25 Year old UK guy, low testosterone / adrenal dysfunction? - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 2

25 Year old UK guy, low testosterone / adrenal dysfunction?

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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    I agree with youx and I have no desirto start on TRT, but the nutra Eval is out of my price range for now so I am trying to. work with the tests I have had so far.

    Your theory on heavy metals could make sense with my high zinc intake until recently I will get zinc and coper tested -have already had lead, mercury done.

    Given that the eyes are affected by zinc I wonder if. that could explain the eye dryness and black floaters I have.

    Thanks for the advice as ever and yes in an ideal world I would have the nutra Eval done tomorrow!
    Then you work around it which can be done using common sense and knowing the complex network of metabolic and enzymatic pathways as well as to manipulate them. I am thinking methylation issues since you are a brit which majority of them have in the first place due to angelo -saxon back ground. This would explain your body may not have the ablity to unload heavy metal or toxins which can cause a whole host of problem in it self. Eye dryness is most likely EFA deficiency which can be cause from body not being able to absorbed or convert fats through specific enzymatic pathways. Working with these cases can be a real challenge, but over all there is usually a simple underlying issue which is over looked in majority of them. Keep plugging away..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

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    matrix-what is your opinion on hair mineral analysis? Is it useful or quackery? I cannot afford the 700 for nutra Eval but can afford 50 for hmta. Would this be a a good idea to rule out heavy metals or coppet/zinc imbalances?
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    matrix-what is your opinion on hair mineral analysis? Is it useful or quackery? I cannot afford the 700 for nutra Eval but can afford 50 for hmta. Would this be a a good idea to rule out heavy metals or coppet/zinc imbalances?
    I used it from another bloke and it showed information which was hidden. You need to get it from a good lab one that does not wash the hair other wise it is invalid. If one was not used to reading them his imbalance would have not been found it was hidden. Once making the corrections he had a significant clinical response and is doing fine. IT took him 3 months to feel the changes once made. People have to be patient. Heavy metals can hide showing up low levels and really being high because they are locked in the tissue not being released.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Any suggestions for a UK lab? Genenova don't seem to do it
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    Any suggestions for a UK lab? Genenova don't seem to do it
    I think he did it ARL. Let me check I still might have it. If I can remember his name LOL

    Too answer your question about nutraeval you asked the peanut gallery,
    Do you need it? No. If there is enough data available then proper pathology and imbalances may be identified through detailed analysis and evaluation. Will it help yes to rule out a lot of things taking guessing work out, but is not a necessity. I would probably put that money towards the things which will help you recovery. Its really the skill of the person who is handling your case which is going to determine the finally out come.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    I have just e-mailed the spectracell rep as apparently they are now testing in the UK, it should be significantly cheaper hopefully.

    I have no problem spending the money,once saved, as long as I know it is well spent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    I have just e-mailed the spectracell rep as apparently they are now testing in the UK, it should be significantly cheaper hopefully.

    I have no problem spending the money,once saved, as long as I know it is well spent.
    I do not like spectra cell because does not give functionality.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    I will hopefully have enough for the Nutreval by next month, I don't see any other option in the way of testing. If it doesn't show up anything useful then I am at my wits end and will be begining self prescribed TRT.

    My relationship has just ended and my job is hanging by a thread so there has to come a point where I just think sod it and replace what it is missing artificially, as nice as it may be to find the root cause.
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    I will hopefully have enough for the Nutreval by next month, I don't see any other option in the way of testing. If it doesn't show up anything useful then I am at my wits end and will be begining self prescribed TRT.

