precontest prep... first comp...

Page 2 of 3 First 123 Last

  1. ok. I have had some orohormone cycles... but thats it... im not all natural.... but I get what your saying... just let my body work on the fat... imma jump on an ai. licogenix. and see how that works for me. I have 8 wks worth to see how well it hardens me up..... bulk one carboxy and cissus with a multi. drink 60 g of bcaas all day in a gallon.... protein with three scoops of.metamucil. strying to keep fiber high since protein is high... along with a probiotic.... any recommendations on supplements?


  2. Glutamine & beverly international mass amino & ultra 40's. Maybe a cortisol product. That's all you really need to start. Maybe at the 8 week throw a fat burner in there to kick it up a notch and to energy. A lot of ppl over complicate fat loss, IMO.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    •   
       


  3. well I do the high fiber I my diet for the acidity of all the protein without carbs... and it helps so much...

  4. Quote Originally Posted by madds87
    well I do the high fiber I my diet for the acidity of all the protein without carbs... and it helps so much...
    Hmm, I'll look into it myself. Only time I've ever done the extra fiber stuff is when I'm on a keto. Interesting stuff
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  5. Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    how do you pay attantion too my insulinto glucogen ratio?
    Insulin is to carbs as glucagon is to protein. There is a direct relationship b/w amounts of these two hormones and how much protein vs. carbs that you eat. So, if you want your insulin to glucagon ratio to be right, adjust your intake of carbs to protein to match that desired ratio (using grams to measure your exact amounts) Therefore, for a 1 to 1.5 ratio of insulin to glucagon (which is ideal for cutting), for every 1g of carbs you eat, have 1.5g of protein as well. Still, I would eat tons of each. If your maintenance level is 2700 calories, I'd eat 2700 calories. Again, keep the ratio right, with slow-releasing carbs as the majority of carb energy, and keep fats as low as possible. You'll keep your muscle and lose the fat assuming that you are performing low intensity cardio as mentioned earlier.

    Another thing to remember is that this method suggests that the amount of calories plays a lesser role than the ratio of macro's in the calories.

    Furthermore, I like to remind people that the more carbs you eat, the more carbs you burn. your body really does not prefer to store glucose into fat cells. It would rather have a steady supply of energy to metabolize and use protein to repair, maintain and build muscle cells.

    For those who think it is crazy to not cut carbs:

    Think of it like this - if muscle cells are the only cells that burn calories (I assume we all agree that fat cells don't require energy to sustain themselves), why would you cut carbs to lose fat? Cutting your carbs is draining a valuable resource for your muscles, not your fat. Fat gets burned off the body because the sex hormones, T3/T4 and epinephrine mobilize fats cells to be used for energy in the event that glucose isn't available or you are performing a low-intensity activity. So therefore, we need to do fat burning exercises (low-intensity, aerobic exercise) when our glucose levels are low. Those times for most people are either first thing in the morning before eating or right after a hard anaerobic training session.

    I could go on for miles about the anatomy of the human metabolism but this is a stopping point for now.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Insulin is to carbs as glucagon is to protein. There is a direct relationship b/w amounts of these two hormones and how much protein vs. carbs that you eat. So, if you want your insulin to glucagon ratio to be right, adjust your intake of carbs to protein to match that desired ratio (using grams to measure your exact amounts) Therefore, for a 1 to 1.5 ratio of insulin to glucagon (which is ideal for cutting), for every 1g of carbs you eat, have 1.5g of protein as well. Still, I would eat tons of each. If your maintenance level is 2700 calories, I'd eat 2700 calories. Again, keep the ratio right, with slow-releasing carbs as the majority of carb energy, and keep fats as low as possible. You'll keep your muscle and lose the fat assuming that you are performing low intensity cardio as mentioned earlier.

    Another thing to remember is that this method suggests that the amount of calories plays a lesser role than the ratio of macro's in the calories.

    Furthermore, I like to remind people that the more carbs you eat, the more carbs you burn. your body really does not prefer to store glucose into fat cells. It would rather have a steady supply of energy to metabolize and use protein to repair, maintain and build muscle cells.

