Training making me fat?

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  1. Background-

    I took a week off last week (planned) after 11 weeks on straigt.. I felt n LOOKED great, better than any point during the training :/

    Now I'm back at it and literally after two days of training feel like I've been hit by a bus, motivation is shot and I look swollen bloated n lost mostly all definition and muscle hardness. Also stomach is getting distention and bloat.. Like the second I stress my body, it does this.. The past two times ive taken lay off weeks, I've ended up looking and feeling amazing- makes me think I should stop all thr lifting and doing all the cardio or DRASTICALLY reduce.. Right now im at 4-5 days a week of lifting and 3-4 of cardio.. I utilize heavy compounds plus fst7 techniques, x reps, drop sets, supersets, rest pause. I also do 1.5 mile timed runs for employment testing, hiit sprints, low intensity walking and stairmaster for my cardio.. Sessions r ~2 hours with lifting and cardio n abs done all together. I will split cardio n weights/abs into two session a day if possible.

    Point is: why does my body respond so negatively (visually) when I train? And why do things get a million times better when I have off weeks with minimal activity?? It's quite frustrating and confusing- help/advice greatly appreciated - I'm thinking extreme cortisol is the culprit but products formulated to reduce it have never helped, in fact some have worsened the bloating!

    how long should layoffs be after 6 to 12 weeks of intense training.I'm Talking omg I can't get out of bed training.. Like maybe the 5-6 days off wasn't enough? Perhaps a full 2 weeks or even like ten days would have been needed due to intensity of training ? Is that too much?


  2. Bump for help
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  3. Your overall workload isn't extreme, which leads me to believe that your diet is the issue. Post up your diet breakdown: P/F/C and total calories. I'll also need your bodyweight and BF%.

  4. I agree with Cooper sound like it may be your diet.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    Your overall workload isn't extreme, which leads me to believe that your diet is the issue. Post up your diet breakdown: P/F/C and total calories. I'll also need your bodyweight and BF%.
    Will do once I get home. That is the new revised and lessened workload actually Thst I'm implementing this week. The mind bender is how I leaned out n filled out during the whole week of NO training! Lol

  6. i would agree with the diet piece... I had a similiar issue and it was diet. the leaned out/ filled out on time off is not much of a surprise. your grow at rest, not during training. I recall i had to take as week off training for work once and at the end of the week I looked GREAT compared to normal... wasnt giving my body enough rest.
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by StangBanger
    i would agree with the diet piece... I had a similiar issue and it was diet. the leaned out/ filled out on time off is not much of a surprise. your grow at rest, not during training. I recall i had to take as week off training for work once and at the end of the week I looked GREAT compared to normal... wasnt giving my body enough rest.
    Lol crazy. I understand the grow at rest. However training m w f with weekends off.. That's gotta be enough! Albeit they were/are 2-3 hour sessions of cardio and weights.. :/ I'm omw home now andj will get diet specs up asap

  8. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Lol crazy. I understand the grow at rest. However training m w f with weekends off.. That's gotta be enough! Albeit they were/are 2-3 hour sessions of cardio and weights.. :/ I'm omw home now andj will get diet specs up asap
    You could never train at all, if your diet is crap, you will look and feel like crap.

  9. Right. Well honestly I do not count macros. I did that for a while in 2006 and it let me to anorexia and serious ocd with food as I have mentioned many times on here.

    On training days I eat all calories post lift in a 4-6 hour window..low to Mod carb (50-100g max) and high fat / protein (30-60g fat) (minimum bw of protein) I use protein powder post workout with aminos and then again before bed. All calories spread over 2 meals over the 4-6 hours..

    On off days I have aminos upon waking, protein powder 2-3 hours later, decent sized meal 3-4 hours later and another smaller meal+protein powder before bed.. Same macros for meals as above. I dont want to count them, but from years of label reading and measuring, I know roughly what I'm getting daily. If I start missing meals or don't get enough cals, my face gets drawn and I get bony looking and my gf yells at me haha.

    I am 5'6 165.. Bf never been measured... Have visible serattus and upper abs.. Lower abs are loose skin/soft/hanging fat/water which swells and recedes based on diet and exercise levels.

