My 8 month, GH/AAS/Igf-1 R3 cycle.
- 08-11-2004, 04:16 AM
- 08-11-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally Posted by einstein1905
- 08-12-2004, 03:37 AM
day 8 of igf-1, vascularity contrinues to increase, the veins i had before are popping out more than ever, and i'm getting new ones i have never seen before.
Since the igf-1 was started my weight has remained constant, even though i upped the calories suddenly from 2700 to around 3150. I do seem a bit slimmer but this may be placebo, but vascularity has def increased so i assume i've dropped some bf%.
The only negative i have to report is that the igf-1 makes me thirsty as hell all day long. Before getting on it, i would hardly ever wake up in the middle of the night to pee, since i started there hasn't been a single night i didn't wake up to pee, or wake up once because i was thirsty. Not that this is a huge problem, i'm just trying to leave as in depth feedback as possible on everything.
08-12-2004, 10:43 PM
I have to agree, you are definately looking skinnier. =) I don't think I have seen you this skinny yet have this much muscle.
08-13-2004, 01:56 AM
wow this is a very interesting thread im not too informed of gh and igf but are you taking gh while on the igf months?
08-13-2004, 02:42 AM
Yes i am. GH and igf-1 can both be used at the same time, in fact they are supposed to work very well together.Originally Posted by BryanM
08-13-2004, 03:33 AM
Whats your IGF dosage like?
08-13-2004, 04:07 AM
- 5'8" 197 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jan 2003
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
Do you think that it could replace HCG, thereby killing two birds with one stone?Oh i almost forgot to mention! When i first saw this i pretty much shrugged it off as false.
"Reverses testicular atrophy
Testicles if shrunken will return to "full swing" so to speak even in the middle of a cycle. If not shrunken they will not shrink during the cycle. This may explain partially why gains are kept after the cycle."
Now i realize this is very true, as i experienced it first hand. My boy's were supressed from a LONG cycle (16 weeks.) I used what little HCG i had in the first week and it didn't make a huge difference. They finally started slowly returning to normal around 2 1/2 weeks into PCT, but since i started the igf-1, i noticed on the 4th day they had returned to full size.
08-13-2004, 04:56 AM
That would be good if you could kill two birds with one stone...helping restore size and help keep gains post cycle.Originally Posted by LCSULLA
08-13-2004, 10:51 AM
Awwweee.... now why cant my girl come on to anabolicminds and post in my threads. Very nice girl.Originally Posted by JblazeGirlie
08-13-2004, 12:38 PM
I use 40mcg ED into the muscle trained, either PWO or first thing in the morning on non-workout days.Originally Posted by Grant
I may up the dosage to 60mcg on my workout days, and 40mcg on non workout days, once i reach the 2 week mark, but i'm not sure if i'm going to yet.
The reason i'm not sure, is this is my very first igf-1 run, and also i'm on GH so so thats probabaly raising my igf-1 levels a bit also, just dont know at what rate, or if it even does since i'm putting igf-1 seperately into my body.
Opinions on this are def welcome!
Last edited by JonBlaze; 08-13-2004 at 02:16 PM.
08-13-2004, 12:42 PM
I honestly have no idea, I never really used HCG because i used to only do small (4 week) cycles, before this past 16 week cutter. So i never really researched it much.Originally Posted by LCSULLA
Einstein1905 will probably know though, so we'll wait for his response.
08-13-2004, 02:49 PM
gh is where it is atOriginally Posted by JonBlaze
the only thing i could think would give you the indestructable feeling would be adrol. but the gains are way different,
gh mainly being lean, oh and the BONE growth.
let us know, i did a small one month cycle of gh about 4 years ago, dude i was literally bending bars and eating ten lb plates.
you will get HELLA strong, i know I did, and i didnt even supplement anything, my diet was jacked, i was an idiot.
keep us posted. really interested.
08-13-2004, 04:31 PM
Honestly my diet used to be **** too, i completely redid it all w/ Bobo's help, and made drastic improvements. It really does seem to be the single factor seperating the big guys in the gym, from the extended lat syndrome, one sleeve folded up on the side of their "stong" bicep, 14" arm punks.Originally Posted by kelsey
I hear a lot of guys talk about "i ate pizza and ice cream and got skinnier and dropped 4% on GH in 6 months," With a very strict diet I cant even imagine how well this cycle will work.
