12 wk pre-contest transformation

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by MarBaSxx View Post
    i dont really see alot of lean muscle either
    Guys... guys... guys... don't be hating, LOL! I appreciate all your comments & helpful tips, etc. I really do, but I have done this before, I agree this time around I gave myself a little higher goal than last time, but I can do this! Also, I will be carb cycling my last 3 wks. As far as the gyno is concerned mentioned in another post... I am on an anti-estrogen post cycle (Finaflex PCT) all the way through my 12wks and will continue on it for a month after I finish and if I see any hints of anything, I have Letrozole (estrogen blocker) & Cabaser (progesterone blocker) that I can take as necessary! This is not my first rodeo!


  2. Im sub'd bro.. I wanna see you make this thing happen.. You got balls posting up yourself for all to critique!!
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  3. awesome... thats an impressive physique you had. Gonna be great seeing you re-achieve that, especially with more lean mass expected.

    i dont doubt you bro.. with the immense amount of knowledge youve displayed in other threads, im sure you have the wisdom and drive to pull this off... just KEEP it this time lol
    Suffer now.. and live like a champion later.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    awesome... thats an impressive physique you had. Gonna be great seeing you re-achieve that, especially with more lean mass expected.

    i dont doubt you bro.. with the immense amount of knowledge youve displayed in other threads, im sure you have the wisdom and drive to pull this off... just KEEP it this time lol
    Thank You! This time around, I definitely plan on keeping it!

  5. Quote Originally Posted by PumpDogg View Post
    Im sub'd bro.. I wanna see you make this thing happen.. You got balls posting up yourself for all to critique!!
    Thanks Bro... Whether I hit my mark of dropping 13% body fat in 12wks or not... I'm not going out without a fight! I'm totally pleased with my first week's progress, I'll really take a step back and see where I am at the half-way point, that way I'll have 6wks left in case I need to get a little more extreme/drastic with my cardio/diet/supplements! My goal is to be below 9% at the 6wk half-way point! I promise to keep this log up and with as much detail as possible for all to see!
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  6. you GAINED almost 4lbs of MUSCLE in ONE WEEK on 1100 cals?

    not only that but you lost 3 lbs of fat?

    i've never had to use this but :

    For me, the action IS the juice.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    you GAINED almost 4lbs of MUSCLE in ONE WEEK on 1100 cals?

    not only that but you lost 3 lbs of fat?

    i've never had to use this but :


    I was wondering the same thing. Somebody's calculations seem off a bit.

  8. i can tell from the pictures that he lost fat but it's obvious that the bodyfat % numbers are off. Which is usually the case cuz most methods of measuring bodyfat are just plain unreliable and inaccurate.

    Last time i used the electronic impulse BF test it said i was 16% lol... i do not trust those, and i do not trust calipers either. Calipers will do stupid things like peg a chubby guy at 9%. So the only measurement I trust, submersion, is the one that nobody does.
    Mostly answered PM's
    Don't post on my profile, I don't read that stuff, PM me instead
    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot

  9. OK, first off this is not electric impedance Body Fat testing, as I stated before, it is a computer calculation that utilizes: height, weight, 7 point caliper measurement sites and the body measurements I have listed. Next, who in the world said I was eating 1,100 calories a day??? When I calculated my calories I came up with somewhere in the range of 2,200 calories give or take 100. Finally, I am not skewing my #'s, I get measured from the same trainer and I log them, if they are off, then they will be consistently off and lets just see how this turns out, lets let the final weight, measurements, percentages, & pictures do the real talking! One more thing, if anyone thinks I am using old pictures and I'm bigger or leaner now in order to make it look better, just tell me something you would like me to hold in a picture, I'll hold something different each week to prove the time frame is accurate. I'm not 100% sure how all this will turn out, but one thing I can say is I'm being both extremely detailed and completely honest! Thank You and enjoy the rest of my trial!

    AL - ScottyDoc

  10. Day 10: 08-011-2010

    Today and tomorrow I am working my biceps and triceps into my back and chest workout so I can do light legs on Friday and have Saturday free to go Kayaking. Also, I began my workout with 10 mins on the Torso cycle again to warm up my shoulders and upper body.

