Plymouth City's Log

[plymouth city]

Well a few others have their own I want one as well, LOL.

I'll try and sum it up as best I can - Now 27 years old, starting having all around health issues about 3 years ago. My general all around lifestyle which included to much drinking, smoking(everything) and eating bad food did me in.

I stumbled upon t-nation 3 years ago and everything started to change from there. Slowly lost weight and BF - Right now at 145 and 7 %BF, from 185 at over 20 %.

As I lost weight and ate better, started feeling better as well. Starting reading about endocrinology and got hooked from there. Im now an active member at alot of the boards.

First started supplementing with ZMA, and noticed right away it worked. Energy was up and I started sleeping better. I quit drinking and smoking. Then Fish Oil as well. Skin improved drastically and overall mood/memory concentration. Still, I knew somethings were off. Morning wood is non existent, libido improving but still a little down and my concentration/memory wasn't there. Got bloodwork in 11/06.

IGF-1 130 (126 - 382ng)

DHEA 520 (110 - 500)

T-4 FREE 1.5 (.8 - 1.8)

TSH 1.21 (.4 - 5.5)

ESTRADOIL...43 (10 - 50)

PSA .3

T3 FREE 321 (230 - 420)

TEST, TOTAL 490 (245 - 1836)

TEST FREE 18.9 (12 - 40)

As you can see, Free and TT weren't exactly were I wanted them, GH is way low and Estradoil is elevated.

I continued threw researching for hours upon hours, ever day 7 days a week. I was learning how diet and sleep patterns can affect T levels. I started implementing a very prehistoric type diet - Eating lots of vegetables/fruit and meats/nuts/oils. I was going threw bags of frozen veggies, eating lots of whey protein frozen fruit smoothies, and eating tons of eggs and red meat.

I also changed my sleep patterns, going to bed earlier and rising earlier. I started hearing about a couple compounds, one being resveratrol and another being natural, non synethetic Vitamin E from carlsons. Added those in the mix. Felt even better. Cardiovascular shape continued to increase, dramatically. I got into even better shape, diet was rolling along very nicely and energy has been way up all winter.

Retested in 4/07

TT - 731 (241 - 827)

FT - 23.9 (9.3 - 26.5)

Prolactin - 5.6 (2.1 - 17.1)

FSH - 3.6 (1.4 - 18.1)

LH - 3.8 (1.5 - 9.3)

As you can see, TT and Free T are way up. I didn't get E2 checked because I started heavily getting into estrogen metabolism, and the benefits of natural, plant based compounds that deal with excess estrogen. I became very intrigued on how these compounds are also very powerfull cancer fighting compounds as well. I also have been curious about other vitamins/compounds, in particular GLA, A, C, and selenium, as well as dermacrine.

I recently picked up DIM, TMG and Calcium D Glucarate. I start them on 5/7/07. I will be keeping a log here on effectiveness. I plan on getting new BW in August. I am hoping they get the job done.

I also plan on doing something about my horrendous GH levels as well. I am lucky enough to live close to Dr John. I plan on seeing him once I get estradoil in check.

Right now I take

PM
FLAMEOUT - 2 CAPS ED - t-nation.com
ZMA - 3 caps ED - t-nation.com
Carlsons Salmon Oil/GLA - 1 cap ED - carlsonlabs.com
Carlsons Salmon Oil - 1 cap ED - carlsonslabs.com

AM
Calcium D Glucarate - 1 cap ED - lef.com
DIM - 1 cap EOD - ultimatemedresearch.com
TMG - 1 cap EOD - lef.com
Carlsons ACES - 1 cap EOD - carlsonlabs.com
Resveratrol(REZV) 1 cap EOD - t-nation.com

 

[JanSz]

Well a few others have their own I want one as well, LOL.

I'll try and sum it up as best I can - Now 27 years old, starting having all around health issues about 3 years ago. My general all around lifestyle which included to much drinking, smoking(everything) and eating bad food did me in.

I stumbled upon t-nation 3 years ago and everything started to change from there. Slowly lost weight and BF - Right now at 145 and 7 %BF, from 185 at over 20 %.

As I lost weight and ate better, started feeling better as well. Starting reading about endocrinology and got hooked from there. Im now an active member at alot of the boards.

First started supplementing with ZMA, and noticed right away it worked. Energy was up and I started sleeping better. I quit drinking and smoking. Then Fish Oil as well. Skin improved drastically and overall mood/memory concentration. Still, I knew somethings were off. Morning wood is non existent, libido improving but still a little down and my concentration/memory wasn't there. Got bloodwork in 11/06.

IGF-1 130 (126 - 382ng) my changes Dual-Action, pregnenolone cream increased my IGF-1 from 100 in oct06 to 153now

DHEA 520 (110 - 500)

T-4 FREE 1.5 (.8 - 1.8)

TSH 1.21 (.4 - 5.5)

ESTRADOIL...43 (10 - 50) use LiquiDex, DIM have no effect on E2

PSA .3

T3 FREE 317 (230 - 420)

TEST, TOTAL 490 (245 - 1836)get Free, BioAvailable and Total Testosterone

TEST FREE 18.9 (12 - 40)

As you can see, Free and TT weren't exactly were I wanted them, GH is way low and Estradoil is elevated.

I continued threw researching for hours upon hours, ever day 7 days a week. I was learning how diet and sleep patterns can affect T levels. I started implementing a very prehistoric type diet - Eating lots of vegetables/fruit and meats/nuts/oils. I was going threw bags of frozen veggies, eating lots of whey protein frozen fruit smoothies, and eating tons of eggs and red meat---(raw is good) ?.

