Is there anything that boosts the hypothalmus and pituitary parts of the HPTA? (m) - AnabolicMinds.com

Is there anything that boosts the hypothalmus and pituitary parts of the HPTA? (m)

  1. New Member
    anyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    399
    Rep Power
    290

    Reputation

    Is there anything that boosts the hypothalmus and pituitary parts of the HPTA? (m)


    We have hcg to replace LH and hmg(?) to replace FSH, both of which stimulate the testes. We also have Testosterone, of course.

    What I don't see is something to help the situation even further back in the system. Is there a way to boost/restart the hypothalmus and/or pituitary? I keep hoping, although likely in vain, that there may be some way to restart the body's natural systems and eventually be weaned off off external meds.

  2. New Member
    MarkLA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    209
    Rep Power
    191

    Reputation

    I think that would be Clomid, right? AFAIK, Clomid blocks the receptors in the hypothalmus that detect how much T and E are in the body.
  3. New Member
    anyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    399
    Rep Power
    290

    Reputation

    Thanks, Mark, but I was looking for something that doesn't merely block E (m)


    Quote Originally Posted by MarkLA View Post
    I think that would be Clomid, right? AFAIK, Clomid blocks the receptors in the hypothalmus that detect how much T and E are in the body.
    AFAIK, clomid blocks receptors. However, is there a substance that works more directly rather then merely block via indirect means? In other words, is it possible to restart not just the testes, but the hypothalmus and pituitary directly?
    •   
       

  4. New Member
    seth64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4
    Rep Power
    86

    Reputation

    GnRH?

    This is the hormone that tells Pituitary to produce LH, FSH.


    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    AFAIK, clomid blocks receptors. However, is there a substance that works more directly rather then merely block via indirect means? In other words, is it possible to restart not just the testes, but the hypothalmus and pituitary directly?
  5. New Member
    anyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    399
    Rep Power
    290

    Reputation

    Yes, this sounds familiar. Why don't we use a synthetic GnRH or something similar?


    Quote Originally Posted by seth64 View Post
    GnRH?

    This is the hormone that tells Pituitary to produce LH, FSH.
    Am I missing something? Why don't we try to restart the HPTA via s GnRH substitute or, perhaps, go even further back to restart things earlier on. Why do we focus largely on the testes, when the problem might be much further up the line?
  6. New Member
    seth64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4
    Rep Power
    86

    Reputation

    I am Low on T, But I am going to address Adrenal, Thyroid, HPTA issues before starting TRT. I am willing to wait for another 6 month to a year. I always wondered why there are no tests for GnRH. I read that Nolvadex could help LH and FSH. Are there any success stories here using Nolvadex to increase T?
    I think one member in meso forum had reported that he got his T up to a significant level just by using Nolvadex.

    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    Am I missing something? Why don't we try to restart the HPTA via s GnRH substitute or, perhaps, go even further back to restart things earlier on. Why do we focus largely on the testes, when the problem might be much further up the line?
  7. Advanced Member
    Movin_weight's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    802
    Rep Power
    1887

    Reputation

    i'v never heard of anyone using synthetic GnRH, but even if someone did use it i don't see the benefit... When stimulating test you wan't to focus on LH not FSH... FSH stimulates sperm production, while LH is far more important with test stimulation

    With something like GnRH you wouldn't have control over whether the pituitary increased LH secretion or FSH secretion...
  8. New Member
    anyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    399
    Rep Power
    290

    Reputation

    True, but my goal is to restore underlying function, not just mask the symptoms.


    Quote Originally Posted by Movin_weight View Post
    i'v never heard of anyone using synthetic GnRH, but even if someone did use it i don't see the benefit... When stimulating test you wan't to focus on LH not FSH... FSH stimulates sperm production, while LH is far more important with test stimulation

    With something like GnRH you wouldn't have control over whether the pituitary increased LH secretion or FSH secretion...
    I am no Dr and not well versed in the underlying medicine. But, my goal remains the same: Find and fix the underlying deficits. TRT merely replaces the end result of the problem. By analogy, if your car kept losing oil would you just keep adding quarts as needed or would you find the leak and fix it?
  9. New Member
    BigAk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    291
    Rep Power
    244

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    I am no Dr and not well versed in the underlying medicine. But, my goal remains the same: Find and fix the underlying deficits. TRT merely replaces the end result of the problem. By analogy, if your car kept losing oil would you just keep adding quarts as needed or would you find the leak and fix it?
    Excellent analogy of the oil leak anyman.. I'm gonna start using it with your permission.