    My relationship has just ended and my job is hanging by a thread so there has to come a point where I just think sod it and replace what it is missing artificially, as nice as it may be to find the root cause.
    It will give more clinical support, but worst case scenerio with good detailed information, and lab reports one can get close to 70-80% with in what nutra eval was going to show. Since the protocols would probably be the same. So again you may want to think about forgoing it saving the money to use for correct imbalance which may be present. Yes, but if you replace it artificially it will make you feel good for a few months. I have seen this scenerio time and time again only to result in back at ground zero 4-6 months later. Do I agree with supporting hormone to make you feel better YES then go back fill things over a 4-6 months period. In your situation here is what I would do. If you go on HRT you may feel better for short haul , but atleast you will have quality of life to function and work. During this time you will be able to implement things to start to back fill hidden issues. Worst case scenerio you go on HRT feel better then crash 4-5 months later, then you are back to square one with 4-5 months wasted ...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    But if I'm not sure what I need to buy to support myself or correct the imbalances? The only imbalance I can see in my tests so far is low testosterone, lowish cortisol and high RT3, low body temperature.

    Out of all of the supplements I have tried so far only pregnenolone seems to have had a real tangible benefit.

    I will have the money in a month so I suppose it is worth the investment as I have no other path to go down with Dr's. No Dr in the UK is worth paying to see as non will prescribe TRT at that testosterone level.

    So I suppose I will just look at it as 700 investment in Nutreval ---> if that doesn't work then 40 a month investment in testosterone, HCG and AI.

    I can't thank you enough for your help and advice matrix, you have taken more of an interest than paid NHS employees ever have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    But if I'm not sure what I need to buy to support myself or correct the imbalances? The only imbalance I can see in my tests so far is low testosterone, lowish cortisol and high RT3, low body temperature.

    Out of all of the supplements I have tried so far only pregnenolone seems to have had a real tangible benefit.

    I will have the money in a month so I suppose it is worth the investment as I have no other path to go down with Dr's. No Dr in the UK is worth paying to see as non will prescribe TRT at that testosterone level.

    So I suppose I will just look at it as 700 investment in Nutreval ---> if that doesn't work then 40 a month investment in testosterone, HCG and AI.

    I can't thank you enough for your help and advice matrix, you have taken more of an interest than paid NHS employees ever have.
    Why I got into this field my friend, I am still working on getting in contact with Dr in UK, I have my more people then you know on looking for one. Once I get a one to take a leap of faith ..it will be well worth it. I have people here in the USA and europe which are just a year or so from finishing med school then you will see a what I am truly capable off. It took me years to net work here and also in europe to get to the level as I am. Its only a matter of time....
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Hi matrix- think I may have a nutreval in the next couple of weeks as have moved back in with the parents so I can spend all of my salary on treatment.

    I wanted to ask something though while I think on. Have you got any links to studies on mdma / cocaine affect on neurotransmitters or hpta axis? Only in 2010,about 4 months before I began overtraining I was using some of the above at weekends. Obviously I haven't since that small foolish spell but am wondering if there could be some kind of dopamine / serotonin issue that has precluded the low cortisol and low testosterone? Does the nutreval reliably test neurotransmitters etc?

    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    Hi matrix- think I may have a nutreval in the next couple of weeks as have moved back in with the parents so I can spend all of my salary on treatment.

    I wanted to ask something though while I think on. Have you got any links to studies on mdma / cocaine affect on neurotransmitters or hpta axis? Only in 2010,about 4 months before I began overtraining I was using some of the above at weekends. Obviously I haven't since that small foolish spell but am wondering if there could be some kind of dopamine / serotonin issue that has precluded the low cortisol and low testosterone? Does the nutreval reliably test neurotransmitters etc?

    Thanks
    Yes there could be multiple factors for how you are feeling. You just have to look at the entire pics
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Matrix - I am in need of your help once more. Your persistance with me and in encouraging me to test for minerals / nutritional imbalances may finally have paid off.

    I received the results of an iron panel this morning amongst some other results and was suprised by the findings. I had been advised by various members of ATM and on other sites to ensure my iron was adequate before attempting to lower my RT3 with T3.

