Overtraining does it exist
- 01-31-2006, 10:52 PM
- 01-31-2006, 11:00 PM
Yes it does exist. Get enough time off, train,rest,grow.
- 01-31-2006, 11:04 PM
If it's working, change nothing. This should be obvious.
02-01-2006, 05:08 AM
Agreed, if your making "great" gains, then your not overtraining.Originally Posted by TheCrownedOne
02-01-2006, 08:27 AM
You could start keeping track of your resting pulse for a more objective way to look at it.
When you wake up tomorrow, before you even get out of bed, check your pulse for a full minute. Do this about once a week. If you suddenly notice your average number take a big jump, you're probably overtraining. Then take a few days off and recover.
Side note: when you take your OWN pulse, use your thumb. Since it has the same pulse as your wrist, it will enhance what your feel. You only need to use two fingers when taking someone elses pulse.
02-01-2006, 08:30 AM
overtraining specific muscles definitely exists and overtaxing the CNS absolutely exists
02-01-2006, 09:32 AM
You'll know when you're overtraining b/c you won't be gaining, you'll feel lethargic all the time, and you'll get sick easily.
Good info, Crunch
02-01-2006, 10:21 AM
When I was competing, I'd use the pulse checks a lot. It seems I'd notice the rise in resting HR before I started feeling like crap...kind of an early warning system. I could then take 2 days off and be good by the third day, rather than waiting unitl I felt like **** and had to take a week off.
This all reminded me of something else too. Don't take your pulse in your neck. There are barorecptors located there, they help regulate blood pressure. Since your BP and HR have an inverse relationship, if you push there, your body will think it's BP has gone up, thereby reducing your HR and giving you a false lower reading.
Unless you want to wear a polar monitor to bed, the thumb on your wrist is the best. It works!
02-01-2006, 11:23 AM
Yep, overtraining is probably were most newbies spend their time. After making those big initial gains you're usually all enthusiastic to make more, train harder et cetera, then the gains stop and you train even harder and harder until tendons start to get damaged. This is what I did and my shoulder paid quite a price.
Finding your sweet spot in terms of training frequency can be tough but is a very important aspect of BBing.
I now lift only two days per week and mentally, I feel a lot better. I'm rearing to go when I hit the gym and have far fewer joint/tendon issues.
02-01-2006, 01:24 PM
BIOMAN!! How ya been!!
02-01-2006, 05:01 PM
Doin good. House renovations are trying to eat away my gains but I'm fighting back
02-01-2006, 05:45 PM
Guys I seem to overtrain quite easily and at relativly low volumes of activity relative to others. I never had great recovery but it has gotten worse over the years. I am only 31 right now but my exercise tolerance is actually quite low. I can make great gains in size and weight either off (not bad) or on AAS (great) but nonetheless I am always left with that fatigued and lethargic feeling all the time. So even though my training is improving, the rest of the day I feel pretty ****ty. Do you guys have any helpful advice? I just went through a long layoff and now in my second week of training again I feel the lethargy already coming back.
02-01-2006, 05:51 PM
i can tell when i break is in order. i train pretty f'ing hard 4x/wk hitting each bodypart twice in a weeks time. after 6-7 weeks, my body feels used and abused, definately time for a break. last time, 5 days was enough and i felt ready to roll again. just gotta watch for it, you can always tell when it's coming. feel tired all day, workouts drag by without enthusiasm, not hungry, etc.
02-03-2006, 04:17 PM
Mr.50 you may have sleep apnea. This problem will greatly reduce your recovery ability and overall energy level. You are at an age where it might start to show up.
If you snore or snort, wake up in the morning with a headache, or just fail to feel rested after you wake you might have this condition.
If you have these symptoms try sleeping on your side to reduce the problem. However full treatment requires use of the medical profession and nightly CAP machine use.
02-03-2006, 05:07 PM
Do you train to failure all the time? Post what your workout isOriginally Posted by Mr.50
02-03-2006, 07:40 PM
My tolerance for work done has actually increased over that last couple of years.
You might want to research GPP (General Physical Preparedness) which is a fancy way of saying "how much work your body is prepared to do".
A greater GPP doesn't stop OT'ing in and of itself, but it does help decrease your recovery time, which is always good.
02-04-2006, 05:26 PM
Thanks for all of these great sugestions guys. I have to say that it is likely a combination of a number of things. First of all in the past I have always trained to failure and I recently made a strong resolution not to. So hopefully that will help. Also I think that there is a good chance that I do have sleep apnea because I snore really loudly, have chronic depression (which is associated), and my girlfriend has remarked that sometimes it seems like I will stop breathing for a while and then start suddenly breathing again when I am asleep. Is there any way to get a CPAP machaine without a Dr.s intervention because I would love to try it but I really dont have the money right now for a full sleep study and possibly the CPAP machine. Unfortunatly I am in the process of getting my health insurance changed over also.
Also I will look into researching the general physical preparedness. Sounds interesting.
02-04-2006, 07:37 PM
Unfortunatly those machine manufacturers/sellers require a prescription which also will tell them how to set-up the machine which was learned from your sleep study.Originally Posted by Mr.50
I'm in the same boat as you. I've put off the study for several months.