I also changed my sleep patterns, going to bed earlier and rising earlier. I started hearing about a couple compounds, one being resveratrol and another being natural, non synethetic Vitamin E from carlsons. Added those in the mix. Felt even better. Cardiovascular shape continued to increase, dramatically. I got into even better shape, diet was rolling along very nicely and energy has been way up all winter.

Retested in 4/07

TT - 731 (241 - 827)

FT - 23.9 (9.3 - 26.5)

Prolactin - 5.6 (2.1 - 17.1) I got today Vitex (amazon.com) to fight my prolactin, Shippen likes it at 3.0

FSH - 3.6 (1.4 - 18.1)

LH - 3.8 (1.5 - 9.3)

As you can see, TT and Free T are way up. I didn't get E2 checked because I started heavily getting into estrogen metabolism, and the benefits of natural, plant based compounds that deal with excess estrogen. I became very intrigued on how these compounds are also very powerfull cancer fighting compounds as well. I also have been curious about other vitamins/compounds, in particular GLA, A, C, and selenium, as well as dermacrine.

I recently picked up DIM, TMG and Calcium D Glucarate. I start them on 5/7/07. I will be keeping a log here on effectiveness. I plan on getting new BW in August. I am hoping they get the job done.

I also plan on doing something about my horrendous GH levels as well. I am lucky enough to live close to Dr John. I plan on seeing him once I get estradoil in check.

Right now I take

PM
FLAMEOUT - 2 CAPS ED - t-nation.com
ZMA - 3 caps ED - t-nation.com
Carlsons Salmon Oil/GLA - 1 cap ED - carlsonlabs.com
Carlsons Salmon Oil - 1 cap ED - carlsonslabs.com

AM
Calcium D Glucarate - 1 cap ED - lef.com
DIM - 1 cap EOD - ultimatemedresearch.com
TMG - 1 cap EOD - lef.com
Carlsons ACES - 1 cap EOD - carlsonlabs.com
Resveratrol(REZV) 1 cap EOD - t-nation.com

My biggest change was pregnenolone cream and inrease from one to six pills of Dual-Action from LEF. Wery possibly the changes are really due to increased dose of resveratol that is contained in Dual-Action.

 

[plymouth city]

I am awaiting a pregnenolone BW, that will included in my next round of bloodwork. Im curious to see how high it is and if I will have some room to play with(given its not to high).

If my current supp routine does not give me the results I want, dermacrine will be my next route - it has even more resveratrol in it(good) and pregnenolone, which will drive up T even more, possible GH(that would be a nice side bonus!), and more T as well. The only prob with Dermacrine I see for me is that it has DHEA in it - mine is already high. Bu t according to LEF, I can go in the low 600's and still be fine. I have a feeling though it might cause some acne or possible increase in estradoil if I supplement it.

Remember, its important not to look at E2 just as a number - plenty feel great with an E2 level in the high 30's and low - mid 40's. I suspect these people have lower 16 hydroxy and higher 2 hydroxy. Even if my E2 number doesn't budge, all that matters is how I respond.

I never eat eggs raw - in fact, they are better digested and absorbed cooked.

Vitex is a great supplement. I wish the biotest people still sold it. I am very wary of most supplement companies. There are only a few I trust. There has been talk over at their site for another standalone Vitex. I can't wait for that!

 

[JanSz]

I am awaiting a pregnenolone BW, that will included in my next round of bloodwork. Im curious to see how high it is and if I will have some room to play with(given its not to high).

If my current supp routine does not give me the results I want, dermacrine will be my next route - it has even more resveratrol in it(good) and pregnenolone, which will drive up T even more, possible GH(that would be a nice side bonus!), and more T as well. The only prob with Dermacrine I see for me is that it has DHEA in it - mine is already high. Bu t according to LEF, I can go in the low 600's and still be fine. I have a feeling though it might cause some acne or possible increase in estradoil if I supplement it.

Remember, its important not to look at E2 just as a number - plenty feel great with an E2 level in the high 30's and low - mid 40's. I suspect these people have lower 16 hydroxy and higher 2 hydroxy. Even if my E2 number doesn't budge, all that matters is how I respond.

I never eat eggs raw - in fact, they are better digested and absorbed cooked.

Vitex is a great supplement. I wish the biotest people still sold it. I am very wary of most supplement companies. There are only a few I trust. There has been talk over at their site for another standalone Vitex. I can't wait for that!

I was talking with pharmacist at
McGuff Compounding Pharmacy Website
They are sponsoring this site.
I did get nowhere because they have no licence to ship to NJ.
But I got nice tidbit of info.
He was about ready to consider including resveratol for my combo cream, then I learned that he do not have a supply of bulk (and clean) resveratol but would buy pills and include that in my cream. When I comented that pills contain a lot of inert material I did not get good answer.
My current cream supplier is not able to include resveratol in my cream because they do not have bulk suply of it.
That speaks about stickiness to quality, I am not really sure.
How the inert material would influence absorbability of compound cream that already have 2 or 3 ingredients in it?
Care to comment.
===========================================
There must be something about pregnenolone cream, I started using it and my DHEA sky rocketed.
For years I was not able to raise it with 350mg/day.
Quest conveniently forgot to test my pregnenolone, will have to get prick once more.
===========================================
My sex situation changed for the better (but still could be improved), but my E2 stays in exactly same place (27).
My Total Estrogens and estrone got back to acceptable range.
All estrogens counts. Should be tested and deal with.

