[bigmark1972]

Ronnie wasn't always as big as he is now.

No, but ronnie was bigger than most of us here before he ever touched a weight. His arms were almost 20" when he started training.

Drugs, yes genetics, yes, good training, yes, good nutrition, yes. This is what it takes to be the best no amount of drugs alone will build a champion.

[J. Peterman]

Originally Posted by bigmark1972

No, but ronnie was bigger than most of us here before he ever touched a weight. His arms were almost 20" when he started training.

No they weren't. I have seen old pictures back in 92 when he competed and he is nothing like he is today. He's been using insane doses for a VERY long time. The guy is 40.

I agree that all of those things above contribute but the freakishness of competitors now is because of drugs. Their growth is not natural by any stretch of the imagination. Distended bellies because of high GH and IGF-1 is not genetics, its drug induced as is most of their freakish growth.

[Manwhore]

Originally Posted by bigmark1972

No, but ronnie was bigger than most of us here before he ever touched a weight. His arms were almost 20" when he started training.

Drugs, yes genetics, yes, good training, yes, good nutrition, yes. This is what it takes to be the best no amount of drugs alone will build a champion.

i never meant it was the drugs,that were responsible for ALL his muscle growth,but i thought that was just obvious.... I would like to see some MORE pics of Ronnie early in his career,because i have a hard time believing he had 20" arms,unless they were 20"s of fat

[ManBeast]

Ronnie was a PL way before he was a BB...

ManBeast

[bigmark1972]

He was introduced into competition bodybuilding by Brian Dobson, the owner of Arlington's Metro Flex Gym. His first bodybuilding contest was in April 1990, at the Mr. Texas. He won first heavyweight and overall. His contest weight is around 229 pounds, while his offseason weight hovers around 250.

He was still very big even back then, but I do agree the drugs have taken him to where he is now. Sometimes I wonder what I could have done with myself if I had no regular job and 10g's a month to spend on gear and food. When I was younger, I always wanted to be a competative bb'er but the amount of drugs I would have to take is just stupid. Honestly I am surprised he still has a functioning organ in his body.

[J. Peterman]

They probably don't, you just don't know about it. Half these guys can't have kids anymore. He did win his first contest but he was training for other sports before that. Nobody saying genetics aren't playing a role but its the drugs that give that freakish size, not genetics. At that point your WAY past your genetic potential anyway and it plays more a role on proportion than anything. I mean most of these guys are around the same sizse (give or take difference in height) but its the ones that are HUGE and symmetrical that win. You can clearly see the difference here when you look at Coleman compared toi Ruhl. THe whole stage is freakish because of the drugs and amounts used.

I would love to see what Arnold would look like with the amount they use today.

[bigmark1972]

I would love to see what Arnold would look like with the amount they use today.

I agree, I wonder that myself often. He'd probably be in the ground already if he had the same drugs/dosages they are using now.

[VanillaGorilla]

No, but ronnie was bigger than most of us here before he ever touched a weight. His arms were almost 20" when he started training.

He was 215 back around 92 when he started wasn't he? The rags always try to make the pros out to be genetically superior. Especially the ones that don't write about drugs. I read some where that Cutler benched 315 the first time he touched a weight. I have run into a few people that new him when he started out who said it wasn't true. They will always exaggerate.It makes the pros look better and sells more mags.

[bigmark1972]

He was 215 back around 92 when he started wasn't he?

Nope he won his first contest very easily way back in 90.

His first bodybuilding contest was in April 1990, at the Mr. Texas. He won first heavyweight and overall. His contest weight is around 229 pounds, while his offseason weight hovers around 250.

I agree they do exaggerate, but coleman has great genetics no doubt about it.

[VanillaGorilla]

I agree they do exaggerate, but coleman has great genetics no doubt about it.

No question about that.

[Scottyo]

Just a point to add since people are again discussing drugs vs. genetics. Genetics effect things in many different ways. Some people are genetically gifted to be big, lean, and strong etc. WITHOUT drugs. Others need drugs to get on par with the first individual.
Yet there are also other individuals who might only be "joe average" without drugs, but have great genetics FOR DRUGS. Ie, more receptive to androgen dosing and more androgen receptors etc. I think this may be the case with many pro level bodybuilders.

