**** these fucking squats.......****

[Beelzebub]

I had to modify it a tad. For the first 2 weeks, I was doing squats every workout but then things starting hurting, so I did a modified IA/jjjd workout. I'm doing just one leg day a week with just squats and nothing else (except calves). And for the past 2 weeks, I've been doing sets of 2 reps, and I'm up to 455lbs pretty easy. 405 feels like a joke now where as it felt back breaking before. So, basically, I'm happy as hell. Hopefully, the gains will continue as I'd like to get 495 for 2 reps. If it starts to slow down, I'll change the rep scheme up, seems to be the answer. Thanks for asking bro. :thumbsup:

 

[bigmark1972]

I suspected that would be too much frequency, thats why I asked. I am glad to hear you are making progress.

 

[iron addict]

Ahh, who would have thought :thumbsup:

Iron Addict

 

[jjjd]

bigmark1972, frequency means nothing without considering volume

if one, for instance, normally does 9 sets of squats at 80% using compensatory acceleration for triples. then one could do 3 sets of squats at 80% using compensatory acceleration for triples, 3 times per week

TRIPLE the frequency, but EQUAL the loading

 

[iron addict]

Except for high caliber Olympic lifters, few in the iron game squat 3x a week, and there is a good reason for that.

Iron Addict

 

[bigmark1972]

bigmark1972, frequency means nothing without considering volume

Well...... yes I can't argue that and I'm not.

I am of the opinion (and just my opinion based on my personal experience) that the intensity required to stimulate growth warrants a certain volume/frequency ratio if you will.

For example you could squat every day 10 sets of 10 rep sets at 5% max and accomplish nothing but wasting time and burning some calories. You could also do 2 sets of 2 reps at a very high % of 1 rep max every day and you may get very strong, but you will not get very big. I don't think it's fair to compare strength training and training for hypertrophy as they are just so vastly different.

I personally don't like to see do 60% of this and then 73.65% of that.

I myself like to hit it 100% every single time and hit it again as soon as I feel recovered and add weight the next time.

I do one set of rest pause squats ass to ground after my warm ups and stretches and thats it. I think this one set if done correctly is more than enough to stimulate growth.
If my numbers stop climbing I have to take a step back and try to pinpoint where the problem is and correct it.

Perhaps I need to switch rep ranges, exercises, nutrition, volume, etc, etc, etc. The one thing I do not like to change is intensity, it has to be 100% for me because this is the only way I can judge progress and I just feel it's the best way to stimulate growth.

Basically for me the best way I grow, and I learned this the hard way :frustrate is to train the minimal amount of time (volume) and cause the most stimulation for hypertrophy, that is my goal. I let my body decide the (frequency). If my body tells me it needs an extra day off, I give it one, if I am ready to go I'll c ya at the gym.

I think that between every 3 and no more than 5 days a muscle should be re-trained. I have found that for me this is the "sweet spot" if you will. I adjust my workouts somewhat to fit around this. Some muscles like biceps, I need to do a bit more work with to feel I have done the job with them.

I am not trying to sound like a know it all, and I am not telling you you are wrong because you are not. There are thousands of ways to train, I personally find this subject very interresting.

One thing that always struck me as funny was arnold talking about his 4 hour a day gym sessions. I would have liked to have been there to see how much of this time was actually spent working out and how much of it was working on posing, tanning, bullshiting, etc. I don't care who you are, or what drugs you take, no one can train at any appreciable intensity level for 4 hours a day on any kind of extended basis and look like he did. I think he is one of the best there has ever been. If you ever need a good laugh read his bodybuilding encyclopedia and pay special attention to the advanced training chapters.

 

[iron addict]

Well stated Mark.

Iron Addict

 

[Beelzebub]

Yeah, I read his advanced training techniques, it looked insane. His level 1 looks pretty good, but I wouldn't call it level 1.

 

[iron addict]

That is a BIG problem with genetic freaks on LOTS of gear that have zero experience training those with less than great genetics. They erroneously believe that since it worked for them anyone can do the same. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Iron Addict

 

[Debaser]

Beezelbub you exclaimed that after doing the three-times-a-week squatting, "things were hurting." Maybe you could elaborate?

Now that would point out to me either or both of two things:

1. Dysfunction of some kind, likely stemming from a pelvic tilt.
2. Errors in form.

Both of which are correctable.

