6 week cycle began yesterday

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    6 week cycle began yesterday


    Sorry I forgot to post yesterday. I began my 6 week prohormone cycle:

    Week 1: 80mg M1,4AD/320mg 1-Test (trans)/600mg 1,4andro
    Week 2: 100mg M1,4AD/400mg 1-Test (trans)/900mg 1,4andro
    Week 3-4: 100mg M1,4AD/480mg 1-Test (trans)/900mg 1,4andro
    Week 5-6: 900mg 1,4andro/3gram Tribulus/60mg Nolva (liquid)/ZMA

    In a previous thread in the prohormone section, I noted that I want to use this opportunity to find out how suppressive 1,4andro is. I'm doing this by starting effectively starting PCT while still using 1,4andro but no other prohormones or steroids. Sure it might not work, but it's worth a try, and we'll all learn valuable information.

    Quick question: should I take the M1,4 in 1 dose or 2, and if 1 dose, when should it be taken? Currently I'm taking it in 2 doses, 1 in the morning, 1 in the evening. 1-Test btw, is applied once in the morning after a shower, and once in the evening after a shower. 1,4andro is divided into 3 even doses; morning, noon, and evening.

    I'll be sure to weigh myself at the start of each workout as well as first thing in the morning if I can remember. I'll also post working weights for each exercise.

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    Update on working weights and bodyweight:

    8/9/2004: I started the stack. I did a leg day that evening. I started a new focus on increasing the outer sweep of my quads.

    Close stance squats: 4 sets, final set 475x6
    Close stance hack squats: 4 sets, final set 385x6

    8/10/2004: Lat day.

    Bent over BB row, underhand grip, 75 degree angle: 4 sets, final set 210x6
    Wide grip pulldowns: 4 sets, final set 185x5
    Underhand closegrip pulldowns (chindowns): 4 sets, final set 185x6


    Weight:
    8/10/2004 evening I weighed 188 pounds
    8/11/2004 morning I weighed 183.5 pounds


    Still taking the M1,4AD in 2 doses; 40mg in the morning, 40mg in the evening. Still wondering if this is correct or if 1 dose would be just as effective.
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    keep us posted, interested in seeing your results...its been a while since someone has cycled 1,4andro
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    Chest/Shoulders day, 8/11/2004:

    Dumbell Flat bench: 4 sets, final set 120 pound dumbells (240 ttl) for 2 reps (previous set was 110 pounders, 220 ttl, for 6 though)
    Dumbell Incline bench: 4 sets, final set 6x100 pounders (200 ttl), previous sets all 85 pounders for 10-12 (they don't have any 90s or 95s at the company gym)
    Dumbell Seated Overhead Press: 4 sets, final set 6x70 pounders (140 ttl)
    Seated Arnold Press: 2 sets, final set 6x50 pounders (100 ttl)
    Dumbell Lateral Raise: 2 sets, final set 8x25 pounders

    Post-workout weight, before shake: 190 pounds
    (believe it or not, the shake weighs 1.5 pounds)



    Also, a note. Other supplements I'm taking:

    Creatine Monohydrate 5g/day; postworkout (with about 3 servings of kool aid and 400mg of R-ALA afterwards)
    Taurine 2g/day (it's an insulin sensitizer); lunch
    NOX3 (3g Arginine); pre-workout
    R-ALA (insulin sensitizer and mimmicker); post-workout


    In terms of protein, here's what I supplement (in addition to food):
    20g NitroTech with oatmeal at breakfast
    1 OneWay bar midmorning (32g)
    1 Protein Ice midafternoon (40g)
    50g AllTheWhey Banana Isolate + 12 oz whole milk after lunch
    50g AllTheWhey Banana Isolate + 8 oz water post-workout
    40g Micellean (Micellar Casein) + 8oz milk nightly


    Daily protein intake is 340-380 grams currently.