[bigmark1972]

Yet there are also other individuals who might only be "joe average" without drugs, but have great genetics FOR DRUGS. Ie, more receptive to androgen dosing and more androgen receptors etc. I think this may be the case with many pro level bodybuilders.

I agree people respond differently to drugs, but drugs are not going to make someone have tight/small joints, long muscle bellies, narrow waist, wide shoulder structure, etc.
Some people have genetics to be a champion bb'er aka Arnold and some do not.

[Manwhore]

There is no way you can tell someones genetic potential. I've seen people,with narrow...very narrow shoulders,gain a tremendous amount of muscle,and you would never ever guess where they started from,unless you saw pictures. After all,didn't Tom Platz start out with narrow shoulders and wide hips? Wasn't Arnold 6'3" at 235lbs? To me,that's not a very hard weight to reach,even with very low BF,when your training and diet are very strict. It,also,doesn't seem too hard,if you were training serious,for as long as he was. Until i saw it for myself,i thought all those very skinny guys,should just give up bodybuilding. I thought that it was just impossible for them to gain any decent amount of muscle mass. I was very wrong. If Arnold was the Terminator :-) would he be so popular in the BBing community. If he wasn't a millionaire before he ever won his 1st Pro Competition,would he have won all the others? Maybe

[bigmark1972]

There is no way you can tell someones genetic potential

I don't even know what to say to that?

After all,didn't Tom Platz start out with narrow shoulders and wide hips? Wasn't Arnold 6'3" at 235lbs

Tom Platz was never and could never be as impressive, succesful a bb'er as Arnold was.

I've seen people,with narrow...very narrow shoulders,gain a tremendous amount of muscle,and you would never ever guess where they started from,unless you saw pictures.

Perhaps but, someone with wider hips than shoulders will never be a top level bb.

Wasn't Arnold 6'3" at 235lbs? To me,that's not a very hard weight to reach,even with very low BF,when your training and diet are very strict.

His highest contest weight was 242 and his arms 23" at the peak try and achieve that and tell me it was not very hard.

If Arnold was the Terminator :-) would he be so popular in the BBing community. If he wasn't a millionaire before he ever won his 1st Pro Competition

uhhhhh, Arnold success as a BB'er was YEARS AND YEARS before terminator, and he was far from rich at the beginning, in fact he could hardly afford to eat correctly.

In 1965 when Arnold turned 18 he joined the Austrian Army for mandatory service. His parents hoped the time in the army would cure him of his bodybuilding obsession. However, Arnold had a different idea. While in basic training, he found out that the Junior Mr. Europe bodybuilding competition was going to be held in nearby Stuttgard. Arnold went AWOL from the army to compete and won the with a perfect 300 point score, the first anyone had ever had a perfect score.
He was far from rich when he turned pro and won his first show as a pro.
We are going to have to agree to disagree here.

[Manwhore]

Originally Posted by bigmark1972

I don't even know what to say to that?

...... That's OK,You can just agree :-)

Tom Platz was never and could never be as impressive, succesful a bb'er as Arnold was.

Platz would crush Arnold

Perhaps but, someone with wider hips than shoulders will never be a top level bb.

Back to statement #1

His highest contest weight was 242 and his arms 23" at the peak try and achieve that and tell me it was not very hard.

Mentzer said the Pros always exaggerated about their arm size. Mentzer said his arms were in the 18s in comp condition,so i doubt very much Arnolds were 23" comp condition. Maybe off season,but that's not that hard to achieve with layers of fat on them.

uhhhhh, Arnold success as a BB'er was YEARS AND YEARS before terminator, and he was far from rich at the beginning, in fact he could hardly afford to eat correctly.

Well,i heard he made his 1st million selling BBing supps before he was ever a Pro. Even if he didn't,you can't tell me his popularity outside of BBing didn't help his BBing career.

In 1965 when Arnold turned 18 he joined the Austrian Army for mandatory service. His parents hoped the time in the army would cure him of his bodybuilding obsession. However, Arnold had a different idea. While in basic training, he found out that the Junior Mr. Europe bodybuilding competition was going to be held in nearby Stuttgard. Arnold went AWOL from the army to compete and won the with a perfect 300 point score, the first anyone had ever had a perfect score.
.

I'm happy for him

[Scottyo]

Ummm I dont mean to get in the middle of this but if you think Platz would crush Arnold, I think you have a different standard of bodybuilding. period.