 

[Beelzebub]

My form is always the same and I've even had more experience guys examine my squat as I perform it. Not a problem there. However, the pain was mostly in my knees and my lower back was starting to feel tight all the time, not just muscle tight either. As soon as I switched to squats once a week, the problem went away. Pretty obvious to me.

 

[bigmark1972]

and my lower back was starting to feel tight all the time, not just muscle tight either.

From my earlier post in this thread.

The lower back takes longer to recover from training stress than any other muscle, this can lead your lower back to become weaker and weaker, like a weak link in a chain your squat will suffer as a result.

Sorry, just I had to do that :think:

 

[roadrunner]

yep, I've noticed the same thing.

I could deadlift & do squats 3 times a week if my lower back would recover as fast as everything else

 

[Beelzebub]

roadrunner, just had to let you know that your avatar is now my desktop.

 

[jjjd]

"Except for high caliber Olympic lifters, few in the iron game squat 3x a week, and there is a good reason for that.

Iron Addict"

that is utter rubbish and empirically verified as false. first of all, i have worked out with many athletes (only a small minority of whom are anywhere NEAR high caliber Olympic lifters), and many of them squatted 3X (or 2 or 4 X a week).

you do NOT need to be a high caliber ol'er to benefit from squatting three times a week. i have seen 14 yr old moderately talented kids THRIVE on such a program. but it comes down to loading. if you think that every time (HIT addict rubbish) you go into the gym you need to lift more than you did last time, then this will not work

for reasons of neurosynaptic facilitation, rate coding, etc. all sorts of people can benefit from squatting three times a week. not to mention those doing the 20 rep squat program

i should also note i know many people (some of whom are FAR from gifted) who have gotten stronger using korte's 3*3 as well

i should note that DEADLIFTING several times a week is MUCH more problematic than squatting 3X a week, btw, in regards to the other poster's post

strength does not progress linearly, and the mind is the ULTIMATE "muscle" when it comes to moving weights. if you are so convinced that it will only work with the "genetically gifted" (which is a total bullshit copout), then it won't work. reference what i said about roger bannister and the 4 minute mile.

but.. you are simply wrong. i know DOZENS of people who have gotten much stronger (from as young as 10 yrs old up to mid 50's) from squatting 3X a week. NOT high caliber olympic lifters, just people willing to work hard, and not so close minded

 

[bigmark1972]

I'm with ya on that she is a hottie, nice BJ eyes.
I suddenly feel like I need a bath, more like a cold shower lol.

 

[iron addict]

JJD,

yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen a BUNCH of people attempt it myself and they all pretty much ended up where Beelzebub did. Using newbie kids is a great example (LMAO) ANYTHING will provide results with people in that category.

Yes, your protocol can work well for olympic lifters. Did you ever go to reason that not many people here are olympic lifters? Maybe your on the wrong board. OH, I know, Beelzebub, just didn't have the right mindset and thats why it didn't work. LMFAO.

Iron Addict

 

[Debaser]

There is no reason that the lower back should take "longer to recover." If it feels tight then there is an actual problem in this area. Pain in the knees as well are all pointing to an anterior pelvic tilt.

 

[Beelzebub]

The only reason I don't think it's something else is because as soon as I stopped squatting that often, there was no pain. I'm not saying jjjd's program is bad, it just didn't suit me too well. I'm sure plenty of people excel in such a program, I'm not one of them. jjjd, thanks for the advice, but I think all I really needed was to change the rep scheme up a bit. As Bobo's quote says "I'm keeping it simple unless the need for technecality arises."

 

[jjjd]

ia, i simply believe you do not know what you are talking about. squatting 3x a week is NOT just for OLers. it is for anybody. it is an alternative methodology, it is not "better" or worse than squatting one day a week. like ALL training methodologies, it has +'s and -'s.

how long did beez do this? what ? 1 week? 2 weeks? and that is supposed to be a definitive trial? try it for 3 months with appropriate loading modifications and get back to me.

btw, as i said, it is NOT just ol'ers. for example, refer to bill starr's programs for football players, etc.

 

[Beelzebub]

yeah, i might have done it wrong anyway. i was basically going all out each time on squats. like on the 10 rep day, i was just barely getting 10. same goes for the 5's and 2's.