    I was therefore really suprised to see my Iron so high:

    BIOCHEMISTRY
    SODIUM *151 mmol/L 135 - 145
    POTASSIUM ? Storage changes
    CHLORIDE 100 mmol/L 98 - 107
    BICARBONATE 24 mmol/l 22 - 29
    UREA 7.8 mmol/L 1.7 - 8.3
    CREATININE *121 umol/L 66 - 112
    BILIRUBIN 13 umol/L 0 - 20
    ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 54 IU/L 40 - 129
    ASPARTATE TRANSFERASE 27 IU/L 0 - 37
    ALANINE TRANSFERASE 35 IU/L 10 - 50
    LDH 221 IU/L 135 - 225
    CK 121 IU/L 38 - 204
    GAMMA GT 17 IU/L 10 - 71
    TOTAL PROTEIN 71 g/L 63 - 83
    ALBUMIN 49 g/L 34 - 50
    GLOBULIN 22 g/L 19 - 35
    CALCIUM 2.52 mmol/L 2.15 - 2.55
    Corrected Calcium 2.43 mmol/L 2.15 - 2.55
    PHOSPHATE ? Storage changes
    URIC ACID *206 umol/L 266 - 474
    RANDOM BLOOD GLUCOSE (FL) 4.7 mmol/L 3.5 - 7.9
    TRIGLYCERIDES 0.7 mmol/L < 2.3
    CHOLESTEROL *6.0 mmol/L Optimum <5.0
    HDL CHOLESTEROL *1.9 mmol/L 0.9 - 1.5
    HDL % of total 32 % 20 and over
    LDL CHOLESTEROL *3.8 mmol/L Up to 3.0
    IRON *35.5 umol/L 10.6 - 28.3
    T.I.B.C 53 umol/L 41 - 77
    TRANSFERRIN SATURATION *67 % 20 - 55

    ENDOCRINOLOGY
    THYROID STIMULATING HORMONE 0.81 mIU/L 0.27 - 4.2
    FREE THYROXINE 16.0 pmol/l 12.0 - 22.0
    TESTOSTERONE 12.5 nmol/L 7.6 - 31.4
    Reference Ranges apply to adults

    Could it be that I all along this past 18 months, doctors have missed a relatively easy diagnosis of haemochromatosis which could explain all of symptoms, including reduced testosterone? Are blood levels like that diagnostic of it?

    I am going my GP tomorrow to insist on a referral to a haemotologist but I wonder if this could be the missing link?
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    Matrix - I am in need of your help once more. Your persistance with me and in encouraging me to test for minerals / nutritional imbalances may finally have paid off.

    I received the results of an iron panel this morning amongst some other results and was suprised by the findings. I had been advised by various members of ATM and on other sites to ensure my iron was adequate before attempting to lower my RT3 with T3.

    I was therefore really suprised to see my Iron so high:

    BIOCHEMISTRY
    SODIUM *151 mmol/L 135 - 145
    POTASSIUM ? Storage changes
    CHLORIDE 100 mmol/L 98 - 107
    BICARBONATE 24 mmol/l 22 - 29
    UREA 7.8 mmol/L 1.7 - 8.3
    CREATININE *121 umol/L 66 - 112
    BILIRUBIN 13 umol/L 0 - 20
    ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 54 IU/L 40 - 129
    ASPARTATE TRANSFERASE 27 IU/L 0 - 37
    ALANINE TRANSFERASE 35 IU/L 10 - 50
    LDH 221 IU/L 135 - 225
    CK 121 IU/L 38 - 204
    GAMMA GT 17 IU/L 10 - 71
    TOTAL PROTEIN 71 g/L 63 - 83
    ALBUMIN 49 g/L 34 - 50
    GLOBULIN 22 g/L 19 - 35
    CALCIUM 2.52 mmol/L 2.15 - 2.55
    Corrected Calcium 2.43 mmol/L 2.15 - 2.55
    PHOSPHATE ? Storage changes
    URIC ACID *206 umol/L 266 - 474
    RANDOM BLOOD GLUCOSE (FL) 4.7 mmol/L 3.5 - 7.9
    TRIGLYCERIDES 0.7 mmol/L < 2.3
    CHOLESTEROL *6.0 mmol/L Optimum <5.0
    HDL CHOLESTEROL *1.9 mmol/L 0.9 - 1.5
    HDL % of total 32 % 20 and over
    LDL CHOLESTEROL *3.8 mmol/L Up to 3.0
    IRON *35.5 umol/L 10.6 - 28.3
    T.I.B.C 53 umol/L 41 - 77
    TRANSFERRIN SATURATION *67 % 20 - 55