    Training for pAst 3-4 years has been running 1.5 mike in 10-10.5 minutes on treadmill for job related function. Then doing minute long sprints at 9-10mph followed by minute walking for a total of 20 minutes. Then I would lift. Then hit steady cardio on Ellipt or incline walking for 10-20 mins depending on needs. Lifting and Abs-1.5 hours, cardio ~45 mins to an hour.. 4-5 days a week. Now I'm doing this running+hit twice a week and doing steady state low intensity another two days a week for 45-60 mins FOLLOWING weights or on non weight training days.. I usually hit all muscles twice a week. Except legs, just once. In the 20-30 set range for chest and back and legs and 10-15 for arms n shoulders/traps. Really feel like my issues r cortisol related. I also have been a heavy stim user for 5-6 years now.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Right. Well honestly I do not count macros. I did that for a while in 2006 and it let me to anorexia and serious ocd with food as I have mentioned many times on here.

    On training days I eat all calories post lift in a 4-6 hour window..low to Mod carb (50-100g max) and high fat / protein (30-60g fat) (minimum bw of protein) I use protein powder post workout with aminos and then again before bed. All calories spread over 2 meals over the 4-6 hours..

    On off days I have aminos upon waking, protein powder 2-3 hours later, decent sized meal 3-4 hours later and another smaller meal+protein powder before bed.. Same macros for meals as above. I dont want to count them, but from years of label reading and measuring, I know roughly what I'm getting daily. If I start missing meals or don't get enough cals, my face gets drawn and I get bony looking and my gf yells at me haha.

    I am 5'6 165.. Bf never been measured... Have visible serattus and upper abs.. Lower abs are loose skin/soft/hanging fat/water which swells and recedes based on diet and exercise levels.

    Training for pAst 3-4 years has been running 1.5 mike in 10-10.5 minutes on treadmill for job related function. Then doing minute long sprints at 9-10mph followed by minute walking for a total of 20 minutes. Then I would lift. Then hit steady cardio on Ellipt or incline walking for 10-20 mins depending on needs. Lifting and Abs-1.5 hours, cardio ~45 mins to an hour.. 4-5 days a week. Now I'm doing this running+hit twice a week and doing steady state low intensity another two days a week for 45-60 mins FOLLOWING weights or on non weight training days.. I usually hit all muscles twice a week. Except legs, just once. In the 20-30 set range for chest and back and legs and 10-15 for arms n shoulders/traps. Really feel like my issues r cortisol related. I also have been a heavy stim user for 5-6 years now.
    My knee jerk reaction is that your carb intake is way too low to facilitate your workout program with multiple hours of training most days of the week. Carb-phobia appears very common on these boards, and while carbs are indeed non-essential, they are DEFINITELY beneficial, no question about it. Overall caloric balance will determine fat gain, NOT carb intake. In fact, it is actually easier for fat to be stored as adipose than carbs, given an equal caloric surplus.

    My point being, you took time off training while eating junk...and you looked fuller and leaner. This is because you eliminated glycogen depleting activities from your life while simultaneously increasing the amount of glycogen-substrates in your diet. Then you went back to eating a poor diet (note that for body composition, macronutrient content/balance is most important, and thus your current diet is "poor"), skimping on the carbs but not to enough of a degree to enter ketosis, nor enough fats to facilitate bodily function.

    Your issues likely have nothing to do with cortisol, especially since adrenal fatigue is not a real medical condition and you have not "overloaded your adrenals" by using stims over the years.

    Keep up this kind of diet for several months and you land yourself where you are right now.

    Now, how to fix things up. I want you to count calories and macronutrients, loosely, for just one week. That's all, after that period you can go back to normal. The reason being, I want you to get a feel for the amounts of food you should be ingesting to hit a healthy macronutrient level.


    For starters, your diet is not high fat at all. In fact, it is very low. Aim for about 80g of fat daily from here on out. Secondly, 1g protein/lb BW is more than sufficient, so go with that. That means 80g fat, 165g protein. Assuming you are looking to recomp/maintain weight, I'd shoot for about 205g of carbs on top of this. This will leave you at 2200 calories, which, assuming a lightly active activity level outside of your training, should be sufficient or even less than what you need to maintain weight.

    Now I have outlined a similar diet to many members of this board, and the initial response has always been downright fear that eating so much more fat/carbs is going to ruin their physique! This is simply not true. If you are eating 2200 calories as I outlined, you should expect an initial water weight gain from the carbs (this is a GOOD thing, as the water goes to your muscle glycogen), and afterwards, you should maintain or lose weight.

    But most importantly, you will feel better. You will have energy and motivation in the gym, your testosterone levels will thank you, as will your other steroid hormones (which means you know what).

    You will look better too. Fuller muscles and an overall harder, bigger physique. Keep in mind that it took months of this kind of dieting to land you where you are, and it could take weeks to months for the reversal process to occur as far as how you look and feel.