    Another note: Saturday morning I was 175 pounds at approximately 8% bodyfat and very little water. I'm 5'6.5"
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    Date 8/12/2004

    Morning weight: 185
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    great job keep us updated
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    Still taking the M1,4AD in 2 doses; 40mg in the morning, 40mg in the evening. Still wondering if this is correct or if 1 dose would be just as effective.
    I had much better results from 4 doses of the M1,4ADD. It seems to have a short half life.
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    8/12/2004
    pre-workout weight: 193.5 pounds

    Bicep/Tricep day

    Skull crushers: 4 sets, final set 6x100
    Dumbell Kickbacks: 2 sets, final set 6x30s
    Tricep Rope Pulldown: 2 sets, final set 8x75
    Bicep Barbell Curl: 4 sets, final set 6x90
    Incline Dumbell Curl: 4 sets, final set 8x35s


    Looks like I'm definitely gaining weight...


    4 doses? Wow. I'll try that starting tomorrow. Next week when I up the dose to 100mg though, I'll take 20 monring, 20 noon, 40 preworkout, 20 evening
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    8/13/2004
    forgot to weigh myself this morning. Sorry. I'll weigh myself this afternoon if possible. It won't be all that accurate though because I will have had food and drink.
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    This is interesting. Just to clarify...are you using M14ADD or M1/4ad? I"m assuming it's the former looking at the dosage. So then my question is why are you choosing to stack that with 1,4 andro? Just wanted your thoughts on this. It seems to be really kicking in!!
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    thats alot of 1-test!
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    8/13/2004 evening weight: 193.5
    8/14/2004 morning weight after 2 minute morning piss: 186

    I'm taking M1,4ADDiol, you are correct.

    As for why I'm stacking 1,4andro on there, 4 reasons: 1) added vascularity. 2) increased appetite 3) extra lean gains 4) it uses a different conversion enzyme than M1,4ADDiol does so there is no worry over enzyme competition: 1 diol, 1 dione, and 1 complete steroid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    8/13/2004 evening weight: 193.5
    8/14/2004 morning weight after 2 minute morning piss: 186
    That was one hell of a piss, did you actually see your vascularity increase as you pissed? (JK)

    This is a very interesting log, hope it goes well for you.

    cm5
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    8/14/2004 evening weight: 191

    I didn't eat enough food today IMO. Tomorrow I'll have to be extra sure to eat plenty.

    In terms of effects, my lower back has been hurting me. The pain is identical to how it feels after a long workout. Also, my left shin feels the same way. Starting to notice increased vascularity in my shins oddly enough. Spotted another vein in my right bicep.
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    8/15/2004 morning weight: 188.5

    Wasn't expecting that.
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    Morning weight is going up. WOW!! Can't wait to get on my wild-n-wet bulking stack. You got my scrawny ass salivating!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    8/13/2004 evening weight: 193.5
    8/14/2004 morning weight after 2 minute morning piss: 186

    I'm taking M1,4ADDiol, you are correct.

    As for why I'm stacking 1,4andro on there, 4 reasons: 1) added vascularity. 2) increased appetite 3) extra lean gains 4) it uses a different conversion enzyme than M1,4ADDiol does so there is no worry over enzyme competition: 1 diol, 1 dione, and 1 complete steroid.

    Have you used any of these compounds prior to this stack? If so, how were you affected and what were they stacked with?
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    Never used 1-Test or M1,4

    I used 1,4andro though. I saw a very mild increase in appetite from it and a little bit of vascularity, however at the time I only used 300mg per day.
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    What's your diet look like?
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    See-food diet. Plus what I wrote in a post above about protein.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    See-food diet. Plus what I wrote in a post above about protein.

    Oh I can't wait to start that diet
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    8/16/2004 morning weight: 190

    Midday update - my lowerback has pump all day except when I lie down for a while. Sitting in my car becomes somewhat unbearable after about 20 minutes of driving. Also, my shins burn as if I just ran 6 miles with even the slightest amount of walking. Not sure if this is normal or which compound is the likely culprit.


    Also, as according to plan, bumped morning dose of 1-Test to 200mg (5 sprays) and morning 1,4andro to 300mg (400mg/900mg respectively for daily totals). I switch to the 4 doses per day for M1,4. Daily dose is 100mg as originally planned. 20mg morning, 20mg lunch, 40mg pre-workout, 20mg evening.


