Poll: Best excercise for overall chest mass?

Best Overall Chest Development Excercise

Page 4 of 8 First ... 23456 ... Last

  1. Quote Originally Posted by judge-mental
    I see no point in isolation unless for rehab/prehab or perturbed motor patterns. you wan to recruit the chest? load more weight. triceps/delts fatigue first? flys/pullovers, wide 1 and quarter bench etc are the answer.
    Well, ignoring the injury issue for the time being, the point of pec isolation was quite simply to hit the pecs without letting the anterior and medial delts or triceps weasel in on the action.

    I love compound movements, but I also like isolation to pre-exhaust or for a general change of pace. And since all other pec movements heavily recruit anterior delts (at least) and most recruit some medial delt and/or tris, the supinated flys serve a purpose.

    I appreciate your input.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by ZackMurphy
    Well, ignoring the injury issue for the time being, the point of pec isolation was quite simply to hit the pecs without letting the anterior and medial delts or triceps weasel in on the action.

    I love compound movements, but I also like isolation to pre-exhaust or for a general change of pace. And since all other pec movements heavily recruit anterior delts (at least) and most recruit some medial delt and/or tris, the supinated flys serve a purpose.

    I appreciate your input.
    pullover/decline fly= no delts. try it.
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by vafla
    pullover/decline fly= no delts. try it.
    Well, you're right about no delts, but pull overs recruit some triceps, and some lats. And the decline fly - yeah, that's more iso than most. I don't have a decline at home, but you're right about the movement itself. Probably a small amount of anterior delt, but less than a flat fly, bench press, or any other arm adduction.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by ZackMurphy
    Well, you're right about no delts, but pull overs recruit some triceps, and some lats. And the decline fly - yeah, that's more iso than most. I don't have a decline at home, but you're right about the movement itself. Probably a small amount of anterior delt, but less than a flat fly, bench press, or any other arm adduction.
    pullover = no tricpes (pronated grip)
    decline fly= absolutley no delts, unless youre skeleton and muscualature is not human.

    nice thing about pullover is it aslo brings up you intercostals, pretty muscle IMO

  5. Quote Originally Posted by judge-mental
    if you love youre subacromial bursa and your shoulder as a whole you'll lose this one, as it puts the shoulder in a very unhealthy position (max internal rotation + abduction) unless you are VERY flexible i your shoulder. and I mean VERY

    also, when you start internaly rotated you start with a shorter pectoralis.
    Sorry for the delay - haven't been online much. I was going to come back to this faster but got sidetracked.

    I don't know much about the bursa and the fluid sac there - is that what you're suggesting would take a beating from this movement? Why? Except for the supination, it's not different from any pec fly.

    The way I'm doing this move, I start fully abducted, supinated grip, and I keep the grip supinated. No elbow bend. So there's no real internal rotation. At least not the way I'm picturing it.

    And I agree you'd start with a shorter pectoralis major if you began the movement internally rotated, but you're not - your arms are out like a regular fly, just supinated. If anything, the supination should lengthen the pectoral slightly.

    You know? Enlighten me. Thanks.
    •   
       


  6. just like a regular fly just supinated? youre arms are spinated in a regular fly.

    man i thought you meant pronated earlier cause that would get the front delts out and that was your purpose.

    suppinated is palms up --> regular flys

  7. Quote Originally Posted by judge-mental
    just like a regular fly just supinated? youre arms are spinated in a regular fly.

    man i thought you meant pronated earlier cause that would get the front delts out and that was your purpose.

    suppinated is palms up --> regular flys
    Just like a regular fly, but with the palms fully supinated.

    Regular flyes, 99/100 guys have their palms facing inward, toward each other. Usually slightly supinated at the start, then not supinated at all. Most guys. You may do them differently, but you'd be the exception to the rule.

    This variation is most easily done with a cable crossover machine, laying on a bench on the middle with the pulleys at bench height. You can use any handles that are comfortable, and lead with your elbows. Most flyes you'd do the "hug the tree motion". Not these. These, you finish the motion with your lower arms parallel to each other. This removes the medial delt almost completely, and puts the anterior delt in a position where it really can't help much. Consequently, you don't need to use much weight.

    You cannot do these with DBs. You MUST keep the palms fully supinated the whole time. It's essential. But the movement hits the pecs in a way unlike anything most guys have ever felt. You can do them VERY light - 10-20# max, and you'll feel your chest in a whole new light.

    But having the palms pronated would still allow anterior and medial delt recruitment. You'd still get pecs, of course, too.

    Anyway, I'm always interested in potential chronic issues, but I didn't really see a problem with this one.
    These were not my idea. A trainer in Utah I know advocates a number of interesting movements to isolate previously un-isolatable groups (lats, pecs), and damned if they don't work. Not that we should ONLY be isolating - just a movement to augment a chest routine. Try it - if you do it right, you'll be amazed.

    Any thoughts?

