**** these ****ing squats.......****

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  1. **** these ****ing squats.......****

    That's it. I've had it. These goddamn squats are ****ing ridiculous. I've been up and down with the same weight for the past year. No matter what the hell I take, no matter how much weight I gain, I can't seem to gain any strength or size in my legs. A year ago, I got up to 425lbs for 6 reps, the next week I came back and got the same weight for 2 reps. So, I figured I'd go down a little to 385 on the next week, got 2 of those, and ended up going back down to 355. Worked my way back up to 415lbs and the same thing happened. This has been going on religiously for the past year. Up and down, up and down. I've tried low reps, high reps, high/low together, supersets, dropsets, all to no avail. I always get to the same weight and go back down only to work back up to the exact same weight, and BAM, start over.

    I'm definately eating enough. I get around 5000 cals per day, with around 500 grams of protein a day. I've cut back on cardio to see if that helps, but of course that would be too simple, doesn't work either. Meanwhile, my bench is about to pass my squat and my deadlift is 455 x 3 reps. Here's my current leg routine:
    Squats: 2 warmups, 3 working sets of 6 reps.
    Leg Press: 4 sets of 12 reps
    Leg extensions: 3 sets of 10 reps
    Leg curls: 3 sets of 10 reps
    Seated calves: 3 max sets
    Hack squat calves : 3 max sets

    Like I said, I've tried every variation that I know of. I've thrown in hack squats before but it justs hurts my knees more than anything. If any of you have any suggestions, please throw them my way. It's pretty damn embarassing when my bench is almost the same as my squat. And my arms are 3" bigger than my calves.

  2. front squats maybe? jump squats (take a trap bar with your feet inside, explode up and jump at the top of the movement)? could be partially mental...do you use a spotter? if you do, the second you get to 425lbs, jump up to 450lbs and use a spotter...that's all I can think of that might help

  3. Just an idea, but have you tried lowering the volume? What if you dropped the presses for 4-6 weeks to focus on your squat?

  4. Beezle, that seems like a hell of a lot of volume. Do you ever do 20-reppers? They might not be the answer for everybody, but they help me a lot as far as weight progression goes. I'm assuming you know how to perform them. I usually do them every other week, and add 5 lbs each session, so thats a 10 lb increase each month. Doesn't sound like much, but time goes by very quickly.

    Aside from that, whenever there is a problem, you NEED to switch things up one way or another. Maybe take a week off to rest up and think about a solution.

  5. dude i think it is mental..
    you probably are scared of the weight, like a little girly man with girly muskels.

    just trying to pump you up. you have to think that you own it, maybe speed up your descent using a good spotter, do you squat off a rack or in amonolift. if you have catches to catch you when you fail. what about bar position on your back instead of traps.

    try a sky rocket routine:

    w/u for 3 sets of 8

    take your time.

    then do
    225 for 5
    275 for 1
    315 for 1
    365 for 1
    405 for 1
    then go 10 lbs increments until you pr.
    that way all you have to concentrate on is one rep. at least 3-4 min rest between sets
    but for leg size i suggest 20reppers. it will push your mental envelope.

  6. no, i haven't tried it. looks pretty damn confusing. never even heard of some **** like that. i've been going as heavy as possible for as long as i can remember. they don't have boxes for squating in the gyms around here but it looks like i could work around that.

    yes, i did 20 rep squats for a few months and my strength stayed the same. my quads actually got smaller.

  7. This seems to happen to me with heavy curls. I go up in strength and then for whatever reason I lose strength and I have to build it back up again. It's like a yoyo effect.

    Recently I also had this problem with my delts, so I actually upped the volume and did REALLY high ass reps; just one excercise with about say five sets of 25-30 reps. Still went to failure on the last set and growth seems to be occuring again. I think every so often it's good to Overtrain yourself in order to break through a plateau. It's just a part of the rule "change it up."