    ENDOCRINOLOGY
    THYROID STIMULATING HORMONE 0.81 mIU/L 0.27 - 4.2
    FREE THYROXINE 16.0 pmol/l 12.0 - 22.0
    TESTOSTERONE 12.5 nmol/L 7.6 - 31.4
    Reference Ranges apply to adults

    Could it be that I all along this past 18 months, doctors have missed a relatively easy diagnosis of haemochromatosis which could explain all of symptoms, including reduced testosterone? Are blood levels like that diagnostic of it?

    I am going my GP tomorrow to insist on a referral to a haemotologist but I wonder if this could be the missing link?
    Yep,
    I have dealt with hemochromatosis in the past with a few people, and if their Dr's would have been doing proper investigation as they should have. Instead of placing them on HRT which created a whole slew of metabolic mishaps resulting in going on cortef, and completely barking up they, should have keep digging for the root cause, As I have heard, I do not know anything. I create messes for other people to clean up. Seems to be the other way around .....

    Ok your
    ALK - is on low end identifying gas pedal is not being applied which may refer to low vitamin D , thyroid, adrenal,or testosterone, imbalance. ALK I have learn to refer to as hidden metabolic past pedal >65 is a good <55 tends to be red flag for issues.

    Low uric acid could mean low molybednum which GUESS WHAT HELPS METABOLIZE IRON FROM STORES !! Uric acid is also a powerful antioxident, low levels may also indicate heavy metals toxicity. May also indicate copper imbalances which uric acid is highly assoicated with

    Cholesterol - Could indicate thyroid issues - given
    LDH is on high end, but these markers are representation of what is happening in the blood, and are 3-6 months behind what is happening in the tissue. Indicating the process may have started months ago...

    Need to check ferritin levels to be sure. Anything over 250 with these other readings may be a flag for further investigation

    Where is SHBG
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Only have SHBG and Ferritin from January but they are:

    Ferritin 203 ugl (30-330)
    SHBG 30nmoll (13-71)

    Is the only way to confirm a diagnosis of haemochromatosis through genetic testing? Is a Haemotologist my best bet?

    If it is not that then are there other causes for high iron, other than supplements or transfusions?

    If I was to reduce Iron by giving blood - would it be likely that my endocrine system may pick up , or is the damage likely to be lasting?

    Going to try and get copper, zinc, magnesium and maganese tested.

    Thank you for the speedy reply, ATM is missing out on a valuable member without you on hand there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    Only have SHBG and Ferritin from January but they are:

    Ferritin 203 ugl (30-330)
    SHBG 30nmoll (13-71)

    Is the only way to confirm a diagnosis of haemochromatosis through genetic testing? Is a Haemotologist my best bet?

    If it is not that then are there other causes for high iron, other than supplements or transfusions?

    If I was to reduce Iron by giving blood - would it be likely that my endocrine system may pick up , or is the damage likely to be lasting?

    Going to try and get copper, zinc, magnesium and maganese tested.

    Thank you for the speedy reply, ATM is missing out on a valuable member without you on hand there.
    My friend silence is golden...As mentioned before I do not have to say a word nature will take over..
    You need to have this confirmed, iron serum being high could be from high dietary intake, so this need to be medically ruled out properly so you need to have a good hemotologist, but there are signs in your blood something is going on and its not all in your head.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Thanks Matrix. Would be useful to get RBC mineral testing but nowhere in the UK offers it unfortunately.
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    Appointment with new endo today was laughable. You'd think I'd be frustrated or annoyed but unfortunately its just the sub-standard care I've come to expect from the NHS.

    Told it likely wasn't a hormone problem, that despite being just inside the reference range I should have zero symptoms of low test, levels shouldn't be adjusted for age, there was no merit in getting my levels up to the top of the reference range to see if symptoms improve and all the usual NHS bs. Also told RT3 was a worthless lab and the theory it affected T3 was not accepted.

