[domore]

You won't be able to ignore the effects on serum glucose levels, but the dosages aren't to the point where it's going to be powerful enough to induce hypoglycemia, which is nice... but, for health benefits, you'd want 2 capsules/day. Pre-WO would be one of those times to take advantage of certain formulaic properties. One capsule, 15-20 minutes before a meal/snack/shake with about 25-35g of carbohydrates would be perfect.

Timing of the second dose will generally depend on diet and how we do with the pre-bed testing, which the reps will be doing when they receive their bottles.

I really appreciate the input. Developed answers are only one reason why Genomyx has so many fanatyx.

How about pre-workout dose with GlycoMyx and Protocol? I think I like the sound of that.

Would the pre-bed dose have a similar effect as V1?

[John33]

Would the pre-bed dose have a similar effect as V1?

Was not aware of this protocol. Do people take V1 pre-bed without carbs? If yes, what is the purpose of that? Thanks.

[domore]

Was not aware of this protocol. Do people take V1 pre-bed without carbs? If yes, what is the purpose of that? Thanks.

The OG version taken pre-bed supposedly promotes a deeper and quality sleep and better recovery. Theoretically, it is supposed to promote a faster path to GH release (although minimal).

[John33]

The OG version taken pre-bed supposedly promotes a deeper and quality sleep and better recovery. Theoretically, it is supposed to promote a faster path to GH release (although minimal).

Interesting. Can it be taken pre-bed without carbs?

[uvawahoowa]

You won't be able to ignore the effects on serum glucose levels, but the dosages aren't to the point where it's going to be powerful enough to induce hypoglycemia, which is nice... but, for health benefits, you'd want 2 capsules/day. Pre-WO would be one of those times to take advantage of certain formulaic properties. One capsule, 15-20 minutes before a meal/snack/shake with about 25-35g of carbohydrates would be perfect.

Timing of the second dose will generally depend on diet and how we do with the pre-bed testing, which the reps will be doing when they receive their bottles.

So is this less powerful than v1 as the OG was recommended with 60-100g carbs?

[domore]

Interesting. Can it be taken pre-bed without carbs?

Yes, you can take it without carbs.

[John33]

Yes, you can take it without carbs.

As you have mentioned above, it says on the bottle to take it with 60-100 grams of carbs, so I always assumed that taking it with less carbs would be dangerous. The blood sugar can go too low, etc.

[domore]

As you have mentioned above, it says on the bottle to take it with 60-100 grams of carbs, so I always assumed that taking it with less carbs would be dangerous. The blood sugar can go too low, etc.

To quote Smitty from another forum: "When you consider the benefits of a before-bed dosing, it's serving a similar function in the absence of macronutrients by depleting serum glucose levels while still signaling the pancreas to halt insulin production."

I don't know the exact reasoning/chemistry as to why you can take it pre-bed without going hypo, so maybe Smitty can answer that.

[John33]

To quote Smitty from another forum: "When you consider the benefits of a before-bed dosing, it's serving a similar function in the absence of macronutrients by depleting serum glucose levels while still signaling the pancreas to halt insulin production."

I am not sure I understand what it means. Why would pancreas produce insulin if I have not eaten carbs or anything else pre-bed?

I don't know the exact reasoning/chemistry as to why you can take it pre-bed without going hypo, so maybe Smitty can answer that.

Yes, it would be nice if he could elaborate on that.

[Smitty77]

I really appreciate the input. Developed answers are only one reason why Genomyx has so many fanatyx.

How about pre-workout dose with GlycoMyx and Protocol? I think I like the sound of that.

Would the pre-bed dose have a similar effect as V1?

That would be fine, actually... Take the Protocol about an hour before; SSv2 40 mins. before, GlycoMyx 20 mins. before... I'm assuming that GlycoMyx is the same formula as when we manufactured it, and if so, it should provide the necessary carbohydrates without bloating/filling you up.

So is this less powerful than v1 as the OG was recommended with 60-100g carbs?

It is not; in all actuality, it's more powerful as 3 ingredients (Na-R-ALA, banaba, jiaogulan) all have antidiabetic effects. The recommendation on the label is fleeting and subjective, really.

Personally, I've always used a GDA (especially pre-WO) with a lesser amount of CHO to great effect.

One of our testers, too, reported an unbelievable effect with 2 capsules/120g CHO... fuller muscles, phenomenal vascularity.

As you have mentioned above, it says on the bottle to take it with 60-100 grams of carbs, so I always assumed that taking it with less carbs would be dangerous. The blood sugar can go too low, etc.

That's a falsity... Otherwise, people who fast would drop into hypoglycemic comas. Glucagon will stabilize glucose levels if they fall too low.

