Is the standard LabCorp E2 test useful?

[peabody]

LabCorp's standard estradiol test (#004515) is available online through LEF. It's the test LEF also includes in the "Male" test panel.

But, it's not the "estradiol, sensitive" test (#140244) which appears to be preferred for men by Dr. John in "TRT: A Recipe for Success" on his AllThingsMale site. The sensitive test isn't readily available through online sites, at least at anything approaching a reasonable price.

Is the standard test accurate enough to be useable for testing men? Does anyone know the lower boundary of the test?

 

[plymouth city]

I know of people who use labcorp.

Most say the estradoil test is fine, that it adjusts accordingly to adex dosing, etc.

 

[JanSz]

LabCorp's standard estradiol test (#004515) is available online through LEF. It's the test LEF also includes in the "Male" test panel.

But, it's not the "estradiol, sensitive" test (#140244) which appears to be preferred for men by Dr. John in "TRT: A Recipe for Success" on his AllThingsMale site. The sensitive test isn't readily available through online sites, at least at anything approaching a reasonable price.

Is the standard test accurate enough to be useable for testing men? Does anyone know the lower boundary of the test?

If you really cannot go to Quest Diagnostics

This is the test you want from LabCorp:
LabCorp Directory of Services

Estradiol, Sensitive

Number
140244
CPT
82670
Synonyms
E2 ; Estradiol-17 Beta
Specimen
Serum


Age Male (pg/mL) Female (pg/mL)
0-6 0-15 0-15
7-10 0-15 0-70
11-12 0-40 10-300
13-15 0-45 10-300
>15 3-70 See below

 

[BigJimCalhoun]

I have heard from a very reliable source that the Lab-Corp assay for estradiol is really bad. My results were so inconsistent for all my tests that the relationships between T, Bio T, E2, SHBG etc did not match.

I needed to redo my tests with Rhein Consulting.

 

[JanSz]

I have heard from a very reliable source that the Lab-Corp assay for estradiol is really bad. My results were so inconsistent for all my tests that the relationships between T, Bio T, E2, SHBG etc did not match.

I needed to redo my tests with Rhein Consulting.

Does RheinLabs do these tests?
T, Bio T, E2, SHBG etc

 

[peabody]

JanSz:

I've looked at a number of sites that offer testing, and so far all use LabCorp. If anyone knows of an online service that uses Quest, that info would be very helpful.

The best price I've found on the LabCorp sensitive E2 test is $185. And that would all be out of my pocket. The Rhein panel is $225 I believe. In comparison, the member price at LEF for the regular LabCorp E2 test is $33. That's why I was hoping it would be valid enough.

 

[BigJimCalhoun]

Does RheinLabs do these tests?
T, Bio T, E2, SHBG etc

I am pretty sure all these are in the list. Once I get my results back I can post them

They do a whole lot for $225.

 

[JanSz]

JanSz:

I've looked at a number of sites that offer testing, and so far all use LabCorp. If anyone knows of an online service that uses Quest, that info would be very helpful.

The best price I've found on the LabCorp sensitive E2 test is $185. And that would all be out of my pocket. The Rhein panel is $225 I believe. In comparison, the member price at LEF for the regular LabCorp E2 test is $33. That's why I was hoping it would be valid enough.

LEF have a frequent sales on blood tests.
When on sale E2- $25

KSman have to pay out of pocket. He buys lot of tests and use them letter as needed.
Not sure if LEF description is narrow enough to actually get the
estradiol, sensitive
I am sure discussion with phlebotomist at LabCorp, right before the blood draw would help in getting the correct test, if she hesitates, talk to her supervisor or do not do test at that place. There is plenty of LabCorp places around.

KSman does all his testing using LEF.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66487-250-hcg-twice.html#post828242

Read posts #21 & 22

 

[peabody]

LEF have a frequent sales on blood tests.
When on sale E2- $25

KSman have to pay out of pocket. He buys lot of tests and use them letter as needed.
Not sure if LEF description is narrow enough to actually get the
estradiol, sensitive
I am sure discussion with phlebotomist at LabCorp, right before the blood draw would help in getting the correct test, if she hesitates, talk to her supervisor or do not do test at that place. There is plenty of LabCorp places around.