    Then to really endear himself to me he said 'If your bloods come back 'normal again', we will re-refer you to the Chronic Fatigue Specialist for another look" (Background: I saw the top CFS expert in the country recently who categorically ruled out CFS and said I didn't fit the profile and it wasn't a helpful diagnosis for me. Todays endo has seen a copy of that letter!!!)

    So basially having failed to label me once they want to try and have another crack.

    The only upside of it was he agreed to the laundry list of blood tests I went in with. However then when I asked when I could get a copy of the results he told me he'd give them to me at the next clinic. When I asked how soon that would be he said 'Oh quite soon, earliest one is 6 months'. Jesus f*cking wept. There will be a freedom of information request winging its way to his secretary.

    As if I am going to wait that long before I am forced to self medicate or look elsewhere. I really wonder how these people get their jobs. This was a head of department as well, not some fresh faced youngster.

    Just waiting on the results of my NutrEval Plus and the genetic test for HH. If it comes back normal and there is nothing to rectify in terms of imbalances or toxicities then I am ploughing full speed ahead with hydrocortisone and T3 for 12 weeks. (I stopped the last protocol I'd started early as I decided to get the NutrEval done and rule out possible causes of elevated RT3 before I reduce it.)

    If theres stuff to look at though then I'll be looking for some help from you Matrix if thats alright.
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    Update:

    Haemochromatosis C282y Gene - Negative

    Serum Iron 18 umol/l (10-30)
    Serum TIBC 53umol/l (40-70)
    Saturation Iron Binding Capacity 34%

    Serum Ferritin 117 (30 - 330 ug/l)

    Looks like its not haemochromatosis then. Iron levels fell as expected after giving blood once. Now waiting on the results of NutrEval to hopefully see what it actually IS.
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    Just wanted to let you know I'm still following along, man.
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    thanks for the support man - just can't wait for these Nutreval results now. Its been 3 weeks and suspense is killing me.

    On a slight positive consultant endo has agreed to an Oral Glucose Tolerance Test with Growth Hormone for a few weeks time so that will be another useful diagnostic tool
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    thanks for the support man - just can't wait for these Nutreval results now. Its been 3 weeks and suspense is killing me.

    On a slight positive consultant endo has agreed to an Oral Glucose Tolerance Test with Growth Hormone for a few weeks time so that will be another useful diagnostic tool
    Excellent,
    OnceI get full back ground of case, nutra eval , testing results then we will tear into this ...I also can bring in other specialists from USA here if need be on your case. This is the one of the perks of going to seminars a few times a month you get to meet great medical professionals from all different fields.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Bump - sorry about this but need 20 more posts to be able to post links to my NutrEval tests for you guys to look at. They've just come through.
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    My NutrEval has just come through! Would really appreciate everyones help with having a look at it, especially yours Matrix.

    I haven't uploaded the FACT1 part as I have zero food allergies or even intolerences to report. I'm fine with wheat and dairy which are two things I'd cut out but may not need to have.

    The main body of the report though suggests I have a serious Vitamin C deficiency, a-lipoic acid deficiency and Lead only just within the reference range.

    I moved into a new flat 01/10/10 and began to get ill 25/12/10. I finally moved out of the new flat 25/02/12 as my job is under the threat due to illness. Blood for the Nutreval was drawn 13/04/12 giving a few weeks for levels to fall and be just within the reference range.

    I don't want to jump to conclusions but could this be the answer all along - lead poisoning. I eat 7 or 8 servings of fruit and veg per day so should be fine for Vit C, but doesn't Vit C get used up removing heavy metals?

    Download link to the report is below if anyone is good with them. There are some othere values slightly high and low but lead would seem to be the stand out one due to its toxicity - explaining the RT3?

    http://www.4shared.com/get/Qxw1cbZ7/Qwertynutreval.html

    Also, my second adrenal stress index came back (first one earlier in the thread was December when cortisol was low) and now cortisol is HIGH! if anything. Pours further fire on the idea of adrenal 'fatigue'

    http://www.4shared.com/get/oU2qF4jZ/QwertyASI.html
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