    For those who think it is crazy to not cut carbs:

    Think of it like this - if muscle cells are the only cells that burn calories (I assume we all agree that fat cells don't require energy to sustain themselves), why would you cut carbs to lose fat? Cutting your carbs is draining a valuable resource for your muscles, not your fat. Fat gets burned off the body because the sex hormones, T3/T4 and epinephrine mobilize fats cells to be used for energy in the event that glucose isn't available or you are performing a low-intensity activity. So therefore, we need to do fat burning exercises (low-intensity, aerobic exercise) when our glucose levels are low. Those times for most people are either first thing in the morning before eating or right after a hard anaerobic training session.

    I could go on for miles about the anatomy of the human metabolism but this is a stopping point for now.
    I do not agree with your thinking but thats ok. Everything works differently for everyone.

    Point blank the more carbs i eat the fatter ill get. My body does not work that way. Also cutting carbs will allow for lower and more stable insulin levels.
    E-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns

  7. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Insulin is to carbs as glucagon is to protein. There is a direct relationship b/w amounts of these two hormones and how much protein vs. carbs that you eat. So, if you want your insulin to glucagon ratio to be right, adjust your intake of carbs to protein to match that desired ratio (using grams to measure your exact amounts) Therefore, for a 1 to 1.5 ratio of insulin to glucagon (which is ideal for cutting), for every 1g of carbs you eat, have 1.5g of protein as well. Still, I would eat tons of each. If your maintenance level is 2700 calories, I'd eat 2700 calories. Again, keep the ratio right, with slow-releasing carbs as the majority of carb energy, and keep fats as low as possible. You'll keep your muscle and lose the fat assuming that you are performing low intensity cardio as mentioned earlier.

    Another thing to remember is that this method suggests that the amount of calories plays a lesser role than the ratio of macro's in the calories.

    Furthermore, I like to remind people that the more carbs you eat, the more carbs you burn. your body really does not prefer to store glucose into fat cells. It would rather have a steady supply of energy to metabolize and use protein to repair, maintain and build muscle cells.

    For those who think it is crazy to not cut carbs:

    Think of it like this - if muscle cells are the only cells that burn calories (I assume we all agree that fat cells don't require energy to sustain themselves), why would you cut carbs to lose fat? Cutting your carbs is draining a valuable resource for your muscles, not your fat. Fat gets burned off the body because the sex hormones, T3/T4 and epinephrine mobilize fats cells to be used for energy in the event that glucose isn't available or you are performing a low-intensity activity. So therefore, we need to do fat burning exercises (low-intensity, aerobic exercise) when our glucose levels are low. Those times for most people are either first thing in the morning before eating or right after a hard anaerobic training session.

    I could go on for miles about the anatomy of the human metabolism but this is a stopping point for now.
    My undestanding is glucagon is released when the blood glucose levels are low, i.e. fasting. So it acts antagonisticly with insulin. Can you explain how it goes hand in hand with protein? Protein, particularly whey has been shown to create an insulin response which would keep the pancreas from secreting glucagon. Also I do agree with the last poster. In order for me to lose weight I slowly drop my carbs. My body refuses to drop BF if I don't.



    jdg76
    Team APPNUT
    "I would rather follow Christ and die to find out their is no God, than to not, and die to find out there is a God."

  8. You will drop weight if u cut carbs. That is true. Unless u have ample amount of calories for ur muscle, part of that weight loss is lean muscle mass. And as u lose muscle mass, ur metabolism also decreases since ur energy expenditures decrease.

    If u convert ur carbs to "clean" carbs, including fiber and protein in the presence of every meal will mitigate almost all fat accumulations.

    Protein doesn't cause insulin release. Sugar does, Which is present in every whey product.

    Regardless of cutting or bulking, the body needs a certain amount of calories to maintain its current lean body mass. When ur macro layout has a higher amount of protein and lower amount of carbs (while not cutting calories), ur body tends to have a higher amount of glucagon in the blood stream thus leading toward a more favorable environment for cutting. The solution isnt to cut calories, but rather to avoid fat accumulation while ramping up fat burning activities.

