25 Year old UK guy, low testosterone / adrenal dysfunction?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    I am looking into getting the Nutra Eval kit from Genova, however I may not be able to afford the full kit if I can't get it for free. I may be able to afford the FACT kit which tests allergies and intoleranes.

    Interestingly, on another forum a PT suggested I dropped all grain products and all fruit from my diet to balance my blood sugar and allow the adrenals some breathing room. I was having a large bowl of muesli, whey and berries for breakfast and now am having scrambled eggs and bacon. I have had much more constant energy in work feel better in general.

    It is making me wonder whether I may have a gluten intolerance, as i have read that can impact on the digestion of nutrients and contibute towards lower hormone levels and energy in general, as well as giving the body a constant source of inflammation to deal withl.
    Majority of issues people are dealing with can be resolved through modifcation of life styles not needing some elaborate HRT protocol like people have been brained washed into thinking. Again each scenerio is different and unique.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    I am looking into getting the Nutra Eval kit from Genova, however I may not be able to afford the full kit if I can't get it for free. I may be able to afford the FACT kit which tests allergies and intoleranes.

    Interestingly, on another forum a PT suggested I dropped all grain products and all fruit from my diet to balance my blood sugar and allow the adrenals some breathing room. I was having a large bowl of muesli, whey and berries for breakfast and now am having scrambled eggs and bacon. I have had much more constant energy in work feel better in general.

    It is making me wonder whether I may have a gluten intolerance, as i have read that can impact on the digestion of nutrients and contibute towards lower hormone levels and energy in general, as well as giving the body a constant source of inflammation to deal withl.

    same Ive got gluten free too, or 90% gluten free
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by BlackCoffee View Post
    same Ive got gluten free too, or 90% gluten free
    Many people finding out rebalancing the GI tract, neurological, immune and other endocrine systems results in them not needing HRT..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  4. Matrix what is your take on T3 only therapy to correct high RT3? I am going to have RT3 tested but my hypothyroid symptoms with a normal Thyroid panel in conjunction with the issues starting when overtraining and intermittent fasting would seem to fit the diagnosis.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    Matrix what is your take on T3 only therapy to correct high RT3? I am going to have RT3 tested but my hypothyroid symptoms with a normal Thyroid panel in conjunction with the issues starting when overtraining and intermittent fasting would seem to fit the diagnosis.
    I no longer recommed t3 only unless last resort. Maxium 5-10 mcgs 2-3 times a day. I have too many people who had adverse reactions from this since it is a just a response to any Traumatic stress to the person. Look for the source of the stress do not treat the rt3 as the cause.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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  6. Am I right in thinking though if the cause was chronic overtraining / dieting and the subsequent starvation response, and I stopped all that 4 months ago, that it should have cleared on its own by now if it was going to?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    Am I right in thinking though if the cause was chronic overtraining / dieting and the subsequent starvation response, and I stopped all that 4 months ago, that it should have cleared on its own by now if it was going to?
    This lead your body into a vulnerable state for alot of things to trigger HPTA dysfunction..Same thing happen to me.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  8. have had some more blood results back and my progesterone is on the low side, supporting the theory of preg-steal. Can't get preg itself tested over here unfortunately.

    Progesterone: 2nmol/l (1.2 - 5.3)
    Ab to Thyroid peroxidase 4 IU/ML (0-80)
    Ab to Thyroglobulin 9 IU/ML (0-80)
    Vitamin B12 1234 ng/L (211-911)

    Also, if my DHEA is high but my androstendione is low, despite adequate amounts of LH, why could this be? Can DHEA convert back to cortisol somehow instead?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    have had some more blood results back and my progesterone is on the low side, supporting the theory of preg-steal. Can't get preg itself tested over here unfortunately.