    Anything that you can possibly think of to switch up the routine each week, even just the smallest things like adding a static on one set and then doin' negatives for something else. Just keep your body guessing and it will continue to shock itself into more growth.

    Did you try that fascia stretching program I gave you?

  8. Tried it a few times. ****ing hurts but something must have worked for my biceps. I had been stuck at the same weight for a while with the same yo-yo effect you talked about. Now, I've passed my former weight by 20lbs on barbell curl and still climbing. Sizes are the same everywhere but strength is in a constant climb for all upper body. Never did thank you for that, so thanks.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by kelsey
    dude i think it is mental..
    you probably are scared of the weight, like a little girly man with girly muskels.

    just trying to pump you up. you have to think that you own it, maybe speed up your descent using a good spotter, do you squat off a rack or in amonolift. if you have catches to catch you when you fail. what about bar position on your back instead of traps.

    try a sky rocket routine:

    w/u for 3 sets of 8

    take your time.

    then do
    225 for 5
    275 for 1
    315 for 1
    365 for 1
    405 for 1
    then go 10 lbs increments until you pr.
    that way all you have to concentrate on is one rep. at least 3-4 min rest between sets
    but for leg size i suggest 20reppers. it will push your mental envelope.

    hmmm, this sounds doable. haven't maxed out in a while, thought it was a waste of time if you're not getting in a good set. 20 reppers don't do **** except force me to make some rocky balboa faces. didn't notice any change during that time period.

  10. If I were you, I would spend a good 4 weeks doing drop sets and circuits until you puke. Throw in walking lunges too. Then go back and work your way up on heavy squats. You will be sore as **** and shake that tree hard. IMO you have to mix it up just prior to plateauing to keep the gains going.

  11. Ok, that sounds good too. I've tried drop sets with squats but it didn't really do anything out of the ordinary. Haven't tried walking lunges though. I could try that with dumbbells, might put a good hurting on me. I just don't get why my upper body responds well with the same program I've been using since the start and lower body doesn't respond to anything. I'll give it a shot though. What's the worst that can happen? Stay the same weight? Been there, done that.

  12. Its very possible that you aren't a squat-guy. You say you've been leg pressing as well, how has that been going?

    My flat BB bench sucks no matter what I do, so rather than feel ****ty about its lack of progress, I decided to see if I am a dip-guy, and what do ya know?! Dips are progressing!

  13. The squat workout that kelsey suggested works for building
    great one rep power for sure. He and i did that routine for
    about 3-4 weeks and made hella gains in 1 rep maxes setting
    new PR's everytime in the gym.
    We would usually find a weight that we felt confortable with
    in the 6-8 rep range, nothing taxing, usually around 315-335
    and do 3 sets to get the juices flowing. Then we would start
    popping singles going in 10-20lbs jumps.
    First workout i singled 415 for a PR. Previous was 405. After
    we hit the squats we hit the leg presses. By this time you are
    warmed up from the squats, so we started with around 400lbs
    and we hit a set of 20 which made us want to puke. Then we
    upped the weight to 600, and went to failure which was 10-12
    reps. THen to completely destroy the legs with a max out
    effort we loaded 800 and hit 4-6 reps balls to the walls. Mind
    you we are not on gear.
    4 days later we hit the same routine again this time upping our
    weight from 335 to 365 for 6-8 reps, then starting the weight
    progression up to 1 rep failure. I ended with 445 and missing
    455 by a butt hair.
    4 days later we cut the 6-8 reps sets and did progressions
    starting with 345 singles,jumping to 385, 405, 425, 455 PR,
    475PR,485,495,510, and missing 530 by inches.AND this is not
    some HALF REP BULL****, ASS to the ground contest form.
    I also do the same routine for deadlifts. Kelsey and i picked
    this up from an old Olympic lifter in the gym who used this
    system for years. He's 56 and still benches 410 without a shirt
    and pulls and squats 600.
    The idea on this was to try and set a new personal record
    everytime you hit the gym, even if its 1 freaking lb.
    OH and Kelsey change the name of your routine, Skyrocket
    sounds too gay

  14. How about getting rid of leg curls and direct hamstring work. I think deadlifts and squats are hitting the hamstrings hard enough, and since they're performed on different days they're being worked twice a week.

