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    precontest prep... first comp...


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    9% 175lbs

    low carb? or carb cycling?

    can anyone send me a link on what to do exactly.... with water, salt, and what days to cheat, when to start increasing carbs..... all new to me... and I have been reading both ways and im not sure....

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    help?

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    dont make me wing it lol

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    For starters...don't think you can "cheat". When you are damn lean and deep into your diet is when you should start thinking of incorporating a "structured refeed". This could be (rough example) something like doubling the amount of carbs you're running for the day or just doubling the post wo meal with clean carbs!

    Dont worry about water/salt etc for your first show. Just keep drinking lots of water for now and keep salt just as it's been, you'll be fine.

    Increase carbs? If anything you would be decreasing carbs most likely as the diet progresses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    24
    9% 175lbs

    low carb? or carb cycling?

    can anyone send me a link on what to do exactly.... with water, salt, and what days to cheat, when to start increasing carbs..... all new to me... and I have been reading both ways and im not sure....
    Noobs lower their carbs. I suggest u go to Parillo.com and read up on his free articles on how to. So much bad info floating around on this board about cutting.

    You want to keep carbs high but super clean which means all complex carbs and fibrous carbs too. Protein levels should remain typical at 1-1.5g per lb of mass. Each meal u want to eat fiber and protein with each carb. Keep fats as low as possible - This is the key to getting lean as well as timing of exercise.

    Purchase MCT oil to give u the extra calories u need to function and maintain ALL of your hard earned muscle.

    Remember carbs and protein are muscle sparing - ESPECIALLY carbs. Keep em high and fat low. Cardio at 45min daily.

    One month out you need to remove nearly all starchy carbs from ur diet and go almost exclusively to fibrous carbs. When u get to this point you'll need the MCT oil to keep ur muscle from eating itself since u wont have enough carbs to give u instant energy. The point of reducing the carbs SOME is to reduce glucose levels for more hours throughout the day.

    Ur body will draw from its fat reserves when ur glucose is low or empty. You have two places for glucose, the muscle and the liver. Once they run out u start feeding off fats for low intensity exercise and amin acids for high intensity stuff which is why most guys look pathetic when they cut!

    So u need to time ur cardio for depleted glycogen moments like first thing AM or post-workout.

    For carb-loading pre-comp. 5 days out u can load back up on long-chain sugars like oatmeal, sweet potatoes, etc to fill the glycogen stores up again.

    For water-flushing just drink lots of water right up to the evening before comp and cut water intake by 1/2 the normal amount that u normally drink. Your body will keep processing water like normal for a few hours after and use up ur water storage overnight. Drink water normally day of the show.

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    I checked the website... I have to buy the stuff for nutrition diet

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    Quote Originally Posted by madds87
    24
    9% 175lbs

    low carb? or carb cycling?

    can anyone send me a link on what to do exactly.... with water, salt, and what days to cheat, when to start increasing carbs..... all new to me... and I have been reading both ways and im not sure....
    Hire a coach
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    hahahaha..... yall are terrible on advice.... lol..... nvm....

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    Lots of different info out there. I personally don't like lowering my fats that much. Low fats=low test. And I started cutting my water back 2 days prior to my show. I also carb depleted the last week and carbed up a few days prior.

    So as you can see everyone will have different suggestions as what to do. You will just have to take what you feel comfortable with and adjust each time you compete. Very few can time their diet were they peak exactly when they need to.






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    Quote Originally Posted by madds87
    hahahaha..... yall are terrible on advice.... lol..... nvm....
    im talking through a nitritionist.
    thats free.... soooo booyyah!

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    Yeah it's not exact man, I'm struggling right now bc my coach is 3,000 miles away. Last time he helped me we saw each other almost daily & it was almost 6.5 yrs ago and my body has changed.

    Face to face with someone who has experience is best, imo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water
    Yeah it's not exact man, I'm struggling right now bc my coach is 3,000 miles away. Last time he helped me we saw each other almost daily & it was almost 6.5 yrs ago and my body has changed.