KSman does all his testing using LEF.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66487-250-hcg-twice.html#post828242

Read posts #21 & 22

The estradiol test offered by LEF is definitely NOT the sensitive test. It's LabCorp's test #004515, which is the standard test. The sensitive test is #140244, which is a lot more expensive. I don't think it is available through LEF, and I seriously doubt any LabCorp office would let you substitute at the same price.

 

[cpeil2]

I am pretty sure all these are in the list. Once I get my results back I can post them

They do a whole lot for $225.

They only test steroid hormones in the hormone assay that most people get. For additional fee, they do free T3 and free T4.

 

[KSman]

I still do not understand this problem with E2 tests. My past Labcorp pre-TRT results were consistent. TRT pushed my E2 to 37 and I felt like crap. My Doctor prescribed Arimidex at 1mg/wk. I felt way better and then testing showed E2=22. Doctor agreed to go after e2=17-20 with 1.22mg/wk and I can feel that change. I will do an E2 and CBC in July to see where that has me. What am I missing? I feel way better and at this point don't care about the ratios of other estrogens. That should be saved for those who do not response to a more conservative testing and treatment protocols. Many others have the same story using basic E2 tests, getting on AI and feeling a lot better. The way that they feel and the subsequent lab work both show that E2 levels are lower and that life is better.

 

[JanSz]

I still do not understand this problem with E2 tests. My past Labcorp pre-TRT results were consistent. TRT pushed my E2 to 37 and I felt like crap. My Doctor prescribed Arimidex at 1mg/wk. I felt way better and then testing showed E2=22. Doctor agreed to go after e2=17-20 with 1.22mg/wk and I can feel that change. I will do an E2 and CBC in July to see where that has me. What am I missing? I feel way better and at this point don't care about the ratios of other estrogens. That should be saved for those who do not response to a more conservative testing and treatment protocols. Many others have the same story using basic E2 tests, getting on AI and feeling a lot better. The way that they feel and the subsequent lab work both show that E2 levels are lower and that life is better.

What kind of E2 test are you getting done when you buy E2 test from LEF?
Please post desription and range from the report.
------------------------------
Other estrogens are impotrant also, specially the estrone.
Difference between having smaler or larger chance at cancer.

 

[plymouth city]

I still do not understand this problem with E2 tests. My past Labcorp pre-TRT results were consistent. TRT pushed my E2 to 37 and I felt like crap. My Doctor prescribed Arimidex at 1mg/wk. I felt way better and then testing showed E2=22. Doctor agreed to go after e2=17-20 with 1.22mg/wk and I can feel that change. I will do an E2 and CBC in July to see where that has me. What am I missing? I feel way better and at this point don't care about the ratios of other estrogens. That should be saved for those who do not response to a more conservative testing and treatment protocols. Many others have the same story using basic E2 tests, getting on AI and feeling a lot better. The way that they feel and the subsequent lab work both show that E2 levels are lower and that life is better.

Agreed. You and several other have had good experiences using labcorp threw LEF.

 

[KSman]

What kind of E2 test are you getting done when you buy E2 test from LEF?
Please post desription and range from the report.
------------------------------
Other estrogens are impotrant also, specially the estrone.
Difference between having smaler or larger chance at cancer.

It is the only E2 test that I see offered by LEF as part of "male panel" LC 322582 or single test Estradiol LC004515

From the LabCorp printout:
Estradiol 22 pg/ml 0-53
Bayer Centaur/ACS Methodology at KCMO LABCORP

 

[JanSz]

It is the only E2 test that I see offered by LEF as part of "male panel" LC 322582 or single test Estradiol LC004515

From the LabCorp printout:
Estradiol 22 pg/ml 0-53
Bayer Centaur/ACS Methodology at KCMO LABCORP

I wish Dr John talk to LEF and straighten them out.
Not only the E2 test that they are selling is wrong, the other panels that they are selling are really dated.
Even if LEF is stuck with LabCorp, Dr John could design better palnels for them. Best if LEF could use Quest.

In the mean time lets be happy that at least something is available, so people who could not get scripts otherwise have at least some choice.

