LG Sciences 1-ANDROSTENOLONE

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    Quote Originally Posted by lukehayd View Post

    Were is the headache at? Base of the skull, behind the eyes, more in the temples, etc.?
    My headache is a light, but there.
    It's the temple of my head, and a little behind the head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steam View Post

    stop taking anything for a day, or until your headaches leave then -
    take ONE product only...for example, the 1-a only by itself, and see if it gives you the headaches...if its fine, then stop the 1-a and then take the 4ad by itself and see if that gives you the headaches...

    so by process of elimination, between the two, you can deduce which could be the culprit leading to your headaches
    Is it safe to do that?...just stop taking them for a day? Ad then take just 1andro and then 4-AD later in the day?
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    does any LG rep want to give me a little input on my post?

    about my (only) 3.5lbs gains so far?

    i'm very disappointed so far and if things don't improve, won't be recommending this to anyone...
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by steam View Post
    stop taking anything for a day, or until your headaches leave then -
    take ONE product only...for example, the 1-a only by itself, and see if it gives you the headaches...if its fine, then stop the 1-a and then take the 4ad by itself and see if that gives you the headaches...

    so by process of elimination, between the two, you can deduce which could be the culprit leading to your headaches
    Totally agree with you steam on this process of elimination.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucebarrera View Post
    does any LG rep want to give me a little input on my post?

    about my (only) 3.5lbs gains so far?

    i'm very disappointed so far and if things don't improve, won't be recommending this to anyone...
    How much did you increase your calorie intake from baseline to where you are now?
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    It was written in my post: 3500 cal/day

    Before i would eat around 2500-2700 cal/day

    Macros: 50%C - 30%P - 20%F
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucebarrera View Post
    It was written in my post: 3500 cal/day

    Before i would eat around 2500-2700 cal/day

    Macros: 50%C - 30%P - 20%F
    Yeah I saw that part but didn't see your baseline of 2500-2700. It seems that you increased by quite a bit so that shouldn't be an issue of not getting enough. Not sure why you are not gaining with a surplus of almost 1000 cal.

    On the up side, as you said, your lifts have gone up a lot! How can you be totally disappointed with that? I understand the frustration of wanting to gain (believe me- I DO!) but some just don't gain as much as others nearly as easily if at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastFitness1 View Post
    Totally agree with you steam on this process of elimination.
    And once I do this, and find out what one causing the problem.....then what?wouldnt I be wasting money and a cycle?
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    overall I gained a lot of weight...went from 183 to 192 solid body weight BUT my BF % device tells me only 3.5 lbs of lean mass gain...so I've put 5.5 lbs of fat, almost 2 lbs of fat for each of lean mass...

    I don't know if it's my workout routine...i'm basically doing compounds, should I switch to a 4-day split for example?

    I was "dreaming" of having 10-15 lbs of gain in two weeks, but after the first week splurge of 3.5 lbs I got stuck and it seems I won't be able to achieve my goal!
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    Quote Originally Posted by boxcaracer View Post
    And once I do this, and find out what one causing the problem.....then what?wouldnt I be wasting money and a cycle?
    If you're just starting out and you only stop one product for a day or two, you should be alright.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucebarrera View Post
    overall I gained a lot of weight...went from 183 to 192 solid body weight BUT my BF % device tells me only 3.5 lbs of lean mass gain...so I've put 5.5 lbs of fat, almost 2 lbs of fat for each of lean mass...

    I don't know if it's my workout routine...i'm basically doing compounds, should I switch to a 4-day split for example?

    I was "dreaming" of having 10-15 lbs of gain in two weeks, but after the first week splurge of 3.5 lbs I got stuck and it seems I won't be able to achieve my goal!
    If you are using a bioelectrical impedance analysis scale or hand held device to come to this conclusion, it's wrong since those devices are notorious for being inaccurate and subject to variation by so many different factors including hydration level / body water.

    Your expectations of 10-15 lbs of LEAN gain in two weeks is completely out of whack with reality.
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    My expectations were not 10-15 lbs in 2 weeks, but in one cycle of 4-6 weeks like someone from here who used the product affirmed to have gained.