    Today I worked my back, biceps & gastroc muscles.
    Exercise 1: Lat pull downs (wide grip)
    Set 1 - 100 lbs for 20 reps
    Set 2 - 120 lbs for 20 reps
    Set 3 - 140 lbs for 20 reps
    Set 4 - 160 lbs for 15 reps
    Set 5 - 200 lbs for 10 reps
    Set 6 - 240 lbs for 6 reps, immediately followed by 180 lbs for 11 reps (failure)
    Exercise 2: Nautilus (extremely wide grip / high seated rows)
    Set 1 - 140 lbs for 15 reps
    Set 2 - 140 lbs for 15 reps
    Set 3 - 140 lbs for 15 reps
    Exercise 3: Nautilus Seated close grip row (plate loaded)
    Set 1 - 3 plates for 15 reps
    Set 2 - 4 plates for 10 reps
    Set 3 - 3 plates for 15 reps
    Exercise 4: Nautilus Lat Pull down (plate loaded)
    Set 1 - 3 plates on each side for 8 reps
    Set 2 - 2 plates & a quarter on each side for 12 reps
    Set 3 - 2 plates & a quarter on each side for 10 reps
    Exercise 5: Lat pull downs (close grip)
    Set 1 - 130 lbs for 10 reps (5 each side, then 5 straight down to center)
    Set 2 - 130 lbs for 10 reps (5 each side, then 5 straight down to center)
    Set 3 - 130 lbs for 10 reps (5 each side, then 3 straight down to center)
    Exercise 6: Preacher curl machine
    Set 1 - 110 lbs for 12 reps
    Set 2 - 110 lbs for 10 reps
    Set 3 - 110 lbs for 10 reps
    Set 4 - 110 lbs for 8 reps
    Exercise 7: Db Hammer curls
    Set 1 - 35 lbs each arm for 10 reps
    Set 2 - 30 lbs each arm for 10 reps
    Set 3 - 30 lbs each arm for 8 reps immediately followed by 20 lbs for 10 reps each arm
    Exercise 8: Single arm cable bicep curls
    Set 1 - 40 lbs each arm for 12 reps
    Set 2 - 35 lbs each arm for 10 reps
    Set 3 - 30 lbs each arm for 10 reps
    Exercise 7: Calf raises (on calf machine)
    Set 1 - 170 lbs for 10 reps (each calf at a time) x 3 no break
    Set 2 - 150 lbs for 10 reps (each calf at a time) x 3 no break
    Set 3 - 130 lbs for 10 reps (each calf at a time) x 3 no break

    The workout took about 1 hour & 15 mins, then I did one hour of cardio (interval training) on a tread mill. I did 2 mins @ level 15 incline & 4.2 mph, then 2 mins of level 10 incline @ 4.2 mph and so on for the full 60 minutes.
    Diet:
    Meal 1 - 2 scoops Finaflex Whey Max & 3/4 cup of oatmeal
    Meal 2 - 2 scoops Finaflex Whey Max & 3/4 cup of oatmeal (post workout)
    Meal 3 - 6 oz. Lean London Broil with 1.5 cups green beans
    Meal 4 - 2 cans of light tuna in water & 1 cup raw brocoli
    Meal 5 - 6 egg whites / 1 yolk & 1 can tuna & 1/4 cup salsa
    Meal 6 - 2 scoops Finaflex Whey Max with water (pre-sleep)
    All through the day completed 2.5 gallons water

  11. Your log is great bro,Keep it up,

  12. Quote Originally Posted by ZamaMan View Post
    Wow 12 weeks is crazy agressive if you want to get down to a semi contest shape. Much higher than 17% bf. Your probably around 25% which means you go alot more fat to lose than you originally planned on. You will probably need to get down to 180 lb start looking good.
    Deit looks pretty good so far. Didn't recognize most of your supps. Is the epi you posted ther steroid epi? If so muscle loss will be not even something to worry about as long as your getting your protein and lifting heavy. I would think about dropping your carbs and going into a protein sparing modified fast which essentially means eat only protein. Maybe around 225 grams or so no carbs or fat. Only 1 serving of milk or cottage cheese. Supplement with 1 gram or pottasium pills. Take some calcium, magnisuim and fish oil pills as well.
    More Info on this kind of crazy diet can be found on Lyle mcdonalds rapid fat loss handbook. I think it's the only diet that will have a chance at getting you anywhere near contest shape in 12 weeks. Shoot for 2.5 lb of fat loss a week which is crazy but do able with a perfect diet.
    Let me know if you need any help