 

[cpeil2]

Best if LEF could use Quest.

I wouldn't look for that to happen. It seems like Quest is opting out of the trend to self-ordered labs. While labcorp participates in several programs such as LEF's, Quest has pulled out of the direct access programs that they were involved in.

 

[KSman]

I wish Dr John talk to LEF and straighten them out.
Not only the E2 test that they are selling is wrong, the other panels that they are selling are really dated.
Even if LEF is stuck with LabCorp, Dr John could design better palnels for them. Best if LEF could use Quest.

In the mean time lets be happy that at least something is available, so people who could not get scripts otherwise have at least some choice.

So what is the problem? Symptoms suggest E problems, tests confirm, AI is scripted, E goes down, guy feels better, test confirms reduction of E and supports staying at dose or changing dose.

Lab results are only a tool.

 

[pmgamer18]

Does Quest still do Bio T my last test they did not do it gave me this "Testosterone Free and Weakly Bound".

 

[JanSz]

The hormone assays on urines are true "free" levels.

Rhien provides 7 estrogen assays, plus T, DHT, and the metabolites.

You cannot find SHBG in the urine--unless your kidneys are shot.

In this post
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/525481-post3.html
Dr Marianco is touching on urine tests.

Time permitting, please add a little of your own so we can get smarter.

 

[JanSz]

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmgamer18
Does Quest still do Bio T my last test they did not do it gave me this "Testosterone Free and Weakly Bound".

That is aka Bioavailable Testosterone.

On my test in April 07 they called it:

Bioavailable Testosterone (110.0-575.0)ng/dL

when was your test done, Phil?
what is the range?
what was the name that they used previously?

Quest must be tinkering with it.

There is a 2007 research stating that:
Quote:
In men, there is an age-associated discrepancy between calculated and measured BT concentrations.

Age-Associated Discrepancy between Measured and Calculated Bioavailable Testosterone in Men -- Déchaud et al. 53 (4): 723 -- Clinical Chemistry

So there is at least two reasons for discrepancies:
1. age
2. duality of SHBG

=============================================
I was trying to get some discussion on it here:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/69037-age-associated-bio.html#post867990

 

[pmgamer18]

Thanks Dr. John I was not sure what it was you would think they would say something on the results.
JanSz
My Testosterone Free and Weakly Bound was high 405 range 84 to 402 ng/dl.
Labs were done 06-01-07
My TT was 671 range 241-827 ng/dl
FT was 226 range 34 to 194 pg/ml
SHBG is 21 range 23 to 38 nmol/l
Albumin 3.9 range 3.6 to 5.1 g/dl
The above is doing 200mgs./ml of Depo T shooting every 3 days 70mgs into my thigh using a 27g 1ml x 1/2" lg needle. And doing 350 IU's of HCG the 2 days each in between the T shots using same size needle into my thigh.

My last test my levels were to low doing 50 mgs of T every 3 days and 250 IU's of HCG the 2 days each in between my T shots labs were as follows.
Bio T 199.2 range 110 to 575 ng/dl
TT was 530 range 250 to 1100 ng/dl
FT was 108.3 range 46 to 224 pg/ml
SHBG 21 range 23 to 38 nmol/l
Albumin 4 range 3.6 to 5.1 g/dl
I was on Florinef .1mgs for 3 weeks when this lab was done my E2 fell big time to <7 range 13 to 54 pg/ml at the time I was doing 1mg of Arimidex everyday. Before the Florinef my E2 was about 15 to 20.

So we cut my Dose of Arimidex down to .5 mgs everyday and my last test the one above my E2 come back still to dam low at 9.

My DHEA was always low and I take 25 mgs 2 x's a day to keep it mid range now I am over the top of the range DHEA-S come in at 358 range 25 to 95 mcg/dl. So adding Florinef changed this also.

I am now only doing .5 mgs every 3 days to keep my E2 in check at least I feel it's in check got morning wood back.

Quest did change there labs and ranges.

I feel dam good where I am and don't plain on changing anything this is the best I ever felt and it was adding the Florinef that did it. Being Hypopituitary and finding my Aldosterone and Renin levels were to low was doing me in.