    Face to face with someone who has experience is best, imo
    yeah he works out at my gym... I take off my shirt and he judges from looks and tell me where im lagging and where im gaining... hes helping me with my diet... right now im'sticking to intermittent / cbl dieting.... just lowering my carbs lower to about 200 I think... 300 isnt working.... I was thinking about splitting the carbs up instead of just after the workout. maybe 50 simple carbs before workout and 150 after? lol im not sure... what yall think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    yeah he works out at my gym... I take off my shirt and he judges from looks and tell me where im lagging and where im gaining... hes helping me with my diet... right now im'sticking to intermittent / cbl dieting.... just lowering my carbs lower to about 200 I think... 300 isnt working.... I was thinking about splitting the carbs up instead of just after the workout. maybe 50 simple carbs before workout and 150 after? lol im not sure... what yall think?
    I'm far from knowing exacts on diet, but yes I would recommend splitting it up. It will deffinately help with your workouts too to get some carbs in you pre w/o.











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    Quote Originally Posted by madds87

    yeah he works out at my gym... I take off my shirt and he judges from looks and tell me where im lagging and where im gaining... hes helping me with my diet... right now im'sticking to intermittent / cbl dieting.... just lowering my carbs lower to about 200 I think... 300 isnt working.... I was thinking about splitting the carbs up instead of just after the workout. maybe 50 simple carbs before workout and 150 after? lol im not sure... what yall think?
    I'd say 200 is a good start, ~1gr/lb of body weight. I'd split up a little more than that, just my opinion. 2 low GI meals preworkout then the 100 after, if your handle carbs well. I do not, I've got to split mine up little by little. Im more of a 35breakfast, 35 lunch, 50pre & 75post kinda guy
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    hmmm... welll the cbl diet I follow a bcaa fast kinda like the lean gains diet.... after my bcaa 12hr fast I start to bring in protein and fats until thirty minutes before working out, then ill bring in some carbs.... post workout ill get all my carbs in. then after that back too protein and fat

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    Quote Originally Posted by madds87
    hmmm... welll the cbl diet I follow a bcaa fast kinda like the lean gains diet.... after my bcaa 12hr fast I start to bring in protein and fats until thirty minutes before working out, then ill bring in some carbs.... post workout ill get all my carbs in. then after that back too protein and fat
    Not familiar with it, im old school man, lol. For better or worse, I'm not to up to date with the "newer" diets but if you got a handle on it, and is working? MORE POWER TO YOU! Good to hear you have things sorta figured out haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Noobs lower their carbs. I suggest u go to Parillo.com and read up on his free articles on how to. So much bad info floating around on this board about cutting.

    You want to keep carbs high but super clean which means all complex carbs and fibrous carbs too. Protein levels should remain typical at 1-1.5g per lb of mass. Each meal u want to eat fiber and protein with each carb. Keep fats as low as possible - This is the key to getting lean as well as timing of exercise.

    Purchase MCT oil to give u the extra calories u need to function and maintain ALL of your hard earned muscle.

    Remember carbs and protein are muscle sparing - ESPECIALLY carbs. Keep em high and fat low. Cardio at 45min daily.

    One month out you need to remove nearly all starchy carbs from ur diet and go almost exclusively to fibrous carbs. When u get to this point you'll need the MCT oil to keep ur muscle from eating itself since u wont have enough carbs to give u instant energy. The point of reducing the carbs SOME is to reduce glucose levels for more hours throughout the day.

    Ur body will draw from its fat reserves when ur glucose is low or empty. You have two places for glucose, the muscle and the liver. Once they run out u start feeding off fats for low intensity exercise and amin acids for high intensity stuff which is why most guys look pathetic when they cut!

    So u need to time ur cardio for depleted glycogen moments like first thing AM or post-workout.

    For carb-loading pre-comp. 5 days out u can load back up on long-chain sugars like oatmeal, sweet potatoes, etc to fill the glycogen stores up again.

    For water-flushing just drink lots of water right up to the evening before comp and cut water intake by 1/2 the normal amount that u normally drink. Your body will keep processing water like normal for a few hours after and use up ur water storage overnight. Drink water normally day of the show.
    I only read a little bit here mostly the first couple paragraphs. But to say that you need to keep carbs high isnt true.
    Not everyone responds to high carbs well. Also to say to keep fat low is the best way is not true either. Keeping fats to low for to long will have a negative impact on hormone levels.
    He ultimately should know what works well for him and as he dives farther and farther into prep he will need to cut carbs unless he is a genetic freak or has a high metabolism.