    Carbs only store up as fat cells when u eat too many carbs at once, causing a large insulin spike. Such a spike occurs when u eat refined carbs and simple carbs. If carbs are causing fat accumulation then its because ur diet isnt top notch and could use improvements.

    This is why I say avoid a high fat diet and avoid refined and simple carbs that tend to be stored up as fat. Also, fructose, which is in virtually all fruits, almost exclusively stores up as fats.

    This isnt theory. This is science. Everyone's body has the same processes. Some have a more sensitive hormone system than others - thisbis true. But what takes place in my body is for the most part the same as it is with urs.

    Here is a link for starters - http://www.parrillo.com/sng.asp

    download the link and enjoy.

  9. Losing a small amount of muscle while cutting is inevitable. Wether you cut carbs or not.
    Where do you get there is sugar in whey? Studies have been shown that whey DOES in fact cause an insulin response. Again I do not agree that you can lose only BF and keep your carbs high. You said that the more carbs you eat the more carbs it burns an to keep fats as low as possible. That is just opposite of what I have done and seen many do. If I were to up my carbs, strictly eating sweet potatos, brown rice, and oats and were to lower my fats. What would happen is my test levels would lower i.e. low fat intake, and I would start putting on BF from too many carbs. Good fats do not make you fat, simple carbs and/or to many 'good' do.
    "I would rather follow Christ and die to find out their is no God, than to not, and die to find out there is a God."
    •   
       


  10. Quote Originally Posted by jdg76 View Post
    Losing a small amount of muscle while cutting is inevitable. Wether you cut carbs or not.
    Where do you get there is sugar in whey? Studies have been shown that whey DOES in fact cause an insulin response. Again I do not agree that you can lose only BF and keep your carbs high. You said that the more carbs you eat the more carbs it burns an to keep fats as low as possible. That is just opposite of what I have done and seen many do. If I were to up my carbs, strictly eating sweet potatos, brown rice, and oats and were to lower my fats. What would happen is my test levels would lower i.e. low fat intake, and I would start putting on BF from too many carbs. Good fats do not make you fat, simple carbs and/or to many 'good' do.
    And where is your info on a few things...

    1) That whey, a protein, causes insulin release? (The sugars from lactose and added sweeteners in the whey mix will cause the insulin response, not protein. Where are the studies?

    2) That low fats cause low test levels...? And if there is a connection here, is it a low enough drop to merit NOT eating a low-fat diet? And also, for those on PH's and steroids, this point is very, very moot.

    3) That (within reason) a healthy amount of slow releasing carbs will cause fat gain, rather than speeding up the metabolism? Reference please.

    I'm tired of bro science/pseudo science. It doesn't work. Cutting calories below maintenance levels cause muscle loss in equal amounts to fat loss, which in turn slows down the metabolism. So as you lose mass, to keep seeing weight loss you must continue to cut more and more calories. And as you cut calories, the more muscle you lose..and so it goes. Skinny and weak.

    Now we could look at how Jay Cutler, Ronnie Coleman and others do it. Which is eat more carbs (and I mean Clean carbs), high proteins, extremely high fiber content and low fats). They start packing on muscle, which in turn demands more calories. And as they eat more calories they continue to pack on muscle which continues to ramp up the metabolism. It's the exact opposite of the approach that people on these boards do. Such approach is why most aren't going to be pro bodybuilders at any level - not because of steroids and GH use. They already use those on these boards.

    Here is some reference on my behalf:

    Name:  PDF Complete Special Edition_2012-07-27_18-05-01.png
Views: 124
Size:  139.8 KB

  11. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion

    Now we could look at how Jay Cutler, Ronnie Coleman and others do it. Which is eat more carbs (and I mean Clean carbs), high proteins, extremely high fiber content and low fats). They start packing on muscle, which in turn demands more calories. And as they eat more calories they continue to pack on muscle which continues to ramp up the metabolism. It's the exact opposite of the approach that people on these boards do. Such approach is why most aren't going to be pro bodybuilders at any level - not because of steroids and GH use. They already use those on these boards.
    Using IFBB pros as examples (and great ones at that) is a terrible example in my opinion. Not saying you're wrong, just saying bad examples....