    Progesterone: 2nmol/l (1.2 - 5.3)
    Ab to Thyroid peroxidase 4 IU/ML (0-80)
    Ab to Thyroglobulin 9 IU/ML (0-80)
    Vitamin B12 1234 ng/L (211-911)

    Also, if my DHEA is high but my androstendione is low, despite adequate amounts of LH, why could this be? Can DHEA convert back to cortisol somehow instead?
    Rebalance the thyroid, Indirectly by healing the GI and liver ---> immune sytem ----> adrneals -----> hormones and thyroid..
    DHEA is high due to your body in a resistant phase dealing with some kind of stressor on the immune system. Over time it will drop unless the underlying cause NOT HORMONES are dealt with properly. Something is preventing it to convert enzymatically into the proper pathways.
    DHEA can also be high in anxiety related conditions, insulin resistance, immune imbalances which all is coming from an underlying stress to the body from some where.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  10. Had some new blood labs back and the Pregnenolone I have been taking seems to be slowly increasing Testosterone and morning cortisol

    Free Testosterone .274 nmol/l (0.02 - 0.67NMOL/L)
    Albumin 53g/L (35 - 50g/l)
    SHBG 30nmol/l (13 - 71)
    Total Testosterone 14.3 nmol/l (8.50 - 29.0)
    Prolactin 238 miu/L (0-350)
    FT4 19.4 pmol/l (8 - 21pmol/l)
    FT3 4.8pmol/l (2.50 - 6.50pmol/l)
    RT3 0.46 pmol/ml (0.14 - 0.54)
    TSH 1.74 mu/L (0.4 - 4.5)
    E2 69pmol/l
    AM cortisol 533nmol/l
    CRP <1mg/l (0-10)
    Fasting glucose 4.1nmol/l (3-6)
    Ferritin 203 ug/L (30 - 330)
    B12 1234 ng/L (211 - 911)
    T Peroxidase 4 IU/ML (0-80)
    Ab Thyroiglobulin 9 IU/ML (0-80)



    which as a Rt3 ratio to my FT3 is 10 when ideally it should be 20 or more right?

    Have added in 400mcg of Selenium per day and will see if this in conjunction with the Pregnenolone lowers it and continues to bring my average temperature up over the next 2-3 weeks. (Current average temp 36.3C)

    If not then I will be starting a T3 + Preg protocol.

    B12 and Ferritin seem OK.

    Anyone got any comments on those bloods or the course of action?

    Thanks

  11. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    Had some new blood labs back and the Pregnenolone I have been taking seems to be slowly increasing Testosterone and morning cortisol

    Free Testosterone .274 nmol/l (0.02 - 0.67NMOL/L)
    Albumin 53g/L (35 - 50g/l)
    SHBG 30nmol/l (13 - 71)
    Total Testosterone 14.3 nmol/l (8.50 - 29.0)
    Prolactin 238 miu/L (0-350)
    FT4 19.4 pmol/l (8 - 21pmol/l)
    FT3 4.8pmol/l (2.50 - 6.50pmol/l)
    RT3 0.46 pmol/ml (0.14 - 0.54)
    TSH 1.74 mu/L (0.4 - 4.5)
    E2 69pmol/l
    AM cortisol 533nmol/l
    CRP <1mg/l (0-10)
    Fasting glucose 4.1nmol/l (3-6)
    Ferritin 203 ug/L (30 - 330)
    B12 1234 ng/L (211 - 911)
    T Peroxidase 4 IU/ML (0-80)
    Ab Thyroiglobulin 9 IU/ML (0-80)



    which as a Rt3 ratio to my FT3 is 10 when ideally it should be 20 or more right?

    Have added in 400mcg of Selenium per day and will see if this in conjunction with the Pregnenolone lowers it and continues to bring my average temperature up over the next 2-3 weeks. (Current average temp 36.3C)

    If not then I will be starting a T3 + Preg protocol.

    B12 and Ferritin seem OK.

    Anyone got any comments on those bloods or the course of action?

    Thanks
    Cortisol serum is not an accurate reading for what preg is really down. Too many variables can effect it. You fart too hard 5 minutes before the test it can be altered. Now doing a 4 point saliva test and seeing changes then would be a better representation of what is going on with out other variables interfering.
    Rt/ft3 ratio is like any other test its a bunch of numbers which means nothing if symptoms are not present.
    Do not get fixated by the number game. I have had people with rt3/t3 ratios <10 who had no symptoms of fatigue what so ever and felt fine.

