Phera Plex Plan for 1st Timer---Please Critique
- 06-03-2006, 12:13 AM
Phera Plex Plan for 1st Timer---Please Critique
1st timer looking for critique/feedback. Hope plan reflects extensive research. Anything missing? Overkill? Thanks in advance for any assistance. This is actually an upgraded plan based on feedback of 1st plan.
Pre-cycle – Run support supps for 2-3 weeks prior to cycle.
Pre-cycle for 3 weeks/Support Supplements: Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/ed Co-Q10=100mg/ed, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed, Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 10-14 g/ed, ALA (600mg/ed)
Week 1 PP 10mg
Week 2 PP 20mg
Week 3 PP 20mg
Week 4 PP 20mg (up to 30mg if gains stopping)
Post Cycle Therapy
Week 5 Nolva 40mg -- RXT (25mg) -- DHEA 200mg -- Fenugreek 1g -- Retain 3 caps
Week 6 Nolva 30mg -- RXT (50mg) -- DHEA 200mg -- Fenugreek 2g -- Retain 3 caps
Week 7 Nolva 20mg -- RXT (75mg) -- DHEA 100mg -- Fenugreek 3g -- Retain 3caps
Week 8 Fenugreek 4g-- RXT 25mg -- Retain 2 caps
Support Supps from Cycle through post cycle therapy (Multi-Vitamin Daily)
Week 1 Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/day Co-Q10=100mg/day, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed, Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 10-14 g/day, ALA 600mg/ed if possible
Week 2 Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/day Co-Q10=100mg/day, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed, Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 10-14 g/day, ALA 600mg/ed
Week 3 Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/day Co-Q10=100mg/day, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed, Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 10-14 g/day, ALA 600mg/ed
Week 4 Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/day Co-Q10=100mg/day, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed, Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 10-14 g/day, ALA 600mg/ed
Week 5BEGIN post cycle therapy Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/day Co-Q10=100mg/day, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed, Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 10-14 g/day, ALA 600mg/ed, CEE
Week 6 Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/day Co-Q10=100mg/day, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed or, Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 10-14 g/day, ALA 600mg/ed, CEE
Week 7 Hawthorn 1500 mg/ed, RYR=1200mg/day Co-Q10=100mg/day, Milk Thistle 1000mg/ed, Celery Seed 3 caps, Fish Oil 1-4 g/ed, ALA 600mg/ed, CEE
Week 8 CEE, Fish Oil 1-4 g, ALA 300mg/ed,
I'm currently running pre-cycle supps to prep for cycle to begin in a week or two...exciting stuff! (Hopefully!)
- 06-03-2006, 12:15 AM
What are your other stats? DHEA is a good supplement, but it's effects are much more pronounced in older men. IMO you don't need the RXT, and also thinking about putting another Saponin in there. Trib/Maca for libido and a wonderful addition would be Powerfull by USP.
- 06-03-2006, 12:36 AM
06-03-2006, 12:37 AM
Ah yes...thanks mulletsoldier, totally forgot to include:Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
Dang, totally meant to put Powerfull in there...
Will research the Trip/Maca. Is that a saponin? If not can you suggest another saponin as you mentioned. Is it a clenser of some sort?
06-03-2006, 12:39 AM
Nah, it's a plant family that has aphrodisiac effects. Trib/Maca are both saponins, I just put up a thread called "Tribulus Innefective?" there is some good info on Saponins in there. Seeing as you are 35 I think DHEA is a good addition to your PCT. I have a little experiment I wanna try with Maca too, anywhoo that's another story. Besides that it looks like you have done your research, hope you have a good cycle!Originally Posted by rocknroll
06-03-2006, 12:44 AM
Man, my bad UHCougar05, I forgot to include that too...Originally Posted by UHCougar05
Hoping and planning to add good clean bulk. Increasing calories (not sure of a number yet) but planning on being very crisp and clean increase. Do not want to fatten up too much this time of year but being a teacher I will have the time off this summer to devote to training, diet, good cycle.
06-03-2006, 12:52 AM
Much thx Mulletsoldier. Will check out the Trib thread to educate self on saponins.Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
Sounds like you might try a little pioneering... LOL
06-03-2006, 12:53 AM
Sounds like you've got everything in order. I've been taking Phera Plex at 20mg for about 2 weeks and I've noticed a really good strength increase even though I've been eating roughly at or below maintenance. Just be careful because the strength gains do come somewhat quick and you don't want to injure yourself.Originally Posted by rocknroll
06-03-2006, 12:55 AM
Well Maca's effects have been shown to be cumulative. So I am thinking dosing it low during the last month of a cycle will allow the blood serum levels to peak at the onset of PCT. It's just a thought, I have to consult people that know more than me first.
06-03-2006, 12:59 AM
Gotcha. Thx for the heads up. I have read that around week 2 it kicks in substantially. Should I be preventative and use something to help the joints? Cirrus?Originally Posted by UHCougar05
It is interesting to see how some people are putting good weight and some others are seeing strength.