  15. skyrocket schmyrocket, whatever ...

    beez, check this out, i was thinking, you could have a stabilizer weakness. someting in the rear chain, abducter, adducter, one weaker leg.youd be suprised how much your weaker leg would hold you back in making gains. I had a bad bar position high on my traps, dropped it down by widening my grip, my old trap mounted max was 385, just by dropping the bar i doubled 405 ass to the grass.
    i am not strong by ant stretch of the imagination,
    i am alot stronger than i was then...due to assistance work.

    try doing one leg hip sleds, i did and i found a major weak spot my whole left leg, punish it til it grows and balance is restored.

    i am tellin you, not because i am running a special on sleds,
    but because draggin a freakin sled works.

    first time i dragged one for the first time in my life ,due to lifting , i lost my quiznos. my rear chain has been getting better ever since.

    if you dont have access to one pm me.

  16. This has been going on religiously for the past year. Up and down, up and down. I've tried low reps, high reps, high/low together, supersets, dropsets, all to no avail. I always get to the same weight and go back down only to work back up to the exact same weight, and BAM, start over.
    Damn that is depressing, kudos for hanging in there, but when you stop gaining strength you have got to change something up big time, don't wait a year to do it either I know how that feels

    Sounds to me like you may have been borderline overtraining, squats as you know really take a toll on your recovery. Have you tried lower frequency and higher intensity? Have you taken a week or two completely off, eaten your ass off and restarted refreshed?
    Taking time off from the gym can be agonizing but sometimes it is the only thing that will get you moving forward again.

    You mention your other lifts have not been suffering however, squats involve the lower back to a high degree especially if you go deep The lower back takes longer to recover from training stress than any other muscle, this can lead your lower back to become weaker and weaker, like a weak link in a chain your squat will suffer as a result.

    I am not trying to sound like a know it all, I only want to help you out, I have been where you are and I feel you on this issue. Don't blame the squat my friend, the squat although not magic (that was for you bobo ) is still a very good core exercise and your legs will get bigger as you grow stronger in the hypertrophy rep ranges it is as simple as that.

    BTW you are a marine right, I was an MP in the 10th mountain division and we did a 6 mile run EOD, this alone made squatting damn near impossible for me as it was about friggen impossible to hang in there after a session I know you jarheads run your asses off.

    My legs were fried basically all week long just from that damn running at 265 lbs. This could be a factor as well. Hang in there and good luck.

  17. i'd drop the leg extension, leg curl, and one of the calf exercises. just shift that volume to the other exercises youre already doing.

    you should also be squatting more than one day a week, if you aren't already. one day heavy the other light/speed.

    why not try 5x5 for squat? once you can get all 5 sets w/ 5 GOOD reps increase weight. don't try to rush it.

    keep us posted

  18. you say you only do two warm up sets.. try googling misc.fitness.weights for warmups. there were a few really good threads on warming up.

    heres one i thought was pretty good:


    esp read the posts by "keith hobman", "wayne hill" and of "lyle mcdonald"

  19. Alrighty, I think I might have to try some of these ideas. aic and kelsey, I like the way that sounds. I'll start that on the next leg day.

    I generally do legs every 5 days, you think that is enough?

    Yeah, I've been reading the "magical" squats thread also, pretty entertaining to watch em go at it. Yeah, I'm a marine but since I'm so close to getting out, I'm basically on my own program, meaning I don't run for those ungodly distances. I can definately understand where you're coming from though with running on 265lbs. Not the easiest task in the world.