I am not sure I understand what it means. Why would pancreas produce insulin if I have not eaten carbs or anything else pre-bed?

Yes, it would be nice if he could elaborate on that.

It wouldn't... The body will stabilize itself. Simply put, if you eat something, anything, your serum glucose levels elevate signaling the pancreas to release insulin to help regulate blood sugar. This process of translocation takes time; GDAs hasten the process. The pancreas is tricked into not releasing what it would consider an adequate amount of insulin, and the body then follows a natural process with the insulinomimetic acting as catalyst, GLUT 4, etc. This is why diabetics report such beneficial results using these products without having to inject.

I feel like I'm not explaining that right, so please let me know if I need to clarify further.

[domore]

That would be fine, actually... Take the Protocol about an hour before; SSv2 40 mins. before, GlycoMyx 20 mins. before... I'm assuming that GlycoMyx is the same formula as when we manufactured it, and if so, it should provide the necessary carbohydrates without bloating/filling you up.

Great to hear. I'm going to do that when SSv2 hits e-tailers.

[chedapalooza]

Can chronic (year plus) use of gda products cause (theoretically) diabetes or permanent pancreatic ailments? Or an inability to produce/facilitate insulin, assimilate carbs, etc ?

[mr.cooper69]

Can chronic (year plus) use of gda products cause (theoretically) diabetes or permanent pancreatic ailments? Or an inability to produce/facilitate insulin, assimilate carbs, etc ?

Not even close; the opposite may in fact be true.

[chedapalooza]

Not even close; the opposite may in fact be true.

Well, good

[John33]

I feel like I'm not explaining that right, so please let me know if I need to clarify further.

I think you are doing a great job, but here is what I got out of this thread thus far.

SSv1 or SSv2 can be used with or without carbs. When used with carbs, either version helps "fuel" the muscles while minimizing possible negative side effects of carbs, but how it works and how many carbs are needed is not clear to me. Some ingredients in the formula block absorption of carbs, while others make the body think that it releases insulin to dispose of glucose when no real insulin was released, which increases insulin sensitivity, or something like that, but it just sounds confusing to me, which begs the following question:

Why create the problem (consume carbs) and then try to minimize their effect on the body (take SSv1 or SSv2)? I mean, that is what it says on the SSv1 bottle - take carbs and then take one serving of SS. I am sorry, I am sure I am missing something here, but I do not get it.

Both versions are useful for general health purposes. When used without carbs or on a low carb diet, either version can be used without fear of hypoglycemia, but for other than general health purpose, I am not sure I understand why it is beneficial to use SSv1 or SSv2 without carbs.

Thanks.

[Smitty77]

I think you are doing a great job, but here is what I got out of this thread thus far.

SSv1 or SSv2 can be used with or without carbs. When used with carbs, either version helps "fuel" the muscles while minimizing possible negative side effects of carbs, but how it works and how many carbs are needed is not clear to me. Some ingredients in the formula block absorption of carbs, while others make the body think that it releases insulin to dispose of glucose when no real insulin was released, which increases insulin sensitivity, or something like that, but it just sounds confusing to me, which begs the following question:

Why create the problem (consume carbs) and then try to minimize their effect on the body (take SSv1 or SSv2)? I mean, that is what it says on the SSv1 bottle - take carbs and then take one serving of SS. I am sorry, I am sure I am missing something here, but I do not get it.

Both versions are useful for general health purposes. When used without carbs or on a low carb diet, either version can be used without fear of hypoglycemia, but for other than general health purpose, I am not sure I understand why it is beneficial to use SSv1 or SSv2 without carbs.

Thanks.

The easiest way to put this is to say that insulin may very well be the most important hormone produced by the body. Glucose that settles in the blood can be toxic, which is why diabetics have to inject exogenous insulin to move that glucose through the bloodstream... Now, when serum glucose is expelled, the body will then turn to stored sugars for energy. This is important in terms of metabolism... And that's just one physiological effect.

Now, the how it works is that it some ingredients mimic insulin, some block absorption of carbohydrates, some (gymnema, for example) actually decreases cravings for sugar... Different formulas will offer different properties; some may offer all of the above, some may simply target one such action... How many carbohydrates you need to take is something I can't answer for you; it's subjective. Different users will respond differently to different carbohydrate amounts. For example, I prefer to use GDAs with a lower amount, others with a moderate amount, and some use a couple of capsules before cheat meals.

The reasons for taking a capsule prior to carbohydrates are numerous... I, for one, am sensitive to carbs. I eat pancakes and want to take a nap. I eat ice cream and I feel like sh't; lethargic, temperamental, etc. Using a GDA prevents this from happening, amazingly enough. Thing is, that carbohydrates are essential for a balanced diet and that's directly related to insulin, serum glucose, glycogen, glucagon, insulion sensitivity (to prevent metabolic syndrome), etc.