    I am really enjoying this debate however.......
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  12. me too... but im not willing to try and increase my carb intake right now lol

  13. It's a long read but you'll get the point.

    1.By Jerry Brainum

    Milk protein consists of two primary proteins: casein and whey, with casein accounting for 80 percent and whey 20 percent. In recent years studies have shown that both proteins have varying uptake rates in the body. Whey digests rapidly, reaches peak blood uptake in about 90 minutes,and then rapidly declines. In contrast, casein curdles In the stomach,leading to an extended release of amino acids lasting for up to seven hours.

    Based on those findings, scientists have suggested that whey protein is superior to casein for purposes of stimulating muscle protein synthesis. The reason is that the high essential amino-acid content of whey, including branched-chain amino acids, spurs muscle protein synthesis with one particular BCAA, leucine, perhaps the most important player of all in relation to muscle protein synthesis. Scientists also suggest that casein, because of its relatively slow release of essential amino acids, is better than whey for generating an extended anticatabolic effect. Since muscle growth is based on a balance between increased protein synthesis and rejoiced catabolism, it would appear that whey and casein provide the perfect synergistic combination for helping build muscle when combined with weight training.

    One problem with studies that originally revealed the properties of casein and whey was that they measured whole-body protein synthesis, which differs from muscle protein synthesis specifically. Would the findings about casein and whey be confirmed if the focus was only on muscle protein synthesis? That was the major focus of a new study.1 Seventeen healthy young men, average age 28, were randomly chosen to participate in either of two protein trials or in a control group that didn't take any supplemental protein. Immediately after a weight workout, the men in the protein groups drank a whey or casein drink at a dose of gram per kilogram of body mass. The controls got a calorie-free drink. To measure amino behavior and rate of muscle protein synthesis, researchers tagged leucine and the proteins with radioactive tracers.

    The primary finding was that both whey and casein stimulated about the same level of muscle protein synthesis over a one-to six-hour period. Whey, however, did it more rapidly, a result that confirmed previous studies. Casein showed a more moderate but prolonged increase in muscle protein synthesis. Measures of downstream muscle-protein-synthesis signals revealed similar responses to the two proteins, except for one factor that responded more strongly to whey.

    The type of experimental casein used made a difference. This study used calcium caseinate; another form, micellar casein, produces a more prolonged release of amino acids. One reason is that the micellar form retains certain peptides, which are short chains of amino acids, that help partition the release of amino acids over an extended
    time.

    'Taken together," the authors note, "it could be argued that the combination of whey and casein would be an optimal choice post exercise, as whey stimulates the protein synthesis machinery with its high digestibility and consequently high peak concentrations of insulin and amino acids, including a high proportion of leucine in its composition. Casein provides amino acids for a prolonged time, fulfilling the amino acid need for the increased protein synthesis machinery." They also confirm that whereas whey is the protein of choice immediately after a workout, the ideal supplement would contain a 50/50 blend of casein and whey.

    While leucine is considered a key amino acid in muscle protein synthesis, the authors note that adding leucine to a postworkout protein-and-carb combo doesn't extend the effects in subjects of any age. It does, however, appear to uptick whole-body protein synthesis, which, as noted above, doesn't directly translate to increased muscle protein synthesis. Additional leucine does increase muscle protein synthesis in older people-but only under resting, not post exercise conditions.

    All this suggests that you don't need supplemental leucine and probably not branched-chain amino acids if you use a supplement that contains both whey and casein, preferably micellar casein. Any excess leucine will simply be oxidized in the liver and not used to synthesize muscle protein. One interesting effect observed in the new study was that the cheaper form of casein, calcium caseinate, brings on an insulin release, while micellar casein does not. That's moot if you use a whey-and-casein combo because whey produces a pronounced insulin release. In the presence of a high blood count of amino acids, insulin leads to muscle protein synthesis, but otherwise it's more involved in keeping muscle from breaking down. The study reported here measured muscle protein synthesis only, not anticatabolic activity, but found that after about six hours muscle protein synthesis was similar for both whey and casein, with whey being better than casein in that respect.

