Slin-Sane v2

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1

    Agree. I know our product (Purus) promotes keeping blood glucose levels stable from high GI carbs (carbs in general), as well as speeding blood glucose clearance. It overall improves/promotes carbohydrate metabolism.
    This should apply to most GDAs either way.
    Right. By all means, I am not using these products as a freebie to eat bags of junk and not workout.. There is a method to the madness. I know WITHOUT them, I could not do what I do and maintain a half decent physique.. Was just hoping to share one of my personal uses.. I DO use a GDA year round before basically every and any ingestion of calories and most fasted cardio or lifting . I'm confident in genomyx's newest !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza

    Right. By all means, I am not using these products as a freebie to eat bags of junk and not workout.. There is a method to the madness. I know WITHOUT them, I could not do what I do and maintain a half decent physique.. Was just hoping to share one of my personal uses.. I DO use a GDA year round before basically every and any ingestion of calories and most fasted cardio or lifting . I'm confident in genomyx's newest !!
    Yeah for me SLINshot is pretty much a staple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    I see. I was using chitosan+chromium caps and phase2 carb blocker for spill over. All calories were clean as in no processed foods.. 90%complex low glycemic cRbs and 90-95% unsaturated fats from nuts/nut butter sources
    Macronutrient density, not how "clean" the foods were, will determine fat storage. But yes, you were blocking a good bit of carbs.

    Just as an aside, I would try to stop this practice as it could lead to disordered eating patterns. I've seen it happen in some pretty bright people over on BB.com.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Macronutrient density, not how "clean" the foods were, will determine fat storage. But yes, you were blocking a good bit of carbs.

    Just as an aside, I would try to stop this practice as it could lead to disordered eating patterns. I've seen it happen in some pretty bright people over on BB.com.
    Oh I've already gotten that. I'm a recovered anorexic.. So I kinda restrict and have 'rules' and the now the occasional binge to feel not so deprived. I can control it but the thoughts r always there.. Sometimes I have to workout more to compensate for some binging.. But I can tuen it off just as eaSily n buckle down when I really want to like for summer or vaca's. Thanks for looking out tho.

    -apologies for any thread derailing-
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Oh I've already gotten that. I'm a recovered anorexic.. So I kinda restrict and have 'rules' and the now the occasional binge to feel not so deprived. I can control it but the thoughts r always there.. Sometimes I have to workout more to compensate for some binging.. But I can tuen it off just as eaSily n buckle down when I really want to like for summer or vaca's. Thanks for looking out tho.

    -apologies for any thread derailing-
    I understand. While it is great that you are controlling your binges now, the next step is to eliminate them altogether. So don't buy GDAs for this purpose or the problem will never leave!
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    So my ability to eat lots of food at one time on my cheat meal day is bad?

    I can go weeks without a cheat meal too. Do i have a problem? Lol serious question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT View Post
    So my ability to eat lots of food at one time on my cheat meal day is bad?

