[jjjd]

i don't think we disagree as much as you were assuming i was saying things that i didn't say. i never SAID that a given drug was "evil". i never said that any given drug should or should not be legal.

i merely said that, based on PHARMACOLOGICAL evidence that I can support with extensive knowledge and experience, that there are very distinct differences between strongly addictive, psychoactive, and sometimes life threatening substances such as crystal meth and crack cocaine vs. substances such as MJ or Steroids.

that one does not have to minimize the dangers of a given drug in order to argue that it should or should not be legal, or given pharmacological equivalence to another drug

anybody with even basic knowledge of psychology, criminology, pharmacology, etc. for example knows that PCP is a whole other thing than, for example, marijuana or steroids.

that is all i am saying. just because i disagree with the thrust of the "war on drugs' does not mean i will downplay evidence of the various (and very disparate) dangers of various illegal (and legal) drugs for the purposes of making a point

and that is, contrary to your assumptions about my position, tangential as to whether i think a given drug is "evil" or should be illegal.

for example, i find much of false pseudoscience surrounding many MJ legalization advocates to be equally as reprehensible as the false pseudoscience surrounding many MJ legalization opponents. it is equally wrong to misrepresent science, just to try to advocate a position

and if you SERIOUSLY think that FREEBASE (which is prepared using ether) is not a flammable substance, then you are simply ignorant of drug prep methods

that was my main point

Freebase is, as richard pryor so well demonstrated, a fire hazard. crack, which is simply cocaine hydrochloride prepared with baking soda, water, and low heat to create a base smokable cocaine, is NOT flammable

hth

but no hard feelings.


i like some of korte's principles btw.

i do know several people who tried korte DID lose size (mostly in the arms), but it is a valid strength training methodology.

for somebody who wants both size and strength, as the original poster claims, I owuld prefer a more vershashansky'esque prgram, for what it's worth

[morfiend]

Originally Posted by jjjd

i don't think we disagree as much as you were assuming i was saying things that i didn't say...

HEY, it's over! i'm not arguing about this anymore on this forum, it's not the place..

[bigmark1972]

try, for example, squatting EVERY workout

jjjd
I am going to go on record as saying this is most likely the very last thing he should do


You have your opinion, I have mine take no offense, he can certainally try a few different ideas here and see how they pan out for him.

You guys and your crack discussion makes me laugh find something better to argue about two smart individuals arguing over crack makes my head hurt.

[jjjd]

why?

squatting in the conventional "blast it and then let it recover for a week" bber style is NOT working for him

so, an alternative methodology is worth trying

and squatting every workout WORKS for literally HUNDREDS of thousands of athletes worldwide

why should he be any different?

we all have our opinions. i am not even saying mine is the best. i am saying it is an option, and it is radically different enough from his current protocol which he admits is NOT working, such that it is worth a try

it also has N=hundreds of thousands of successful trials to back it up, as well as science

[Debaser]

http://www.dynamic-eleiko.com/sporti...ews/nv005.html

"Taranenko: I train six days per week: three-times per day for three days, for a total of six (6) hours per day and twice-a-day, for the other three days, for a total of four (4) hours each day."

"I usually squat every day, sometimes more than once-a-day. My best back squat is 380 kg (837 lbs). But this is with a two-second pause at the bottom."

Unbelievable strength.

You're after strength bud, particularly in the squat, so why don't you drop the outdated, incorrect Weider methodologies (which ironically, are not even suited very well to bodybuilding itself--see HST), and try something like the Smolov squat program?

[jjjd]

exactly.

fwiw, i am not saying that a taranenko or bulgarian influenced (bulgarians often squat up to 3X a DAY and workout 6 days a week or so), since systems like that are self-selecting. those that can't handle the volume/loading, simply drop out

HOWEVER, you are very correct in that people are so into their "weider paradigm" that they simply can't see that you can get great results from squatting every workout (or even every day) and make good gains in both strength and size

the fundamental point is this. CONVENTIONAL "blast it and let it recover" training is NOT working for him. thus, imo, he should try something like we are recommending

[bigmark1972]

I usually squat every day, sometimes more than once-a-day. My best back squat is 380 kg (837 lbs). But this is with a two-second pause at the bottom."

I am not aware of what volume he is doing but it must be like basically a single set, two at most of a heavy single or double, and certainally not to failure. This is a completely strength oriented program right? I will check that link out debasser so I can become educated on this approach.

I agree weider is an idiot and so are his training ideas. I personally use DC's training, twisted a bit to suit me personally and hit each bodypart 3x in a 9 day period with sufficiently low volume to avoid overtraining but with enough intensity to stimulate growth. I throw extra recovery time in as needed.

squatting in the conventional "blast it and then let it recover for a week" bber style is NOT working for him

I actually agree with you on this point and that is not what I was suggesting but I can see how it could be taken that way since I was so vague. I recommended the week or two off only to ensure he was no longer in an overtrained state. I could probably get a good idea of that just by getting a good look at him or going through a workout with him. When someone is cronically overtrained it is usually pretty obvious to the trained eye.

I would suggest lowering the volume and increasing the intensity, frequency would be an individual thing depending on how good of a diet, supplementation, his recoverability etc, but as frequent as possible.

I personally have become very adept at "reading" my body and I just know when it is time to hit it again I can feel it.
I think we are kinda on the same page here although if I were to squat everyday I would be a cripple within a week. But I am sure his methods must differ from mine.
I do think a week is too long to wait before rehitting a bodypart, the real magic (hate to use this term but it applies here) is knowing your sweet spot as far as frequency goes.