 

[jjjd]

and that is EXACTLY what i said NOT to do. in order for this to work, you HAVE to get out of the weider/menzer'esque mentality of "blasting your legs" and/or working to failure

we are working on rate coding, neurosynaptic facilitation, "greasing the groove" etc.

if your 10 rep max is 300 lbs, then you should be doing sets of 10 at around 250 lbs, for instance

it's not a matter of applying the BBer paradigm, but just squatting with greater frequency.

 

[iron addict]

yeah, JJD, The guy's back who squats 300 for 10, and then instead does 250 x 10, will hardly feel the weight. You are the one who doesn't know what he is talking about. A HUGE percentage of the lifters out there just can't load their spinal culumn 3 days a week even with submaximal loads and not have their back complain, and complain loudly. Work with a lot of people over the yeas and you will experience this. Instead you can keep coming accross with your limited experience and handfulls of studies. I CANNOT load my back even submaximally 3x a week, and neither can a BUNCH of the people reading this. That many olympic lifters get away with it is irrelivant. Look in bodybuilding and powerlifting and see how many use this approach--they don't. I like Bill Starr, but most of his programs FLATTEN enetically average trainees and I have met a BUNCH over the years that suffered big-time injuries trying his ****. IF YOU ARE BROKEN YOU CAN'T TRAIN, OLYPIC LIFTERS INJURY RATE IS SO FAR ABOVE PL'ERS AN BB'S IT'S INSANE.

Iron Addict

 

[morfiend]

beelz, go lighter. give it a shot.

its no surprise you hurt your back, or have pain, when you're trying to squat heavy 3x a week. i have been in your situation before, and just got weaker. i didnt have any pain, but i couldn't lift as much. it's amazing the effect that light and/or speed work has on strength and how quickly you will see results with it.

the light work may even make your back feel better.

if you want strength in your squat, you NEED to squat more than one day a week. i'm sure there are studies on this, i don't care to look them up. don't quote me on this, but i think the bare minimum for strength gains is performing the exercise once every 4 days.

 

[Beelzebub]

ok, i'll give it a shot later on when this program starts to stalemate. don't fix what ain't broke.

 

[iron addict]

Anyone that needs a fucking study to tell them one way or another how many times to squat a week should NOT be giving advice. There are COUNTLESS BB's and powerlifters out there getting fantastic results squatting once or twice a week. A HUGE segment of the lifters out there squat once a week, including TONS of PL'ers that squat anywhere from 500-1000 lbs. One of the moderators on my board squats ONCE a week and has a 765 lb squat. He doesn't need a fucking study to tell him if it is working or not.

Iron Addict

 

[lifted]

Anyone that needs a fucking study to tell them one way or another how many times to squat a week should NOT be giving advice. There are COUNTLESS BB's and powerlifters out there getting fantastic results squatting once or twice a week. A HUGE segment of the lifters out there squat once a week, including TONS of PL'ers that squat anywhere from 500-1000 lbs. One of the moderators on my board squats ONCE a week and has a 765 lb squat. He doesn't need a fucking study to tell him if it is working or not.

Iron Addict

LMAO!!...I gotta agree here.....you'll only know your threshold by doing and trying different things and finding what works for you.

I simply could not imagine squatting more than once/week. Hell, when I was still doing them, I would even let them go at once every 9 days!! Just initiate the growth mechanism people, no need to make yourself vomit 3 times/week if you ain't got to... :thumbsup:

 

[bigmark1972]

There is no reason that the lower back should take "longer to recover." If it feels tight then there is an actual problem in this area. Pain in the knees as well are all pointing to an anterior pelvic tilt.

You guys and your reasons :blink: Some things are just the way they are and that's the way it is.

TONS of pro's and many experienced lifters feel the same way about the lower back. No studies or reasons needed other than YEARS of experience in the gym under the iron.

I think the reason yourself, jjjd, IA and myself to some extent are bumping heads is that you guys seem to be geared more towards strength training. Your theories would be much more accepted at a power lifting board, but this house is about getting big:twisted:

Rate coding, neurosynaptic facilitation, "greasing the groove" etc is foreign language to most here so yes you guys are going to get some resistance to this line of thinking. I personally know where you guys are coming from. I am sure this approach can help with "explosive strength", getting off the line (football) etc, I do not feel it is the best way to get big.