    I can't see that gain coming since i'm on the mid of my 3rd week and still stuck at 3.5 lbs of gain. Can't imagine gaining another 10 lbs in another 3 weeks only.

    And about the device, I use a handheld which was always pretty close to the caliper measurement and always measure at the same time upon waking. Even if the measurement is off, what matters to me is the difference of the before and the now, and that's 3.5 lbs of lean mass.
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    how bout appearance? can you tell you look any different? leaner? harder? bulkier?
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    Quote Originally Posted by boxcaracer View Post
    Is it safe to do that?...just stop taking them for a day? Ad then take just 1andro and then 4-AD later in the day?
    of course!

    but you understand what i am saying right? when you stack 20 supps and get the ****s, you don't know which product is giving you the runs, what do you do? you scale back and by process of elimination, find out which exact product is screwing with you..

    similarly in your case, discontinue one, see if headache persists...then the other

    its elementary
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucebarrera View Post
    overall I gained a lot of weight...went from 183 to 192 solid body weight BUT my BF % device tells me only 3.5 lbs of lean mass gain...so I've put 5.5 lbs of fat, almost 2 lbs of fat for each of lean mass...

    I don't know if it's my workout routine...i'm basically doing compounds, should I switch to a 4-day split for example?

    I was "dreaming" of having 10-15 lbs of gain in two weeks, but after the first week splurge of 3.5 lbs I got stuck and it seems I won't be able to achieve my goal!
    hence, as you correctly worded, "dreaming" ...its hard to put that much weight on even if you were on pure TEST...

    why do people gauge putting on weight the fastest way possible as a definitive measure of the efficacy of a product?
    maintenance and having the physiological endurance to support any weight/muscle gain off a cycle should instead be the utmost concern

    i'm sorry but if you laid out your current improvements in weight, on your body and in the gym, then proceed to explain how the product sucks, either your assinine or you have a serious misconception of ANY ph or steroid cycle; and your penchant for instant gratification is on gross overdrive

    imho your results thus far have been above exemplary and if conveyed to any prudent gymrat, would likely concur
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    Steam I agree with you, and indeed my gains in terms of weights were amazing.

    I'm disappointed because I expected to achieve the same results described here by the member "BeastFitness1" when he said he could get 10lbs of one cycle.

    I had some good lean mass gain and also I gained a lot of fat, and that imo I could get just by doing the diet i'm doing alone without the product.

    The weight gains I don't know, I'll know when I'm off cycle and be able to tell if they did persist.

    That's where I am disappointed, please don't get me wrong. Hope I explained myself.

    Answering another questions, my muscles feel fuller and harder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucebarrera View Post
    Steam I agree with you, and indeed my gains in terms of weights were amazing.

    I'm disappointed because I expected to achieve the same results described here by the member "BeastFitness1" when he said he could get 10lbs of one cycle.

    I had some good lean mass gain and also I gained a lot of fat, and that imo I could get just by doing the diet i'm doing alone without the product.

    The weight gains I don't know, I'll know when I'm off cycle and be able to tell if they did persist.

    That's where I am disappointed, please don't get me wrong. Hope I explained myself.

    Answering another questions, my muscles feel fuller and harder.
    no disrespect, but you're comparing apples and oranges here...
    i mean even if you were twins, you still are two different people

    if beast put on 10lbs, how can you know what those 10lbs are? perhaps two of those are water weight, maybe another third is fat?...we'll never know...any scientific measurement performed by him or you is still at most "best effort", and hence should be regarded as such..
    was his a 6wk cycle? the other thing is, if your diet is on point past cycle into pct, people usually continue to make mass and strength gains, hence imo its too early for you to be fretting atm

    something which you might have also missed...his stat says 5'7, your 6'2...a full 5inch differential pretty much tells me, all things being equal, it'll be easier for him to gain than you

    anyway seriously though, the tone of your posts sounds like complaints but their actual content are compliments, lol
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    ok, i see your point, i'll just wait till the end of the cycle.

    the height difference makes sense, i didnt think of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukehayd View Post

    If you're just starting out and you only stop one product for a day or two, you should be alright.
    What's the point of the eliminating what ones causing the problem, because if I find out which one it is, it would hurt my cycle and I would of wasted money.