 

[plymouth city]

I was talking with pharmacist at
McGuff Compounding Pharmacy Website
They are sponsoring this site.
I did get nowhere because they have no licence to ship to NJ.
But I got nice tidbit of info.
He was about ready to consider including resveratol for my combo cream, then I learned that he do not have a supply of bulk (and clean) resveratol but would buy pills and include that in my cream. When I comented that pills contain a lot of inert material I did not get good answer.
My current cream supplier is not able to include resveratol in my cream because they do not have bulk suply of it.
That speaks about stickiness to quality, I am not really sure.
How the inert material would influence absorbability of compound cream that already have 2 or 3 ingredients in it?
Care to comment.
===========================================
There must be something about pregnenolone cream, I started using it and my DHEA sky rocketed.
For years I was not able to raise it with 350mg/day.
Quest conveniently forgot to test my pregnenolone, will have to get prick once more.
===========================================
My sex situation changed for the better (but still could be improved), but my E2 stays in exactly same place (27).
My Total Estrogens and estrone got back to acceptable range.
All estrogens counts. Should be tested and deal with.

Pregnenolone breaks down into 17 - hydroxypregnenolone, which converts to DHEA silly, thats why it went up. DHEA oral doesn't work for most people.

I trust the Biotest people when they say resveratrol is absorbing well in an oral compound. That might be a better option for you. To keep prices low, you can always adjust your dose, say 100mg EOD. Yes, other compounds are placed into pills to encapsule them. I wouldn't want to do anything that would have the slightest chance in affecting absorbtion. So maybe hold tight until they figure everything out for you.

Your E2 is fine. I suggest getting that stronger brand of DIM that Im using, and going with an EOD dosing schedule to keep costs down, as in its a pretty strong dose of DIM. Combine that with TMG and calcium D glucarate and resveratrol, and you should be good to go at quite a low price.

 

[JanSz]

Pregnenolone breaks down into 17 - hydroxypregnenolone, which converts to DHEA silly, thats why it went up. DHEA oral doesn't work for most people.

I trust the Biotest people when they say resveratrol is absorbing well in an oral compound. That might be a better option for you. To keep prices low, you can always adjust your dose, say 100mg EOD. Yes, other compounds are placed into pills to encapsule them. I wouldn't want to do anything that would have the slightest chance in affecting absorbtion. So maybe hold tight until they figure everything out for you.

Your E2 is fine. I suggest getting that stronger brand of DIM that Im using, and going with an EOD dosing schedule to keep costs down, as in its a pretty strong dose of DIM. Combine that with TMG and calcium D glucarate and resveratrol, and you should be good to go at quite a low price.

I actually thought that it is liitle high, so I started LiquiDex, .250ml=1/4pill/day

I need to revisit my E2 situation when I get the balance of my tests. When we think that somebody is ok at E2=10 and somebody else need E2=30, that depends on what?

========================
One of the myths that I possibly can disprove is that most men test very high on Total Estrogens and nothing can be done about it. So it is not even worth to test for it.
My Total Estrogens went from 260 to 60 within six months with my dose change in Dual-Action and TMG that is DIM+I3C+cruciferous extract+resveratol+TMG.

 

[hardasnails1973]

I actually thought that it is liitle high, so I started LiquiDex, .250ml=1/4pill/day

I need to revisit my E2 situation when I get the balance of my tests. When we think that somebody is ok at E2=10 and somebody else need E2=30, that depends on what?

========================
One of the myths that I possibly can disprove is that most men test very high on Total Estrogens and nothing can be done about it. So it is not even worth to test for it.
My Total Estrogens went from 260 to 60 within six months with my dose change in Dual-Action and TMG that is DIM+I3C+cruciferous extract+resveratol+TMG.

FRom what plymouth and I have been hainv long discusions on your 16 hydroz ratios would probably be a more likely answer to how people can be at a higher estrodial and not be estrodial sensitive.

Just a theory
greater the good:bad ratio people can tolerate more e2
lower the ratio more subseptible they are to nasty effects even if e2 is "optimal " range

 

[plymouth city]

FRom what plymouth and I have been hainv long discusions on your 16 hydroz ratios would probably be a more likely answer to how people can be at a higher estrodial and not be estrodial sensitive.

Just a theory
greater the good:bad ratio people can tolerate more e2
lower the ratio more subseptible they are to nasty effects even if e2 is "optimal " range

Check this out - FAQs about Diindolylmethane

Note the different kinds of estrogens(16 hydroxy vs 2 hydroxy)

Remember the ratios. Higher TT/FT/DHEA means one will be fine with higher E2. This is a natural process. I'd be willing to bet that says alot of teenage boys with high TT ranging near 4 figures, DHEA's in the 600's, have E2 levels that are pushing 50's. Yet they are fine.... Wonder why?

I can specifically remember as a young lad around 14 or 15 having itchy, sensitive nips. I bet my E2 was sky high at the time due to having so much T/DHEA to E conversion. Yet I was healthy as a horse and a walking hard on, LOL.

Destroying estradoil down to very low levels with pharm grade drugs will be disproved in time, mark my words.