    Also starting cardio at 45 minutes from the get go is a bad idea. Start at the lowest possible effective amount of time 20-25 minutes. Then adjust from there.
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    Good info ^^^^











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    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT

    I only read a little bit here mostly the first couple paragraphs. But to say that you need to keep carbs high isnt true.
    Not everyone responds to high carbs well. Also to say to keep fat low is the best way is not true either. Keeping fats to low for to long will have a negative impact on hormone levels.
    He ultimately should know what works well for him and as he dives farther and farther into prep he will need to cut carbs unless he is a genetic freak or has a high metabolism.

    Also starting cardio at 45 minutes from the get go is a bad idea. Start at the lowest possible effective amount of time 20-25 minutes. Then adjust from there.
    why keep cardio low?

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    Main reason i am doing cardio is to get my posing routine strict.... I wanna move from hard flex to pose to pose to pose, flexed whole time.... Which might be exhausting and prob impossible, might make it sloppy.... but im still wokring on my routine....

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    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    why keep cardio low?
    Because like anything your body can somewhat adapt. Keep it low at first and manipulate your diet to cut BF. That way as you get closer to your show you can increase your cardio if you're weight loss slows.










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    ok that makes sense! thanx!

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    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    why keep cardio low?
    You start out with it low at the beginning of the diet. Why use all of your tricks in the bag right up front? What if you need to do 1.5 hrs of cardio at the end? If you started at 45 minutes then at the end you would be doing like 3 hrs of cardio.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdg76 View Post
    Because like anything your body can somewhat adapt. Keep it low at first and manipulate your diet to cut BF. That way as you get closer to your show you can increase your cardio if you're weight loss slows.










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    Great way to explain it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    yeah he works out at my gym... I take off my shirt and he judges from looks and tell me where im lagging and where im gaining... hes helping me with my diet... right now im'sticking to intermittent / cbl dieting.... just lowering my carbs lower to about 200 I think... 300 isnt working.... I was thinking about splitting the carbs up instead of just after the workout. maybe 50 simple carbs before workout and 150 after? lol im not sure... what yall think?
    For cutting, a 1:1.5 ratio of carbsrotein is good. So for example, 200g carbs to 300g protein per day. The rest fats (but watch out). The reason for the ratio is because you have to pay attention to your insulin to glucagon ratio which dictates how effective you will lose fat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion

    For cutting, a 1:1.5 ratio of carbsrotein is good. So for example, 200g carbs to 300g protein per day. The rest fats (but watch out). The reason for the ratio is because you have to pay attention to your insulin to glucagon ratio which dictates how effective you will lose fat.
    how do you pay attantion too my insulinto glucogen ratio?

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    what about prohormones? I dont think ill be able to get my hands on amy injectables this late... I was thinking maybe tren... or hdrol.... epi maybe.... I bought three bottles of ketogenix from athletix... heard some great things on tightening up and hardening....

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    Quote Originally Posted by madds87
    what about prohormones? I dont think ill be able to get my hands on amy injectables this late... I was thinking maybe tren... or hdrol.... epi maybe.... I bought three bottles of ketogenix from athletix... heard some great things on tightening up and hardening....
    Honestly, I'd do your first show natural. See how your body adapts and responds. It's a marathon, not a sprint brother. Natural products like GH or test boosters would be a good idea, but I'd stear clear of the PH/PS/AAS route. That's what I'm doing before I even think about a ph in contest prep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water

    Honestly, I'd do your first show natural. See how your body adapts and responds. It's a marathon, not a sprint brother. Natural products like GH or test boosters would be a good idea, but I'd stear clear of the PH/PS/AAS route. That's what I'm doing before I even think about a ph in contest prep.
    true man.... sounds good.... teat booster ill be getting then...

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    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    true man.... sounds good.... teat booster ill be getting then...

    Yes, going by your stats, you're not doing bad at all natural. Get your first show under your belt and if you eat a lot, BUT Clean after your show you could have a good rebound and put on some good size.






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    ok. I have had some orohormone cycles... but thats it... im not all natural.... but I get what your saying... just let my body work on the fat... imma jump on an ai. licogenix. and see how that works for me. I have 8 wks worth to see how well it hardens me up..... bulk one carboxy and cissus with a multi. drink 60 g of bcaas all day in a gallon.... protein with three scoops of.metamucil. strying to keep fiber high since protein is high... along with a probiotic.... any recommendations on supplements?