So, it's not necessarily a matter of creating a problem and minimizing the effect, but rather utilizing the carbohydrates efficiently... so, there is no problem to speak of in the first place.

Using either without carbs should only be done at certain times... I'll sometimes suggest a fasted pre-WO dose to optimize GH release, which occurs during exercise, and to also improve insulin sensitivity so that post-WO meal is soaked up rapidly. The pre-bed fasted dose, which also improves insulin sensitivity, will also optimize GH release during sleep (though don't expect body composition changes; one would need to be consistent with this dosing over a long period of time - even then it's not at all comparable to peptide use)... and another nice little perk we noticed is that it enhances sleep quality.

So, long story short... think of how important insulin is and all that it does; that's what GDAs do. It just so happens that they're very versatile in that they're side effect-free, and can be used in a number of different ways. And remember, when thinking of using an insulinomimetic without carbohydrates, that insulin has benefits and actions aside from simply disposing of blood glucose.

[mr.cooper69]

The easiest way to put this is to say that insulin may very well be the most important hormone produced by the body. Glucose that settles in the blood can be toxic, which is why diabetics have to inject exogenous insulin to move that glucose through the bloodstream... Now, when serum glucose is expelled, the body will then turn to stored sugars for energy. This is important in terms of metabolism... And that's just one physiological effect.

Now, the how it works is that it some ingredients mimic insulin, some block absorption of carbohydrates, some (gymnema, for example) actually decreases cravings for sugar... Different formulas will offer different properties; some may offer all of the above, some may simply target one such action... How many carbohydrates you need to take is something I can't answer for you; it's subjective. Different users will respond differently to different carbohydrate amounts. For example, I prefer to use GDAs with a lower amount, others with a moderate amount, and some use a couple of capsules before cheat meals.

The reasons for taking a capsule prior to carbohydrates are numerous... I, for one, am sensitive to carbs. I eat pancakes and want to take a nap. I eat ice cream and I feel like sh't; lethargic, temperamental, etc. Using a GDA prevents this from happening, amazingly enough. Thing is, that carbohydrates are essential for a balanced diet and that's directly related to insulin, serum glucose, glycogen, glucagon, insulion sensitivity (to prevent metabolic syndrome), etc.

So, it's not necessarily a matter of creating a problem and minimizing the effect, but rather utilizing the carbohydrates efficiently... so, there is no problem to speak of in the first place.

Using either without carbs should only be done at certain times... I'll sometimes suggest a fasted pre-WO dose to optimize GH release, which occurs during exercise, and to also improve insulin sensitivity so that post-WO meal is soaked up rapidly. The pre-bed fasted dose, which also improves insulin sensitivity, will also optimize GH release during sleep (though don't expect body composition changes; one would need to be consistent with this dosing over a long period of time - even then it's not at all comparable to peptide use)... and another nice little perk we noticed is that it enhances sleep quality.

So, long story short... think of how important insulin is and all that it does; that's what GDAs do. It just so happens that they're very versatile in that they're side effect-free, and can be used in a number of different ways. And remember, when thinking of using an insulinomimetic without carbohydrates, that insulin has benefits and actions aside from simply disposing of blood glucose.

Great post, Smitty. Glad to see Genomyx is moving forward so rapidly with these new releases + Decimate. By the way, do you know if the ability of gymnema to reduce is carb cravings is dependent on its ability to mimic glucose on the tongue and oral mucosa? If so, I think we should start advocating the emptying to Slin-sane capsules into a cup of water and drinking up! (I'm only half joking, this would be a pretty cool idea)

[Smitty77]

Great post, Smitty. Glad to see Genomyx is moving forward so rapidly with these new releases + Decimate. By the way, do you know if the ability of gymnema to reduce is carb cravings is dependent on its ability to mimic glucose on the tongue and oral mucosa? If so, I think we should start advocating the emptying to Slin-sane capsules into a cup of water and drinking up! (I'm only half joking, this would be a pretty cool idea)

I'm not all too clear on how it does it, so I can't say with certainty that it mimics glucose or simply desensitizes those receptors. In the case of gurmarin, it may actually have some neural activity... I can't help but wonder if gymnema wages a pretty comprehensive attack on the chemosensors on the tongue and the hypothalamus.

Half-joking or not, think of the immediate effect of it... though I can't imagine it tastes good.

[chedapalooza]

Great post, Smitty. Glad to see Genomyx is moving forward so rapidly with these new releases + Decimate. By the way, do you know if the ability of gymnema to reduce is carb cravings is dependent on its ability to mimic glucose on the tongue and oral mucosa? If so, I think we should start advocating the emptying to Slin-sane capsules into a cup of water and drinking up! (I'm only half joking, this would be a pretty cool idea)

Would directly drinking the powder decrease necessary wait time to assimilate the ingredients?