    Oh and another note: I'm horny all the time. 24/7 wood. It's somewhat socially embarassing.
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    LOL fantastic....
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    From reading logs of people who have used Dianabol, it appears the lower back pump is a one of the telltale signs that D-bol is working. So aparently the M1,4AD is what's causing the lower back pumps, and I'm thinking likely the culprit for the shin pain as well. I guess this means it's working and converting nicely. Lord knows I'm increasing weight.

    This evening is a leg workout. I'll be doing close stance squats and close stance hack squats like last week. I'll try to pyramid up the weight like last week. Of course, only problem here is that I think my shoulders might not be able to handle all the weight that my legs can. I was working with 475 last week on my last set of squats and 385 for my last set of hack squats. Perhaps I'll see about something along the lines of 505/415 this week.
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    8/16/2004 evening weight: 197
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    Leg day, 8/16/2004

    Close Stance Squats: final set 6x525
    Close Stance Hack Squats: final set 10x405
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    This is going NIIIIIIce.....can't wait to get my M14ADD cycle going. Very inspirational.
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    Yeah, I was pretty happy with the leg workout tonight. Actually I probably could have cranked out another 2 hack squats. I'd be willing to bet I could have gone up to like 455x6

    However, I didn't so for now I just have to use this as the benchmark to beat next week.


    Tomorrow I'm going to take it easy though. My lower back is killing me. I was originally planning back/biceps but I don't think bent over rows would work too well after that squat workout tonight. So I'm going to do Abs and Calves instead. Some simple high rep stuff. I think I'll also be sure to spend a lot of time stretching. I'm feeling tight all over; my flexibility has disappeared lately.
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    8/17/2004 morning weight: 190
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    Did you take some before pics, and do you plan on taking some "after" pics to visually see your progress?
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    Well my before pics are the ones I took for the Mucle & Fitness forum competition. I took those on the Saturday before I started the cycle. I weighed 175 at that time.





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    8/17/2004 evening weight: 196

    Just abs and calves, all bodyweight stuff. Nothing strenuous; my lower back was killing me.

    8/18/2004 morning I forgot to weigh myself.

    I think the 1,4andro just kicked in with a fury. I don't know what else could cause my appetite to go through the roof like it just has today. I just had some breakfast, a protein bar, and 3 donuts and I'm still twitching for more food. I'm going to pix up a protein shake and see if that puts a dent in me. If not, then this will hopefully mean I can stop force-feeding myself.
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    8/18/2004 Back day:

    Underhand Bent over row: 4 sets, final set 6x230
    Lat Pulldown: 4 sets, final set 6x195
    Underhand Closegrip Pulldown (Chin-downs): 4 sets, final set 8x195


    My elbows are starting to give me grief. i.e. they now ache steadily and moreso during a workout. The final set of chindowns was very painful. For chest tomorrow I'll be wearing elbow wraps.
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    8/19/2004 evening weight: 196

    Chest day:

    Barbell Flat Bench: 4 sets, final set 4x275




    Bad news -

    My right elbow now has a constant intense ache. I had to cut the workout short because the exercises became far too painful to continue. I could have done more reps if it hadn't been for the pain. I'm not sure if it is the joint itself that is damaged or if it is possibly my tricep. Either way, I'm pissed now because I have to rest and thus can't take full advantage of the cycle for the next week. I'll continue with the dosage scheme as planned though. But I'm not going to do any exercises which involve my arms in any way. So I'll do legs on Monday, and Abs/calves on Tuesday, but no back/biceps and no chest/triceps. I think I might use the lateral raise machine at some point and possibly the flye machine since neither puts any strain whatsoever on my elbows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    8/19/2004 evening weight: 196

    Chest day:

    Barbell Flat Bench: 4 sets, final set 4x275




    Bad news -

    My right elbow now has a constant intense ache. I had to cut the workout short because the exercises became far too painful to continue. I could have done more reps if it hadn't been for the pain. I'm not sure if it is the joint itself that is damaged or if it is possibly my tricep. Either way, I'm pissed now because I have to rest and thus can't take full advantage of the cycle for the next week. I'll continue with the dosage scheme as planned though. But I'm not going to do any exercises which involve my arms in any way. So I'll do legs on Monday, and Abs/calves on Tuesday, but no back/biceps and no chest/triceps. I think I might use the lateral raise machine at some point and possibly the flye machine since neither puts any strain whatsoever on my elbows.