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    Glutamine & beverly international mass amino & ultra 40's. Maybe a cortisol product. That's all you really need to start. Maybe at the 8 week throw a fat burner in there to kick it up a notch and to energy. A lot of ppl over complicate fat loss, IMO.
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    well I do the high fiber I my diet for the acidity of all the protein without carbs... and it helps so much...

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    Quote Originally Posted by madds87
    well I do the high fiber I my diet for the acidity of all the protein without carbs... and it helps so much...
    Hmm, I'll look into it myself. Only time I've ever done the extra fiber stuff is when I'm on a keto. Interesting stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    how do you pay attantion too my insulinto glucogen ratio?
    Insulin is to carbs as glucagon is to protein. There is a direct relationship b/w amounts of these two hormones and how much protein vs. carbs that you eat. So, if you want your insulin to glucagon ratio to be right, adjust your intake of carbs to protein to match that desired ratio (using grams to measure your exact amounts) Therefore, for a 1 to 1.5 ratio of insulin to glucagon (which is ideal for cutting), for every 1g of carbs you eat, have 1.5g of protein as well. Still, I would eat tons of each. If your maintenance level is 2700 calories, I'd eat 2700 calories. Again, keep the ratio right, with slow-releasing carbs as the majority of carb energy, and keep fats as low as possible. You'll keep your muscle and lose the fat assuming that you are performing low intensity cardio as mentioned earlier.

    Another thing to remember is that this method suggests that the amount of calories plays a lesser role than the ratio of macro's in the calories.

    Furthermore, I like to remind people that the more carbs you eat, the more carbs you burn. your body really does not prefer to store glucose into fat cells. It would rather have a steady supply of energy to metabolize and use protein to repair, maintain and build muscle cells.

    For those who think it is crazy to not cut carbs:

    Think of it like this - if muscle cells are the only cells that burn calories (I assume we all agree that fat cells don't require energy to sustain themselves), why would you cut carbs to lose fat? Cutting your carbs is draining a valuable resource for your muscles, not your fat. Fat gets burned off the body because the sex hormones, T3/T4 and epinephrine mobilize fats cells to be used for energy in the event that glucose isn't available or you are performing a low-intensity activity. So therefore, we need to do fat burning exercises (low-intensity, aerobic exercise) when our glucose levels are low. Those times for most people are either first thing in the morning before eating or right after a hard anaerobic training session.

    I could go on for miles about the anatomy of the human metabolism but this is a stopping point for now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Insulin is to carbs as glucagon is to protein. There is a direct relationship b/w amounts of these two hormones and how much protein vs. carbs that you eat. So, if you want your insulin to glucagon ratio to be right, adjust your intake of carbs to protein to match that desired ratio (using grams to measure your exact amounts) Therefore, for a 1 to 1.5 ratio of insulin to glucagon (which is ideal for cutting), for every 1g of carbs you eat, have 1.5g of protein as well. Still, I would eat tons of each. If your maintenance level is 2700 calories, I'd eat 2700 calories. Again, keep the ratio right, with slow-releasing carbs as the majority of carb energy, and keep fats as low as possible. You'll keep your muscle and lose the fat assuming that you are performing low intensity cardio as mentioned earlier.

    Another thing to remember is that this method suggests that the amount of calories plays a lesser role than the ratio of macro's in the calories.

    Furthermore, I like to remind people that the more carbs you eat, the more carbs you burn. your body really does not prefer to store glucose into fat cells. It would rather have a steady supply of energy to metabolize and use protein to repair, maintain and build muscle cells.

    For those who think it is crazy to not cut carbs:

    Think of it like this - if muscle cells are the only cells that burn calories (I assume we all agree that fat cells don't require energy to sustain themselves), why would you cut carbs to lose fat? Cutting your carbs is draining a valuable resource for your muscles, not your fat. Fat gets burned off the body because the sex hormones, T3/T4 and epinephrine mobilize fats cells to be used for energy in the event that glucose isn't available or you are performing a low-intensity activity. So therefore, we need to do fat burning exercises (low-intensity, aerobic exercise) when our glucose levels are low. Those times for most people are either first thing in the morning before eating or right after a hard anaerobic training session.

    I could go on for miles about the anatomy of the human metabolism but this is a stopping point for now.
    I do not agree with your thinking but thats ok. Everything works differently for everyone.