Right now i try to take my bf% and measurements every 2 months. I realize if i do it anymore, i start to obsess over it all the time, and if they haven't improved (which doesn't really happen if you measure every single week), then i tend to freak out, and lose motivation in the gym, or start adding more sets etc. I've been itching to take my measurements lately though, as i'm sure they have drastically improved. We will see in another 3 weeks i suppose =)
As far as strength, now that you mention it, it has slightly improved. I usually dont focus on weight anymore, i realized when i would i'd often sacrifice good form. Lately i've been trying to do extremely slow controlled reps w/ slow negatives while keeping perfect form. (Here is another concept I adopted from Bobo.) Doing it this way makes it hard to notice strength improvement, but i am able to do a few more reps before my muscles get fatigued. Where i would normally last 6-8 reps, i'm doing 9-10 now. Genrally, if for an exercise i can increase past 12 reps, then i add more weight.
08-14-2004, 04:45 AM
Excellent posting JB
My first cycle with IGF last year immediately followed my M1T cycle, I was amazed at the ability to help "the boys" recover, IMO, this could definitely replace "standard" PCT. It was quicker and better gains keeper IMO.
My injection experience was that the best sites to inject were delts and pecs, even then I would randomly experience pain from injections, even with a full syringe of BW, this was more noticeable PWO, I think a full, pumped muscle decreased the injection dispersion and thus increased the pain, it was never unbearable but painfree is the goal.
08-15-2004, 08:12 PM
LOL, yeah if IGF was as cheap as HCG then I'd switch in a heartbeat.
Nice log JB....you have this whole thing set up perfectly....I didn't even know that you were coming off your last cutting cycle...kudos to you...
I also like the fact that you're getting leaner and monitoring your diet in conjunction with that. If I were to notice myself getting leaner, I'd automatically up my cals and freak out...but do like you been and wait it out and see if you can still make/hold gains at a lower caloric range. I'd say to take MORE caliper readings...say EOD or so....I know what you mean by the freaking out if you don't notice a change and all, but in my experience, this is the best way to know exactly how you're body is doing in regards to your diet, macronutrients, etc....as well as other aspects such as how you're body is reacting to the drugs, dosing times, etc....this will all help in the fine tuning of your body IMHO...so, sometimes being anal is GOOD
I'll be checking back man, keep up the good work...
08-15-2004, 08:20 PM
I walked by the mirror to take a morning piss and did a double take. Before it seemed as my cycle was working, but i still had my doubts that it might be placebo. I mean my muscles stayed fuller and vascularity had increased so i knew it was working, but today in the mirror i finally saw some concrete evidence that this stuff is the real deal. My weight has gone from 191 to 193 and i've definately lost a little fat.
Now i didn't add 8lbs in 2 days like some claim they did in other logs i've read. For me personally i'd say as of this point i've experienced about a 3lb muscle gain and 1lb fat loss, this is while eating 3100 calories and only reaching halfway through my cycle. Some may argue that there are variables that could make a person gain or lose 2 lbs, but i dont believe this applies here, as i eat the same thing every single day at the same exact time and also lift the same time every single workout day.
I'm still always thirsty, i've been drinking close to 1.5 gallons a day, where as before i'd only drink about a gallon.
On a weird note, i dont know if its the igf-1 or the GH but my hair has been growing really fast. It seems like i'm getting a haircut every 2 weeks now whereas it would take 3.5 weeks before.
08-15-2004, 08:30 PM
Well for us unlucky people who are losing hair due to MPB - it helps regrow the hair, so maybee it is linked. I know when i did my cycle i regrew hair in my "parking lots" and yes it did seem that my hair all over grew faster. Nice log - keep it up.Originally Posted by JonBlaze
08-15-2004, 08:57 PM
**** if i didn't have to come off, i wouldn't have, lol.Originally Posted by Jergo
08-15-2004, 09:04 PM
I forgot to mention. My recovery ability has also drastically improved as far as soreness goes. I'm sore for 1-2 days tops whereas it normally feels like they've been beaten w/ a hammer for like 3-4 days. Due to this fact my routine has been changed to a 2 days on, 1 day off workout as apposed to the 4x a week M-T-Th-F routine. Basically i just knocked out 1 of off days, not a drastic change.
Also the pumps have subsided. For about 5 days my pumps were so insane i was shortening my workouts. Simply because i was unable to continue, it felt like my muscles were going to pop out of my skin. I actually never get crazy pumps even on AAS so it was kind of a surpise to me, because normally most other logs i've read all stated igf-1 gave pumps, but not nearly as intense as AAS ones.
