TEST RESULTS - DEAD LIBIDO for 7 years - SCREWED HORMONE RATIOS

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    TEST RESULTS - DEAD LIBIDO for 7 years - SCREWED HORMONE RATIOS


    Hi all, I am 23, lost my once raging libido when I was 16 after a 2-year period of high stress in my life(related to changing cities). Before that, I used to have an extremely high libido, now I am never horny at all. Docs have no clue.

    I also have dark rings under my eyes and trouble getting out of bed in the morning. Also puffy nipples(no lump as in gyno, they just appear to be filled with air). I do not take drugs, I don't go to the gym, I don't do TRT. My bodyfat is about 16%.

    I have DHEAS level of an 80 year old and my E2 is pretty elevated. My Progesterone is also high. For 1 week, I have been on .25 mg/day liquidex to reduce E2 and 50mg/day DHEA. So far haven´t noticed any changes in terms of libido or anything else. How long could it take to notice some changes?

    KSman, JanSz, you are very knowledgeable about adequate hormone levels and ratios. Please shed some light on me. What ratios or hormone levels do you think I need to recover my libido?

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Quest test results: (2/5/08)

    LH 5.3 mui/ml (1.2-8.6)
    FSH 4.3 mui/ml (1.3-19.3)
    Prolactin 10.3ng/ml (2.6-13.1) <-------HIGH
    Progesterone 1.3 ng/ml (0.1-0.8) <-----HIGH

    TT LC/MS/MS 605 ng/dl (250-1100)
    FT 1.74% (1.5-2.2)
    FT 105 pg/ml (35-155)
    E2 Ultasensitive LC/MS/MS 53 pg/ml (<=29) <----HIGH
    SHBG 27 nmol/l (7-49)

    ZRT 4x saliva cortisol + DHEAS: (1/28/08)

    DHEAS 3.9 ng/ml (8-25 for age 23) <------VERY LOW
    cortisol morning 3.8 (3.7-9.5) ng/ml <-------LOW
    cortisol noon 1.7 (1.2-3.0)
    cortisol evening 0.9 (0.6-1.9)
    cortisol night 0.6 (0.4-1.0)

    Other Tests:

    TSH 1.82 miu/l (0.3-3.0)
    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Thanks for your time guys, I really appreciate it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by proculo View Post
    Hi all, I am 23, lost my once raging libido when I was 16 after a 2-year period of high stress in my life(related to changing cities). Before that, I used to have an extremely high libido, now I am never horny at all. Docs have no clue.

    I also have dark rings under my eyes and trouble getting out of bed in the morning. Also puffy nipples(no lump as in gyno, they just appear to be filled with air). I do not take drugs, I don't go to the gym, I don't do TRT. My bodyfat is about 16%.

    I have DHEAS level of an 80 year old and my E2 is pretty elevated. My Progesterone is also high. For 1 week, I have been on .25 mg/day liquidex to reduce E2 and 50mg/day DHEA. So far haven´t noticed any changes in terms of libido or anything else. How long could it take to notice some changes?

    KSman, JanSz, you are very knowledgeable about adequate hormone levels and ratios. Please shed some light on me. What ratios or hormone levels do you think I need to recover my libido?

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Quest test results: (2/5/08)

    LH 5.3 mui/ml (1.2-8.6)
    FSH 4.3 mui/ml (1.3-19.3)
    Prolactin 10.3ng/ml (2.6-13.1) <-------HIGH
    Progesterone 1.3 ng/ml (0.1-0.8) <-----HIGH

    TT LC/MS/MS 605 ng/dl (250-1100)
    FT 1.74% (1.5-2.2)
    FT 105 pg/ml (35-155)
    E2 Ultasensitive LC/MS/MS 53 pg/ml (<=29) <----HIGH
    SHBG 27 nmol/l (7-49)

    ZRT 4x saliva cortisol + DHEAS: (1/28/08)

    DHEAS 3.9 ng/ml (8-25 for age 23) <------VERY LOW
    cortisol morning 3.8 (3.7-9.5) ng/ml <-------LOW
    cortisol noon 1.7 (1.2-3.0)
    cortisol evening 0.9 (0.6-1.9)
    cortisol night 0.6 (0.4-1.0)