    This is where the 1100 calories came from, not the OP.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    SPONSORED... 12 week pre-contest diet, supplementation & exercise log:
    Start Date: 08-02-2010
    Sponsored Trial: by... Albert Scott, D.C.
    Today’s Date: 08-09-2010 (End of week 1)

    2nd week’s weight / measurements / stats update

    2nd week Stats:
    Height - 74 in.
    Bodyweight - 234 lbs
    Lean Body Mass - 198.4 lbs
    Fat Mass - 35.6 lbs
    Body Fat % - 15.2%

    Measurements: (taken non-flexed)
    Neck - 16.0 in.
    Shoulders - 53.0 in.
    Chest - 45.8 in.
    Abdomen - 41.0 in.
    Waist - 38.8 in.
    Hips - 43.5 in.
    Bicep (R) - 15
    Thigh (R) - 23.5
    Calfs (R) - 16.25

    OK, so according to the above statistics, in 1 wk (7 days), I lost 3 lbs of bodyweight, increased my lean body mass by 3.8 lbs, and lowered my fat mass by 6.4 lbs. Although I am extremely pleased with these results, I am not expecting this trend to continue, it is too early in the game to make any assumptions. I personally believe fat was lost and some water weight was moved around (due to supplementation) and re-distributed. The technique used to test me is a computerized generated formula utilizing height, weight, a 7 point caliper measurements, & the above listed tape measurements of the body, therefore there is no precise way to determine water weight & its distribution. I am very confident though that this method of testing is accurate (meaning it will accurately give measurements taken week to week, as in consistent) in order to effectively gauge my progress. Oh, and I am and will continue to be tested by the same trainer, again consistency (Sorry I forgot to mention all that in my very first / initial post as it is important information). Next we have my body measurements where I lost 0.5 inches in my neck, lost 2.5 inches in my shoulders, lost 1.0 inches in my chest, lost 1.5 inches in my abdomen, lost 1.25 inches in my waist, lost 0.0 inches in my hips, gained 0.75 inches in my thigh, and gained 0.15 inches in my calves.


    This is the part that doesn't make any sense on paper. Maybe it's just how you worded it. It's impossible to put on 3.8 lbs of lean mass in one week and drop fat mass by 6.4 lbs at the same time. The only possible scenario is yeah you dropped 3 lbs of fat mass and water. I think this is what is tripping us up on how you are presenting it to us. I get that the procedure to determine BF and lean mass may be flawed, and if you are consistent with it, you should see a trend as you go.

    It is definitely a lofty goal and wish you luck.

  14. Wow lets see how this all turns out is all I can say.

    Best of luck scottydoc u def knew how to do it before.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by youngandfree View Post
    This is the part that doesn't make any sense on paper. Maybe it's just how you worded it. It's impossible to put on 3.8 lbs of lean mass in one week and drop fat mass by 6.4 lbs at the same time. The only possible scenario is yeah you dropped 3 lbs of fat mass and water. I think this is what is tripping us up on how you are presenting it to us. I get that the procedure to determine BF and lean mass may be flawed, and if you are consistent with it, you should see a trend as you go.

    It is definitely a lofty goal and wish you luck.
    Another possible explanation is that with the addition of a lot of water and AAS, there may be some some water retention in the muscles, thus increasing FFM- fat free mass, which would create a false reading and make it look like muscle gain.

    easy to put on 3 pounds of water early in a cycle
    Suffer now.. and live like a champion later.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    OK, first off this is not electric impedance Body Fat testing, as I stated before, it is a computer calculation that utilizes: height, weight, 7 point caliper measurement sites and the body measurements I have listed. Next, who in the world said I was eating 1,100 calories a day??? When I calculated my calories I came up with somewhere in the range of 2,200 calories give or take 100. Finally, I am not skewing my #'s, I get measured from the same trainer and I log them, if they are off, then they will be consistently off and lets just see how this turns out, lets let the final weight, measurements, percentages, & pictures do the real talking! One more thing, if anyone thinks I am using old pictures and I'm bigger or leaner now in order to make it look better, just tell me something you would like me to hold in a picture, I'll hold something different each week to prove the time frame is accurate. I'm not 100% sure how all this will turn out, but one thing I can say is I'm being both extremely detailed and completely honest! Thank You and enjoy the rest of my trial!