    It doesn't feel like my hamstrings are the problem in the movement, feels like quads. About a month ago, for a change, I started putting 5lb plates under my heels and I can now go parallel without any pain to my knees.

    I hope I'm a squat guy. As bad as they hurt, I still want to have a big squat. As for leg presses, when I was doing 425lbs squats, I was getting 960lbs on leg press. Very recently, I changed my leg press to 4 sets of 12 reps, and the weight has dropped down a bit but I feel like it works better.

    These are some good suggestions fellas. Keep em coming. There just may be hope for me.

  20. many times when strenhth levels stagnate you NEED to drop the volume for a while to get the weight to go up. Drop the extranious **** and just do the squats or good morning or stiff legs and maybe a bit of leg pressing. Remember as much as we all think of squats as a quad movement, it is promarily your backside that moves the weight when squatting.

    Iron Addict

  21. beez, i would try upping the frequency (note i said frequency, not volume)

    this helps with neurosynaptic facilitation, among other things

    try, for example, squatting EVERY workout

    i raised my squats significantly doing this, training Olympic lifter style

    you need not do more weekly volume. same # of sets per week, but more frequency (squats every workout day), less volume per squat session

    two other things: 1 - try walkouts with a heavier weight 10-20% more. this helps both psychologically and physiologically.

    also, try to work within prilepin's table.

    (look it up)

    do NOT lift maximally every workout

    workout submaximal weights, with maximal acceleration, and i am also a fan of amny westside techniques as well

  22. Quote Originally Posted by jjjd
    beez, i would try upping the frequency (note i said frequency, not volume)

    wow, we agree with something...

  23. well, yes. btw, classic "freebase" is not the same as crack. both are "base" forms of cocaine (vs. powder cocaine, which is cocaine hydrochloride) which allow them to be smoked. however, FREEbase (i have never heard anybody refer to crack as FREEbase, i have heard it referred to as "base") is prepared via ether, which is highly flammable. crack is prepared using plain baking soda, and does not have the ignition risk. yes, they are both "base" forms of cocaine, and i never claimed otherwise.

    this is why crack became the popular street option of cocaine. all the quick rush of freebase without the prep time, fire risk, and much more marketable in discrete crack rocks for $5 a rock or so.

    not that I'm bringing THAT up again

    also, i am not saying that ANY drug is evil (although crystal meth comes close). i am saying that trying to make an EQUIVALENCE between drugs like steroids, marijuana, etc. that have a low potential for abuse, very little psychopathology associated with same, and NO LD50 value (look it up) and drugs like crack or meth is problematic.

    they are not EQUIVALENT. in the same way that a mild AAS like primo is less problematic than 3 50 mg anadrols a day...

    or something.. :l

    wait, were we talking about squats?

    i hope i don't get in trouble for bringing that up again.

  24. where the **** did that come from?

  25. IA,
    Do you think jjjd's idea sounds like a winner? I'll try just squats for a while and see what happens, but at what frequency do you recommend?

    If I do squats every workout, will I need to include a separate leg day or will squats each workout suffice?

  26. fwiw, i disagree frequently with IA. no offense to IA, but I don't appreciate you asking him if my advice sounds like a winner. we have radically different training concepts and frequently disagree. he has his theories/advice. i have mine

  27. I'm asking for his opinion of your suggestion. IA has been around the block more than a few times and I'd like to see what he has to say about it. It wasn't meant as an insult to you or your theories, just wanted a second opinion on it. Jeez, for a testosterone filled forum, there's a lot of picky guys here.