[mr.cooper69]

Would directly drinking the powder decrease necessary wait time to assimilate the ingredients?

Yes, by an insignficant amount of time

[chedapalooza]

Yes, by an insignficant amount of time

Yea was just curious.. No need to rush or tamper. Pills r obviously most convenient anyway..

[John33]

The reasons for taking a capsule prior to carbohydrates are numerous... I, for one, am sensitive to carbs. I eat pancakes and want to take a nap. I eat ice cream and I feel like sh't; lethargic, temperamental, etc. Using a GDA prevents this from happening, amazingly enough.

I do not feel bad at all after eating carbs, but here is my situation after a meal:

I follow Intermittent Fasting protocol, so I eat only twice a day with long breaks in between. I eat a pretty big breakfast (around 7:30 am) and feel fine after it. My second meal is around 4:30 pm. It is pretty big. After that second meal, which is low in carbs (less than 40 grams), I still feel good, but I usually become very sleepy. Do you have any idea why?

Since I have heard good things about Need2Slin and a number of low-carbers recommended taking 1 capsule before a low-carb meal, I decided to try it. Amazingly, I felt fully awake after that second meal. I tried it again and again. After a week, its effect has diminished, but it was still doing something. However, I have noticed that I get a slight pricking in my heart after I take Need2Slin, so I stopped taking it. I assume the offending ingredient in Need2Slin is Synephrine HCI, but other ingredients are pretty close to SSv1.

So, it's not necessarily a matter of creating a problem and minimizing the effect, but rather utilizing the carbohydrates efficiently... so, there is no problem to speak of in the first place.

Ahhh, I see. This explanation makes total sense to me and makes things a lot clearer.

The pre-bed fasted dose, which also improves insulin sensitivity, will also optimize GH release during sleep (though don't expect body composition changes; one would need to be consistent with this dosing over a long period of time - even then it's not at all comparable to peptide use)... and another nice little perk we noticed is that it enhances sleep quality.

Peptide use? What do you mean by that?

I took one capsule pre-bed yesterday. Had some bizarre dreams and actually had harder time falling asleep, but it is hard to say what really happened after just one try. Will try again today.

[John33]

Glad to see Genomyx is moving forward so rapidly with these new releases + Decimate.

What is Decimate? What is in it? When is it supposed to come out? Thanks.

[HYBRID]

Fat Burner, Soon, Soon. We should have more updated for you guys his week. SSV2, Protocol DP and Decimate should all be completed around the same time. 2-3 weeks. SSV2 got pushed back a little longer due to testing.

[Smitty77]

I do not feel bad at all after eating carbs, but here is my situation after a meal:

I follow Intermittent Fasting protocol, so I eat only twice a day with long breaks in between. I eat a pretty big breakfast (around 7:30 am) and feel fine after it. My second meal is around 4:30 pm. It is pretty big. After that second meal, which is low in carbs (less than 40 grams), I still feel good, but I usually become very sleepy. Do you have any idea why?

Since I have heard good things about Need2Slin and a number of low-carbers recommended taking 1 capsule before a low-carb meal, I decided to try it. Amazingly, I felt fully awake after that second meal. I tried it again and again. After a week, its effect has diminished, but it was still doing something. However, I have noticed that I get a slight pricking in my heart after I take Need2Slin, so I stopped taking it. I assume the offending ingredient in Need2Slin is Synephrine HCI, but other ingredients are pretty close to SSv1.

Ahhh, I see. This explanation makes total sense to me and makes things a lot clearer.

I'm not familiar with Need2Slin; I also don't know why anyone would want to include a stimulant like synephrine in a GDA, but that certainly would explain why you're having some type of cardiovascular response to it.

But, to go on your larger meal at 4:30... though it contains a smaller amount of CHO, remember that everything is contributing to serum glucose levels. Even when you have just a protein shake, the pancreas is producing insulin in response. So, insulin sensitivity is high for breakfast at 7:30 (because you've gone 15 hours without eating), hence why you feel fine.

Is that the only time you have carbs during the day?

Peptide use? What do you mean by that?

I took one capsule pre-bed yesterday. Had some bizarre dreams and actually had harder time falling asleep, but it is hard to say what really happened after just one try. Will try again today.

With long-term HGH or GH use, you'll notice body composition changes, but the natural results stemming from fasted GDA use won't result in the same.

As you experiment with that pre-bed dosing, don't pay attention so much to its (in)ability to put you to sleep, but rather how well you sleep and how you feel/look upon waking. Bizarre dreams tip me off that it had some effect.