    Speaking of leucine, a few more newly published studies have found some interesting effects related to it and other amino acids. One study compared plasma leucine in men and women following sprinting.2 In some respects sprinting is similar to high intensity weight training because both involve high-intensity activity followed by brief rests. Men produce more ammonia than women after either type of exercise. One reason is that ammonia is produced as waste product of the metabolism of adenosine triphosphate, the immediate energy source for muscle contraction, and men have more muscle and ATP than women. They also have more type 2 muscle fibers, making for larger muscles, and ammonia is produced mainly in type 2 muscle fibers.

    Women produce less ammonia than men during exercise for another reason. It turns out that after high-intensity exercise, excess ammonia is taken up in fat tissue, where it is buffered and converted into glutamine. Since women usually have more fat tissue than men, more ammonia buffering goes on in their bodies after exercise. Meanwhile, men experience twice the decrease of plasma leucine than women after exercise.

    The significance is that the drop in blood or plasma leucine directly correlates to blood ammonia, and because women produce less ammonia, their plasma leucine drops less after exercise. Estrogen comes into the picture as well; when men are given estrogen, they show decreased leucine oxidation after exercise. The higher leucine counts in women after sprinting has implications for muscle growth, since only women show increased mass after sprinting exercise alone. That's based on the higher leucine retention in women than men after that activity.

    References


    1 Reitelseder, S" et ai, (2011), Whey and casein labeled with L[1-13CJ leucine and muscle protein synthesis: Effect of resistance exercise and protein ingestion, Am J Physiol Endoerinol Metabol, 300(1 ):E231-42,
    2 Esbjornsson, M" et al. (2010), Reduction in plasma leucine after sprint exercise is greater in males than In females, Seand J Med Sei Sports, In press,
    "I would rather follow Christ and die to find out their is no God, than to not, and die to find out there is a God."

  14. Low fat and test levels

    Section: malegrams Registered Trademarkhealthwatch
    Unfortunately, shedding fat may also mean a drop in your manliest hormone
    Lowering your fat intake is generally a good thing. It helps you lose the love handles, corral the cholesterol levels and win knowing glances from those women in Bally's commercials. But if you want to build more strength and muscle mass, you may want to keep just a little lard in your diet. Researchers have found that extremely low-fat diets can reduce muscle-friendly testosterone--almost to preadolescent levels! Penn State researchers monitored the diets and hormone levels of a group of resistance trainers for 17 days. "The subjects with the lowest fat intake had the lowest testosterone levels," says researcher Jeff Volek, M.S., R.D.
    How low is low? "You start seeing real changes when the fat intake drops to about 10 percent," he says. It's worse if you're overtraining, because you're already sapping your testosterone levels. Adopt a draconian no-fat diet and you compound the problem. This can ultimately hamper your immune system, endurance capacity and ability to build muscle. Eat healthfully, but try to keep your fat levels between 20 and 30 percent of your diet, says Volek.
    ~~~~~~~~
    EDITED BY RON GERACI AND DUANE SWIERCZYNSKI
    "I would rather follow Christ and die to find out their is no God, than to not, and die to find out there is a God."

  15. I'll pull up a few more later. And as stated above neither YOU or I am even close to being in shape as Cutler, Coleman or any one else in that stage of bodybuilding. You can not use them as examples.
    "I would rather follow Christ and die to find out their is no God, than to not, and die to find out there is a God."

  16. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Jun;90(6):3550-9. Epub 2005 Mar 1.
    Low-fat high-fiber diet decreased serum and urine androgens in men.

    Wang C, Catlin DH, Starcevic B, Heber D, Ambler C, Berman N, Lucas G, Leung A, Schramm K, Lee PW, Hull L, Swerdloff RS.
    Source

    Department of Medicine and Pediatrics and the General Clinical Research Center, Harbor-University of California at Los Angeles Medical Center and Los Angeles Biomedical Research Institute, Torrance, California 90509, USA. [email protected]