  8. ok lets get this straight
    suppination happens in the elbow
    external rotation happens in the shoulder
    so suppiantion in terms of flys is meaningless if you want to be exact
    the question is if your shoulder is externaly rotated (you can answer by "palms facing X")

  9. Quote Originally Posted by judge-mental
    ok lets get this straight
    suppination happens in the elbow
    external rotation happens in the shoulder
    so suppiantion in terms of flys is meaningless if you want to be exact
    the question is if your shoulder is externaly rotated (you can answer by "palms facing X")
    Yes, supination happens at the elbows, but it's evidenced by the postion of the palms, so I reference the palms. But supination, when full, DOES impact the upper arm slightly. At least, it slightly turns my upper arm along with my lower arm. Yours, too, I would imagine.

    In terms of the adduction of the arm, the supination has little overall impact, but it changes the physiology of the ability of the deltoids to contribute to the motion, since they're now at a mechanical disadvantage. Much like when the biceps brachii takes a back seat during hammer curls (with the palm mostly or totally pronated). It just can't help as much as with the pronation as it can with the palms supinated. Same thing here, but it pulls the deltoids out of the mix.

    Anyway, my point is simply that with the supination, you decrease the ability of the delts to help. And THAT, in turn, amps up the pec impact.

    Know what I mean?

    Truly not trying to be argumentative - I love this stuff, and I'm thinking out loud as much as I am typing it out.

  10. so are you palms facing each other? facing your head? your legs?...

    still didnt get it.

    external or internal rotation...

  11. Quote Originally Posted by judge-mental
    so are you palms facing each other? facing your head? your legs?...

    still didnt get it.

    external or internal rotation...
    In the normal pec fly position, but supinated, so palms facing my "up", my head.

    And the flexion isn't a rotation - it's just adduction. Just like a traditional pec fly.

  12. damn you'd flunk any biomecanics course. your shoulder is maximaly externaly rotated

    anyway I got you. you dont get the deltoid out, you just make it work harder.

    I don't want to continue beating this to death. if your going straight sidewais I see no injury in the horizon but imbalance looming

    just do a regular fly

  13. Quote Originally Posted by judge-mental
    damn you'd flunk any biomecanics course. your shoulder is maximaly externaly rotated

    anyway I got you. you dont get the deltoid out, you just make it work harder.

    I don't want to continue beating this to death. if your going straight sidewais I see no injury in the horizon but imbalance looming

    just do a regular fly
    WTF.

    You're misunderstanding what I'm saying about the rotation - of course you start the motion in an externally rotated position, but you don't internally rotate it at all during the flexion/extension. That's why I'm saying there's no rotation. But I appreciate your taking the time to throw out the insult anyway.

    Whatever, man. Sorry to have bothered you.

  14. hmmm
    that was in a freindly manner, because I didnt seem to get to you. take it easy.

    lets go over anatomy:
    horizontal adductors (agonists in flys) - anterior delt, pec
    external rotation in shoulder - both relatively being( as they are internal rotators) stretched and in a dissadvantage. thus both work harder.

    suppination and external rotation go hand in hand but do not equal each other.

  15. I like doing dumbells on a swiss ball You need to really work hard to stabilize those bitches, and it hits your chest REALLY hard.

  16. i hear ya bro,if not carefull the 1st time you do these you will end up with a dumbbell in your face.excellent for stablizer work.

  17. meh, i benched for yrs, and never really got a huge chest. I did gain a lot of strength though.
    But, when i started doing bench cable cross overs, and flat dumbell press/inclined dumbell presses, my chest just started kinda growing over a period...really impressive.
    I'd rather those than barbell benches any day of the week...
    ---The internet is the father of the electronic lynch-mob---
  18. ItriedtoripoffBobosonowIamgonehaveaniceday
    ItriedtoripoffBobosonowIamgonehaveaniceday's Avatar

    MaNiaK flyes....about to hit the hay so I might come on here tomorrow to explain but I explain in detail in my pic section and on NP.com in the exercise forum!

  19. when in your chest workout should you do weighted dips

  20. Quote Originally Posted by nolinenowait
    when in your chest workout should you do weighted dips
    i like doing them towards the end. incline > flat/decline > dips > flys

  21. I really like Weighted Dips, leaning forward to isolate more on the chest. It also will help you get your max up on the bench press. Just my 2c

  22. i think it all works you should just change your routine every 2 months

  23. Ha boy this is an old thread. Kinda funny the first two posters are both banned from anabolicminds LOL

  24. This thread autobumps all the damn time...WTF?

  25. its b/c people keep voting
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Best overall chest workout for max pec
    By bighulksmash in forum Training Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-13-2015, 12:04 PM
  2. Weird chest development
    By Distilled Water in forum Training Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-29-2008, 05:16 PM
  3. Best Books for developing training programs?
    By Mr.50 in forum Training Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-28-2006, 06:23 PM
  4. Replies: 52
    Last Post: 08-31-2006, 10:25 AM
  5. What is the best, overall back exercise.
    By stuart harlin in forum Training Forum
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 10-22-2004, 09:09 PM
Log in
Log in