When I became "aware" if you will of my body my gains really started to speed up and so will his. I am glad this has not turned into a slam the squat thread given the title of the post. It is obvious that all here know and appreciate the value of the squat and that makes me much more confident in the opinions listed here and the "intelligence" of this thread in general.

I have to add before reading up on debassers link that as of now, until convinced otherwise I do not believe it is possible to squat every day, much less twice a day if your goal is hypertrophy. Strength training is a whole other animal and I know lots of guys that can squat a building but look like ****, no thanks on that.

[Beelzebub]

jjjd,
Cool, I'll give it a whirl. If I had to choose a goal, I would choose leg mass for now, due to it having such a size difference from upper body. Either way, I haven't gained **** from my methods so I'll give it a try. Starting today actually. How's this sound:
monday squat - 6 sets of 2 rep (85%)
wednes squat - 4 sets of 10 rep (60%)
friday squat - 5 sets of 5 reps (70%)
Each time changing weights to appropriate percentage of my max.

bigmark,
I don't believe I'm overtrained because wouldn't that correlate with other lifts suffering also? Not the case here, squat isn't really suffering either (persay), just not changing. My workout routine is I work out EOD, chest/tris, shoulders/back, legs/bi's. So, incorporating squats each workout would still mean I have a day off in between each squat day so it shouldn't be too bad.

[supersoldier]

This is a little off topic, but after reading this, I wanna see what you guys think, jjjd, bigmark, IA, Bobo, ect. If you were happy with your current size at the moment, what would happen if you were to switch your training protocol to a pure strength training/ neural recruitment program for a period of say 8 weeks just to get your lifts up? Assuming diet and supplementation are the same, would you be likely to lose a lot of size or hardness? How bout with the aid of a kickass androgen cycle? Could you just flip a switch to a pure strength program and hope to keep size? Assuming you could, you would then be a lot stronger in your major lifts to reassume whatever bodybuilding program that you know works for you, and the stength gains made should then lead to increased hypertrophy, right? I am aware of periodization, just wanna get you guys' take on something like this.

[bigmark1972]

If you were happy with your current size at the moment

First of all, this will never happen no matter how big I get but I will play along

I have to admit I have wondered this myself, it would seem to me that it should work to build up some strength and set you up for more gains when you returned to hypertrophy training. With the use of an androgen I doubt you would lose any real size but I sure can't say for certain. I think a bigger concern would be to make sure you do not get injured during this period of super heavy strength training or you will def be in trouble. It is much harder to maintain form on the big 3 when you pile on the weight quickly one bad move and you could tear a cuff, or a pec or whatever.

Now that I think of it a few years ago I tried this with squats and ended up tearing a quadracep, it was a very minor tear, but it looked nasty and took me 4 mos to get back to where I was before. I was not using bad form and I was warm, I had never had an injury before that somehow I just was not used to the heavy weight.

I am sure this has been tried before, I bet someone here has done it, there has to be a study or write up on this somewhere. Like I said I have also thought about it, but as of now since I am on a comeback and well below my max strength I am still gaining well in both strength and size but would try it again when my strength gains stall.

Why don't you give it a go and let us know how it works out for you, you seem to be up for trying new things

I'll add one more thing, most of us (not all I know) are somewhat strangers to strength training it is very different (I know you know this just making a point). I'd do some research into westside training, know what you are going to do before you do it. Looking back this is probably why I got hurt. When I was younger I used to think I knew it all just because I was one of the biggest guys in town. I was wrong, I figured I have been squatting for years I have this covered lol. After I got hurt I did some research and the way they do the big 3 is much different that your typical bb'er.

[Beelzebub]

Yeah, I figure it won't hurt anything as long as I keep it controlled.

[Beelzebub]

Well, I started the new squat journey last night after chest/tris. Got 315 for 8, could have gotten more but from what I understand, I shouldn't push too hard. Next workout is Wednesday, my supposed leg/bi day. I'll do just squats for 8-10 sets of 2 reps with 85-90% max weight and see how it feels. To tell the truth, I'm actually looking kind of forward to it.

[Beelzebub]

Well damn, just got done with that little experiment and I was actually pretty pleased. Got 435lbs for 2 reps at slightly below parallel. It's the most weight I've tried and done correctly. I'll keep on keepin' on and see how this turns out.

[morfiend]

Originally Posted by Beelzebub

Well damn, just got done with that little experiment and I was actually pretty pleased. Got 435lbs for 2 reps at slightly below parallel. It's the most weight I've tried and done correctly. I'll keep on keepin' on and see how this turns out.

good to hear

[jjjd]

i've been off the board for a while, but good to see you've started the program

btw, i really recommend that at least some squats be done in the 60-70% of max weight range, for sets of 2-4 or so, and with maximal acceleration, and with short rest.

but the program looks pretty good

[iron addict]

Beez,

Your goal is to bump your squat poundage, and since you are stalemated you don't hae much to lose, so how about trying this:

Dump the extra leg-work as discussed above and just squat and perhaps do leg presses one a week for three weeks. Tell us how it went. Then try JJJd'S approach for three weeks and tell us how it went. Unlike many of the dogmatic personalities here I know there are many ways to skin a cat, and what matters is results. I predict JJJD's EVERY day squatting will pound you into the ground. If you attempt this approach make sure the intensity is modulated as morfiend suggested.

Iron Addict