    Abstract

    To validate our hypothesis that reduction in dietary fat may result in changes in androgen metabolism, 39 middle-aged, white, healthy men (50-60 yr of age) were studied while they were consuming their usual high-fat, low-fiber diet and after 8 wk modulation to an isocaloric low-fat, high-fiber diet. Mean body weight decreased by 1 kg, whereas total caloric intake, energy expenditure, and activity index were not changed. After diet modulation, mean serum testosterone (T) concentration fell (P < 0.0001), accompanied by small but significant decreases in serum free T (P = 0.0045), 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (P = 0.0053), and adrenal androgens (androstendione, P = 0.0135; dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, P = 0.0011). Serum estradiol and SHBG showed smaller decreases. Parallel decreases in urinary excretion of some testicular and adrenal androgens were demonstrated. Metabolic clearance rates of T were not changed, and production rates for T showed a downward trend while on low-fat diet modulation. We conclude that reduction in dietary fat intake (and increase in fiber) results in 12% consistent lowering of circulating androgen levels without changing the clearance.
    "I would rather follow Christ and die to find out their is no God, than to not, and die to find out there is a God."

  17. I dont even know where to start in this thread
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  18. Regarding protein debate:

    I agree that whey protein causes muscle protein synthesis, but that isn't what insulin is or does. As it says in the simple explanation on wikipedia -

    Insulin
    is a hormone, produced by the pancreas, which is central to regulating carbohydrate and fat metabolism in the body. Insulin causes cells in the liver, muscle, and fat tissue to take up glucose from the blood, storing it as glycogen inside these tissues.

    Insulin stops the use of fat as an energy source by inhibiting the release of glucagon. With the exception of the metabolic disorder diabetes mellitus and metabolic syndrome, insulin is provided within the body in a constant proportion to remove excess glucose from the blood, which otherwise would be toxic. When blood glucose levels fall below a certain level, the body begins to use stored sugar as an energy source through glycogenolysis, which breaks down the glycogen stored in the liver and muscles into glucose, which can then be utilized as an energy source. (aka amino acids stored in the muscle cells) As a central metabolic control mechanism, its status is also used as a control signal to other body systems (such as amino acid uptake by body cells). In addition, it has several other anabolic effects throughout the body.

    There is not evidence that protein, all by itself, causes insulin release. It just doesn't. Glucose does.

  19. I'm on my phone so this will be short. But you seriuosly are going to use a wikepedia reference?
    "I would rather follow Christ and die to find out their is no God, than to not, and die to find out there is a God."

  20. Regarding the fat studies, I haven't decided if I want to consider the info or not. Pseudo science reigns in colleges these days because it would simply cost too much time and money to actually find the exact relationship between fats and testosterone.

    Since one of testosterone's main duties is to mobilize fat cells to be used for energy, I can believe that one's free test levels would decrease in a low-fat diet since the need for such is reduced. Granted, this might also be why pro bodybuilder's decided to make steroids a key ingredient to their diets, allowing them to stay away from fats yet still have their T-levels high. This would allow them to become very lean without losing strength, stamina and lean mass.

    But anyways, the point to my argument was not to just "lower fat intake", quite honestly 20% of daily intake would be fine, which is what everyone seems to shoot for anyways (40/40/20). But the point was to lower fat intake and simultaneously increase starchy and fibrous carb intake to make up for the loss in calories. Do cardio ED or EOD and continue to include high protein, high starchy carb and fibrous carb intake in every meal. Lastly, consuming MCT's as a replacement dietary fat for increased energy. It's not a crazy concept. It's a concept that allows you to maintain all of your muscle and lose the fat. That's all I'm trying to suggest. You don't have to lose muscle in the process, all-natural or not!

  21. Quote Originally Posted by jdg76 View Post
    I'm on my phone so this will be short. But you seriuosly are going to use a wikepedia reference?
    ok, so you don't believe what it says? Let me go find another reference. It's all the same. Just because professor's dont like it doesn't mean that its not good. They reference their finding on wiki.

    Insulin is a hormone that has profound effects on metabolism. Insulin causes cells in the liver, muscle, and fat tissue to take up glucose from the blood, storing it as glycogen in the liver and muscle, and stopping use of fat as an energy source. When insulin is absent (or low), glucose is not taken up by body cells, and the body begins to use fat as an energy source, for example, by transfer of lipids from adipose tissue to the liver for mobilization as an energy source. As its level is a central metabolic control mechanism, its status is also used as a control signal to other body systems (such as amino acid uptake by body cells). In addition, it has several other anabolic effects throughout the body.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by jdg76 View Post
    I'm on my phone so this will be short. But you seriuosly are going to use a wikepedia reference?
    Regardless of my source, I feel it shouldn't even be necessary to explain the point. Insulin is to carbs, not protein. This is commonly known to any half-educated individual in medical science.