    That said, I think there is merit in an intermittant restart breaks while on TRT... Just so that the body can have a chance to work independently again on its own. This will serve well for your all parts of the HPTA.. from the H to the A... and beyond.
  10. New Member
    anyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    399
    Rep Power
    290

    Reputation

    No problem, BigAk. I just wish more would ficus on a cure.


    Quote Originally Posted by BigAk View Post
    Excellent analogy of the oil leak anyman.. I'm gonna start using it with your permission.

    That said, I think there is merit in an intermittant restart breaks while on TRT... Just so that the body can have a chance to work independently again on its own. This will serve well for your all parts of the HPTA.. from the H to the A... and beyond.
    Never thought the band aid approach made much sense. Rather than just slap a band aid on a cut, isn't better to find out why you got hurt and stop the bleeding first?

    I don't understand why more both here and in the medical community don't attempt to look deeper into the problem. Even leaders like Dr J and Dr S don't seem to pay as much attention to the underlying physiology as I'd like to see.

    I suspect we only understand a small portion of how the body works, making it important to preserve as much natural function as we can. Palliative measures are often easier, but never quite fix the problem. Still, there is only so much we laymen can do. While I search for a cure, I also have to deal with the here and now, hence my decision to start TRT. The crippling fatigue and onset of previously unknown depression were and are compelling factors. I am disappointed in myself for being unable to fight harder, but my body's chemistry is what it is and no amount of mental effort was able to change it. Since I was never a depressed or always tired person I can take a step back and realize that body chemistry is at fault.
  11. New Member
    cpeil2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    414
    Rep Power
    302

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    I don't understand why more both here and in the medical community don't attempt to look deeper into the problem. Even leaders like Dr J and Dr S don't seem to pay as much attention to the underlying physiology as I'd like to see.
    They may recognize their limitations. For most of us who have secondary hypogonadism, the underlying disfunction is probably in the H and/or P of the HPTA, which remain at this point, black boxes. The kind of research that would unlock the answers is probably beyond what an individual practitioner can do.
  12. New Member
    BigAk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    291
    Rep Power
    244

    Reputation

    We feel exactly the same about this issue anyman... and we actually have the exact same thoughts... I am also very upset that my body was not able to get back to where I was.

    I agree... Doctors do not spend as much time in trying to figure out the causes. However, I have been pushing hard and working with Dr. J to see what we can figure out for my case... But, to be honest with you, I am not too hopeful.... We'll see... I may be following your tracks soon...
  13. Senior Member
    Scottyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,001
    Rep Power
    642

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    Never thought the band aid approach made much sense. Rather than just slap a band aid on a cut, isn't better to find out why you got hurt and stop the bleeding first?

    I don't understand why more both here and in the medical community don't attempt to look deeper into the problem. Even leaders like Dr J and Dr S don't seem to pay as much attention to the underlying physiology as I'd like to see.

    I suspect we only understand a small portion of how the body works, making it important to preserve as much natural function as we can. Palliative measures are often easier, but never quite fix the problem. Still, there is only so much we laymen can do. While I search for a cure, I also have to deal with the here and now, hence my decision to start TRT. The crippling fatigue and onset of previously unknown depression were and are compelling factors. I am disappointed in myself for being unable to fight harder, but my body's chemistry is what it is and no amount of mental effort was able to change it. Since I was never a depressed or always tired person I can take a step back and realize that body chemistry is at fault.

    My question is why you think starting up TRT is an irreversable process? I am working with Dr. J. and the goal for my treatment is to use t-gel, HC, and thyroid as well as HCG in the hope that once we correct the real problems, we might start removing some of the meds.

    You see to rule this out a priori, which is foolish and just plain wrong. As others have noted to you in the past, there are many steroid users (those who use ridiculous amounts and thus at even worse odds of recovery/normalization) who then go on to do a 'post cycle treatment and then recover.

    I dont know why you think feeling like crap without TRT is any likelier to have you recover using just something like HCG than actually using something like t-gel and then, provided you've uncovered why the underlying problems caused low t, fixing these problems, and then trying to restart the HPTA.

    my 2 cents. get a doctor who knows what their doing and then just listen to them. I recommend Dr. John.
  14. New Member
    anyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    399
    Rep Power
    290

    Reputation

    Good points, Scottyo, Allow me to respond.