    Point blank the more carbs i eat the fatter ill get. My body does not work that way. Also cutting carbs will allow for lower and more stable insulin levels.
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    Doing my log fellas. Join if yah want
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Insulin is to carbs as glucagon is to protein. There is a direct relationship b/w amounts of these two hormones and how much protein vs. carbs that you eat. So, if you want your insulin to glucagon ratio to be right, adjust your intake of carbs to protein to match that desired ratio (using grams to measure your exact amounts) Therefore, for a 1 to 1.5 ratio of insulin to glucagon (which is ideal for cutting), for every 1g of carbs you eat, have 1.5g of protein as well. Still, I would eat tons of each. If your maintenance level is 2700 calories, I'd eat 2700 calories. Again, keep the ratio right, with slow-releasing carbs as the majority of carb energy, and keep fats as low as possible. You'll keep your muscle and lose the fat assuming that you are performing low intensity cardio as mentioned earlier.

    Another thing to remember is that this method suggests that the amount of calories plays a lesser role than the ratio of macro's in the calories.

    Furthermore, I like to remind people that the more carbs you eat, the more carbs you burn. your body really does not prefer to store glucose into fat cells. It would rather have a steady supply of energy to metabolize and use protein to repair, maintain and build muscle cells.

    For those who think it is crazy to not cut carbs:

    Think of it like this - if muscle cells are the only cells that burn calories (I assume we all agree that fat cells don't require energy to sustain themselves), why would you cut carbs to lose fat? Cutting your carbs is draining a valuable resource for your muscles, not your fat. Fat gets burned off the body because the sex hormones, T3/T4 and epinephrine mobilize fats cells to be used for energy in the event that glucose isn't available or you are performing a low-intensity activity. So therefore, we need to do fat burning exercises (low-intensity, aerobic exercise) when our glucose levels are low. Those times for most people are either first thing in the morning before eating or right after a hard anaerobic training session.

    I could go on for miles about the anatomy of the human metabolism but this is a stopping point for now.
    My undestanding is glucagon is released when the blood glucose levels are low, i.e. fasting. So it acts antagonisticly with insulin. Can you explain how it goes hand in hand with protein? Protein, particularly whey has been shown to create an insulin response which would keep the pancreas from secreting glucagon. Also I do agree with the last poster. In order for me to lose weight I slowly drop my carbs. My body refuses to drop BF if I don't.



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    You will drop weight if u cut carbs. That is true. Unless u have ample amount of calories for ur muscle, part of that weight loss is lean muscle mass. And as u lose muscle mass, ur metabolism also decreases since ur energy expenditures decrease.

    If u convert ur carbs to "clean" carbs, including fiber and protein in the presence of every meal will mitigate almost all fat accumulations.

    Protein doesn't cause insulin release. Sugar does, Which is present in every whey product.

    Regardless of cutting or bulking, the body needs a certain amount of calories to maintain its current lean body mass. When ur macro layout has a higher amount of protein and lower amount of carbs (while not cutting calories), ur body tends to have a higher amount of glucagon in the blood stream thus leading toward a more favorable environment for cutting. The solution isnt to cut calories, but rather to avoid fat accumulation while ramping up fat burning activities.

    Carbs only store up as fat cells when u eat too many carbs at once, causing a large insulin spike. Such a spike occurs when u eat refined carbs and simple carbs. If carbs are causing fat accumulation then its because ur diet isnt top notch and could use improvements.

    This is why I say avoid a high fat diet and avoid refined and simple carbs that tend to be stored up as fat. Also, fructose, which is in virtually all fruits, almost exclusively stores up as fats.

    This isnt theory. This is science. Everyone's body has the same processes. Some have a more sensitive hormone system than others - thisbis true. But what takes place in my body is for the most part the same as it is with urs.

    Here is a link for starters - http://www.parrillo.com/sng.asp

    download the link and enjoy.

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    Losing a small amount of muscle while cutting is inevitable. Wether you cut carbs or not.
    Where do you get there is sugar in whey? Studies have been shown that whey DOES in fact cause an insulin response. Again I do not agree that you can lose only BF and keep your carbs high. You said that the more carbs you eat the more carbs it burns an to keep fats as low as possible. That is just opposite of what I have done and seen many do. If I were to up my carbs, strictly eating sweet potatos, brown rice, and oats and were to lower my fats. What would happen is my test levels would lower i.e. low fat intake, and I would start putting on BF from too many carbs. Good fats do not make you fat, simple carbs and/or to many 'good' do.
    Proverbs 3:5-6 ESV
    Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.

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