    Other Tests:

    TSH 1.82 miu/l (0.3-3.0)
    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Thanks for your time guys, I really appreciate it.
    Stay on Liquidex 0.25cc/day EOD, every other day.
    Retest after 4 - 6 weeks.
    use these tests, to adjust dose:
    Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
    Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
    Estrogens, Fractionated, LC/MS/MS (36742X)

    --------------------
    Get complete thyroid panel.
    37 T3 Free
    38 T3 uptake
    39 T3,Total
    40 T4,Free
    41 T4,Total
    42 TSH
    43 Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)
    ---------------------
    Stay on 50mg DHEA/day
    ----------------------
    SHBG 27 nmol/l (7-49)
    use this:
    Super Miraforte With Max Strength Chrysin, 120 Caps
    Ultra Natural Prostate With 5-LoxinŽ And Standardized Lignans, 60 Softgels
    Make sure you get enough zinc, zinc tally, zinc supply, read this:
    TESTOSTERONE NATION
    When testing again use this tests:
    Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
    Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)

    -----------------------
    Consider this general tests:
    1 Chem panel
    2 liver panel
    3 kidney panel
    4 VAP TM Cholesterol Test (10270X)
    5 Comprehensive Metabolic Panel w/EGFR
    6 CBC w/ diff

    and

    28 C-Reactive Protein (CRP), Highly Sensitive, CSF - (17401X)
    29 Fibrinogen
    30 Hematocrit
    31 Hemoglobin A1C
    32 Homocysteine, cardio
    33 Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A)

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    i would say get thyroid tested too. I would say its adrenal.
    If its an adrenals problem, adding other drugs will only worsen the problem. Basically dont EVER start thyroid treatment before treating adrenals.

    You could start with a low dose of HC and see if there are any improvements. Ur morning cortisol lvl is totally trash.
    I hav high progesterone too, but no one has yet to figure out what that means. I say its another stress thing.

    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by ericren23 View Post
    i would say get thyroid tested too. I would say its adrenal.
    If its an adrenals problem, adding other drugs will only worsen the problem. Basically dont EVER start thyroid treatment before treating adrenals.

    You could start with a low dose of HC and see if there are any improvements. Ur morning cortisol lvl is totally trash.
    I hav high progesterone too, but no one has yet to figure out what that means. I say its another stress thing.
    I agree, my morning cortisol is very low, so HC sounds like a good option to give my adrenals a break.

    I will definitely take the complete thyroid panel listed by JanSz. The 3 endocrinologists that I saw told me my thyroid is fine, but after seeing 7 doctors(3 endos, 2 urologists, 1 psychologist and 1 psychiatrist) unable to help with my libido issue, without mentioning the $$$$ I´ve spent, I don´t trust local doctors anymore.

    Since my low libido might be an adrenal issue and I am very confused, I am wondering if it is worth flying to California to see Marianco.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Stay on Liquidex 0.25cc/day EOD, every other day.
    ---------------------
    Stay on 50mg DHEA/day
    ----------------------
    SHBG 27 nmol/l (7-49)
    use this:
    Super Miraforte With Max Strength Chrysin, 120 Caps
    Ultra Natural Prostate With 5-LoxinŽ And Standardized Lignans, 60 Softgels
    Make sure you get enough zinc, zinc tally, zinc supply, read this:
    TESTOSTERONE NATION
    Thanks for the detailed reply JanSz.

    I will try the Chrysin anyway, but do you think my SHBG is high? I thought SHBG was OK since my free androgen index [(TT/SHBG)*.035] = (605/27)*.035 = 0.78, doesn´t seem too bad.

    That´s a good read, I definitely want to get my Zinc levels in check. Is the ZInc tally test described in the link accurate? Now I am also scared of carrying my cell phone by my hips

    Also, in one of your posts I read that pregnenolone cream tripled your DHEAS levels, would you recommend this since my DHEAS is so low?