  28. i just don't think his "guru" status is justified base on the advice he gives, which i often take serious issue with... but that's my OPINION. back to our regulary scheduled squat issue now...

    as for your question about a "seperate leg day" if you are squatting every workout day...


    by squatting every day, as an alternate methodology, you are getting away from the classic bodybuilder paradigm (not as frequently seen among strength athletes) of a "leg day", a "back day" etc.

    generally speaking, strength athletes work LIFTS, not bodyparts, and i am suggesting you incorporate this paradigm and subsequent training methodology at least as a trial alternate since what you are doing is apparently NOT working right now.

    now, I realize that hypertrophy response is at least part of your desire (you appear to want both strength and size increases) but if you are going to do this program, you need to first accept a somewhat different paradig than having a "leg day"

    EVERY day will be leg day, and NO day will be "leg day" if you see what I am saying.

    you will be getting away from the concept of "blasting' a bodypart and then waiting the Weider (tm) mandated waiting period of 1 week before you "hit it" again

    you will realize that a bodypart does not have to be fresh or recovered for you to work it.

    you WILL be "hitting" your legs when your legs are still sore from your previous day's squats.

    this is NOT necessarily a bad thing. often, it's a good thing, although not within many BBers understanding

    you will NOT (and i need to emphasize this) be lifting maximally every workout.

    one of the myths you will need to dispel is that you need to work progressively heavier weights on each workout, to gain strength. iow, that if you did 405 for 4 on one day, on your next workout, you need to do either 405 for 5 or 415 for 4 to gain strength

    over time, you will of course have to increase loading to increase strength. it does not therefore follow that you need to do this each workout.

    you will be incorporating a more "wavy" approach to increased loading

    you will be working different aspects of the lift (louie simmons likes this - and he takes it from the russians) for example, doing 5 sets of 3 at 80% of max one day, and maybe 8 sets of 2 at 65% of max the next (using short rest intervals and compensatory acceleration)

    you will be (to quote pavel, and i think pavel is a somewhat of a putz, but he is right on this) "greasing the synaptic" groove.

  29. ok, we disagree on recreational drugs.. and i think there was some misconstruing of what was being said.. but i'm not going to go into that again because it went nowhere.

    beelz.. what do you mean a seperate leg day? i don't really understand what you're asking. if you want to increase squat poundages, squat. if you squat every workout.. it's very important that you don't squat heavy everytime. you could do something similar to the korte squat program..

    monday 5-8x5 60% squat, wednesday 80% squat singles, friday 5-8x5 60% squat..

    increase wednesdays weight by 5% each week.. decrease sets as needed. rinse, repeat.

    the percentages are based on your goal. so if you can't 1rm 415 right now make that your goal.

    IIRC, theres also a phase where you lift very light for a month... i think this is to avoid getting burnt out from this program... I used this w/ success w/o doing the "light" cycle, maybe i would have done better if I had done it

  30. i don't think we disagree as much as you were assuming i was saying things that i didn't say. i never SAID that a given drug was "evil". i never said that any given drug should or should not be legal.

    i merely said that, based on PHARMACOLOGICAL evidence that I can support with extensive knowledge and experience, that there are very distinct differences between strongly addictive, psychoactive, and sometimes life threatening substances such as crystal meth and crack cocaine vs. substances such as MJ or Steroids.

    that one does not have to minimize the dangers of a given drug in order to argue that it should or should not be legal, or given pharmacological equivalence to another drug

    anybody with even basic knowledge of psychology, criminology, pharmacology, etc. for example knows that PCP is a whole other thing than, for example, marijuana or steroids.

    that is all i am saying. just because i disagree with the thrust of the "war on drugs' does not mean i will downplay evidence of the various (and very disparate) dangers of various illegal (and legal) drugs for the purposes of making a point

    and that is, contrary to your assumptions about my position, tangential as to whether i think a given drug is "evil" or should be illegal.

    for example, i find much of false pseudoscience surrounding many MJ legalization advocates to be equally as reprehensible as the false pseudoscience surrounding many MJ legalization opponents. it is equally wrong to misrepresent science, just to try to advocate a position

    and if you SERIOUSLY think that FREEBASE (which is prepared using ether) is not a flammable substance, then you are simply ignorant of drug prep methods

    that was my main point

    Freebase is, as richard pryor so well demonstrated, a fire hazard. crack, which is simply cocaine hydrochloride prepared with baking soda, water, and low heat to create a base smokable cocaine, is NOT flammable


    but no hard feelings.

    i like some of korte's principles btw.

    i do know several people who tried korte DID lose size (mostly in the arms), but it is a valid strength training methodology.

    for somebody who wants both size and strength, as the original poster claims, I owuld prefer a more vershashansky'esque prgram, for what it's worth

  31. Quote Originally Posted by jjjd
    i don't think we disagree as much as you were assuming i was saying things that i didn't say...