    Also, I'll be checking my BP again today, but if it's not rising, what should I do about the headaches?

    Also, what's causing it?...meaning about the PH...do they thin the blood? Increase blood flow, etc?....if they thinned my blood wouldn't it flow easier and no cause headaches.

    I get headaches from time to time, but not like this constant...flutter of pain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boxcaracer View Post
    What's the point of the eliminating what ones causing the problem, because if I find out which one it is, it would hurt my cycle and I would of wasted money.

    Also, I'll be checking my BP again today, but if it's not rising, what should I do about the headaches?

    Also, what's causing it?...meaning about the PH...do they thin the blood? Increase blood flow, etc?....if they thinned my blood wouldn't it flow easier and no cause headaches.

    I get headaches from time to time, but not like this constant...flutter of pain.
    Yes, if you do eliminate one of them, the money you spent on that one would be "wasted." If you think of it this way though, what is more important to you, your money or your health? There is also the supplement auction sub-forum where you could trade or sell. Let take a look at some things and I'll get back.
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    well I got my package in the mail today....I ripped into the box and took my first doses of the 1-andro, M1D and the extra supps that came with the package from Nutra.

    so we'll see what happens

    i always tend to weigh myself when i get to the gym and Im at 172 with everything on
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    Quote Originally Posted by boxcaracer View Post
    What's the point of the eliminating what ones causing the problem, because if I find out which one it is, it would hurt my cycle and I would of wasted money.

    Also, I'll be checking my BP again today, but if it's not rising, what should I do about the headaches?

    Also, what's causing it?...meaning about the PH...do they thin the blood? Increase blood flow, etc?....if they thinned my blood wouldn't it flow easier and no cause headaches.

    I get headaches from time to time, but not like this constant...flutter of pain.
    If I remember correct, you are using the AMS 4-AD Rde right? I'm not seeing anything in that that should be causing your headaches unless you are having a mild allergic reaction to one of the ingredients in one of the products. With your BP being what it is, I'm not thinking that it is related to that, I am leaning more to a reaction to one (or a combination of more) of the compounds or ingredients in the delivery systems of either of the products.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucebarrera View Post
    My expectations were not 10-15 lbs in 2 weeks, but in one cycle of 4-6 weeks like someone from here who used the product affirmed to have gained.

    I can't see that gain coming since i'm on the mid of my 3rd week and still stuck at 3.5 lbs of gain. Can't imagine gaining another 10 lbs in another 3 weeks only.

    And about the device, I use a handheld which was always pretty close to the caliper measurement and always measure at the same time upon waking. Even if the measurement is off, what matters to me is the difference of the before and the now, and that's 3.5 lbs of lean mass.
    These results could be achieved without supps hard workout and good food.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukehayd View Post

    If I remember correct, you are using the AMS 4-AD Rde right? I'm not seeing anything in that that should be causing your headaches unless you are having a mild allergic reaction to one of the ingredients in one of the products. With your BP being what it is, I'm not thinking that it is related to that, I am leaning more to a reaction to one (or a combination of more) of the compounds or ingredients in the delivery systems of either of the products.
    Thanks man.
    My headache are getting more mild, but they are still there....they don't keep me from doing things or working out though. I go for a week before I see what's causing it, just because it's getting more mild.... And drinking water really helps with the severity of the headache.
    And yes it's the AMS 4-AD.

    Today I had a bitch of a back pump though....my lower back was really big....
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    Quote Originally Posted by boxcaracer View Post
    Thanks man.
    My headache are getting more mild, but they are still there....they don't keep me from doing things or working out though. I go for a week before I see what's causing it, just because it's getting more mild.... And drinking water really helps with the severity of the headache.
    And yes it's the AMS 4-AD.

    Today I had a bitch of a back pump though....my lower back was really big....
    How much water are you drinking per day? That could also be the culprit. While on any PH, water consumption needs to increase.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukehayd View Post

    How much water are you drinking per day? That could also be the culprit. While on any PH, water consumption needs to increase.
    I am starting to think it my diet.
    I've been adding in oats and more milk....and my diet is normal no oats, and small amounts of milk.....I might be slightly allergic to oats or something....milk is like crack cocaine to me, so it's not chasing my headaches.