    You know the changes you need to make, now make them happen.
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  11. Really great response coop. I'm forever indebted to you and allthe knowledge you've shared with me over the past year.

    200 g of carbs is like a cheat meal for me! And I honestly dont know how my body will react! That being said, is it stupid/feasible to consume all of those POST workout over two-3 meals ? Bc then it's more like carb back loading for my next days workout..? I really hate/cNt train with food in my system

    Forgot to mention - every sundY night I had been doing a cheat meal with ~150-200 carbs and ~100-150g fat in the meal.. I did that weekly for about 3 months then recently cut back to once a month..

  12. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Really great response coop. I'm forever indebted to you and allthe knowledge you've shared with me over the past year.

    200 g of carbs is like a cheat meal for me! And I honestly dont know how my body will react! That being said, is it stupid/feasible to consume all of those POST workout over two-3 meals ? Bc then it's more like carb back loading for my next days workout..? I really hate/cNt train with food in my system

    Forgot to mention - every sundY night I had been doing a cheat meal with ~150-200 carbs and ~100-150g fat in the meal.. I did that weekly for about 3 months then recently cut back to once a month..
    You certainly can do that, just make sure you hit your daily targets. The timing isn't as relevant as you think, because glycogen levels progressively grow and shrink, rather than simply depleting from one training session and replenishing after your postworkout meal.

    You can keep doing your cheat meals, by the way, since you'll only be at 2200 calories anyway.

  13. Thanks coop

  14. Keep in mind also that changes take time,
    you might not see the "consequences" of your week off (or diet, training changes..) right away.
    So when trying to figure out what caused what, keep that in mind.
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47
    Keep in mind also that changes take time,
    you might not see the "consequences" of your week off (or diet, training changes..) right away.
    So when trying to figure out what caused what, keep that in mind.
    True for sure

  16. Good knowledge coop.
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    My knee jerk reaction is that your carb intake is way too low to facilitate your workout program with multiple hours of training most days of the week. Carb-phobia appears very common on these boards, and while carbs are indeed non-essential, they are DEFINITELY beneficial, no question about it. Overall caloric balance will determine fat gain, NOT carb intake. In fact, it is actually easier for fat to be stored as adipose than carbs, given an equal caloric surplus.
    science has shown that you are wrong with the assumption that fat intake makes you fat. to simplify how it works: you eat, you absorb the food, blood sugar goes up. when it goes up to high insulin is released and stores extra blood sugar as adipose tissue. carbs increase blood sugar much more rapidly then fat, therefore carbs have a greater effect on fat storage then fat intake.

    ill even go more controversial, overall caloric balance is not what will determine fat gain. at least it is not the primary reason.

    now the question, who is correct. well i will refer to gary taubes and his 2 books why we get fat and good calories, bad calories. in those books he references hundreds of published research articles. they all agree with my statement. so if someone wants to see it, that is what i offer for proof of my statement.

    now i am not a paleo guy, or a non carb guy. carbs do have a purpose. i believe carbs are great for high energy needs over a short period of time. some carbs in your diet at ok. i would keep it lower then the other 2 macronutrients though. research has shown that people that average over 100lbs of sugar a year are more likely to get hypertension, gout, diabetes, various cardiovascular diseases, and some would say even increase the chance of cancer.

    the biggest example i have seen of this happened on an island near australia. missionaries came to them with a medical background in the early 1900s. hey kept records which showed over a span of 70 years that when the population ate its naive diet of mostly fish and coconut which consisted of over 50% of total calories from fat they disease, obesity, etc, was nearly unheard of. in the 50's a trade ship came to the island regularly and the average intake of sugar increased by over 4 fold pushing them over that 100lbs/yr example referenced earlier. in 10 years nearly 50% of the population had at least 1 of the diseases/health problems mentioned above. the trade ship ended up running aground in the early 60's and within 10 years most cases of those diseases went away after the population went back to a 50+% fat diet.

    i may still be wrong on this but that is some compelling evidence. and yes i do eat carbs. i am looking forward to donut friday at work tomorrow, om nom nom.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by asooneyeonig View Post
    science has shown that you are wrong with the assumption that fat intake makes you fat. to simplify how it works: you eat, you absorb the food, blood sugar goes up. when it goes up to high insulin is released and stores extra blood sugar as adipose tissue. carbs increase blood sugar much more rapidly then fat, therefore carbs have a greater effect on fat storage then fat intake.

    ill even go more controversial, overall caloric balance is not what will determine fat gain. at least it is not the primary reason.