    HEY, it's over! i'm not arguing about this anymore on this forum, it's not the place..

  32. try, for example, squatting EVERY workout
    I am going to go on record as saying this is most likely the very last thing he should do

    You have your opinion, I have mine take no offense, he can certainally try a few different ideas here and see how they pan out for him.

    You guys and your crack discussion makes me laugh find something better to argue about two smart individuals arguing over crack makes my head hurt.

  33. why?

    squatting in the conventional "blast it and then let it recover for a week" bber style is NOT working for him

    so, an alternative methodology is worth trying

    and squatting every workout WORKS for literally HUNDREDS of thousands of athletes worldwide

    why should he be any different?

    we all have our opinions. i am not even saying mine is the best. i am saying it is an option, and it is radically different enough from his current protocol which he admits is NOT working, such that it is worth a try

    it also has N=hundreds of thousands of successful trials to back it up, as well as science

  34. http://www.dynamic-eleiko.com/sporti...ews/nv005.html

    "Taranenko: I train six days per week: three-times per day for three days, for a total of six (6) hours per day and twice-a-day, for the other three days, for a total of four (4) hours each day."

    "I usually squat every day, sometimes more than once-a-day. My best back squat is 380 kg (837 lbs). But this is with a two-second pause at the bottom."

    Unbelievable strength.

    You're after strength bud, particularly in the squat, so why don't you drop the outdated, incorrect Weider methodologies (which ironically, are not even suited very well to bodybuilding itself--see HST), and try something like the Smolov squat program?

  35. exactly.

    fwiw, i am not saying that a taranenko or bulgarian influenced (bulgarians often squat up to 3X a DAY and workout 6 days a week or so), since systems like that are self-selecting. those that can't handle the volume/loading, simply drop out

    HOWEVER, you are very correct in that people are so into their "weider paradigm" that they simply can't see that you can get great results from squatting every workout (or even every day) and make good gains in both strength and size

    the fundamental point is this. CONVENTIONAL "blast it and let it recover" training is NOT working for him. thus, imo, he should try something like we are recommending

  36. I usually squat every day, sometimes more than once-a-day. My best back squat is 380 kg (837 lbs). But this is with a two-second pause at the bottom."
    I am not aware of what volume he is doing but it must be like basically a single set, two at most of a heavy single or double, and certainally not to failure. This is a completely strength oriented program right? I will check that link out debasser so I can become educated on this approach.

    I agree weider is an idiot and so are his training ideas. I personally use DC's training, twisted a bit to suit me personally and hit each bodypart 3x in a 9 day period with sufficiently low volume to avoid overtraining but with enough intensity to stimulate growth. I throw extra recovery time in as needed.

    squatting in the conventional "blast it and then let it recover for a week" bber style is NOT working for him
    I actually agree with you on this point and that is not what I was suggesting but I can see how it could be taken that way since I was so vague. I recommended the week or two off only to ensure he was no longer in an overtrained state. I could probably get a good idea of that just by getting a good look at him or going through a workout with him. When someone is cronically overtrained it is usually pretty obvious to the trained eye.

    I would suggest lowering the volume and increasing the intensity, frequency would be an individual thing depending on how good of a diet, supplementation, his recoverability etc, but as frequent as possible.