08-16-2004, 02:20 AM
So which did you like more, as far as cost/benefit ratio and how much you kept and all that: 4 weeker or 16 weeker? What are you going to do in the future I guess I am asking. Because I have always been torn between the 2.Originally Posted by JonBlaze
08-16-2004, 11:41 PM
cost is next to nothing for me as i buy powders. A 16 week test enan cycle is like $5 more than a 4 week prop cycle, lol.
As far as benefits, i do not think a 16 week cutting cycle was necessary. It was meant to only last 8 weeks, but i signed up w/ a certain "trainer," who for some reason decided to put me on a CKD diet even though i was at a pretty low bf% to begin. I followed his plan for 5 weeks which really set me back, as my progress drastically SLOWED. To make up for this, my cycle was extended to get where i wanted to be, thus the 16 week cutting cycle.
For me personally as far as cutting i like 4 week cycles. T-3/Clen for the first 3 weeks stacked w/ fast acting AAS for 4 weeks. Then 1 month of ECA/Y, followed by another t-3/clen/AAS cycle. I feel this is best because most use clen and t-3 for around 3 weeks. Using the AAS to basically spare muscle.
Now as far as bulking, i'd rather use test cyp/enan over prop and run a longer cycle. The gains to me seem so much better.
08-17-2004, 01:59 AM
It wasn't bobo was it? Any chance you can drop the name?Originally Posted by JonBlaze
08-17-2004, 02:33 AM
Wasn't bobo, thats one guy who knows what he's doing. Bobo was actually the one who took my hand and helped me completely redo my diet, and basically got me back on track.Originally Posted by TheUsual
No, theres a few reasons why i wont mention names, i'm sure you can understand why.
Last edited by JonBlaze; 08-17-2004 at 03:02 AM.
08-17-2004, 06:21 AM
Ya, I kind of assumed it wasn't Bobo, his feedback has been so great, but I had to make sure because I am thinking about going with him soon.Originally Posted by JonBlaze
Sorry to sidetrack, continue on with the great log
08-17-2004, 11:59 AM
Hey JB notice any vivid dreams since starting the IGF?? i used to get crazy intense dreams when on it...maybee just me....
08-17-2004, 12:12 PM
No i have not, but this is probabaly due to the GH. I fall into a real deep sleep nightly, and wake up completely refreshed and energetic in the morning.Originally Posted by goldylight
What kind of dreams? Like ZMA dreams, those ones used to be crazy for me. Everynight i'd go to bed, it'd be like watching a new horror flick, lol.
08-17-2004, 12:14 PM
Never took ZMA - but the dreams feel so life like it is scary - i would wake up and be confused if it was reality or not. like one example i had a dream my wife was cheating on me - i woke up pissed as hell at her even tho i knew it was a dream - it was still confusing LOL.....Originally Posted by JonBlaze
08-17-2004, 12:15 PM
Oh and BTW the trick you stated of leaving 2IU of air in the syringe to help shake it up works like a ****ing dream - thanks!
08-17-2004, 12:23 PM
Well this morning i decided to up the dosage to 50mcg from 40mcg, not a huge change. Its kind of hard to pull the plunger to 50mcg since i use the 1cc syringes instead of the 0.5cc ones, but i think i'm getting damn close.
Yesterday my girlfriend came out. Basically i ate real bad all day and didn't get anywhere near 400g of protein. I knew i'd be paying for it in the morning, and could have still tried to eat a little healthier than i did, but since i was on igf-1 I wanted to see if it helped keep the bloat belly/****ty feeling off after a cheat day, it doesn't. Oh well, 1 cheat day after 2 weeks isn't so bad i suppose. Today i'm back on track and eating everything when i'm supposed to be eating it once again.
08-20-2004, 09:32 PM
08-21-2004, 02:14 AM
THis is really kick ass.... thanks for makin it so detailed! I am interested in the IGF as Im going to be using it in PCT. Do you ever check your ketones?
08-21-2004, 03:54 AM
Actually i did periodically from day 3-10 several times during the day, i just didn't mention it because i figured no one cared.Originally Posted by Mr.Sparkle
Basically on days i measured, I was showing trace amounts (0<K<5) throughout the day up until my igf-1 injection. This then went to a small amount (5<K<10) around 1.5 hours after my igf-1 injection and remained there until about 6 or so hours after injection. This seemed to be the case every single day i measured, at which point I no longer saw a reason to keep going.