    One can increase testosterone 50% by working on proper sleep hygiene
    Using t3 only would be foolish till you need to find out why you have a conversion problem in the first place.
    High albumin you body is trying to unload something (toxins or some kind of heavy metals most likely)
    I have dealt with enough of these cases in past to know t3 only would be a foolish move resulting in potential imbalances in other systems

    Despite what chillin said there are always exception to the rules and as noted numerous times before messing with hormones and thyroid is just a bandaid effect to potentially deeper issue. As many of the guys from there are seeing, I have been right all along despite what people may think in majority of cases. I would not be working with other medical professionals if they thought I was a crack pot
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  12. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    Agreed with Matrix.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
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  13. I do agree with the theory of trying to get to the bottom of it but at the minute I can't afford the Nutra Eval - I am saving though.

    As ever your info is useful- the Albumin, could that be high if I had too high levels of Zinc?

    I had been taking 65mg Zinc pincolinate per day since being diagnosed with Low T back in July, but discontinued about a month ago when someone suggested that it can suppress cortisol levels and may be stopping my adrenals from recovering.

    I started the pregnenolone around the same time and have noticed less fatigue although the rest of the symptoms ie. eyesight and libido have not resolved.

    Given I was taking in no copper I am wondering whether I could have given myself too high Zinc and too low copper which could also affect the thyroid?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    I am looking into getting the Nutra Eval kit from Genova, however I may not be able to afford the full kit if I can't get it for free. I may be able to afford the FACT kit which tests allergies and intoleranes.

    Interestingly, on another forum a PT suggested I dropped all grain products and all fruit from my diet to balance my blood sugar and allow the adrenals some breathing room. I was having a large bowl of muesli, whey and berries for breakfast and now am having scrambled eggs and bacon. I have had much more constant energy in work feel better in general.

    It is making me wonder whether I may have a gluten intolerance, as i have read that can impact on the digestion of nutrients and contibute towards lower hormone levels and energy in general, as well as giving the body a constant source of inflammation to deal withl.
    Amazing, You do not need to be preaching to the choir, I have been saying it all along on ATM for 5 YEARS, Fix the gut, liver and immune system fixes the adrenals as well as the whole hormone cascade in some cases even the thyroid. They are stuck in their mind set. People on HC are just causing more issues they will learn the hard way as I did following the bandwagon. I'm off HC. Was on thyroid for 6 years 3 grains max now I am off !! HMMMMM What that tell you. Makes you wonder how many other people really need thyroid meds in the first place. .Eventually people will see the light as many are finding out I have been right all along. For as many guys start HRT, some are starting to come off because they are learning there is much more to it then meets the eye to why they need in the first place. Its a good stop gap I agree, but in many young guys <30-35 its a bandaid affect

    STRESS---> inflamation-----> immune system -----> adrenals and neuorotransmitters----> thyroid and sex hormone. There are also combination of this, look at
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  15. I agree with youx and I have no desirto start on TRT, but the nutra Eval is out of my price range for now so I am trying to. work with the tests I have had so far.

    Your theory on heavy metals could make sense with my high zinc intake until recently I will get zinc and coper tested -have already had lead, mercury done.

    Given that the eyes are affected by zinc I wonder if. that could explain the eye dryness and black floaters I have.

    Thanks for the advice as ever and yes in an ideal world I would have the nutra Eval done tomorrow!

  16. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    I agree with youx and I have no desirto start on TRT, but the nutra Eval is out of my price range for now so I am trying to. work with the tests I have had so far.

    Your theory on heavy metals could make sense with my high zinc intake until recently I will get zinc and coper tested -have already had lead, mercury done.

    Given that the eyes are affected by zinc I wonder if. that could explain the eye dryness and black floaters I have.

    Thanks for the advice as ever and yes in an ideal world I would have the nutra Eval done tomorrow!
    Then you work around it which can be done using common sense and knowing the complex network of metabolic and enzymatic pathways as well as to manipulate them. I am thinking methylation issues since you are a brit which majority of them have in the first place due to angelo -saxon back ground. This would explain your body may not have the ablity to unload heavy metal or toxins which can cause a whole host of problem in it self. Eye dryness is most likely EFA deficiency which can be cause from body not being able to absorbed or convert fats through specific enzymatic pathways. Working with these cases can be a real challenge, but over all there is usually a simple underlying issue which is over looked in majority of them. Keep plugging away..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  17. matrix-what is your opinion on hair mineral analysis? Is it useful or quackery? I cannot afford the 700 for nutra Eval but can afford 50 for hmta. Would this be a a good idea to rule out heavy metals or coppet/zinc imbalances?