    I personally have become very adept at "reading" my body and I just know when it is time to hit it again I can feel it.
    I think we are kinda on the same page here although if I were to squat everyday I would be a cripple within a week. But I am sure his methods must differ from mine.
    I do think a week is too long to wait before rehitting a bodypart, the real magic (hate to use this term but it applies here) is knowing your sweet spot as far as frequency goes.

    When I became "aware" if you will of my body my gains really started to speed up and so will his. I am glad this has not turned into a slam the squat thread given the title of the post. It is obvious that all here know and appreciate the value of the squat and that makes me much more confident in the opinions listed here and the "intelligence" of this thread in general.

    I have to add before reading up on debassers link that as of now, until convinced otherwise I do not believe it is possible to squat every day, much less twice a day if your goal is hypertrophy. Strength training is a whole other animal and I know lots of guys that can squat a building but look like ****, no thanks on that.

  37. jjjd,
    Cool, I'll give it a whirl. If I had to choose a goal, I would choose leg mass for now, due to it having such a size difference from upper body. Either way, I haven't gained **** from my methods so I'll give it a try. Starting today actually. How's this sound:
    monday squat - 6 sets of 2 rep (85%)
    wednes squat - 4 sets of 10 rep (60%)
    friday squat - 5 sets of 5 reps (70%)
    Each time changing weights to appropriate percentage of my max.

    I don't believe I'm overtrained because wouldn't that correlate with other lifts suffering also? Not the case here, squat isn't really suffering either (persay), just not changing. My workout routine is I work out EOD, chest/tris, shoulders/back, legs/bi's. So, incorporating squats each workout would still mean I have a day off in between each squat day so it shouldn't be too bad.

  38. This is a little off topic, but after reading this, I wanna see what you guys think, jjjd, bigmark, IA, Bobo, ect. If you were happy with your current size at the moment, what would happen if you were to switch your training protocol to a pure strength training/ neural recruitment program for a period of say 8 weeks just to get your lifts up? Assuming diet and supplementation are the same, would you be likely to lose a lot of size or hardness? How bout with the aid of a kickass androgen cycle? Could you just flip a switch to a pure strength program and hope to keep size? Assuming you could, you would then be a lot stronger in your major lifts to reassume whatever bodybuilding program that you know works for you, and the stength gains made should then lead to increased hypertrophy, right? I am aware of periodization, just wanna get you guys' take on something like this.

  39. If you were happy with your current size at the moment
    First of all, this will never happen no matter how big I get but I will play along

    I have to admit I have wondered this myself, it would seem to me that it should work to build up some strength and set you up for more gains when you returned to hypertrophy training. With the use of an androgen I doubt you would lose any real size but I sure can't say for certain. I think a bigger concern would be to make sure you do not get injured during this period of super heavy strength training or you will def be in trouble. It is much harder to maintain form on the big 3 when you pile on the weight quickly one bad move and you could tear a cuff, or a pec or whatever.

    Now that I think of it a few years ago I tried this with squats and ended up tearing a quadracep, it was a very minor tear, but it looked nasty and took me 4 mos to get back to where I was before. I was not using bad form and I was warm, I had never had an injury before that somehow I just was not used to the heavy weight.

    I am sure this has been tried before, I bet someone here has done it, there has to be a study or write up on this somewhere. Like I said I have also thought about it, but as of now since I am on a comeback and well below my max strength I am still gaining well in both strength and size but would try it again when my strength gains stall.

    Why don't you give it a go and let us know how it works out for you, you seem to be up for trying new things

    I'll add one more thing, most of us (not all I know) are somewhat strangers to strength training it is very different (I know you know this just making a point). I'd do some research into westside training, know what you are going to do before you do it. Looking back this is probably why I got hurt. When I was younger I used to think I knew it all just because I was one of the biggest guys in town. I was wrong, I figured I have been squatting for years I have this covered lol. After I got hurt I did some research and the way they do the big 3 is much different that your typical bb'er.
    Last edited by bigmark1972; 07-05-2004 at 01:15 PM.


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