    AL - ScottyDoc
    i apologize that i mistakenly thought you were on a 1100 cal diet. you were perceived as putting up physiologically impossible body recompositioning numbers - this, coupled with your extremely aggressive goals, made me skeptical. however, you appear to be a disciplined contender. keep at it and good luck!
    For me, the action IS the juice.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    Another possible explanation is that with the addition of a lot of water and AAS, there may be some some water retention in the muscles, thus increasing FFM- fat free mass, which would create a false reading and make it look like muscle gain.

    easy to put on 3 pounds of water early in a cycle
    Smartest response Ive seen on Anabolic minds.com constructive aswell. Wel done. What a good point, ppl drink more water to flush out fat while cutting, your body will fill up with water, but its a good thing. But this will only take two or three days.

    Take a picture with your finaflex whey max tub.

    Whats happening??

  18. Day 11: 08-12-2010

    Today I am working my biceps, forearms, & chest, so I can do light legs on Friday and have Saturday free to go Kayaking. Also, I began my workout with 10 mins on the Torso cycle again to warm up my shoulders and upper body.

    Today I worked my chest & biceps, & forearms
    Exercise 1: Incline Nautilus Chest press
    Set 1 - 100 lbs for 20 reps
    Set 2 - 140 lbs for 20 reps
    Set 3 - 180 lbs for 15 reps
    Set 4 - 200 lbs for 12 reps
    Set 5 - 220 lbs for 8 reps
    Set 6 - 220 lbs for 8 reps, immediately followed by 180 lbs for 10 reps (failure)
    Exercise 2: Incline cable Pec flys
    Set 1 - 35 lbs each side for 20 reps
    Set 2 - 45 lbs each side for 18 reps
    Set 3 - 50 lbs each side for 15 reps
    Set 4 - 50 lbs each side for 15 reps
    Exercise 3: Decline Nautilus Chest press
    Set 1 - 100 lbs for 15 reps
    Set 2 - 120 lbs for 12 reps
    Set 3 - 140 lbs for 10 reps
    Set 4 - 140 lbs for 10 reps, immediately followed by 100 lbs for 9 reps (failure)
    Exercise 4: Decline cable Pec flys
    Set 1 - 35 lbs each side for 20 reps
    Set 2 - 45 lbs each side for 15 reps
    Set 3 - 45 lbs each side for 15 reps
    Set 4 - 45 lbs each side for 11 reps, immediately followed by 30 lbs each side for 11 reps (failure)
    Exercise 5: Preacher curl machine
    Set 1 - 50 lbs for 20 reps
    Set 2 - 80 lbs for 20 reps
    Set 3 - 110 lbs for 12 reps
    Set 4 - 130 lbs for 10 reps
    Set 5 - 130 lbs for 8 reps, immediately followed by 95 lbs for 6 reps (failure)
    Exercise 6: Db hammer curls
    Set 1 - 35 lbs each arm for 15 reps
    Set 2 - 35 lbs each arm for 15 reps
    Set 3 - 35 lbs each arm for 12 reps
    Set 4 - 35 lbs each arm for 10 reps, immediately followed by 25 lbs each arm for 10 reps
    Exercise 7: Single arm cable bicep curls
    Set 1 - 40 lbs each arm curls for 15 reps
    Set 2 - 40 lbs each arm curls for 13 reps
    Set 3 - 40 lbs each arm curls for 11 reps
    Set 4 - 40 lbs each arm curls for 10 reps
    Exercise 8: Forearms
    4 sets of curling up a weight on a rope, 15 lbs, then immediately letting it down and curling it the opposite way, then immediately back again the original way, then immediately back again the reverse way (hitting both the wrist flexors & extensors)

    The workout took about 1 hour & 15 minutes, then I did one hour of cardio (interval training) on a cross-fit. Machine like a stepper with the arms and legs working together legs going in a circular fashion like running while arms are just going forwards and back.