I just got done watching "ronnie coleman the unbelievable" this guy is a freak of nature. You won't see him doing any speed work, rate coding, etc. In fact his workout is quite simple, each bodypart 1x per week balls to the walls always adding weight where he can. On a side note this man eats more chicken that I thought was humanly possible, and yes I know he has more oil in his body than my car has in it's engine. He does point out in the video that he feels his deadlifts 1x per week have given him more of his gains than anything else.

Point me to any pro BB'er that trains consistantly as you guys are talking about that is worth mentioning. I don't care about powerlifters either so don't throw some russian or bulgarian name at me that no one will recognize.:think:

 

[morfiend]

Point me to any pro BB'er that trains consistantly as you guys are talking about that is worth mentioning. I don't care about powerlifters either so don't throw some russian or bulgarian name at me that no one will recognize.:think:

yeah, but beelz was asking about improving his squat #'ages

 

[bigmark1972]

OK then, In this respect I am somewhat in agreement with you. I was trying to determine what you guys were really trying to do for him. It has been somewhat unclear until just now, at least for me but I'm kinda thick (pun inteded) lol.

 

[iron addict]

if you want strength in your squat, you NEED to squat more than one day a week. i'm sure there are studies on this, i don't care to look them up. don't quote me on this, but i think the bare minimum for strength gains is performing the exercise once every 4 days.

Mark, I would quit responding to someone that makes a statment like this. The guy says you NEED to squat more than once a week for strength gains, which tells me he has seen NOTHING in real life, and then says he is sure there are STUDIES about it--LMFAO

Iron Addict

 

[morfiend]

Mark, I would quit responding to someone that makes a statment like this. The guy says you NEED to squat more than once a week for strength gains, which tells me he has seen NOTHING in real life, and then says he is sure there are STUDIES about it--LMFAO

Iron Addict

you need to calm the **** down w/ the personal attacks, add something productive to the thread. i can't believe this board still has someone as ignorant/arrogant as you for a "sponsor" on the exercise SCIENCE portion of the board. anecdotal accounts aren't very scientific -- are they?

it's well known that if you're going for more than piss-poor strength gains, you need to do the particular exercise more than 1 time per week.

i'm not trying to cop-out, it's just arguing with you is like talking to a brick-wall as I'm sure we've all seen in former threads. you need to have more of an open mind, as your bodybuilding training methods can't always be the best way to train. on top of that, trying to insult someone for giving another point of view isn't exactly the best way to argue your point.

 

[bigmark1972]

Mark, I would quit responding to someone that makes a statment like this. The guy says you NEED to squat more than once a week for strength gains, which tells me he has seen NOTHING in real life, and then says he is sure there are STUDIES about it--LMFAO

I am somewhat in agreement with you

This was a very general statement from me, I'm a nice guy and I don't like to argue with people.

At least they are not trying to tell him this is the way to get big, for a while there I was really holding back. Perhaps my estro is a bit high right now lol:blink: I am man enough to admit I don't know much about strength specific training but I will argue that approach in regards to hypertrophy till my fingers cramp up and fall off.

One of the moderators on my board squats ONCE a week and has a 765 lb squat

BTW IA I was unaware you have a site, don't take this as an insult but what one is it? Years ago I used to be all over the net under another user name but I had to change my identity due to some "issues". I like your line of thinking it is somewhat in parallel with my own.

 

[iron addict]

it's well known that if you're going for more than piss-poor strength gains, you need to do the particular exercise more than 1 time per week.

That is EXACTLY why I stated Mark quit replying to you. I am not sure what world you are on, but that is damn sure not the case in this one. A HUGE percentage of the BIG-BOYS squat once a week, and if you think squats in the 500-1000 lb range are piss-poor, you really are on another planet.

Mark,

My board is www.ironaddicts.com come on over and join the forum, love to have you there!

Iron Addict

 

[maggmaster]

Perhaps the difficulty lies in a basic difference in goals.... IA is trying to get people as strong as possible while keeping them from getting injured. His methods work well for that. People squatting 1-3 sets week are far less likely to injure themselves just based on pure propability not to mention the "greasing of the grooves" you are talking about does not grease the joints which with more use stand a better chance of failing just like any mechanical system. The other side of the coin is, how many times does one have to lift per week to stimulate MAXIMAL neurolgical and physical adaption. IA you yourself have stated that you choose not to push the envelope of overtraining because when you do you find it to hard not to slip over the line. Can you honestely say that you are sure that load splitting in the manner jjjd reccomends would not be superior for strength gains? Periodized routines work quite well as they manually manipulate the same variables you replicate through increase in load. Basically that is what he is advocating a periodized intensity loading squat routine, which if you look at it outside of the context of personal assaults you both have slipped into would propably work.

