance should be during the fed state more than likely. If just improving composition then I would give the nod to fasted training.

    Once you start eating big it is definitely very easy to over eat which is funny because the first time I started this i stopped after 3 days because it was just too much food. Then I read more, added more dense foods and was able to do it but extremely full to the point of discomfort almost. However 2 weeks in I was eating my cals no problem and even after that I had to start watching to make sure I didn't go over.

    As far as Thiomucase, when i read on it originally it was illegal for human use but can be picked up as a research chem. However now it is being sold in a mix with caffiene by NTBM at their site. Doug and I both got a sample of it with an order from them. Now the original research claimed exactly the same thing, and many professional body builders use it to tighten up their loose skinf from bulking huge then cutting down big time and it would be loose coming up on the contest.
    I think you put it very accurately, well said. That seems to be my general feeling too. I think I will stay on the semi-fasted LG approach until after my contest prep is over when I'll transition to performance and gains but still continue LG but train "fed".

    I was the exact same way, when I first started LG, I couldn't eat much either but now I'm able to stuff down a ton. I've started incorporated alot more fibrous greens to keep me from blowing macros by cheating or snacking constantly.

    Interesting note on the thiomucase. I think I need to look into it more. Thanks for the info!
    Serious Nutrition Solutions rep

  25. Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    I used the BWx13 to get my figure for maintenance and then used the +20/-20 from there. For me that is working to a T for recomp. Very simple and very effective
    How are you handling meal frequency? I looked like this today.
    1200 break fast 20% total cal
    1545 pre workout bcaa
    1600 workout
    1800 meal 2 50%
    1930 meal 3 30%

    The time between meal 2 and 3 was very short and I felt like I was eating them back to back. Is this the proper way to utilize this protocol or is there a more sensible way.

    4wk Androhard/Androlean 4wkPCT log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443

  26. Quote Originally Posted by TurningGreen View Post
    How are you handling meal frequency? I looked like this today.
    1200 break fast 20% total cal
    1545 pre workout bcaa
    1600 workout
    1800 meal 2 50%
    1930 meal 3 30%

    The time between meal 2 and 3 was very short and I felt like I was eating them back to back. Is this the proper way to utilize this protocol or is there a more sensible way.

    4wk Androhard/Androlean 4wkPCT log
    Holy $hit that is a lot of calories!
    Dr. Albert Scott Representative for FINAFLEX
    www.finaflex.com
    Redefine Yourself..... REDEFINE EVERYTHING!

  27. Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    Holy $hit that is a lot of calories!
    Doc, those are the times I ate my meals. I got around 3400 total calories today. I'm just worried about meal timing. Yeah that would be a azz load of cals!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443

  28. Quote Originally Posted by TurningGreen View Post
    Doc, those are the times I ate my meals. I got around 3400 total calories today. I'm just worried about meal timing. Yeah that would be a azz load of cals!
    LoL... I see it now, OMG... can you say Duhhhhh!!! Hey if you can't laugh at yourself then you are taking Life way to serious! Thanx for the clarification, because I was like... No way he is trying to lean up with those numbers even if you are Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler on an entire chemistry set worth of Sauce! I just added it up and that would come up to a little over 8,000 calories!
    Dr. Albert Scott Representative for FINAFLEX
    www.finaflex.com
    Redefine Yourself..... REDEFINE EVERYTHING!

  29. Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    LoL... I see it now, OMG... can you say Duhhhhh!!! Hey if you can't laugh at yourself then you are taking Life way to serious! Thanx for the clarification, because I was like... No way he is trying to lean up with those numbers even if you are Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler on an entire chemistry set worth of Sauce! I just added it up and that would come up to a little over 8,000 calories!
    HA! Im pretty sure my stomach would explode If I tried cramming 8,000 calories down...I don't even want to think about it.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443

  30. Post from my log today

    "I am still trying to figure out my timing and macro-nutrient portioning, this is new to me so its going to take me a bit to get dialed in. My big observation and question is about meal timing. I break fast as 1200hr (20% total cals) then BCCAs at 1530 workout at 1600hrs, then meal 2 at 1745hrs (50% total cals) this is such a large meal and only leaves me about two hrs to get the last 30% of my calories in. Is it ok to eat those two last meals so close together (almost back to back)? Other than this I am enjoying the fasted feeling, it makes me feel light and I definitely seem more vascular throughout the day."

    4wk Androhard/Androlean 4wkPCT log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443
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