    I can go weeks without a cheat meal too. Do i have a problem? Lol serious question.
    No, that is fine. My issue was with taking all these nutrient blockers (a metaphoric purge, if you will).
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    No, that is fine. My issue was with taking all these nutrient blockers (a metaphoric purge, if you will).
    Aaahh ok. Just wanted to make sure lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    No, that is fine. My issue was with taking all these nutrient blockers (a metaphoric purge, if you will).
    I was assuming the thought was simply reliance on anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    GDAs are not meant to allow you to eat whatever you want. There is no evidence they partition nutrients to muscle preferentially. However, they do allow for higher insulin sensitivity which is unquestionably beneficial for overall health and could reduce fat storage that is reminiscent of hyperinsulinemia, when chronically administered.
    Just trying to understand how SS v1 or SS v2 works, hence the question: What is the difference between taking, say, SS v2 and then eating one serving of ice cream and a piece of cake vs. not taking SS v2 and eating one serving of ice cream and a piece of cake? If ice cream and cake are bad examples, how about pizza and pasta? Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John33 View Post
    Just trying to understand how SS v1 or SS v2 works, hence the question: What is the difference between taking, say, SS v2 and then eating one serving of ice cream and a piece of cake vs. not taking SS v2 and eating one serving of ice cream and a piece of cake? If ice cream and cake are bad examples, how about pizza and pasta? Thanks.
    I haven't looked into the novel ingredient in SSv2, but the Na-R-ALA/banaba will increase insulin sensitivity and provide insulinomimetic action, thus lowering your total insulin response to the meal (a good thing). The norvaline will transiently increase the available arginine pool for NO synthesis. The gymnema in v1 is great for proper pancreatic function and serves as a carb blocker as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I haven't looked into the novel ingredient in SSv2, but the Na-R-ALA/banaba will increase insulin sensitivity and provide insulinomimetic action, thus lowering your total insulin response to the meal (a good thing). The norvaline will transiently increase the available arginine pool for NO synthesis. The gymnema in v1 is great for proper pancreatic function and serves as a carb blocker as well.
    Are you trying to say it doesn't directly take the nutrients to the muscles and spit everything else out? I thought that's what every GDA ever has said to do?!?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Are you trying to say it doesn't directly take the nutrients to the muscles and spit everything else out? I thought that's what every GDA ever has said to do?!?
    Hopefully you'll find more and more companies that manufacture this type of product will get away from this type of advertising rhetoric... Thing is, these products do work, so companies needn't rely on hyperbole to sell to the educated consumer.

    Saying that this class of products shuttles nutrients is one thing... Saying that they shuttle nutrients directly to muscle is another (if they're GLUT 4 reliant, how can they specifically transport to muscle?).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
    Hopefully you'll find more and more companies that manufacture this type of product will get away from this type of advertising rhetoric... Thing is, these products do work, so companies needn't rely on hyperbole to sell to the educated consumer.

    Saying that this class of products shuttles nutrients is one thing... Saying that they shuttle nutrients directly to muscle is another (if they're GLUT 4 reliant, how can they specifically transport to muscle?).
    Certainly, and I do understand advertising. It's just funny to me. I'm ready for this stuff to release though!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    I'm ready for this stuff to release though!
    Ditto!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    I haven't looked into the novel ingredient in SSv2, but the Na-R-ALA/banaba will increase insulin sensitivity and provide insulinomimetic action, thus lowering your total insulin response to the meal (a good thing). The norvaline will transiently increase the available arginine pool for NO synthesis. The gymnema in v1 is great for proper pancreatic function and serves as a carb blocker as well.
    Question for you coop about v1(didn't want to start a new thread for a simple question) for the pre bed dose I take 8g arginine for the possible gh enhancement(prob doesn't help but I have 2lbs leftover from last year might as well use them) would this affect the slin sane dose I take in any negative way?

    Also, how long do the ingredients stay active in the body? If I take a cap, wait 30 mins, then eat a 75-100g carb meal over the course of the next hour or so, does the entire meal get affected or just some of it due to slin sanes half life?
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    Have the SSv2 ingredients already been released?
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    Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa View Post
    Question for you coop about v1(didn't want to start a new thread for a simple question) for the pre bed dose I take 8g arginine for the possible gh enhancement(prob doesn't help but I have 2lbs leftover from last year might as well use them) would this affect the slin sane dose I take in any negative way?

    Also, how long do the ingredients stay active in the body? If I take a cap, wait 30 mins, then eat a 75-100g carb meal over the course of the next hour or so, does the entire meal get affected or just some of it due to slin sanes half life?
    I know you said Coop, but I'm going to answer anyhow.

    Norvaline is an arginase inhibitor, so arginine doesn't affect SS negatively. SS, in fact, renders it useless.

    Banaba and gymnema both have short half-lives (banaba is 20 mins., actually, and gymnema isn't too much longer); norvaline is active for about 6 hours. The nutrients of that meal are moved along very quickly, not necessarily over the next hour, but SS's ingredients work in concert to keep things continuous.

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaDog View Post
    Have the SSv2 ingredients already been released?
    Can't recall if I posted them in here or not, so here you are, superstar.