My father had sleep apnea and uses a CPAP machine and when he started with the machine immediately his energy level sky-rocketed and his mood was elevated. He was able to exercise longer and more frequently. He had a new desire to exercise. His legs didn't tire from long walks at the mall. He claimed his sexual energy/performance/libido was more consistent. In short he became a younger man.
I believe I have sleep apnea. I am not able to do long work-outs (i.e longer than 1hr) without bringing on difficulty in recovery.
This is something we probably should pay attention to and not put off to much longer.
02-04-2006, 08:00 PM
Longer than 1 hour of working out brings me some difficulty in recovering, that doesnt necessarily mean I nor you, have sleep apnea. After an hour of hard exercise your glycogen must be on the verge of depletion.
02-05-2006, 04:57 AM
Good points. However I also have all of the other sleep apnea symptoms.Originally Posted by PVSkyHigh
02-06-2006, 12:23 AM
Anyone know if you
need a prescription for any of the online places that sell CPAP machines?
Originally Posted by meowmeow
02-06-2006, 01:00 AM
All of the online places I've checked out require a script. I was thinking you could buy a used machine without but Ebay's policy states:Originally Posted by Mr.50
Examples of prescription items not permitted on eBay include, but are not limited to:
02-06-2006, 02:34 AM
Originally Posted by meowmeow
02-06-2006, 04:06 PM
Decreased motivation is a big side effect too. Overtraining has a way of almost preventing itself by this(almost). Whenever I over train, I dont feel like going to the gym, thus, giving my self time to recover.
02-06-2006, 05:36 PM
See it sucks because even when I don't feel like it I force myself to go. Then it gets worse and even my motivation for other areas of my life lessens. Eventually it is a total burnout for a while.
Originally Posted by spatch
02-06-2006, 09:42 PM
You should build your GPP up slowly. The worst thing is starting off fast and thinking you can just go, go and go.
02-08-2006, 06:48 AM
I know about 3 people that have that machine. They say they couldn't live without it now...lol.
You'll finally be able to get some quality sleep after you get that thing. You should get a doc to adjust it though, because you need the pressure to be just right or it could screw your breathing up worse.
I'll see if I can find a GPP article. There's probably quite a few on elitefts.com
02-08-2006, 10:23 AM
I really want to try this but I can't pay for the Doc visits, Sleep Study, and machine right now. WTF? Why does it have to be so hard to try to help yourself in this country?
Originally Posted by -2z-
02-08-2006, 12:13 PM
my insurance covered all those things .. check to see if yours does
02-08-2006, 12:31 PM
Are you self employed? I am and in the aspect of health insurance it sucks because I am not part of a group so many of the benefits are really different. I am in the process of increasing my coverage to the maximum I was able to find but I am not sure yet if I will get coverage or not. I am waiting to find out. Even so the first effective date will be March 1st and I don't know enough about insurance to determine whether or not I can go right away to get a sleep study done etc. or if I have to wait a while.
Originally Posted by glenihan
02-08-2006, 02:17 PM
no not self employed and i know very little about insurance .. didn't realize your situation .. just saying you should check if you haven't .. but evidently you have
02-08-2006, 02:30 PM
Thanks for the suggestion bro. I am trying to get the better insurance set up right now. Hopefully it will all work out.
Originally Posted by glenihan
02-14-2006, 07:42 PM
you can seriously injure yourself if you overtrain, shoulders take the biggest beating
02-16-2006, 05:58 PM
It becomes much easier to overtrain as you get stronger due to the fact that the stresses are far greater at that point which is why as you get stronger you will need to reduce the volume of exercise done during your workouts and insert more rest days between workouts.
02-16-2006, 06:03 PM
That is such a great point and in my experience it has been totally true.
Originally Posted by phil216
02-16-2006, 06:29 PM
thanks, very rare around here that someone agrees with a HIT guy
02-16-2006, 06:42 PM
I've always trained this way too and love it. Plenty of time off for recovery is key for growth. And it keeps you fresh mentally.Originally Posted by phil216
02-16-2006, 07:17 PM
It seems so obvious that as you grow stronger you would need more time to recover but so few people actually do so. In fact most people do the exact opposite by adding more sets and training more often which will in most cases lead to overtraining. Wat people need to realize is that training longer does not equal training harder
02-16-2006, 08:49 PM
I also agree totally, even though I'm a volume guy. Actually, I'm in a state of overtraining right now.Originally Posted by phil216
I had taken a Tribulus product and hadn't realized how good the extra test was at keeping me fresh. I hit the wall.
I belive that recuperative abilities, like anything else, can be trained, to a point. They will diminish as you get older for SURE, so I find it is best to train with high volume as you are smaller and younger and stretch these recuperative abilities as well as you can.
This is done by going into voluntary overtraining by excess volume or frequency, but obviously as this is voluntary, you KNOW it's going to happen, you watch out for it, then take a few days off and come back to the gym with lessened volume and frequency. You then have ample recuperative abilities for the amount of damage you are making.
NOT doing this will eventually create a situation where you have to train Mentzer-style. Nothing wrong with that, but I like lifting, and spending 90 minutes a week doing resistance work would never be enough to keep me motivated.
02-16-2006, 09:07 PM
Good points. It's funny that you mention 90 minutes a week. That's how long Dorian Yates said he trained a week for his Olympia wins in his book. I always patterned my training after his. He also believed that as you get stronger and more advanced, rest requirements increase. Not just for muscle but the cns as well.Originally Posted by Grunt76
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