Are you planning on running for 4 weeks? Are you going to 30mg? Some have recommended to stay at 20 unless no gains are being made.
06-03-2006, 01:29 AM
I would only use cissus if you were prone to joint problems. I have tendonitis in both elbows, but the Phera Plex really hasn't made it any worse. It was only really bad when my elbows were in a locked position, so I had to give up the barbell rows and replace them with Hammer machine rows. Just make smart choices when it comes to exercises and choose those which are easier on the joints.Originally Posted by rocknroll
Yeah, I've seen that people have been about evenly split between size and strength. I haven't really been eating for size on this cycle (I'm ~250lbs anyway), so I really didn't need the extra size. I'm most likely going to finish out the 4 weeks at 20mg because I really don't want to push it on the first time out.
06-03-2006, 02:02 AM
Yeah I definitely recommend the saponins (MACA, Fenugreek, or Tribulus) just due to what MulletSoldier mentioned, the libido enhancement. A lot of these studies say there isn't an improvement in really anything but it is because they are using so-so dosages on young males who already have high androgen levels in their blood. DHEA is another outstanding PCT product, and I have posted a few threads about its effects (with studies).
As for the support supplements check out Anabolic Innovation's Cycle Support in my signature for everything you need so you don't have to buy it separate or pop pills all day long . $1/day
06-03-2006, 02:05 AM
06-03-2006, 03:11 AM
06-03-2006, 08:09 AM
Regarding the Cycle Support, I see some overlap with ingredients compared to what is in my plan but there are some things not in Cycle Support that are on my plan. Would I need to add the stuff/pills from my plan that isn't listed in the Cycle Support ingredients?Originally Posted by LakeMountD
06-03-2006, 11:50 AM
I just took a look at your ingredients and here is the deal. You have red yeast rice and coq10 which in studies was shown to work synergistically. However, the reason red yeast rice was considered and then rejected for our formula was because some people plan to use it long term and the long term use (stated by JMH80) of statins is a bad idea in general. As for the coq10, we rejected this because the ingredient that we DO have in our formula, idebenone is actually a more effective variant of coq10 and when added to red yeast rice had even a more significant impact, however, it wasn't worth adding the RYR for the fact that it was a statin. We want people to be able to consistently improve their health while taking our formula. The fish oil that you have is alwayyysss a good thing, it has outstanding properties for your lipid values but that isn't something we can add since its an oil and we have a powder. ALA was considered but we couldn't use becasue a)it tastes and smells like an offensive lineman's jockstrap and b)becuase it is very sensitive to moisture/light so we didn't want to add something that couldn't keep (this is why ALA is given in dark bottles and said to be kept in a cool dry place like the cabinet).Originally Posted by rocknroll
Other than that the things we have included are all standardized extracts for the best possible potency and all of the dosages have been researched and we used what we felt (apparent in the studies) was the best dosage to go with. This is the BETA 2 formula and either a Final or BETA 3 could be on the horizon eventually but we currently feel that we have a solid product and we want to be absolutely sure we have things right before we change it again.
pistonpump- what costs 60?
06-03-2006, 03:10 PM
The cycle support. its 29.99 or something like that right? well when it was time to checkout i got quoted for something around $25+ for shipping! so that sucksOriginally Posted by LakeMountD
06-03-2006, 03:48 PM
Do you live in Canadia like me? Because I believe Crowler just announced a flat shipping rate for us that considerably cuts costs on that.Originally Posted by pistonpump
06-03-2006, 03:50 PM
06-03-2006, 04:18 PM
06-03-2006, 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by pistonpump
OHhhh gothca, so its 30 dollar shipping to Hawaii?! Wow that sucks bro.
06-03-2006, 10:47 PM
Wow LakeMountD! That is some SERIOUSLY helpful info and that is a NICE product! Will order soon and add the fish oil, RYR (sounds like I should use short term only), and ALA. MUCH THX!Originally Posted by LakeMountD
Nice ring BTW. I'm a Big Ten fan personally but anyone who has an ACC ring like that should be commended. Kudos for whatever you did to earn that monster!
06-08-2006, 06:47 PM
Read the thread mentioned. So sounds like you like the trib. Someone else mentioned the maca as being along the same strength as fenugreek. and made it sound like fenu and maca are better/stronger than trib. Do you think it really matters which I go with? Also, how about dosing for either?Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
06-21-2006, 09:28 PM
I was reading one of the old AX threads here, and I thought I read that PP isn't too suppressive on the endocrine system. Has there been verification of this via bloodwork?
06-22-2006, 02:25 AM
Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
What is this flat rate you speak of? How much is it? I would be
down for some cycle support is shipping is cheap. Everything that us Canadians want is always only in the USA.