    I don't know the exact amount, but I carry a water bottle with me and drink it constantly, and drink like a camel when I workout. (do camels drink a lot?)
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    @ brucebarrera:

    you gained 3.5 lbs of lean mass in 3 weeks? thats alot considering most guys dont gain that in the coarse of a yr.

    you got stronger too? look buddy, for a 2 step PH you are doing good. if you want bigger gains from the product you will likely need to increase the dosage as well as amount of times you dose per day.

    at 6-2 you could prolly eat 5k per day and switch it around a bit to hit a more protien everyday and increase the healthy fats as well upto 10g of fish oils per day!

    also change your split to goto the gym 5 days per week mon-fri and just relax on the weekend.

    if this is your first run at PHs you will find, even with methylated DSs and AAS you typically dont know what to expect OR do. you will get better at cycleing each time you do one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xR1pp3Rx View Post
    @ brucebarrera:

    you gained 3.5 lbs of lean mass in 3 weeks? thats alot considering most guys dont gain that in the coarse of a yr.

    you got stronger too? look buddy, for a 2 step PH you are doing good. if you want bigger gains from the product you will likely need to increase the dosage as well as amount of times you dose per day.

    at 6-2 you could prolly eat 5k per day and switch it around a bit to hit a more protien everyday and increase the healthy fats as well upto 10g of fish oils per day!

    also change your split to goto the gym 5 days per week mon-fri and just relax on the weekend.

    if this is your first run at PHs you will find, even with methylated DSs and AAS you typically dont know what to expect OR do. you will get better at cycleing each time you do one.
    yeah, those are some pretty good gains. i'm happy if i can put on 10lbs in a year (without ph's, of course). my friend is on the 17-pro and said its just now starting to kick in around week 2.5, so just give it some time.
    Last edited by bill86; 04-12-2013 at 01:23 PM. Reason: g4q
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    Quote Originally Posted by xR1pp3Rx View Post
    @ brucebarrera:

    you gained 3.5 lbs of lean mass in 3 weeks? thats alot considering most guys dont gain that in the coarse of a yr.

    you got stronger too? look buddy, for a 2 step PH you are doing good. if you want bigger gains from the product you will likely need to increase the dosage as well as amount of times you dose per day.

    at 6-2 you could prolly eat 5k per day and switch it around a bit to hit a more protien everyday and increase the healthy fats as well upto 10g of fish oils per day!

    also change your split to goto the gym 5 days per week mon-fri and just relax on the weekend.

    if this is your first run at PHs you will find, even with methylated DSs and AAS you typically dont know what to expect OR do. you will get better at cycleing each time you do one.
    thanks for the reply xR1pp3Rx!

    my concern was that 3.5lbs came associated with a lot of fat, so my question is wouldn't be able to get that result without the ph?

    and really 5k cal a day? I would become a freaking fat ass that way!!!

    to how much should i increase the dosage? i thought about it, maybe doing an extra dose of 2ml for the M-1D and 3ml for 1-Andro? I'm following the label, but maybe that's too low for a guy my size (6'2", 192lbs)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironguru View Post
    These results could be achieved without supps hard workout and good food.
    Which results? the 10lbs in 6 weeks or the 3.5lbs in 3 weeks?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukehayd View Post
    Yes, if you do eliminate one of them, the money you spent on that one would be "wasted." If you think of it this way though, what is more important to you, your money or your health? There is also the supplement auction sub-forum where you could trade or sell. Let take a look at some things and I'll get back.
    So true Luke my health is way more important than 40-50$ or whatever the cost. I had a similar problem and what I did was sold it to a buddy off me at the gym he had no issues with that particular product and I no longer have headaches so any way that's my little story.
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    if i take my first dose of both at 7am....im taking my second of the 1ad at 4ish and the 3rd 1ad/second M1d at 10ish....sound good?
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    this in 3 weeks

    I gained around 3.5lbs of lean mass...and around 2.5% of body fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironguru View Post
    this in 3 weeks

    I gained around 3.5lbs of lean mass...and around 2.5% of body fat.
    That's awesome bro what LG products you using right now?
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    Beast, he was replying to me showing what can be done without sups...