 

[jjjd]

ia, you are AS USUAL, wrong. you have a very limited mentality and experience.

OUTSIDE the USA (where weiderism reigns), MANY (if not most) PLers, OLers, etc. squat more than once a week. check out Sheiko's programs, for instance.

and plenty of lifters can load the back three times a week. NO PROBLEM. just lower the darn weight, and volume.

like beez said, he was lifting too close to maximal weight

what part of "lift submaximal weights" did you NOT understand. lay off the failure stuff, lower the weights, up the frequency and get some add strength and size. what he was using was not working. multiple squat sessions is worth a try

 

[Beelzebub]

maybe so, but i'm sticking to what works for now. if and when i start to feel progress has hindered, then i'll change it again. with the "submaximal weights" next time.

 

[iron addict]

ia, you are AS USUAL, wrong. you have a very limited mentality and experience.

OUTSIDE the USA (where weiderism reigns), MANY (if not most) PLers, OLers, etc. squat more than once a week. check out Sheiko's programs, for instance.

and plenty of lifters can load the back three times a week. NO PROBLEM. just lower the darn weight, and volume.

like beez said, he was lifting too close to maximal weight

what part of "lift submaximal weights" did you NOT understand. lay off the failure stuff, lower the weights, up the frequency and get some add strength and size. what he was using was not working. multiple squat sessions is worth a try

JJD,

I train 50-75 people at any one time and have been training people for 10 years now. You are the one that has limited experience as your all comes from fucking books. Have you REALLY spent a bunch of time in all the countries outside of the US, NO, you have just read a bunch of **** about how elite caliber athletes train and are know trying to transition this to bodybuilders.

In case you didn't notice we are talking about bodybuilders here. Compare your apples to your apples. Olympic style lifters typically do very low rep work and that is one of the reasons thay are able to get away with more sessions. You probably overlooked the fact the Beelz is doing sets of ten. Lets do some math genious.

Your olympic guy with a 500 lb max squat doing a 80% then 90%, then 100% session on three different days. For the sake of arguement we will have him working up to to 1 rep of the percetaes for that day, while our BB works up to one set of ten using 80%, 90%, and 100%

Olympic guy 80% 400lbs, 90% 450lbs, 100% 500lbs

total workload for three sessions of "work sets, workload=1350 lbs

Great! While he will probably do fine with reqruitment pattern gains, and thus gain strength, size.....well forget it.

Now our BB who can also max 500 and is using 450 for 10 reps.

80% 360x10 =3600 lbs, 90% 405 x 10=4050 lbs, 100% 450 x 10 = 4500 lbs

Workload = 12,150

Yes, the BB is likely to be beat to death even with the workload reduction and I don't know about you but even if I'm only at 90% of my ten rep squat I have a shitload of weight on my back and I am beat up by it.

Talk of what you know. I suspect there will be a lot of silence on your end if you comply.

Iron Addict

 

[maggmaster]

Hmmm interesting but I believe the the idea behind split sesions is to maintain workload and just spread it over more time. So B wouldnt do this
80% 360x10 =3600 lbs, 90% 405 x 10=4050 lbs, 100% 450 x 10 = 4500 lbs

He would instead take his previous totals for squats and divide them between multiple sessions thus increasing the stimulus for growth without increasing workload. Protein synthesi is heightened post exercise for what like 48 hr? So it would be optimal in an ideal world to split work into two or more workouts per week.

 

[Debaser]

Iron Addict the Single-Factor theory is INCORRECT. Forget about what Weider, Mentzer and any other "guru" say about each workout making an inroad to recovery that you must wait to rejuvenate from, because this is simply NOT TRUE.

GOING TO FAILURE hampers recovery considerably.

 

[iron addict]

Who mentioned anything about going to failure?

And if you REALLY beleive there is no need to wait until a MUSCLE (not systemic recovery) is recovered before training it again....well go right ahead and train that way. Don't tell others it's the way to go--it's not.