06-22-2006, 08:24 AM
FWIW, I just looked for it but couldn't find it (I have read so much lately...) but I remember reading a PP thread recently whereby a guy did have some work done and everything came back VERY good after PP. There was some negative effect/change as I recall but it was VERY minimal. It/he was vague however...Originally Posted by SubliminalX
06-27-2006, 01:37 AM
I wanna ask u what u think i should use for my pct. I thought of using anab xtremes pct and retain. Im 37 bro so we are around same age. I wanna just go with stuff that dont need a script. Ive decided to go with the 4 weeks of pp. I 'll still do 20 mgs for my 3rd week which begins tomarrow (tues) for me then i figure i'll do 30 mgs for my last week if i see gains stagger. So far its been great man. No sides just sometimes cant sleep to well. No loss of libido so far. Thank god ! Your input is appreciated !
06-27-2006, 01:41 AM
06-27-2006, 05:43 PM
sogone2day is right...I know there are new rules about posts so I'm not too sure where the rubber meets the road in terms of what can/can't be said. I was thinking like you were just a few months ago and sogone2day is right. This site is great with very helpful people, LINKS, and info.Originally Posted by poppydogg
I actually might skip my 4th week. I feel GREAT and strength keeps rising. I get a little anxious about beeing too greedy and was thinking I might save up those tabs for another cycle in the future. Not sure, maybe I should just go for it...
Man...regarding post cycle therapy I just know that everything I have read says to have the Nolva. I plan on using the Nolva with Retain (tapering both), fenugreek, DHEA, and will pick up some Maca in addition to using the support supps of milk thistle, RYR, CoQ10, mulitvitamin, creatine, and hawthorne berry. I REALLY recommend you have some Nolva too. Even if you don't use it but have it on hand bro, I think that's the way to go. I want to tell you that you will be OK with AX PCT and Retain but would feel irresponsible doing so. I have read about some/several people not using the Nolva/SERM but having it on hand just in case. FWIW, I just read a post by LakeMountD titled "My Newest Journal." Put that in the search and find his log/journal and you can see my PCT is similar to his (and MANY others for that matter!) I have thought about doing exactly what your thinking but will run the Nolva. I know my comfort level and I would be a little too nervous not to...Hope this helps.
06-27-2006, 05:58 PM
Yea im same so far. I feel great and no sides !! Weight really isnt up all that much but thickness is awesome and cuts too.
I'll go thru this week and then decide whether to do the 4th and final or just goto pct. So far its been real. Time does fly when all is going greaT !!!
06-27-2006, 05:59 PM
06-27-2006, 08:09 PM
Short story is it helps prevent gyno. Check out the PCT forum.
There is A TON of info (overwhelming in fact) out there. Here are a few links I have found helpful, check them out:
Here is a good summary of Nolva (and AI). Got this in the thread from Mercedesdd titled:
"AI or Nolvadex"
"Keep in mind a SERM like nolva does nothing to lower estrogen levels.. It works by binding to the receptor with a blocking action( more bound sites less for the estrogen floating around in your body to bind to).. An AI works on the aromatase enzyme by blocking the conversion of testosterone into estrogen and will actually lower estrogen levels.. So one could use nolva to prevent gyno ( due to its blocking action in breast tissue) while on a cycle. If you are looking to keep estrogen in check using anabolics that aromatise an AI would do the trick.. Nolva will do nothing to lower estrogen so if you get lots of bloat or symptoms of high estrogen you would want to use an AI!!!"
06-27-2006, 08:41 PM
i live in hawaii (oahu)to but AI is good stuff.... plus it gets here quick... they send out on thursday and you get by monday.. atleast I have on my last to shipments. check em out.. its worth it. and you gotta remember... its 30 bux flate rate if you just buy cycle support.. if you say buy some excell or WPI which i absolutely love.. brings the shipping cost down.. and the cookies are to die forOriginally Posted by pistonpump
06-27-2006, 08:41 PM
06-27-2006, 08:44 PM
I gotta try me some of those cookies...people rave about them! Will order next time I get some Cycle Support.Originally Posted by wrkn4bigrmusles
06-27-2006, 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by wrkn4bigrmusles
DAMN $30 shipping is wierd considering I can get a flat rate of $7.50 to canada on small orders like cycle support.
06-27-2006, 10:35 PM
Originally Posted by sogone2day
considering i get my order in 4 days.. i dont mind. we're an island in the middle of the pacific.. canada is attached to the u.s.a
06-27-2006, 10:39 PM
Gotta get over the pond! I pay big shipping for everything, so I try to get everything in one order, get some cookies and whey in there to make it worth it.Originally Posted by sogone2day
06-29-2006, 12:32 AM
Ok so im thinking im gonna go for the 4th week next tues
then do a pct. Looks like the pct is gonna be anabxtremes retain , rebound xt, all the supps like milkthist,hawthorne,multi, rr yeaast and gonna have the nolva on hand. What u think? Is this ok? Seems like this pct is totally confusing . Way more than the cyc. Thanks
06-30-2006, 03:53 PM
so after cycle.. what do you guys do to rid yourself of the bloat? cause doesnt PP add lots of water?
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