[Beelzebub]

My form is always the same and I've even had more experience guys examine my squat as I perform it. Not a problem there. However, the pain was mostly in my knees and my lower back was starting to feel tight all the time, not just muscle tight either. As soon as I switched to squats once a week, the problem went away. Pretty obvious to me.

[bigmark1972]

and my lower back was starting to feel tight all the time, not just muscle tight either.

From my earlier post in this thread.

The lower back takes longer to recover from training stress than any other muscle, this can lead your lower back to become weaker and weaker, like a weak link in a chain your squat will suffer as a result.

Sorry, just I had to do that

[roadrunner]

yep, I've noticed the same thing.

I could deadlift & do squats 3 times a week if my lower back would recover as fast as everything else

[Beelzebub]

roadrunner, just had to let you know that your avatar is now my desktop.

[jjjd]

"Except for high caliber Olympic lifters, few in the iron game squat 3x a week, and there is a good reason for that.

Iron Addict"

that is utter rubbish and empirically verified as false. first of all, i have worked out with many athletes (only a small minority of whom are anywhere NEAR high caliber Olympic lifters), and many of them squatted 3X (or 2 or 4 X a week).

you do NOT need to be a high caliber ol'er to benefit from squatting three times a week. i have seen 14 yr old moderately talented kids THRIVE on such a program. but it comes down to loading. if you think that every time (HIT addict rubbish) you go into the gym you need to lift more than you did last time, then this will not work

for reasons of neurosynaptic facilitation, rate coding, etc. all sorts of people can benefit from squatting three times a week. not to mention those doing the 20 rep squat program

i should also note i know many people (some of whom are FAR from gifted) who have gotten stronger using korte's 3*3 as well

i should note that DEADLIFTING several times a week is MUCH more problematic than squatting 3X a week, btw, in regards to the other poster's post

strength does not progress linearly, and the mind is the ULTIMATE "muscle" when it comes to moving weights. if you are so convinced that it will only work with the "genetically gifted" (which is a total bullshit copout), then it won't work. reference what i said about roger bannister and the 4 minute mile.

but.. you are simply wrong. i know DOZENS of people who have gotten much stronger (from as young as 10 yrs old up to mid 50's) from squatting 3X a week. NOT high caliber olympic lifters, just people willing to work hard, and not so close minded

[bigmark1972]

I'm with ya on that she is a hottie, nice BJ eyes.
I suddenly feel like I need a bath, more like a cold shower lol.

[iron addict]

JJD,

yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen a BUNCH of people attempt it myself and they all pretty much ended up where Beelzebub did. Using newbie kids is a great example (LMAO) ANYTHING will provide results with people in that category.

Yes, your protocol can work well for olympic lifters. Did you ever go to reason that not many people here are olympic lifters? Maybe your on the wrong board. OH, I know, Beelzebub, just didn't have the right mindset and thats why it didn't work. LMFAO.

Iron Addict

[Debaser]

There is no reason that the lower back should take "longer to recover." If it feels tight then there is an actual problem in this area. Pain in the knees as well are all pointing to an anterior pelvic tilt.

[Beelzebub]

The only reason I don't think it's something else is because as soon as I stopped squatting that often, there was no pain. I'm not saying jjjd's program is bad, it just didn't suit me too well. I'm sure plenty of people excel in such a program, I'm not one of them. jjjd, thanks for the advice, but I think all I really needed was to change the rep scheme up a bit. As Bobo's quote says "I'm keeping it simple unless the need for technecality arises."

[jjjd]

ia, i simply believe you do not know what you are talking about. squatting 3x a week is NOT just for OLers. it is for anybody. it is an alternative methodology, it is not "better" or worse than squatting one day a week. like ALL training methodologies, it has +'s and -'s.

how long did beez do this? what ? 1 week? 2 weeks? and that is supposed to be a definitive trial? try it for 3 months with appropriate loading modifications and get back to me.

btw, as i said, it is NOT just ol'ers. for example, refer to bill starr's programs for football players, etc.

[Beelzebub]

yeah, i might have done it wrong anyway. i was basically going all out each time on squats. like on the 10 rep day, i was just barely getting 10. same goes for the 5's and 2's.

[jjjd]

and that is EXACTLY what i said NOT to do. in order for this to work, you HAVE to get out of the weider/menzer'esque mentality of "blasting your legs" and/or working to failure

we are working on rate coding, neurosynaptic facilitation, "greasing the groove" etc.

if your 10 rep max is 300 lbs, then you should be doing sets of 10 at around 250 lbs, for instance

it's not a matter of applying the BBer paradigm, but just squatting with greater frequency.

[iron addict]

yeah, JJD, The guy's back who squats 300 for 10, and then instead does 250 x 10, will hardly feel the weight. You are the one who doesn't know what he is talking about. A HUGE percentage of the lifters out there just can't load their spinal culumn 3 days a week even with submaximal loads and not have their back complain, and complain loudly. Work with a lot of people over the yeas and you will experience this. Instead you can keep coming accross with your limited experience and handfulls of studies. I CANNOT load my back even submaximally 3x a week, and neither can a BUNCH of the people reading this. That many olympic lifters get away with it is irrelivant. Look in bodybuilding and powerlifting and see how many use this approach--they don't. I like Bill Starr, but most of his programs FLATTEN enetically average trainees and I have met a BUNCH over the years that suffered big-time injuries trying his ****. IF YOU ARE BROKEN YOU CAN'T TRAIN, OLYPIC LIFTERS INJURY RATE IS SO FAR ABOVE PL'ERS AN BB'S IT'S INSANE.

Iron Addict

[morfiend]

beelz, go lighter. give it a shot.

its no surprise you hurt your back, or have pain, when you're trying to squat heavy 3x a week. i have been in your situation before, and just got weaker. i didnt have any pain, but i couldn't lift as much. it's amazing the effect that light and/or speed work has on strength and how quickly you will see results with it.

the light work may even make your back feel better.

if you want strength in your squat, you NEED to squat more than one day a week. i'm sure there are studies on this, i don't care to look them up. don't quote me on this, but i think the bare minimum for strength gains is performing the exercise once every 4 days.

[Beelzebub]

ok, i'll give it a shot later on when this program starts to stalemate. don't fix what ain't broke.

[iron addict]

Anyone that needs a ****ing study to tell them one way or another how many times to squat a week should NOT be giving advice. There are COUNTLESS BB's and powerlifters out there getting fantastic results squatting once or twice a week. A HUGE segment of the lifters out there squat once a week, including TONS of PL'ers that squat anywhere from 500-1000 lbs. One of the moderators on my board squats ONCE a week and has a 765 lb squat. He doesn't need a ****ing study to tell him if it is working or not.

Iron Addict

[Jergo]

Originally Posted by iron addict

Anyone that needs a ****ing study to tell them one way or another how many times to squat a week should NOT be giving advice. There are COUNTLESS BB's and powerlifters out there getting fantastic results squatting once or twice a week. A HUGE segment of the lifters out there squat once a week, including TONS of PL'ers that squat anywhere from 500-1000 lbs. One of the moderators on my board squats ONCE a week and has a 765 lb squat. He doesn't need a ****ing study to tell him if it is working or not.

Iron Addict

LMAO!!...I gotta agree here.....you'll only know your threshold by doing and trying different things and finding what works for you.

I simply could not imagine squatting more than once/week. Hell, when I was still doing them, I would even let them go at once every 9 days!! Just initiate the growth mechanism people, no need to make yourself vomit 3 times/week if you ain't got to...