  18. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    matrix-what is your opinion on hair mineral analysis? Is it useful or quackery? I cannot afford the 700 for nutra Eval but can afford 50 for hmta. Would this be a a good idea to rule out heavy metals or coppet/zinc imbalances?
    I used it from another bloke and it showed information which was hidden. You need to get it from a good lab one that does not wash the hair other wise it is invalid. If one was not used to reading them his imbalance would have not been found it was hidden. Once making the corrections he had a significant clinical response and is doing fine. IT took him 3 months to feel the changes once made. People have to be patient. Heavy metals can hide showing up low levels and really being high because they are locked in the tissue not being released.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  19. Any suggestions for a UK lab? Genenova don't seem to do it

  20. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    Any suggestions for a UK lab? Genenova don't seem to do it
    I think he did it ARL. Let me check I still might have it. If I can remember his name LOL

    Too answer your question about nutraeval you asked the peanut gallery,
    Do you need it? No. If there is enough data available then proper pathology and imbalances may be identified through detailed analysis and evaluation. Will it help yes to rule out a lot of things taking guessing work out, but is not a necessity. I would probably put that money towards the things which will help you recovery. Its really the skill of the person who is handling your case which is going to determine the finally out come.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  21. I have just e-mailed the spectracell rep as apparently they are now testing in the UK, it should be significantly cheaper hopefully.

    I have no problem spending the money,once saved, as long as I know it is well spent.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    I have just e-mailed the spectracell rep as apparently they are now testing in the UK, it should be significantly cheaper hopefully.

    I have no problem spending the money,once saved, as long as I know it is well spent.
    I do not like spectra cell because does not give functionality.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  23. I will hopefully have enough for the Nutreval by next month, I don't see any other option in the way of testing. If it doesn't show up anything useful then I am at my wits end and will be begining self prescribed TRT.

    My relationship has just ended and my job is hanging by a thread so there has to come a point where I just think sod it and replace what it is missing artificially, as nice as it may be to find the root cause.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    I will hopefully have enough for the Nutreval by next month, I don't see any other option in the way of testing. If it doesn't show up anything useful then I am at my wits end and will be begining self prescribed TRT.

    My relationship has just ended and my job is hanging by a thread so there has to come a point where I just think sod it and replace what it is missing artificially, as nice as it may be to find the root cause.
    It will give more clinical support, but worst case scenerio with good detailed information, and lab reports one can get close to 70-80% with in what nutra eval was going to show. Since the protocols would probably be the same. So again you may want to think about forgoing it saving the money to use for correct imbalance which may be present. Yes, but if you replace it artificially it will make you feel good for a few months. I have seen this scenerio time and time again only to result in back at ground zero 4-6 months later. Do I agree with supporting hormone to make you feel better YES then go back fill things over a 4-6 months period. In your situation here is what I would do. If you go on HRT you may feel better for short haul , but atleast you will have quality of life to function and work. During this time you will be able to implement things to start to back fill hidden issues. Worst case scenerio you go on HRT feel better then crash 4-5 months later, then you are back to square one with 4-5 months wasted ...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  25. But if I'm not sure what I need to buy to support myself or correct the imbalances? The only imbalance I can see in my tests so far is low testosterone, lowish cortisol and high RT3, low body temperature.

    Out of all of the supplements I have tried so far only pregnenolone seems to have had a real tangible benefit.

    I will have the money in a month so I suppose it is worth the investment as I have no other path to go down with Dr's. No Dr in the UK is worth paying to see as non will prescribe TRT at that testosterone level.

    So I suppose I will just look at it as 700 investment in Nutreval ---> if that doesn't work then 40 a month investment in testosterone, HCG and AI.

    I can't thank you enough for your help and advice matrix, you have taken more of an interest than paid NHS employees ever have.
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