For those of you reading that dont understand the point of this or what the hell i'm talking about, i'll give a quick summary which will be extremely basic at best. Ketones result when the body uses protein as fuel. Basically this means that the body has burned enough fat that it is now now using another source for fuel, more specifically protein from the muscle tissue. You only want to measure a small amount, only enough to show that fat is effectively being burned, which was the case for me while on igf-1.
I also monitored blood glucose levels for 3 days (my fingers couldn't take anymore) if anyone is curious about those number.
Last edited by JonBlaze; 08-21-2004 at 04:19 AM.
08-21-2004, 12:33 PM
I want to see the BG numbers for sure.
Back to ketones, did it make a difference if you bumped up your carbs?
Also I dont remember reading it but are you lathargic in the morning?
Also I thought that some ketostix had BG levels on them? :unsure: I thought I remember reading that some where.
08-22-2004, 07:31 PM
They might, i'm not sure but i've never heard of these. My ketostix didn't have BG stuff on em.Originally Posted by Mr.Sparkle
No i was not lethargic in the morning, this may be due to the fact that i'm on GH.
08-22-2004, 07:41 PM
Nothing really new to report, it seems basically this stuff worked best for me from beginning up until around day 15 or so, the past 4 days i have not noticed a difference in anything. From day 15 until today i had bumped up the dosage to 60mcg, and have not noticed any effects. I find this extremely funny, because normally people say they notice effects until about day 30 or so, and the best transformation doesn't happen until around the 3rd week. For me personally, i noticed the most about a week earlier than everyone else, yet stopped making new progress about a week before everyone else also. I will continue the igf-1 for maybe another 2-3 days, at which point if i dont notice much, i'll come off.
Maybe my calories needed to be upped some more, i'm around 3200 and 400g of protein, but i still think i'd notice a little something even at 3200 calories, especially as far as fatloss.
08-24-2004, 09:10 PM
Came off the igf-1 today. I think i'm gonna drop my calories down to 2700 until i go on cycle. I also took all my measurements since i've started my Gh cycle about a month and a half ago.
Now a quick summary of the igf-1. For me personally i didn't gain 17lbs of muscle and strength hardly increased. My weight went from around 191 to 193.5, yet bodyfat dropped 0.7%, i mainly noticed fatloss in my lovehandles, yet vascularity has improved all over. I'm assuming since i gained 2.5 lbs yet lost around 1.5 lbs of fat, that the net gain of muscle is 4lbs. A 4lb muscle gain and a 1.5lb fatloss is not too shabby for something that lasted 3 weeks. Since i have started my cycle, arms have gone from 17 1/4 to almost 17 1/2. Waist has lost between 1-2/8th". I will only list these two measurements before i know the very exact location i take the measurement. W/ something like my thighs, measuring a cm above or below where i measured last time would give a completely different number, so that is why only the above two measurements have been listed.
My favorite part of this cycle was the fact that after injecting into a bodypart it would stay pumped for around 3 days afterwards. Also vascularity got crazy, as i said before i now have new veins in my thighs and shoulders i had never seen before.
I'll post feedback again in a couple days, stating how well i'm holding on to my gains. I read a thread on another board where the guy claimed he lost all the weight he gained while on igf-1, and also gained back the fat w/o changing anything. Normally i would dismiss this as the person being a dumbass that had no idea what was going on, but the post was made by a very respected bro. I completely trust he did everything the correct way. This is the complete opposite of everything i've read about igf-1 which says usually follows a "what u get is what you keep" mentality. So we will see how my gains hold up for me.
08-24-2004, 09:31 PM
What is your BF? What are your measurements? ie calves, quads, chest, waist and forarms?
And the thread you were reffering too was I posting in it? As if not I would like a link...
I for one cannot wait for IGF... I think with out slin the results are smaller... which is fine by me.
And last but not least I saw you on AR glad youre over there a little too!!!!
08-24-2004, 09:36 PM
bf is around 9% Measurements are all posted in the very first post in this thread.Originally Posted by Mr.Sparkle
And yes u were in the other thread where some said they did not hold on to their gains.
08-24-2004, 10:30 PM
Thanks for the info.... sorry I forgot it was up front.
Looks to me that we are the same size !
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