    Jiaogulan (98% Gypenosides) - 185mg
    Na-R-ALA - 143mg
    Banaba PE (1% Corosolic acid) - 100mg
    L-Norvaline - 100mg
    Biotin - 1mg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
    I know you said Coop, but I'm going to answer anyhow.

    Norvaline is an arginase inhibitor, so arginine doesn't affect SS negatively. SS, in fact, renders it useless.

    Banaba and gymnema both have short half-lives (banaba is 20 mins., actually, and gymnema isn't too much longer); norvaline is active for about 6 hours. The nutrients of that meal are moved along very quickly, not necessarily over the next hour, but SS's ingredients work in concert to keep things continuous.



    Can't recall if I posted them in here or not, so here you are, superstar.

    Jiaogulan (98% Gypenosides) - 185mg
    Na-R-ALA - 143mg
    Banaba PE (1% Corosolic acid) - 100mg
    L-Norvaline - 100mg
    Biotin - 1mg
    Ha! What a waste then! Though the arginine probably doesn't do much anyways. Good to know though.
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    Smitty answered the question perfectly, though I must ask, do you have a link to the half-life on norvaline. All the data I've seen indicate a short half-life but extended after-effects on the urea cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Smitty answered the question perfectly, though I must ask, do you have a link to the half-life on norvaline. All the data I've seen indicate a short half-life but extended after-effects on the urea cycle.
    My apologies, I didn't do the simple math; half-life is estimated at ~3 hours:
    http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.58608.html (Properties, EPISuite)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
    Banaba and gymnema both have short half-lives (banaba is 20 mins., actually, and gymnema isn't too much longer); norvaline is active for about 6 hours. The nutrients of that meal are moved along very quickly, not necessarily over the next hour, but SS's ingredients work in concert to keep things continuous.
    I am sure I missing something major here, but I am not sure I understand how banaba and gymnema can work in concert with other ingredients if they are only active for 20 minutes. Could you please explain that? Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
    My apologies, I didn't do the simple math; half-life is estimated at ~3 hours:
    http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.58608.html (Properties, EPISuite)
    That's the atmospheric half-life predicted based on reactions with hydroxyl radicals. The biological half-life is different, and it's been a while since I looked into it, but I recall it being <1 hour in theory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I haven't looked into the novel ingredient in SSv2, but the Na-R-ALA/banaba will increase insulin sensitivity and provide insulinomimetic action...
    What is an "insulinomimetic action?" Does it fool the body into thinking that it releases insulin when no actual insulin (or a decreased dosage) has actually been released by the body?

    The gymnema in v1 is great for proper pancreatic function and serves as a carb blocker as well.
    When you say "a carb blocker," do you mean that it blocks any carbs regardless of the source? The reason I ask is because, Phase 2 (White Bean Extract), for example, also blocks carbs, but only starches.

    I am still a bit confused about the real purpose behind using GDAs in general and something like SS (v1 or v2) in particular. Here is how I understand this whole thing: If something - in this case gymnema - blocks carbs and something else - in this case Na-R-ALA/banaba - minimizes insulin release, then it sounds like perfect supplement for someone who wants to minimize the impact of carbs on the body. That is great, but if the purpose is to block carbs and minimize insulin release, how is it beneficial for muscle building? That is what I do not understand. I mean, it sounds like a supplement for somebody who wants to "cheat" on a low-carb diet and, for the most part, get away with it. There is nothing wrong with that, I just want to make sure that I understand correctly what this supplement is for.

    Please explain. Thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John33 View Post
    What is an "insulinomimetic action?" Does it fool the body into thinking that it releases insulin when no actual insulin (or a decreased dosage) has actually been released by the body?

    When you say "a carb blocker," do you mean that it blocks any carbs regardless of the source? The reason I ask is because, Phase 2 (White Bean Extract), for example, also blocks carbs, but only starches.