  23. Completely agree with trying to keep as much lean muscle as possible whole dieting. But to say you are tired of bro science and then try to tell me a low fat diet will not effect test levels is bro science in itself. And besides what looks like a magazine article I haven't seen any studies showing if you increase your Carb intake you can lower bf?
    "I would rather follow Christ and die to find out their is no God, than to not, and die to find out there is a God."

  24. Quote Originally Posted by jdg76 View Post
    I'm on my phone so this will be short. But you seriuosly are going to use a wikepedia reference?
    and more from "How it works"

    The activity of lipoprotein lipases depends upon the levels of insulin in the body. If insulin is high, then the lipases are highly active; if insulin is low, the lipases are inactive.
    The fatty acids are then absorbed from the blood into fat cells, muscle cells and liver cells. In these cells, under stimulation by insulin, fatty acids are made into fat molecules and stored as fat droplets.
    It is also possible for fat cells to take up glucose and amino acids, which have been absorbed into the bloodstream after a meal, and convert those into fat molecules. The conversion of carbohydrates or protein into fat is 10 times less efficient than simply storing fat in a fat cell, but the body can do it. If you have 100 extra calories in fat (about 11 grams) floating in your bloodstream, fat cells can store it using only 2.5 calories of energy. On the other hand, if you have 100 extra calories in glucose (about 25 grams) floating in your bloodstream, it takes 23 calories of energy to convert the glucose into fat and then store it. Given a choice, a fat cell will grab the fat and store it rather than the carbohydrates because fat is so much easier to store.

  25. Insulin is to carbs. I agree. But i is also shown they whey can spike insulin.
    "I would rather follow Christ and die to find out their is no God, than to not, and die to find out there is a God."

  26. Quote Originally Posted by jdg76 View Post
    Insulin is to carbs. I agree. But i is also shown they whey can spike insulin.
    "whey" or protein?

  27. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post

    There is not evidence that protein, all by itself, causes insulin release. It just doesn't. Glucose does.
    1. Wikipedia is not an acceptable reference

    2. PRO intake does illicit an insulin response.
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  28. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    "whey" or protein?
    another good thing to look at:

    http://health.howstuffworks.com/well...s/weight-loss/do-high-fat-low-carb-diets-work.htm

    And to sum it up: It's the "whey" part of whey protein that causes insulin release, which isn't really a spike either, just a release. It's the insulinotropic properties that cause such and this is exclusive to milk proteins. To argue with me about a very particular protein causing insulin release does not in any way defeat my purpose of having whole food proteins coming in at a 1.5:1 ratio of protein to carbs, measure in grams. Best results happen there.

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/80/5/1246.full


    1.5g/lb of body weight in protein and 1g/lb of body weight in carbs. Eat mostly fibrous carbs to get even more ripped. For me, it'd look like this

    225g protein
    150g carbs
    30-40g dietary fats
    35g of MCT's (which are fats BTW)

    That puts me at roughly 2100-2200 calories/day @ 150lbs of mass. I'd recommend the same proportions to anyone training for a comp since getting shredded is the key. However, I wouldn't do this ratio longer than 4-5 weeks since going that low on carbs is hard on the body especially when you are doing alot of cardio.

  29. The whole challenge to my point was how does the ratio of protein to carbs matter? How does protein play a key role in glucagon release? Read here:

    Name:  PDF Complete Special Edition_2012-07-28_12-15-49.png
Views: 88
Size:  227.1 KB
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. first power comp
    By classic27 in forum Powerlifting/Strongman
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-04-2008, 03:35 PM
  2. Practicing for my first dead lift comp
    By RedwolfWV in forum Powerlifting/Strongman
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 05-21-2008, 07:52 PM
  3. drying out for precontest prep?
    By BigAl in forum Supplements
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-13-2003, 04:26 AM
Log in
Log in