    now the question, who is correct. well i will refer to gary taubes and his 2 books why we get fat and good calories, bad calories. in those books he references hundreds of published research articles. they all agree with my statement. so if someone wants to see it, that is what i offer for proof of my statement.

    now i am not a paleo guy, or a non carb guy. carbs do have a purpose. i believe carbs are great for high energy needs over a short period of time. some carbs in your diet at ok. i would keep it lower then the other 2 macronutrients though. research has shown that people that average over 100lbs of sugar a year are more likely to get hypertension, gout, diabetes, various cardiovascular diseases, and some would say even increase the chance of cancer.

    the biggest example i have seen of this happened on an island near australia. missionaries came to them with a medical background in the early 1900s. hey kept records which showed over a span of 70 years that when the population ate its naive diet of mostly fish and coconut which consisted of over 50% of total calories from fat they disease, obesity, etc, was nearly unheard of. in the 50's a trade ship came to the island regularly and the average intake of sugar increased by over 4 fold pushing them over that 100lbs/yr example referenced earlier. in 10 years nearly 50% of the population had at least 1 of the diseases/health problems mentioned above. the trade ship ended up running aground in the early 60's and within 10 years most cases of those diseases went away after the population went back to a 50+% fat diet.

    i may still be wrong on this but that is some compelling evidence. and yes i do eat carbs. i am looking forward to donut friday at work tomorrow, om nom nom.
    Did I say fat intake makes you fat? Lol. This [reductionist] view point on insulin doesn't account for post-absorptive overlap between meals, not to mention the effects of other macronutrients on the glycemic index and ultimately, the insulin spike/output. To think carbs and/or insulin is the reason people get fat is archaic and incorrect, as all recent nutrition literature, examining relevant parameters, has shown that a caloric surplus, not carb content of the diet, will determine fat gain.

    I'm not going to discuss this any further as I have argued with people ad nauseum about this topic. My "proof" is actually a research review written by Alan Aragon, updated every month to keep up to date with the latest studies. I don't know a damn thing about Gary Taubes, but if he's drawing conclusions and [incorrectly] citing articles, then I don't care to know him.

    There is no reason to keep carbs lower than the other macronutrients. Macronutrient needs are bodyweight and LBM specific for fat and protein, respectively, and carbs can freely be used on top of one's "optimal" protein and fat intake to hit the necessary calories to achieve the desired energy balance.

    Now, all of this was with respect to the effects of carbs on body composition, and if you wish to dispute prevailing data, I can't do much. Your point, with respect to overall health and disease is duly noted. I have attended seminars from leading researchers on the topic, with projects on organisms ranging from C. elegans to chimpanzees, and there is a strong correlation between longevity, disease, and glycemic load. That is not the topic of discussion for OP's issues, and my advice is not something I'm just repeating....it's something tailor-made for his specific scenario.

  19. aragon knows his s.hit. i really enjoy reading his stuff. great advice in this tread coop, well done...

  20. ......
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.

  21. Aragon isnt infallible
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  22. Great read, guys.

  23. Added carbs daily like u said coop.. Only got worse.. Got even softer.. I can't cut bf at all for some reason right now.. Even with heavy supps and increased cardio ... Tried every type of eating approach .. I'm just so confused, never had such An issue losing weight.. I've cut 5 pounds over night before! Just seems like the harder I go, the worse I look.. No definition/fullness in muscles.. Swollen/puffy/bloated stomach.. Just beyond frustrated and defeated now

  24. How long has it been man not even a week? You have to give your body time to adjust. Since I started eating everything in sight I've started leaning up while gaining muscle at the same time. Just give it time bro.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Added carbs daily like u said coop.. Only got worse.. Got even softer.. I can't cut bf at all for some reason right now.. Even with heavy supps and increased cardio ... Tried every type of eating approach .. I'm just so confused, never had such An issue losing weight.. I've cut 5 pounds over night before! Just seems like the harder I go, the worse I look.. No definition/fullness in muscles.. Swollen/puffy/bloated stomach.. Just beyond frustrated and defeated now
    If you read an earlier post, I warned that this would happen. There is an initial retention of water weight that accompanies the addition of carbohydrates to the diet. Regardless, you need to increase your fats as well (and that was more alarming to me than anything else). They are too low to maintain optimal bodily function, testosterone synthesis included.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    If you read an earlier post, I warned that this would happen. There is an initial retention of water weight that accompanies the addition of carbohydrates to the diet. Regardless, you need to increase your fats as well (and that was more alarming to me than anything else). They are too low to maintain optimal bodily function, testosterone synthesis included.
    I have.. Been adding olive oil to salads. almonds and pistachios.. Eating more cheese, avocado, natty pb, chicken/tuna salad, etc.