 

[plymouth city]

Just picked this up today, been reading great stuff about it. Carlsons Cod Liver oil, liquid form. Very, very cheap way to get quality vit a, d, e, lots of DHA and EPA and ALA to boot. I would imagine they skimp on price because cheaper to make oil rather than encapsule it. Fine with me.

This must be an old brand, the one I just got has less Vit A in it. - Carlson Laboratories - Cod Liver Oil Regular Flavor

 

[JanSz]

Check this out - FAQs about Diindolylmethane

Note the different kinds of estrogens(16 hydroxy vs 2 hydroxy)

Remember the ratios. Higher TT/FT/DHEA means one will be fine with higher E2. This is a natural process. I'd be willing to bet that says alot of teenage boys with high TT ranging near 4 figures, DHEA's in the 600's, have E2 levels that are pushing 50's. Yet they are fine.... Wonder why?

I can specifically remember as a young lad around 14 or 15 having itchy, sensitive nips. I bet my E2 was sky high at the time due to having so much T/DHEA to E conversion. Yet I was healthy as a horse and a walking hard on, LOL.

Destroying estradoil down to very low levels with pharm grade drugs will be disproved in time, mark my words.

I feel your pain.
By now the details are foggy, but at 19 I was able to release the ich only by rubbing my nipples against sweethard's.

 

[wildfox]

Plymouth City, what's your vitex dosing and what is it doing for you?

 

[plymouth city]

Plymouth City, what's your vitex dosing and what is it doing for you?

I used to take Vitex, as recently as a year ago, and I was cycling it for over a year. I loved it. I got it, obviously, from the Biotest people over at t-nation.com. It was in a product called M. I loved it. It contained, going on memory here, 300mg of Vitex, 250mg of Cal D Glucarate and Resveratrol, small dose I think of 5mg maybe. I always felt a nice boost on it, increase in libido and more overall energy.

From the site - "Vitex also works as [a Luteinizing-hormone secretagogue], but it also acts as an anti-progesterone and anti-prolactin agent, lowering progesterone and prolactin. Progesterone and prolactin are particularly nasty hormones, in that they cause ? much more than estrogen ? storage of body fat and mental depression. Prolactin can even cause lactation in men. And, by lowering progesterone and prolactin ? just like lowering estrogen ? you'll increase Testosterone through various feedback mechanisms."

I am very, very skeptical of all supplement companies, there are only a few I trust and I stay married to them. Since Biotest no longer sells it, I haven't took it in awile. They plan on re-releasing it, but like pretty much all of their projects, they seem to take awile. :frustrate . This is probably a good thing though.

Remember, Vitex is a plant based herb, and like all herbs, effectiveness can vary GREATLY depending upon quality/potency of company. There is alot of Vitex out there, I haven't seen/heard of anything from the major companies I buy from.

Check this out - Testosterone Nation - What Happened to M?

 

[plymouth city]

I feel your pain.
By now the details are foggy, but at 19 I was able to release the ich only by rubbing my nipples against sweethard's.

In actuality, by rubbing nipples you increase prolactin :jaw:

I don't tell the ladies that tidbit of info though

 

[JanSz]

In actuality, by rubbing nipples you increase prolactin :jaw:

I don't tell the ladies that tidbit of info though

Now you telling me, I knew I had strange feelings when Jackie was rubbing, I did not reasised it was milk I thought it was something else.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Now you telling me, I knew I had strange feelings when Jackie was rubbing, I did not reasised it was milk I thought it was something else.

Yep bak in the day a squeeze my nipples and liquid would squirt out a good distance . It made a great party trick LOL

 

[plymouth city]

Note to everyone - First dose of Carlsons Cod liver oil, and I realized I bought the "Natural Taste" bottle and not the "Lemon Flavored".

I remember as a young lad going fishing up north with the pops, and I used to take the little minnows he used as bait and shove them in my mouth. This stuff tastes quite similar.

 

[wildfox]

Note to everyone - First dose of Carlsons Cod liver oil, and I realized I bought the "Natural Taste" bottle and not the "Lemon Flavored".

I remember as a young lad going fishing up north with the pops, and I used to take the little minnows he used as bait and shove them in my mouth. This stuff tastes quite similar.

YUMMY!!!!

The scandinavian in me just loves that stuff!

 

[plymouth city]

YUMMY!!!!

The scandinavian in me just loves that stuff!

Ugg, the italian in me does not, LOL. Im stuck with it for the next 50 days, LOL. Oh well.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Ugg, the italian in me does not, LOL. Im stuck with it for the next 50 days, LOL. Oh well.

I;m sure you had nastier snatch tastes worse then that :rofl:

 

[plymouth city]

I;m sure you had nastier snatch tastes worse then that :rofl:

We don't call Detroit "The dirty D" for nothing. :rofl:

We have the undue pleasure of being one of the fattest and unhealthiest cities in the USA.

 

[hardasnails1973]

We don't call Detroit "The dirty D" for nothing. :rofl:

We have the undue pleasure of being one of the fattest and unhealthiest cities in the USA.

Posible you are in middle of the goiter belt of the USA having something to do with it :rofl: Iodine: Why You Need It, Why You Can’t Live Without It, 2nd Edition - Thyroid Health

 

[JanSz]

Posible you are in middle of the goiter belt of the USA having something to do with it :rofl: Iodine: Why You Need It, Why You Can’t Live Without It, 2nd Edition - Thyroid Health

Reading the linked page I found that low Iodine may be a reason for peronies.
While ago there was a question on that topic.

 

[plymouth city]

I eat my sea salts, I am quite aware of that, sadly most are not.