    I am still a bit confused about the real purpose behind using GDAs in general and something like SS (v1 or v2) in particular. Here is how I understand this whole thing: If something - in this case gymnema - blocks carbs and something else - in this case Na-R-ALA/banaba - minimizes insulin release, then it sounds like perfect supplement for someone who wants to minimize the impact of carbs on the body. That is great, but if the purpose is to block carbs and minimize insulin release, how is it beneficial for muscle building? That is what I do not understand. I mean, it sounds like a supplement for somebody who wants to "cheat" on a low-carb diet and, for the most part, get away with it. There is nothing wrong with that, I just want to make sure that I understand correctly what this supplement is for.

    Please explain. Thank you.
    "Fool" is the improper term. It simply disposes of blood glucose, much like insulin, but without the feedback on other bodily processes (for the most part).

    Gymnema is a glucose blocker, and since glucose comprises the majority of all foods we are consuming (unless pounding soda rich in HFCS and milk rich in galactose), it blocks a rather broad category of carbs.

    The carb-blockers are more for people who are cutting/cheating, but improving insulin sensitivity is more of a health thing. The impact of a GDA (note: GDA, not carb blocker) on muscle building will be minimal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    The carb-blockers are more for people who are cutting/cheating, but improving insulin sensitivity is more of a health thing. The impact of a GDA (note: GDA, not carb blocker) on muscle building will be minimal.
    What is the purpose of taking a GDA and then consuming a lot of carbs? The reason I ask is because it says on all GDA products to take a serving of a given GDA supplement and then, 15 to 20 minutes later, to consume a lot of carbs before a workout? If a given GDA basically minimizes the impact of carbs on the body, then why take it in the first place?

    Also, why do people say that after taking a GDA and then consuming carbs, their muscles feel "fuller" (as if the muscles are pumped)? Is it just a placebo?
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    Quote Originally Posted by John33 View Post
    What is the purpose of taking a GDA and then consuming a lot of carbs? The reason I ask is because it says on all GDA products to take a serving of a given GDA supplement and then, 15 to 20 minutes later, to consume a lot of carbs before a workout? If a given GDA basically minimizes the impact of carbs on the body, then why take it in the first place?

    Also, why do people say that after taking a GDA and then consuming carbs, their muscles feel "fuller" (as if the muscles are pumped)? Is it just a placebo?
    I'll let Smitty take it from here. I've been hounding this thread long enough .

    I'll just end with:

    A. The impact of carbs on the body is FAR from limited to simple insulin secretion.

    B. Muscles feeling fuller could be due to increased glycogen storage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    That's the atmospheric half-life predicted based on reactions with hydroxyl radicals. The biological half-life is different, and it's been a while since I looked into it, but I recall it being <1 hour in theory.
    You always know how to set me straight, sir... Even if less than an hour, that glucose translocation process is well underway.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    The carb-blockers are more for people who are cutting/cheating, but improving insulin sensitivity is more of a health thing. The impact of a GDA (note: GDA, not carb blocker) on muscle building will be minimal.
    I think the indirect effect is what most people are looking for when answering this type of question for the casual consumer...

    Simply stated, John, what most will notice is that using a GDA prior to a meal will leave you with less of a full/bloated feeling. This, in turn, would allow you to consume more calories. We know an excess of calories = bulk, provided you're eating the right types of calories. Some might have this misconception that popping a cap and polishing off a half-gallon of ice cream is a safe zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by John33 View Post
    What is the purpose of taking a GDA and then consuming a lot of carbs? The reason I ask is because it says on all GDA products to take a serving of a given GDA supplement and then, 15 to 20 minutes later, to consume a lot of carbs before a workout? If a given GDA basically minimizes the impact of carbs on the body, then why take it in the first place?

    Also, why do people say that after taking a GDA and then consuming carbs, their muscles feel "fuller" (as if the muscles are pumped)? Is it just a placebo?
    To answer your second question first, Coop nailed it. It's due to glycogen storage. This pump that people experience when training is due specifically to that; you would get a pump if consuming carbs pre-WO anyhow. A GDA expedites the process, is all.