    Everytime I've ever cut, it was on a large deficit and near keto diet. I would love more than anything to cut while consuming carbs. The strange thing (and prompt of this post) is when I disnt train all week, it felt like my appetite was more in control and I didn't look all swollen (primarily in the stomach) and like I was retaining anything I actually had increased BM's.. And I wasn't following IF.. I would eat breakfast, lunch, shake, dinner.. But can't do that with the training schedule I have to use.

    Fwiw- Im currently taking OEP, animal cuts, erase, Anabeta, division 1, need2slin (switching to AP in 4 days) , alcar, alri lean dreams at bed, multi, b complex, l tyrosine, d3, horny goat weed blend from vitamin shoppe
    (dropped calcium, magnesium, and zinc having taken it daily since Jan)

    Aggression is through the roof, sleep is poor

    I hope you don't think I'm blowing off your advice.. I'm really doing the things u said.. I'm convinced there's an underlying issue (I know my test was 468 in feb, not sure now) and free test was 73.5 (following 8 weeks of Anabeta and erase, estradiol was not tested bc my dr is a moron. Shbg was 33. those r the only notable numbers from that blood and he's refused to draw any more since!!

  27. Your diet is really low in saturated fat. Improving the sat fat:PUFA ratio should increase your testosterone levels.

    Again, what you experienced earlier was some hormonal normalization and glycogen replenishment. It really seems like you're restricting yourself with the poorly constructed diet. I'm not saying that you should eat nothing but fat and carbs, but re-introduce some balance into your lifestyle. It will help with living happily and sustainably. I wouldn't be offended if you chose not to follow my advice, but I just think your diet could use improvement. The changes will not occur overnight, but they are reversible.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    Your diet is really low in saturated fat. Improving the sat fat:PUFA ratio should increase your testosterone levels.

    Again, what you experienced earlier was some hormonal normalization and glycogen replenishment. It really seems like you're restricting yourself with the poorly constructed diet. I'm not saying that you should eat nothing but fat and carbs, but re-introduce some balance into your lifestyle. It will help with living happily and sustainably. I wouldn't be offended if you chose not to follow my advice, but I just think your diet could use improvement. The changes will not occur overnight, but they are reversible.
    I understand. I wish it wasn't summer or else I would be wholly embracing an attempt at this.

    Im under the impression from vRious readings that 10g sat. Fat is the daily limit..? False? You said 80 unsat.. But what is a good range for sat.?

  29. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    I understand. I wish it wasn't summer or else I would be wholly embracing an attempt at this.

    Im under the impression from vRious readings that 10g sat. Fat is the daily limit..? False? You said 80 unsat.. But what is a good range for sat.?
    I didn't say 80g of unsaturated fat. Saturated fat is essential, and for someone who has been restricting fats, I'd recommend they comprise 1/5 of your daily intake.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Did I say fat intake makes you fat? Lol. This [reductionist] view point on insulin doesn't account for post-absorptive overlap between meals, not to mention the effects of other macronutrients on the glycemic index and ultimately, the insulin spike/output. To think carbs and/or insulin is the reason people get fat is archaic and incorrect, as all recent nutrition literature, examining relevant parameters, has shown that a caloric surplus, not carb content of the diet, will determine fat gain.

    I'm not going to`discuss this any further as I have argued with people ad nauseum about this topic. My "proof" is actually a research review written by Alan Aragon, updated every month to keep up to date with the latest studies. I don't know a damn thing about Gary Taubes, but if he's drawing conclusions and [incorrectly] citing articles, then I don't care to know him.

    There is no reason to keep carbs lower than the other macronutrients. Macronutrient needs are bodyweight and LBM specific for fat and protein, respectively, and carbs can freely be used on top of one's "optimal" protein and fat intake to hit the necessary calories to achieve the desired energy balance.

    Now, all of this was with respect to the effects of carbs on body composition, and if you wish to dispute prevailing data, I can't do much. Your point, with respect to overall health and disease is duly noted. I have attended seminars from leading researchers on the topic, with projects on organisms ranging from C. elegans to chimpanzees, and there is a strong correlation between longevity, disease, and glycemic load. That is not the topic of discussion for OP's issues, and my advice is not something I'm just repeating....it's something tailor-made for his specific scenario.
    Best nutrition related advice Ive read all day.
  

  
 

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