I have everyone in my house hooked on sea salts(and alot of other goodies), they are unaware of the good I bring to them. Trying to explain endocrinology to other people my age and I might as well try and speak it in a foreign language.

 

[plymouth city]

Very interesting how flouride intake is associated with low iodine, as they compete for eachother. I do not take in any flouride at all, as in I use organic flouride free toothpast and only drink natural mineral or spring water. Flouride is a particularily nasty substance.

 

[JanSz]

I eat my sea salts, I am quite aware of that, sadly most are not.

I have everyone in my house hooked on sea salts(and alot of other goodies), they are unaware of the good I bring to them. Trying to explain endocrinology to other people my age and I might as well try and speak it in a foreign language.

I use
Retail Himalayan Crystal Salt Orders
GF 5
5 Lb / 2.27 kg Container
$55.95 Special, Save $6.00
1 for $49.95 - Free Shipping
----------------------------------------------------
When boiling pasta or potatos I still use Shop-Rite bought ordinary Diamond Crystal iodized salt.

Minerals on my last test, should I test any other.
Calcium - 9.7 mg/dL ( 8.5-10.4 )
Carbon dioxide - 28 nmol/L ( 21-33 )
Chloride - 28 nmol/L ( 21-33 )
Copper, serum - 1856 mcg/L ( 590-1180 ) H
Ferritin - 54 ng/mL ( 20-380 ) L
Magnesium - 1.95 mg/dL ( 1.50-2.50 )
Potasium - 4.5 nmol/L ( 3.5-5.3 )
Selenium - 176 mcg/L ( 110-160 ) H
Sodium - 144 nmol/L ( 135-146 ) H
Zinc - 1051 mcg/L ( 670-1240 )

 

[hardasnails1973]

I use
Retail Himalayan Crystal Salt Orders
GF 5
5 Lb / 2.27 kg Container
$55.95 Special, Save $6.00
1 for $49.95 - Free Shipping
----------------------------------------------------
When boiling pasta or potatos I still use Shop-Rite bought ordinary Diamond Crystal iodized salt.

Minerals on my last test, should I test any other.
Calcium - 9.7 mg/dL ( 8.5-10.4 )
Carbon dioxide - 28 nmol/L ( 21-33 )
Chloride - 28 nmol/L ( 21-33 )
Copper, serum - 1856 mcg/L ( 590-1180 ) H
Ferritin - 54 ng/mL ( 20-380 ) L
Magnesium - 1.95 mg/dL ( 1.50-2.50 )
Potasium - 4.5 nmol/L ( 3.5-5.3 )
Selenium - 176 mcg/L ( 110-160 ) H
Sodium - 144 nmol/L ( 135-146 ) H
Zinc - 1051 mcg/L ( 670-1240 )

Jansz in order to get accurate reading you need to be off all multivitamins for 3 days prior before the test or go spectracell intracellular testing where vitamins consumptions are not affected and it gives your levels over 3-4 month window

copper is high mainly due to estrogen. Where ever estrogen goes copper goes..your adrenals may be over active..

 

[JanSz]

Jansz in order to get accurate reading you need to be off all multivitamins for 3 days prior before the test or go spectracell intracellular testing where vitamins consumptions are not affected and it gives your levels over 3-4 month window

copper is high mainly due to estrogen. Where ever estrogen goes copper goes..your adrenals may be over active..

I would not mind if you run this slooowly again by me.
I need to understand this better.
Any action I could/should take.
Every multivitamin contains copper.
Should I stop taking multis?
Should I do something else and then my copper will fall into good range.
I am somewhat worry about my high copper, I think I read somewhere that it have association with cancer.
I had liposarcoma surgery on my left thigh, that is a cancer, size of a quart of galon.
.
.
Aldosterone - 4 ng/dL ( <or=28 )
Cortisol AM - 18.7 ug/dL ( 4.0-22.0 )
Cortisol PM - 10.6 ug/dL ( 3.0-17.0 )
DHEA sulfate - 306 mcg/dL ( 25-95 ) H

 

[hardasnails1973]

I would not mind if you run this slooowly again by me.
I need to understand this better.
Any action I could/should take.
Every multivitamin contains copper.
Should I stop taking multis?
Should I do something else and then my copper will fall into good range.
I am somewhat worry about my high copper, I think I read somewhere that it have association with cancer.
I had liposarcoma surgery on my left thigh, that is a cancer, size of a quart of galon.
.
.
Aldosterone - 4 ng/dL ( <or=28 )
Cortisol AM - 18.7 ug/dL ( 4.0-22.0 )
Cortisol PM - 10.6 ug/dL ( 3.0-17.0 )
DHEA sulfate - 306 mcg/dL ( 25-95 ) H

One of the guys tested high iron and he found out it was from his cereal. you need to be off all vitamins 3 days prior or you are only going to see what is floating around in the blood stream. this happened to me. I was zinc defieicnt for 3 years but kept coming up on low end of normal because i was taking my vitamins day prior before the test, but testing on low end of normal. If i had stopped them then you would have seen it. i went to spectracell intracellular testing and that when it was caught !!