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    IMHO-

    The T levels look OK. The E2 could be the cause of the libido issues and once it is reduced, it will further increase T anyway.

    Are you overweight? What do you eat? Also have you had cholesterol tested?

    Mark

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    you might wanna try endotest or endotest pro

    i used it and got some good libido from it but didn't see it through long enough

    in endotets there is dim, which can lower e2
    i can confirm that i had more morning wood when using this
    might wanna start it back again myself

    also there is vitex in it, supposedly lowers prolactin

    and the tribulus has protodioscin which supposedly increases lh and dhea levels, not proven though

    another product which also has dhea in it might be worth looking into is anabolic matrix rx

    super miraforte is what a guy at another forum also used (google for "tian endotest", this guy had problems with libido as well, i believe he settled on dhea 100 mg daily, along with 2 super miraforte and perhaps endotest)

    Endotest - Bodybuilding.com Forums

    alongside you should use a blood vessel dilator to improve the chances of having a hard erection at the time your libido works up

    another interesting thread about shbg

    SHBG, Libido, and Insulin - Bodybuilding.com Forums

    the results from super miraforte and lj100

    Elevated blood sugar as a result of tribestan. - Bodybuilding.com Forums

    the entire succes story

    Do I need PCT with Unleashed? - Bodybuilding.com Forums

    My Testosterone is 140 - Bodybuilding.com Forums

    im not claiming this is the best ****, but im trying to help
    still not there yet myself

    good luck

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    Question to JANSZ:

    If I use something as lj100 or avena sativa and I do get morning wood the next day, by the action of increasing free testosterone?

    Does that mean estrogen E2 has also lowered?

    Is this a synergistic effect, either lower E2 means always higher free T? And the other way around?

    Thx!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cumkwakka View Post
    Question to JANSZ:

    If I use something as lj100 or avena sativa and I do get morning wood the next day, by the action of increasing free testosterone?

    Does that mean estrogen E2 has also lowered?

    Is this a synergistic effect, either lower E2 means always higher free T? And the other way around?

    Thx!
    My guess is that wood have stronger relation to correct E2 level.

    There are people with low T's maintaining erections.

    For that reason I make sure to do this E2 test:

    Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)

    Estradiol, Free (Males (Adult): < or = 0.45 pg/mL )
    Estradiol (Males (Adult): < or = 29 pg/mL)

    Quest Diagnostics: Test Menu
    -----------------------------------

    I think that for general health reasons good T levels are important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    My guess is that wood have stronger relation to correct E2 level.

    There are people with low T's maintaining erections.

    For that reason I make sure to do this E2 test:

    Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)

    Estradiol, Free (Males (Adult): < or = 0.45 pg/mL )
    Estradiol (Males (Adult): < or = 29 pg/mL)

    Quest Diagnostics: Test Menu
    -----------------------------------

    I think that for general health reasons good T levels are important.
    Not being of medical mind may I ask what E2 test? I want to get one myself and unfortunately I have to babysit my Endo so can you please tell me what is this? Since why E2? What is the difference between that and say E1 and E3 etc if they exist?

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    You have adrenal fatigue, its VERY bad, obviously by looking at your labs THIS is you main problem, and this is whats causing your high Estrogen. Low cortisol causes high estrogen, and i went through the exact same thing as you, and when i got on 30mg of Cortef to treat adrenals, my Estradiol dropped. Then when i got on the Zinc and Iodine i was deficient in, my Estradiol dropped further into a near perfect range. Your DHEA is very low along with your monring Cortisol levels, and this is the best way to judge the severity of your adrenal fatigue, usually when DHEA-S and monring Cortisol is very low, this means pretty bad adrenals. To be honest your adrenal labs look VERY similar to mine, and my adrenals were trashed, and if you dont treat this you will reach adrenal failure sooner or later.



    Get off the Arimidex, this is not how to treat this problem you are doing yourself more harm than good. I did this exact same thing before i was educated in the subject and it doesnt work.



    Get on 30-32.5mg of Cortef, dose it like this.


    8am - 10mg (first thing when you wake up), 12pm - 10mg, 4pm - 5mg, 8pm - 2.5mg, 12am - 5mg (bedtime).