Iron Addict

 

[jjjd]

you do not NEED to wait until a muscle is recovered, and that you believe that shows you are merely a shill for "nonscientific weiderism". the mere fact that you use the term "NEED" shows your lack of understanding.

in fact, one of the main concepts behind training methodologies such as supercompensation is specifically to work out before the muscle is recovered.

you simply don't know what you are talking about. but i already knew that.

btw, for beez and others here's a good link with some interesting different routines

http://irongarm.org/routines.htm

these are more optimal for strength vs. hypertrophy, generally, but if you want your squat to go UP as the op did, there's some good stuff here

check out the smolov routine, or the sheiko beginners

 

[iron addict]

JJJD,

If there is no need to wait for a muscle to recover, then optimal results will be seen with everyday training of the muscle--sure, go right ahead.

Since you are such an authority just to to your local gym and find 20 guys to try your 3x a week squatting. Better yet, see if you can round up 20 board membbers here to try your STUNT.

You will soon discover all the **** you hhave READ (not experienced) about how high caliber olympic lifters train doesn't translate to BB type gains or training.

Perhaps you should be posting on the olympic forums so we will no longer have to listen to your drivel.

Iron Addict

 

[Debaser]

It's funny...I haven't heard of many people that HAVEN'T had success with Bill Starr's 5x5 routine (including myself). I guess I, along with every other person who's tried it, must be an elite athlete. I guess his famed book "Strength Training for Football" should have been called "Strength Training for the Genetic Elite."

It's laughable to dismiss the MANY THOUSANDS of trainees who have tried high-frequency routines with success. If you want to look at the genetic ELITE, look at the people who are squatting 3 times a DAY every DAY. THESE are the guys who are few and far between.

"If there is no need to wait for a muscle to recover, then optimal results will be seen with everyday training of the muscle--sure, go right ahead."

Actually, it's been proven that all significant hypertrophy occurs within 48 hours of the loading stimulus. So, every *other* day will suffice. Yet another reason once-per-week frequency is flawed. You actually could train a muscle group every day, but this is where you need to strike a balance with the CNS, as well.

 

[iron addict]

I've tried Bill Stars routine and know countless others that have done it. Some did well, MANY did not, myself included. debaser, I'm sure you mean well but lets face it, your experience is extremely limited and MOST comes from what you have read not witnessed. I'm 41 and by no means the last word on all things training related, but I have been weight training more years than you have been alive and exchange info with people all over the world, and I have a damn good idea of what the ratio is of people,that thrive on super high frequency workouts or super high volume vs those that don't and the numbers are dramatic. If you really belieive 3 x a week squatting is the best way to go have at it. You will probably find other methods work MUCH better.

Iron Addict

 

[jjjd]

IA, you throw out so many strawmen and logical inconsistencies, it is tough to decide where to start

1) i NEVER said (and in fact, i said the OPPOSITE) that "If you really belieive 3 x a week squatting is the best way to go have at it". your intellectual honesty is truly amazing. i made it very explicit (read the thread) that i did not think it was the BEST way. i said it was ****A**** way. so stop putting words in my mouth.

2) you do not understand the concept of "necessity". i suggest a course in analytical reasoning. you said "If there is no need to wait for a muscle to recover, then optimal results will be seen with everyday training of the muscle--sure, go right ahead."

that is a logically inconsistent, internally inconsistent statement. you do not NEED to wait for the muscle to recover. nor DOES the muscle recover in some sort of linear sense that you seem to think it does. there is a cascading series of effects post workout. in some respects, the muscle is recovered in days, in others - it takes weeks, etc. you have this very binary and linear way of thinking that is a VERY poor model for how training actually works

and plenty of people DO train the same muscle every day. *i* am not recommending it, but many lifters thrive on that. and it does NOT necessarily mean more volume per bodypart than if you train legs, for example, once a week. if you do 7 sets of squats in a leg session, then doing 1 set of squats, 7 days a weeek is the SAME volume

but when you use words like NEED, you should understand what they mean. necessity means a condition is REQUIRED for a result. muscle recovery is NOT required before the next workout, for progress.

your statement is simply false.

i suggest you reread what i write, and stop pretending i say things that i didn't/

the reality is this.

lifters, even those who are not genetically gifted (and it is a classic boogeyman among people like you, that anybody who succeeds in any training methodology other than the one YOU recommend is "geneticall gifted". it's a hedge, it's false, and it's a cop-out) THRIVE on working out a muscle group several days a week. this idea that you blast a muscle group, and then need to wait a week for it to recover is complete and utter rubbish. that is ***A*** methodology. it is not the only successful way to train.

the concept of "NEED" needs to be drummed into your head.

there are advantages AND disadvantages to ANY modality. no workout scheme is perfect, and there are cost/benefits for ALL of them.

you have a very narrow, non-scientific, and rigid way of thinking that keeps you from seeing the world as it really is.