 

[plymouth city]

I would not mind if you run this slooowly again by me.
I need to understand this better.
Any action I could/should take.
Every multivitamin contains copper.
Should I stop taking multis?
Should I do something else and then my copper will fall into good range.
I am somewhat worry about my high copper, I think I read somewhere that it have association with cancer.
I had liposarcoma surgery on my left thigh, that is a cancer, size of a quart of galon.
.
.
Aldosterone - 4 ng/dL ( <or=28 )
Cortisol AM - 18.7 ug/dL ( 4.0-22.0 )
Cortisol PM - 10.6 ug/dL ( 3.0-17.0 )
DHEA sulfate - 306 mcg/dL ( 25-95 ) H

This is one of the reasons, amoungst a million others, why I do not take multivitamins and I feel they are junk.

To much stuff cramed into one pill. This stuff is notorious for not absorbing well, or at all. Most use forms of vitamins/minerals that are not very well absorbed. And remember, if it has calcium in it, forget about other mineral absorbtion.

I suggest ZMA as usual, by itself at night. And I love the Carlson people. Good, quality products. I like The cod liver oil. High quality vitamin A, C, D, E and essential fatty acids. And The Vit A, C, E, Selenium combo.

If your big into taking lots of vitamins/minerals, I would suggest 2 things.

Seperate the vitamin from the mineral intake. Take vit in morning, mineral later in day.

Second try and get quality vitamins and minerals. I like Carlsons, again.

 

[hardasnails1973]

This is one of the reasons, amoungst a million others, why I do not take multivitamins and I feel they are junk.

To much stuff cramed into one pill. This stuff is notorious for not absorbing well, or at all. Most use forms of vitamins/minerals that are not very well absorbed. And remember, if it has calcium in it, forget about other mineral absorbtion.

I suggest ZMA as usual, by itself at night. And I love the Carlson people. Good, quality products. I like The cod liver oil. High quality vitamin A, C, D, E and essential fatty acids. And The Vit A, C, E, Selenium combo.

If your big into taking lots of vitamins/minerals, I would suggest 2 things.

Seperate the vitamin from the mineral intake. Take vit in morning, mineral later in day.

Second try and get quality vitamins and minerals. I like Carlsons, again.

What about the lovely synergistic effect that vitamin and minerals have in common when taken together ... :rofl:

 

[wildfox]

hardasnails: any opinion on the Animal Pak by Universal Nutrition?

 

[hardasnails1973]

hardasnails: any opinion on the Animal Pak by Universal Nutrition?

Anything with prohormone stay away from..
I use intramax its liquid organic and replaces over 300 bucks worth of supplmements a monthfor 80 bucks

 

[plymouth city]

hardasnails: any opinion on the Animal Pak by Universal Nutrition?

Well lets take a look -

Mega-Vitamin/Mineral/Antioxidant Complex
• Zinc(oxide, waste, not readibly absorbed)
• Chromium
• Magnesium(oxide, again not good)
• All The B Vitamins
• Copper
• Manganese
• Potassium
• Phosphorous
• Vitamins
• Vitamin C
• Vitamin E
• Selenium
• Folic Acid
Key Amino Acid Blend
• Arginine
• Leucine
• Valine
• Isoleucine
• Glutamine
• Methionine
• Lysine
• Histidine
• Threonine
• Phenylalanine
• Tyrosine
• Cysteine
Performance Optimizers
• L-Carnitine
• Pyridoxine Alpha-Ketoglutarate
• Coenzymes A & B
• Para-Aminobenzoic Acid
• Siberian Ginseng (Eleuthero)
• Oriental Ginseng (Panax Ginseng)
• Alpha Lipoic Acid (Thioctic Acid)
• IGF Colostrum
• Phosphatidylcholine
Joint & Bone Support
• Shark Cartilage
• Calcium
• Vitamin D
• Magnesium
EFA Complex
• Linoleic Acid
• Oleic Acid
Digestive Enzymes
• Papain
• Pepsin
• Pancreatin
• Micozyme

Yep, way to much crammed in. 44 day supply for 42 bucks eh? :run:

Calcium in this? :frustrate Pretty much makes all the rest of the minerals in it a complete waste, as they will NOT digest.

Looks to me like your typical multi with BCAA's thrown in.

This product won't find its way into my fridge anytime soon :rofl:

Ive got a better way to make this - One red bull, one multi, handfull of BCAA's, wash down.

 

[wildfox]

Anything with prohormone stay away from..
I use intramax its liquid organic and replaces over 300 bucks worth of supplmements a monthfor 80 bucks

I don't see any prohormones on the Animal Pak ingredient list. Which ingredient(s) of Animal Pak is a prohormone?

 

[wildfox]

Well lets take a look -
Yep, way to much crammed in. 44 day supply for 42 bucks eh? :run:

I pay $19 for 44 day supply.

Thanks for the feedback.

P.S. Sorry for hijacking your log, Plymouth City.

 

[hardasnails1973]

I pay $19 for 44 day supply.

Thanks for the feedback.

you get what you pay for too :jaw:

I look for bioavailability more then price.
How many people are magnesium defcient but still take a multi thats because what is used in multi is not absorbale LOL

3000 mgs magnesium oxide breaks down to about may be 150-300 mgs elemental magnesium.
5000 mgs calcium carb = around 800 elemental providing you have adquete stomach acids to break it down

 

[plymouth city]

I pay $19 for 44 day supply.

Thanks for the feedback.

P.S. Sorry for hijacking your log, Plymouth City.

LOL all good, I love the discussion.

Wildfox, Be very wary of everything you put into your body. Many supplement companies out there, and it looks like Animal Pak is another one, fall into the trap of "More is better". They try to outdue eachother by simply cramming in everything but the kitchen sink, compromising not just quality but safty. Just look at the amounts of vitamins they are stuffing into this product alone.