 

[JanSz]

Thanks Dr. John I was not sure what it was you would think they would say something on the results.
JanSz
My Testosterone Free and Weakly Bound was high 405 range 84 to 402 ng/dl.
Labs were done 06-01-07
My TT was 671 range 241-827 ng/dl
FT was 226 range 34 to 194 pg/ml
SHBG is 21 range 23 to 38 nmol/l
Albumin 3.9 range 3.6 to 5.1 g/dl
The above is doing 200mgs./ml of Depo T shooting every 3 days 70mgs into my thigh using a 27g 1ml x 1/2" lg needle. And doing 350 IU's of HCG the 2 days each in between the T shots using same size needle into my thigh.

My last test my levels were to low doing 50 mgs of T every 3 days and 250 IU's of HCG the 2 days each in between my T shots labs were as follows.
Bio T 199.2 range 110 to 575 ng/dl
TT was 530 range 250 to 1100 ng/dl
FT was 108.3 range 46 to 224 pg/ml
SHBG 21 range 23 to 38 nmol/l
Albumin 4 range 3.6 to 5.1 g/dl
I was on Florinef .1mgs for 3 weeks when this lab was done my E2 fell big time to <7 range 13 to 54 pg/ml at the time I was doing 1mg of Arimidex everyday. Before the Florinef my E2 was about 15 to 20.

So we cut my Dose of Arimidex down to .5 mgs everyday and my last test the one above my E2 come back still to dam low at 9.

My DHEA was always low and I take 25 mgs 2 x's a day to keep it mid range now I am over the top of the range DHEA-S come in at 358 range 25 to 95 mcg/dl. So adding Florinef changed this also.

I am now only doing .5 mgs every 3 days to keep my E2 in check at least I feel it's in check got morning wood back.

Quest did change there labs and ranges.

I feel dam good where I am and don't plain on changing anything this is the best I ever felt and it was adding the Florinef that did it. Being Hypopituitary and finding my Aldosterone and Renin levels were to low was doing me in.

#1 do not argue with success, you feel good and that is what is most important.
---------------------------------------
What I do not understad is this
on E3D-(70mg+350Iu hcg)
you have got perfect T results, well very close to perfect.
You could have just add Florinef and be done with.
Why have you drop so much your testosterone dose?

 

[KSman]

So we cut my Dose of Arimidex down to .5 mgs everyday and my last test the one above my E2 come back still to dam low at 9.

Most do well with 1mg/week of arimidex. Why are you taking so much? I just increased from 1.0 to 1.22mg/week.

 

[pmgamer18]

JanSz I don't know why my levels 3 months ago went up so high that my Dr. lowered my dose to 50 mgs every 3 days of T and 250 IU's of HCG the 2 days each in between. I felt fine and am thinking it was adding Cortef 5 mgs 4 x's a day for my low cortisol levels I am Hypopituitary. But after switching to Quest he put my dose back up and when I added the Florinef I am now done with it. This is the best ever that I have felt.

kSman I have been on TRT for over 23 yrs. and before reading Dr. Johns site TRT: A Recipe for Success I was on gels and my T levels were mid range. I was house bound and in a lot of pain so bad it was hard to walk. When I stopped th gels and went on shots my pain started going away to the point I was out walking and going to the gym. We then added HCG and my levels doubled my TT it went from 600 to 1200 but the lab we were using at the time had a range of 262 to 1595. Man I felt dam good and this is how we found out I am not primary but secondary. When I was on the gels I did .25 mgs of Arimidex every 5 days to keep my E2 down. Getting my levels higher and feeling much better my E2 when very high so we were doing 1mg. a day of Arimidex. Still it's is a small price to pay to feel this good and to be able to work out side and go to the gym. I am 63 and have morning wood every morning my libido is very high now and I could have sex everyday if my wife was up to it. Adding Florinef did something to my Estradiol it went way down. I have been talking to others that have low Aldosterone levels some women and they said the same thing happened to them when they started on Florinef they Estrogens levels changed.

Here is a link that I found that talks about low Aldosterone it is near the bottom of the page. So now I don't use a lot of Arimidex to keep my E2 down.
http://www.tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html