    Diet:
    Meal 1 - 2 scoops Finaflex Whey Max & 3/4 cup of oatmeal
    Meal 2 - 2 scoops Finaflex Whey Max with water (post workout)
    Meal 3 - 6 oz. Lean London Broil with 1.5 cups raw brocoli
    Meal 4 - 2 cans of light tuna in water & 2 cups raw spinach
    Meal 5 - Salad with 6 egg whites, 1 yolk, 2 cans of tuna & 4 cups of romaine lettuce
    Meal 6 - 2 scoops Finaflex Whey Max with water (pre-sleep)
    All through the day completed 2.5 gallons water

  19. Day 12: 08-13-2010

    Today I worked my legs light.
    Exercise 1 & 2: Hip aBduction & aDduction machines (worked straight through, no breaks between sets)
    Set 1 - 250 lbs for 30 reps - aB
    Set 2 - 205 lbs for 25 reps - aD
    Set 3 - 250 lbs for 30 reps - aB
    Set 4 - 205 lbs for 25 reps - aD
    Set 5 - 250 lbs for 30 reps - aB
    Set 6 - 205 lbs for 25 reps - aD
    Exercise 3: Leg Curls
    Set 1 - 80 lbs each leg for 15 reps
    Set 2 - 100 lbs each leg for 15 reps
    Set 3 - 110 lbs each leg for 12 reps
    Set 4 - 110 lbs each leg for 10 reps, immediately followed by 70 lbs each leg for 15 reps
    Exercise 4: Leg Extensions
    Set 1 - 150 lbs for 15 reps (toes in)
    Set 2 - 150 lbs for 15 reps (toes out)
    Set 3 - 150 lbs for 15 reps (toes in)
    Set 4 - 150 lbs for 15 reps (toes out)
    Set 5 - 130 lbs for 15 reps (toes in)
    Set 6 - 130 lbs for 15 reps (toes out)
    Exercise 5: Nautilus Leg Kick Backs (glutes)
    Set 1 - 190 lbs each leg for 15 reps
    Set 2 - 190 lbs each leg for 15 reps
    Set 3 - 190 lbs each leg for 15 reps

    The workout took about 40 minutes, then I did one hour of cardio (interval training) on a tread mill. I did 2 mins @ level 15 incline & 4.5 mph, then 2 mins of level 10 incline @ 4.5 mph and so on for the full 60 minutes.

    Diet:
    Meal 1 - 2 scoops Finaflex Whey Max & 3/4 cup of oatmeal
    Meal 2 - 2 scoops Finaflex Whey Max with water (post workout)
    Meal 3 - 8 oz. grill chicken breast with 1.5 cups raw spinach
    Meal 4 - 2 cans of light tuna in water & 1.5 cup raw brocoli
    Meal 5 - Omlet with 6 egg whites, 1 yolk, 2 cans of light tuna in water & 1.5 cup raw spinach (w/lemon juice) on top of omlet
    Meal 6 - 2 scoops Finaflex Whey Max with water (pre-sleep)
    All through the day completed 2.5 gallons water

  20. i like the diet format.. the "stairstepper-like" machine sounds like an elliptical

    nice numbers on the nautilis press... do you use free weights for chest at all?
    Suffer now.. and live like a champion later.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrinks View Post
    Smartest response Ive seen on Anabolic minds.com constructive aswell. Wel done. What a good point, ppl drink more water to flush out fat while cutting, your body will fill up with water, but its a good thing. But this will only take two or three days.

    Take a picture with your finaflex whey max tub.