    But, yes, it's a general health supplement that has a number of indirect benefits that relate more to feeding: intra-WO endurance will improve, as will recovery because your body is making better use of the carbohydrates; improved insulin sensitivity and, with the addition of several new ingredients to SSv2, it's even more of a general health supplement, with additional cardioprotective and anti-oxidant properties, immune system support and neuroprotective effects.

    We want consumers to know that the GDA category isn't to be exploited by companies who are making false and superfluous claims of what the product is capable of doing.
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    Very pleased with the knowledge going on here right now. Two thumbs up for smitty n genomyx - and coop as always
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
    But, yes, it's a general health supplement that has a number of indirect benefits that relate more to feeding: intra-WO endurance will improve, as will recovery because your body is making better use of the carbohydrates; improved insulin sensitivity and, with the addition of several new ingredients to SSv2, it's even more of a general health supplement, with additional cardioprotective and anti-oxidant properties, immune system support and neuroprotective effects.
    Thank you for answering my questions. When is the SSv2 going to be available?
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    Looking at 3 weeks or less
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    Props to Coop and Smitty for the in depth scientific discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
    Jiaogulan (98% Gypenosides) - 185mg
    Na-R-ALA - 143mg
    Banaba PE (1% Corosolic acid) - 100mg
    L-Norvaline - 100mg
    Biotin - 1mg
    What are your thought on a water-soluble extract of Cinnamon (something like Cinnulin PF, for example) and Bitter Melon. I wonder why they did not make the grade to be included in the new formula.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John33 View Post
    What are your thought on a water-soluble extract of Cinnamon (something like Cinnulin PF, for example) and Bitter Melon. I wonder why they did not make the grade to be included in the new formula.
    The clinical data on cinnamon is too choppy for us to have gambled on its inclusion; personally, I believe there are far superior ingredients that actually accomplish what cinnamon is proposed to do. Banaba and Na-R-ALA are two such ingredients.

    Bitter melon, while well documented (aside from the comprehensive review found in Cochrane; PMID: 20166099), just couldn't find a home amidst this formula. This isn't to say that we'd never consider using it, as it's a fine ingredient, but we wanted a formula that could perform better than the original, retain that same dosing versatility, and that wouldn't be too potent to prevent users from taking more than one capsule at a time. We couldn't combine a number of anti-diabetic/insulino-mimetic elements and accomplish what we set out to do with this formula; hence why gymnema was omitted.

    However, we hope that the smarter and more curious customers, such as yourself, look into jiaogulan's benefits... then it'll be known why it trumped almost any other ingredient.

    You're keeping me on my toes, John... I appreciate it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
    However, we hope that the smarter and more curious customers, such as yourself, look into jiaogulan's benefits... then it'll be known why it trumped almost any other ingredient.
    Jiaogulan is a Southern Ginseng, right? If yes, what is the potency of the extract? Is it 10:1, 12:1? Does it contain at least 20% of naturally occurring gypenosides? Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John33 View Post
    Jiaogulan is a Southern Ginseng, right? If yes, what is the potency of the extract? Is it 10:1, 12:1? Does it contain at least 20% of naturally occurring gypenosides? Thanks.
    That's the English name, yes... 98% gypenosides.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty77

    That's the English name, yes... 98% gypenosides.
    I like ginseng.. I've used e bol with great results- has 333mg of Korean red ginseng for 10%
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    I like ginseng.. I've used e bol with great results- has 333mg of Korean red ginseng for 10%
    It's certainly a species (ginseng in general) that offers a number of great properties... Which reminds me; below is a very comprehensive outline of what jiaogulan can do. Plenty of research to support the contents, but this provides a great overview:

    http://www.ijrpbsonline.com/files/RV12.pdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
    It's certainly a species (ginseng in general) that offers a number of great properties... Which reminds me; below is a very comprehensive outline of what jiaogulan can do. Plenty of research to support the contents, but this provides a great overview:

    http://www.ijrpbsonline.com/files/RV12.pdf
    Definitely looks interesting and well worth the swap.
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    Very interesting profile. Jiaogulan is a great herb, I take it daily.
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