    I would stay on this for at least 6 months, and graph your temperatures per this info below to see if your temps are stable, and to also see if your temps are high enough, if not, you need to adress your thyroid after your adrenals are supported. This worked for me, and is working for me great. Also, get a good B-Complex, Vitamin C, 1/2 teaspoon of sea salt in the monring and evening, and mabye an adaptogenic herb like Ashwagandha, which is NOT a stimulant. AVOID any stimulants like the plague, they beat up your adrenals, also, try to eat organic whole foods, and low sugar diet, even fruit.

    Temperature Patterns of low adrenal and thyroid function



    I would NOT take DHEA right now as it will lower Cortisol levels further.


    Test for Ferritin you could be low like i was, and this can cause problems, also test for minerals, specifically zinc, iodine, magnesium, chromiun, maganese,ect.


    As for thyroid, you need to test Free T3, Free 4, Reverse T3, Thyroid Anti-bodies. Usually when people go through the stage of burning out their adrenals, T4 converts to Reverse T3 more than it does Free T3, and this blocks your T3 from working properly. Also, low Cortisol causes your own thyroid hormones to not be able to enter the cells, so untill you've been on Cortef for atleast 3 months, your blood thyroid levels wont be accurate most likely because low Cortisol will cause your thyroid hormones to build up in your blood as they cant enter the cells.



    Hope this helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shyguava View Post
    Not being of medical mind may I ask what E2 test? I want to get one myself and unfortunately I have to babysit my Endo so can you please tell me what is this? Since why E2? What is the difference between that and say E1 and E3 etc if they exist?
    Look at my post #44
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-...oodtest-2.html

    recently tetosterone and estrodial got lot of attention.
    There is a zillion of different tests for them and confussion is everywhere, including doctors.

    And the descriptions of those tests are real similar, so as to confuse even more.

    thise two are the two must have tests:

    Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)

    http://cas2.questdiagnostics.com/scr...&tmradio=title
    ---------
    Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)

    http://cas2.questdiagnostics.com/scr...&tmradio=title

    ---------------------

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    Quote Originally Posted by shyguava View Post
    Not being of medical mind may I ask what E2 test? I want to get one myself and unfortunately I have to babysit my Endo so can you please tell me what is this? Since why E2? What is the difference between that and say E1 and E3 etc if they exist?
    Look at my post #44
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-...oodtest-2.html

    This is a list of tests that I do once a year or 1 1/2 years.


    recently tetosterone and estrodial got lot of attention.
    There is a zillion of different tests for them and confussion is everywhere, including 90% doctors.

    And the descriptions of those tests are real similar, so as to confuse even more.

    thise two are the two must have tests:

    Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)

    Quest Diagnostics: Test Menu
    ---------
    Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)

    Quest Diagnostics: Test Menu

    ---------------------

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    My estrogen levels are offscale -high-due to nebido injections.
    I also take 600 mg of phosphytidylserine to reduce cortisol .From whats been said about low cort and high e , im wondering if i should stop taking the PS , although i suspect the result may in part be due to the high level of test.

    Any thoughts please

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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    My estrogen levels are offscale -high-due to nebido injections.
    I also take 600 mg of phosphytidylserine to reduce cortisol .From whats been said about low cort and high e , im wondering if i should stop taking the PS , although i suspect the result may in part be due to the high level of test.

    Any thoughts please
    600 is too much
    200-300 mgs would help to resensitize hormone receptors not to shut down cortisol ..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

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    Hey Matrix - are you saying that the rec'd daily dose in EndoAmp is too high?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottyc33 View Post
    Hey Matrix - are you saying that the rec'd daily dose in EndoAmp is too high?
    Given the general popualtion believing most people are excessive of cortisol. You have no idea how many people I have run into taking these cortisol blockers making them feel worse then they are. With out knowing the actually levels, one could thinking they are high when really they are low. Its not smart to assume anything !! I spend months undueing people mistakes because "they read it on some board". Vast majority do more self harm then helping selves. Why its smart to be under a knowledgeable practioner.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

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