Once I seen that they used Oxide for Zinc/Magnesium I knew this product was crap. Plus throwing in a jumbo dose of calcium almost guarantees alot of this stuff won't be absorbed.

This is all basic, laymen knowledge of vitamin/mineral interaction/absorbtion. The fact that the so called chemists and scientists who put this product together did this, makes me very, very skeptical of their knowledge.

I trust no one in the supplement biz and take everything and everything with the utmost scrutiny. My bullsh it detector is probably better than most, but still, be carefull of what you take.

 

[JanSz]

LOL all good, I love the discussion.

Wildfox, Be very wary of everything you put into your body. Many supplement companies out there, and it looks like Animal Pak is another one, fall into the trap of "More is better". They try to outdue eachother by simply cramming in everything but the kitchen sink, compromising not just quality but safty. Just look at the amounts of vitamins they are stuffing into this product alone.

Once I seen that they used Oxide for Zinc/Magnesium I knew this product was crap. Plus throwing in a jumbo dose of calcium almost guarantees alot of this stuff won't be absorbed.

This is all basic, laymen knowledge of vitamin/mineral interaction/absorbtion. The fact that the so called chemists and scientists who put this product together did this, makes me very, very skeptical of their knowledge.

I trust no one in the supplement biz and take everything and everything with the utmost scrutiny. My bullsh it detector is probably better than most, but still, be carefull of what you take.

Please evaluate the multis that I take:
Life Extension Mix™ With Extra Niacin, 315 Tablets
This is LEF and they brag about their quality and the number of scientists and doctors involved in producing their supplements and advice. Probably about 100 of doctors and scientists.
=========================================
Life Extension: Medical Advisory Board
Medical Advisory | The Foundation's Medical Advisory Board represents collectively today's best thinking in both mainstream and alternative medicine.

=================
Life Extension Scientific Advisory Board
Scientific Advisory | Tapping into the extensive expertise of these researchers and physicians is a crucial step in the helping the Foundation find ways to enhance and extend life.

 

[JanSz]

Anything with prohormone stay away from..
I use intramax its liquid organic and replaces over 300 bucks worth of supplmements a monthfor 80 bucks

There is AnimalPak multis and minerals

There is a whole gamout of Stacks
Article Details


• Animal Pak
• Animal Cuts
• Animal M-Stak
• Animal Stak 2
• Animal Nitro
• Animal Nitro G

 

[plymouth city]

Please evaluate the multis that I take:
Life Extension Mix™ With Extra Niacin, 315 Tablets
This is LEF and they brag about their quality and the number of scientists and doctors involved in producing their supplements and advice. Probably about 100 of doctors and scientists.
=========================================
Life Extension: Medical Advisory Board
Medical Advisory | The Foundation's Medical Advisory Board represents collectively today's best thinking in both mainstream and alternative medicine.

=================
Life Extension Scientific Advisory Board
Scientific Advisory | Tapping into the extensive expertise of these researchers and physicians is a crucial step in the helping the Foundation find ways to enhance and extend life.

Funny you mention that, because I was just about to say that I think that LEF multi might be one of the better ones out there.

I will say that only a portion of that stuff will be absorbed, but its a good insurance policy.

I wouldn't take the full dose of that, you could easily get away with less amount.

If they have a brand without copper that would be better.

LEF are good people with quality products. No Biotest, but they are far above most of the rest.

 

[plymouth city]

Alright, its been nearly 2 weeks and that dam Nick Delgado from ultimatemedsolutions.com brand of DIM has STILL not arrived on my doorstep :frustrate

LEF, Carlsons, Biotest, all here by 3 days after order. I think he is due for a nasty email :whip:

Ive been toying with the idea of cycling some DHEA and seeing what happens. Im high at 520, but the LEF people say I can go to 660 safely. Hmmmmm....Experiements are fun. A few 2 week on 2 off cycles aren't gonna hurt anything. 25mg every day? Any opinions on LEF brand? I know of another brand that works well, but I like to support LEF and buy in bulk there.

I think I might also pick up there multi. No way Im popping 9 caps a day of that stuff, maybe a couple a day as an insurance policy.

BTW, Ive gotten morning wood on and off for the last couple weeks. :cheers: First time in a few years......

 

[plymouth city]

you get what you pay for too :jaw:

I look for bioavailability more then price.
How many people are magnesium defcient but still take a multi thats because what is used in multi is not absorbale LOL

3000 mgs magnesium oxide breaks down to about may be 150-300 mgs elemental magnesium.
5000 mgs calcium carb = around 800 elemental providing you have adquete stomach acids to break it down

Vitamin K/K2 helps the body adequately deal/absorb Calcium.

 

[JanSz]

Funny you mention that, because I was just about to say that I think that LEF multi might be one of the better ones out there.

I will say that only a portion of that stuff will be absorbed, but its a good insurance policy.

I wouldn't take the full dose of that, you could easily get away with less amount.

If they have a brand without copper that would be better.

LEF are good people with quality products. No Biotest, but they are far above most of the rest.

I am ordering:
Life Extension Mix™ With Extra Niacin Without Copper, 315 Tablets

I used to use:
Life Extension Mix™ With Extra Niacin, 315 Tablets

That is my only logical choice at the moment.
Within about 3 months I will do my next test, will see how things are.

I will be searching for a list of items that short test should have.
I do long test only once/year.
Possibly that is too often.