 

[iron addict]

Blah,blah, blah. Quit blowing smoke, go get 20 lifters, put them on the 3 x a week squatting and then come back and tell us all about how it worked. I am quite confident you have not worked with 20 lifters yet in any detail.

Stating that doing 7 sets of squats on day a week or doing 1 sets 7 days a week is one of the stupidest things I have heard come out of your mouth yet. If a lifter is doing

450 x 10 x 7

It might look something like this:

135 x 10
225 x 8
315 x 5
375 x 3
405 x 2
435 x 1
450 x 10 , 10 , 10, 10, 10, 10, 10

Now if he is going to do it 7 x a week it looks like:

135 x 10
225 x 8
315 x 5
375 x 3
405 x 2
435 x 1
450 x 10

135 x 10
225 x 8
315 x 5
375 x 3
405 x 2
435 x 1
450 x 10

135 x 10
225 x 8
315 x 5
375 x 3
405 x 2
435 x 1
450 x 10

135 x 10
225 x 8
315 x 5
375 x 3
405 x 2
435 x 1
450 x 10

135 x 10
225 x 8
315 x 5
375 x 3
405 x 2
435 x 1
450 x 10

135 x 10
225 x 8
315 x 5
375 x 3
405 x 2
435 x 1
450 x 10

135 x 10
225 x 8
315 x 5
375 x 3
405 x 2
435 x 1
450 x 10

Yeah, the workload is the same LMAO. Or are you sugesteing no warmups are needed LMAO.

If you look real hard you might find one of your beloved studies telling you that joints and connective tissue don't heal as fast as muscle tissue. The POUNDING you are suggesting will have most folks feeling like old folks in a few weeks.

Your theoretical knowledge is just that.

Iron Addict

 

[BigTEX]

It's laughable to dismiss the MANY THOUSANDS of trainees who have tried high-frequency routines with success. If you want to look at the genetic ELITE, look at the people who are squatting 3 times a DAY every DAY. THESE are the guys who are few and far between.

I've never heard of anyone squatting 3 times a day. I don't even know anyone who squats 3 times a week. I'm 50 yrs old and belong to 2 different power lifting organizations. The general rule is to squat only one "heavy" session per week. Some guys will squat twice a week for the 6 weeks before a meet....one light day and a heavy day, but extemely heavy weights more than once a week will overtrain, backfire and just make you weaker.

 

[jjjd]

my theoretical knowledge is also practical knowledge. i have worked with world class athletes, mediocre athletes, and various levels in between

you can "LMAO" all you want. that is about your level of understanding

the truth is you DID create strawmen. i never said my way was the Best way. i said the exact opposite

it is also false to say that if X isn't NECESSARY, then NOT X = optimal results

you don't understand logic, so how can you construct a sentence that makes sense?

that's a rhetorical question

 

[jjjd]

"I've never heard of anyone squatting 3 times a day."

Note: i do NOT recommend this. it takes YEARS (for most people) to build up a tolerance to that sort of frequency/volume

but it is relatively common among bulgarians et al

" I don't even know anyone who squats 3 times a week."

Hi. I've squatted anywhere from 4 times a week, down to not squatting for 8 weeks (had to do leg press etc. because i pulled an adductor)

" I'm 50 yrs old and belong to 2 different power lifting organizations. The general rule is to squat only one "heavy" session per week."

Jeez. Even louie simmons (westside) squats twice per week

one speed day, and one maximal effort day

plenty of pl'ers squat anywhere from 1 day a week, 2 days a week, 3 days a week

check out korte, sheiko, etc.


" Some guys will squat twice a week for the 6 weeks before a meet....one light day and a heavy day, but extemely heavy weights more than once a week will overtrain, backfire and just make you weaker."

first of all, that's patently false. second of all, i didn't recommend "extremely heavy weights" more than once a week. i recommended submaximal weights, sometimes with compensatory acceleration