    Whats happening??
    Thanks bro.. im sure if you look around a bit more, youll see many intelligent posts as there are some very knowledgable individuals on this forum
    Suffer now.. and live like a champion later.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    i like the diet format.. the "stairstepper-like" machine sounds like an elliptical

    nice numbers on the nautilis press... do you use free weights for chest at all?
    I tore my chest clean off the bone about 3 yrs ago, chest is completely healed and fine, I never go super heavy anymore, not like I used to, lately I have been sticking to machines for chest mainly because ever since I tore my Left Pec, my left shoulder kills me, so I keep it to machines to eliminate any possibilities of losing control and injuring myself again! Besides, the only part of my body I really want to grow is my legs, the rest, once lean, looks fine! I mean I am way past wanting to look like a freak and get huge, I much prefer the lean & mean look, besides, it isn't like I'm small, even when I am lean! Check my pictures and you'll see a pretty scar right where my pec and delt meet, they had to go in and fish out the ligament and use 2 titanium staples to reattach it to my humerus! In hind-sight, tearing my chest was probably a good thing, I know sounds crazy, but I was lifting wayyyy too heavy for my own good, why, I wasn't trying to be a powerlifter, because that is how they taught us at LSU when I played football, hard to break old habits, took a major injury to smarten up. Anyway, it forced me to start lifting lighter and gave me the motivation to change my physique from a larger, fatter self, with lots of power, to a little smaller, much, much leaner self with a lot of stamina! All around, I am in way better shape now, than I was when I was lifting so damn heavy. I just wish my shoulder didn't hurt so damn much! Believe me, you know from previous posts, I know what I am doing, and what I am talking about when it comes to musculoskeletal injuries, but this F*@Ker just won't heal! I even sprained my wrist a few months ago and took like 6 wks off of the gym (another reason why I got so fat and let myself go on top of the new marriage) and it still didn't heal! It might just be one of those injuries that I will have to ride out as long as possible and inevitably have to have surgery. Oh well, is what it is, right now I'm just doing the best I can with what I have! Oh, & it is a type of elliptical machine, just new and different than any other I had ever seen, I love that damn thing, it works every muscle in my body, I never get sore, pumps that lactic acid right on out, love it, love it, love it!

  23. yea i noticed the scar the first time i looked at the pictures.. i remember you talking about a shoulder/chest injury in another thread.

    I think youre doing the smartest thing using machines and not goin too heavy.. hopefully it will strenghten the connective tissue over time and rehab it so you can go a little heavier if desired. Question: what were you doing when you tore it? in the middle of a set? concentric? eccentric?

    Doc, please chunk your post into seperate paragraphs like this! lol
    Suffer now.. and live like a champion later.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    yea i noticed the scar the first time i looked at the pictures.. i remember you talking about a shoulder/chest injury in another thread.

    I think youre doing the smartest thing using machines and not goin too heavy.. hopefully it will strenghten the connective tissue over time and rehab it so you can go a little heavier if desired. Question: what were you doing when you tore it? in the middle of a set? concentric? eccentric?

    Doc, please chunk your post into seperate paragraphs like this! lol
    I was going further than I normally go, I was working with some younger guy who was pushing me to continue when my body told me to stop. I got my normal 3 sets of 10, 8, 6 reps incline with 125 dumbells, after warm up of course, but when I normally finish with lighter machine flat and machine decline, I followed him and did 125's dumbells for 2 more sets of flat, then I was using 100's for a last set of 12 reps, and on the 8th rep, with plenty enough strength to finish with 12, I lost control of the dumbells and tried to regain control and BAM... I tore it just like that! It didn't hurt when I tore it, I can only explain that because I tore it off the bone versus ripping/tearing the actual muscle! I mean don't get me wrong, I didn't like the feeling, I knew it was torn, but was only hurting when I moved the wrong way, either way I drove myself to the hospital where they took x-rays, which I knew was stupid, because X-rays can only see bone, not soft tissue, and I knew it was a soft tissue injury. Needless to say, I sought an MRI on my own about a week later and it was completely avulsed/torn, so I knew I needed to see a surgeon to get it fixed and I did, hence the scar! Well that is how it happen and I promise myself it would never happen again, because I knew logically there was no reason to go heavy anymore, but still had that old school mindset that I had to go heavy, when in actuality I could get just as good of a workout going lighter for more reps, and that is how I stupidly had to learn the hard way! Old habits die hard my friend, I mean if you read any real or good bodybuilding testimonies they will always agree that they started off heavy to get the mass, but once they aquired the mass, they grew more and maintained their mass with lighter weight and higher reps, which is now my modo!!!!

  25. Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    Doc, please chunk your post into seperate paragraphs like this! lol
    Yeah... my bad, I tend to ramble and it would make it easier if I spaced out my thoughts, I'll try to work on that, LOL!
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