    And I don't think this is awesome...
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucebarrera View Post
    Beast, he was replying to me showing what can be done without sups...

    And I don't think this is awesome...
    Well I guess I missed that part well just remember everybody is diff. And his gains are his gains you just need to focus in what works for you supps or no supps. That feeling when you get that right is AWESOME. This is about you not everybody else.
    LG Sciences Rep
    Nothing I say constitutes medical advise. Please check with your medical professional before starting any diet or exercise program.
  37. Registered User
    bill86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucebarrera View Post
    Beast, he was replying to me showing what can be done without sups...

    And I don't think this is awesome...
    how old are you and what are your genetics like? at 6'2 182, it seems like you probably have bad genetics, which i know A LOT about (probably more than most people on this forum, haha). i can gain weight if i eat a ton, but a LOT of it is fat (even when eating clean), and i can lose weight when doing cardio, but a LOT of it is muscle (even when doing cardio/dieting the 'right' way).

    like he said, everyone is different. i ask your age/experience, because after a while, you just realize what you personally can achieve. i know people that can gain insane amounts of strength and lean body mass by just over training, not doing cardio, and eating 3 meals of fast food a day (while maintaining a 6 pack) whereas people like me can eat 5-6 meals, clean, count calories, do specific weightlifting/cardio routines, and not gain nearly as much/can't get rid of the 'soft' look.

    you've gotta take into account genetics along with what you're using. i have no experience with ph's, but this stuff is mild. if you have crappy genetics, a mild ph isn't going to give you crazy gains. i mean, i've seen people put on over 20 lbs lbm in 4 weeks on some crazy stuff, but to me, that's not worth risking my health. i think you've just got to realize that in the world of working out, life isn't fair haha. also, when you see people making the crazy gains that you seem to want, realize they're most likely on some pretty heavy stuff, and also probably have some pretty decent genetics.

    not everyone can do it... myself included
  38. Registered User
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    What is good test boosters to run PCT?
    I will be running form-XT and DAA....but what's another test booster to stack?
    Maybe a-hd? Or animal stak? Etc
  39. Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill86 View Post
    how old are you and what are your genetics like? at 6'2 182, it seems like you probably have bad genetics, which i know A LOT about (probably more than most people on this forum, haha). i can gain weight if i eat a ton, but a LOT of it is fat (even when eating clean), and i can lose weight when doing cardio, but a LOT of it is muscle (even when doing cardio/dieting the 'right' way).

    like he said, everyone is different. i ask your age/experience, because after a while, you just realize what you personally can achieve. i know people that can gain insane amounts of strength and lean body mass by just over training, not doing cardio, and eating 3 meals of fast food a day (while maintaining a 6 pack) whereas people like me can eat 5-6 meals, clean, count calories, do specific weightlifting/cardio routines, and not gain nearly as much/can't get rid of the 'soft' look.

    you've gotta take into account genetics along with what you're using. i have no experience with ph's, but this stuff is mild. if you have crappy genetics, a mild ph isn't going to give you crazy gains. i mean, i've seen people put on over 20 lbs lbm in 4 weeks on some crazy stuff, but to me, that's not worth risking my health. i think you've just got to realize that in the world of working out, life isn't fair haha. also, when you see people making the crazy gains that you seem to want, realize they're most likely on some pretty heavy stuff, and also probably have some pretty decent genetics.

    not everyone can do it... myself included
    I'm 34 years old.
  40. Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by boxcaracer View Post
    What is good test boosters to run PCT?
    I will be running form-XT and DAA....but what's another test booster to stack?
    Maybe a-hd? Or animal stak? Etc
    I can't speak for either of those from personal experience. I haven't heard good things about the A-HD though. I won't get into that. Ones that I have tried that I liked were Prime, Titanium, T-911 caps (never used the liquid) and PCT Revolution Black to name a few. I really like the PCT Revolution Black but would not run that along side the Form-XT as it would dry you out way too much.
    "But as for you, be strong and do not give up, for your work will be rewarded."
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