 

[plymouth city]

I am ordering:
Life Extension Mix™ With Extra Niacin Without Copper, 315 Tablets

I used to use:
Life Extension Mix™ With Extra Niacin, 315 Tablets

That is my only logical choice at the moment.
Within about 3 months I will do my next test, will see how things are.

I will be searching for a list of items that short test should have.
I do long test only once/year.
Possibly that is too often.

I figured you would be up on that no copper brand

Im up in air on testing. Once a year full tests is good. However its diff to gauge how well diff supplements/drugs work based on once a year tests, given the amount of experiementing one wants to do per year.

Possible better idea is to get more frequent, short, specific tests when one is trying to guage how well particular drug/supp is working.

 

[plymouth city]

Im picking up one of these bad boys on monday - Official Site : Jack LaLanne's Power Juicer As Seen On TV - The Official Power Juicer Site for Fast Healthy Fresh Fruit Juice and Vegetable Juice in Seconds.

Never juiced much before, but I am getting to busy with school/work/hobbies and everything to even cook anymore, Im thinking this will save time and give me lots of quality veg/fruit mixes.

 

[engival]

plymouth city i been making vegetable juice for 2 years, i love the Omega 8003, so easy to clean and use.

 

[plymouth city]

Charles Poliquin is great. This is from his site about how to choose a multi. Notice what he says about Oxide forms, which is exactly what I was saying about Animal Paks product being crappy What I also like is that he favors aspartate, which is what Biotest uses(Of course). For those of you not familiar, Charles is THE CUTTING EDGE when it comes to strength trainers and supplement/nutrition gurus.

Five tips to finding a better multi-vitamin/mineral supplement
By Charles Poliquin

It is a real challenge for the average consumer to go a health food store and select a quality multi-vitamin/mineral supplement. Here are five tips that can help you to get your money’s worth.


Tip 1: What type of magnesium does it have?

This consideration eliminates virtually 80% of the choices out there. Inclusion of magnesium oxide is a dead give-away indicator of a poor supplement. If it has magnesium oxide as the source of magnesium, avoid that brand.

Magnesium oxide is the cheapest form of magnesium available. You might assume that a company that includes this ingredient cares only about the bottom line. It is possible that they don’t give a hoot about your health. Magnesium oxide is at best only 5% absorbable compared to other forms that are like magnesium citrate (25%) and aspartate (58%).

Here is a simple tip - if the magnesium is good, it should a word attached to it that ends in “ate” (e.g. magnesium taurate, magnesium fumarate, magnesium glycinate etc…)

Tip 2: All minerals should be chelated.

Chelation means that they are bound to an amino acid, which facilitates absorption. The gold standard in the industry is Albion chelates (check for it on the label.)

Albion minerals are mainly chelated to the amino acid glycine, due to its low molecular weight. It helps to slow the degeneration of muscle tissue, aiding the synthesis of creatine. Glycine is involved in enery production, formation of amino acids for the immune system, CNS function, and prostate health.

Tip 3: Check for the levels of manganese.

Your daily dose should not give you more than 5-7 mg of manganese. The margin for error for minerals is far smaller than it is for vitamins.

High dosages of manganese are neuro-toxic. That is why giving soy-based formulas to infants has been linked to the increased incidence of Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD.)

Soy infant formulas have 80 times the concentration of manganese of human breast milk. Many store brands of MVM give 20 mg or more per day.

Tip 4: Gamma tocopherol should be the primary fraction of vitamin E supplied.

Many individuals and even researchers are unaware that natural Vitamin E is a family of four tocopherols and four tocotrienols, which occur in various ratios in different foods. Since humans and animals do not synthesize their own vitamin E, they primarily acquire tocopherols from plants, which are the only living things capable of making vitamin E. Gamma-Tocopherol is often the most prevalent form of vitamin E in plant foods and seeds.

Tip 5: Balanced in iodine and selenium content.

Both trace minerals must be present in the correct order for thyroid health to occur.
Imbalanced intake of iodine and selenium should be avoided as this may impair thyroid function.

Please consider these tips when buying your supplements. They may provide you with the edge you are seeking.

 

[plymouth city]

Quick little update. DIM has still not arrived. Ultimatemedresearch.com gets an F on shipping from me.

I have decided given the amount of Zinc I take on a daily basis that I need a copper supplement. Any ideas? Preferable something I can get at Better Health Store Vitamins, Supplements, Organic Foods

Alot of double edge sword stuff going on. Libido and energy are up big time, yet because of low GH, my body is having trouble keeping up with mind. I have so much energy to stay active all day, but i wake up next morning with stiff, sore joints. Workout recovery is still in the toilet and probably will be until i start GH therapy.

On a more positive note, I have been sleeping like an absolute rock. This may be insulin related as well, given I always slept well on low GL index food diets.

 

[plymouth city]

plymouth city i been making vegetable juice for 2 years, i love the Omega 8003, so easy to clean and use.

Oh man that thing is sweet, but dam expensive at 2 bills. The Jack Lalanne juicer got good reviews and its only 1 bill and I get a 20 percent discount cause friend works at store. havent picked it up yet.

 

[plymouth city]

Any opinions on this - CHELATED COPPER TABS from SOLGAR at the Better Health Store

Im assuming because its chelated it will have better absorbtion.

2mg QD? I take 20mg of Zinc Aspartate QD. From what Ive read a 10:1 ratio is best. Any ideas?