    Sorry to hear that. Do you supplement any joint stuff? Do you remember any time where you didn't warm up before lifting heavy recently? Injuries really piss me off even when they happen to other people who are making good gains. Hang in there and get some glucosamine, chondriotin sulfate, MSM, and a good collagen supp. Hope that it heals soon.
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    I've been taking Glucosamine and Chondroitin for at least 4 or 5 months now. 1500mg/1200mg respectively. Not taking collagen, is it any good? Not sure what MSM is, it sounds familiar though, I might know it's full name but can't think of anything that fits that acronym atm.

    On closer inspection of the pain, I think it might actually be tendonitis rather than a joint problem. As for not warming up, that could be it. I only did 1 warmup set the when I did back/biceps this week. It was a crappy super light weight too.

    I'm pretty pissed at this problem. I've never broken the 300 mark on barbell flat bench and I was kind of hoping to do so on this cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    I've been taking Glucosamine and Chondroitin for at least 4 or 5 months now. 1500mg/1200mg respectively. Not taking collagen, is it any good? Not sure what MSM is, it sounds familiar though, I might know it's full name but can't think of anything that fits that acronym atm.

    On closer inspection of the pain, I think it might actually be tendonitis rather than a joint problem. As for not warming up, that could be it. I only did 1 warmup set the when I did back/biceps this week. It was a crappy super light weight too.

    I'm pretty pissed at this problem. I've never broken the 300 mark on barbell flat bench and I was kind of hoping to do so on this cycle.

    http://www.msm.com/ArticleDetail.cfm?AID=19

    Collagen is the reciever for the enzymes in Gluc/chon. Hyaluronic acid is supposed to be easier for the body to absorb and replace collagen in the joints.

    one thing that I noticed with the Gluc/chon is that if I take a liquid or gel cap instead of a pressed pill, it seems to work much better.....absorbtion??

    I've also tried EMU oil for similar tendon pains with great success. You have to rub it in the joint/tendon area really hard every night (sometimes morning too).

    I get the extra strength EMU oil and MSM form this site
    http://colloidalsilversolutions.com/ The easiest way to order is to send an e-mail and then Paypal him. There is no shopping cart on the site but delivery is fast. Otherwise you ahve to fill out some crappy form and snail mail it in

    Hope that you feel better VERY soon!!!
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    Just a quick agreement on the glucosamine/chondritin combo, as I recently noticed exactly the same kind of results as SJA mentions. I had taken this supplement at 3 grams per day for 6 months or so, without much in the way of noticable improvements in joint pain, and I had a ton of aching joints, including a sore wrist, elbow, and knee. Fast forward to 2 weeks after switching to a gel cap form of liquid gluc/chon and I've seen HUGE improvements in joint mobility and pain levels, to the point where I no longer have any wrist or elbow pain, and my knee is only sore a little bit of the time (this one is more badly damaged due to some stupidity a summer ago, and will likely never quite be 100%).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian


    My right elbow now has a constant intense ache. I had to cut the workout short because the exercises became far too painful to continue. I could have done more reps if it hadn't been for the pain. I'm not sure if it is the joint itself that is damaged or if it is possibly my tricep. Either way, I'm pissed now because I have to rest and thus can't take full advantage of the cycle for the next week. I'll continue with the dosage scheme as planned though. But I'm not going to do any exercises which involve my arms in any way. So I'll do legs on Monday, and Abs/calves on Tuesday, but no back/biceps and no chest/triceps. I think I might use the lateral raise machine at some point and possibly the flye machine since neither puts any strain whatsoever on my elbows.
    That definitely sucks! Hope it gets to feeling better quickly. You did the right thing by backing off. No use risking further injury. Maybe you could get some backwork in by doing some goodmornings etc. Maybe look at some of the specific lifts you have been doing for a long time and see if cumulative fatigue might not be part of the problem. Some lifts I find to be just murder on the tricep tendons.
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    Bump for status. Are you still on cycle? Healing....hurting???
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