    Why do I think TRT isn't reversible? Easy. I am not aware of any non steroid users who have recovered enough to drop it. Not one. Maybe they are out there, but I haven't found them. Here are a few comments:

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottyo View Post
    My question is why you think starting up TRT is an irreversable process? I am working with Dr. J. and the goal for my treatment is to use t-gel, HC, and thyroid as well as HCG in the hope that once we correct the real problems, we might start removing some of the meds.

    Good luck on this- seriously. Haven't found one person able to do so. I recall reading old posts by Dr J that indicate idiopathic secondary hypogonadism is largely uncurable. I'd LOVE to be proven wrong. Most Drs can't even tell us why we are as we are, much less decipher the H and P "black boxes".

    You see to rule this out a priori, which is foolish and just plain wrong. As others have noted to you in the past, there are many steroid users (those who use ridiculous amounts and thus at even worse odds of recovery/normalization) who then go on to do a 'post cycle treatment and then recover.

    I am aware that some steroid users have come back, but am not aware of normal people who just shut down for unknown reasons coming back. Again, please prove me wrong.

    I dont know why you think feeling like crap without TRT is any likelier to have you recover using just something like HCG than actually using something like t-gel and then, provided you've uncovered why the underlying problems caused low t, fixing these problems, and then trying to restart the HPTA.

    This is exactly what I want to do, but have had no success. Even a brief period of 1500 units of hcg 3x/week under Dr Shippen's guidance ony got my to about 525 or so, while E shot to 75. Dr Shippen has told me that guys like me (40s) with low T not easily ascribable to something specific will likely be on TRT for life. In all my scans of this and similar boards I've yet to find one guy who was able to successfully fully restart his HPTA. This said, my goal is to get to a decent point and then see if I can be weaned off. "How" and "when" remain open questions.....

    my 2 cents. get a doctor who knows what their doing and then just listen to them. I recommend Dr. John.

    Perhaps I should consider seeing BOTH Dr J and Dr S. Might not be a bad idea.... I wonder if they would go for it. I'd like the diversity of opinions/thoughts, but am not sure that the Drs would go for it. Gotta give this some thought.
    Thanks for the comments and input. Your post is exactly why I started this thread- to see what there might be, what I might be missing and to stimulate discussion.
  15. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2415

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    Perhaps I should consider seeing BOTH Dr J and Dr S. Might not be a bad idea.... I wonder if they would go for it. I'd like the diversity of opinions/thoughts, but am not sure that the Drs would go for it. Gotta give this some thought.
    Do not overlook consultation with


    Patric Hanaway MD, Chief Medical Officer at Genova Diagnostics (fat chance)

    or

    Kathleen Thomsen MD (his co-researcher)

    This is my plan, but I do my best first.
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Patrick Hanaway
    63 Zillicoa St
    Asheville, NC 28801-1038
    (800) 522-4762
    -----------------------------

    Please help locating
    Kathleen Thomsen

    white pages did not worked for her
  16. New Member
    cpeil2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    414
    Rep Power
    302

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by anyman View Post
    Perhaps I should consider seeing BOTH Dr J and Dr S. Might not be a bad idea.... I wonder if they would go for it. I'd like the diversity of opinions/thoughts, but am not sure that the Drs would go for it. Gotta give this some thought.

    Each seems to have a lot of regard for the other, although each has his own approach. It coulld be productive.
  17. New Member
    anyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    399
    Rep Power
    290

    Reputation

    Perhaps these addresses will pan out, Jan:


    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Kathleen Thomsen MD (his co-researcher)

    This is my plan, but I do my best first.
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Patrick Hanaway
    63 Zillicoa St
    Asheville, NC 28801-1038
    (800) 522-4762
    -----------------------------

    Please help locating
    Kathleen Thomsen

    white pages did not worked for her
    Try these:

    Thomsen Kathleen MD
    69 Highway 516, Old Bridge, NJ 08857

    (732) 254-1515

    Thomsen Kathleen Md MPH
    252 Pennington Harbourto, Pennington, NJ 08534

    (609) 818-9700

    From her published appearances I noted a stated address of NJ. These 2 came up. Don't know if they are valid, but are worth trying.
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Is there anything like the old activate extreme?
    By chlorella in forum Supplements
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-19-2010, 11:41 AM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-30-2008, 01:12 PM
  3. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-22-2008, 07:44 PM
  4. Is there any merit in taking BCAA's only half of the week?
    By IvyLeaguePump in forum Supplements
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-15-2008, 05:58 PM
  5. Building up the lower inner "cleavage" part of the chest?
    By tommy36p in forum Exercise Science
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-12-2004, 02:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in