Dendramine

[UrAcGuy]

if you want to discuss ursolic anymore Ac guy start a new thread. This has gone off topic long enough. thank you

You're correct. Let's keep this thread about Dendrobium nobile.

PA, did you know this plant has been used to increase and maintain energy levels, especially post-coital energy levels in people? It also has shown some neuroprotective effects in mammals and some positive effects regarding memory.

I'd say this has at least some potential based on these findings and indications. Certainly as a pre-workout stimulant. Sex could be equated to working out!

--UrAcGuy

[ax1]

Look PA, your goal is to make people think ursolic acid is a great compound for a dietary supplement because you have a product with ursolic acid in it. I'd say you have a conflict there and a motivation to suppress any potentially negative findings concerning ursolic acid rather than elucidating any truth, PA. Not the other way around. Cherry picking? It's just as easy for someone to say that you cherry picked the two studies on mice that support your product purpose.

--UrAcGuy

At the same time, Patrick does not have to put all the time and energy into Ursolic Acid if he thought it was illegitimate. He has the ability to run with something else that is known to work and cash in on it. It's possible I may be wrong (although I dont think so,) but I believe the reasoning of his time and energy into Ursolic Acid is because he genuinely believes in it based on his research. He didn't have to continue on and produce his product.

His track record and history cannot be ignored...but if your skeptical its your right to be so, unless you have your own personal agenda..really, nobody knows who you are, do we?

[Robboe]

u might want a cholinergic preworkout. but if they wanted to put a cholinergic in there they coulda put galanthamine in or something. maybe it was put in there simply to look mysterious? Maybe Bruce Kneller suckered them into buying the stuff from his under the table chinese supply biz. Kneller used to put mysterious chinese herbs in the GN products that were probably little more than label dresswing

I'd just like to make it absolutely clear that we do not buy materials from BK nor did he have anything to do with this product in any way shape or form.

Carry on.

[oufinny]

At the same time, Patrick does not have to put all the time and energy into Ursolic Acid if he thought it was illegitimate. He has the ability to run with something else that is known to work and cash in on it. It's possible I may be wrong (although I dont think so,) but I believe the reasoning of his time and energy into Ursolic Acid is because he genuinely believes in it based on his research. He didn't have to continue on and produce his product.

His track record and history cannot be ignored...but if your skeptical its your right to be so, unless you have your own personal agenda..really, nobody knows who you are, do we?

Considering he has 7 posts, I just glance over his posts until he gets some cred around here. Sure that may be a bit condescending but I don't have time for some newbie questioning an expert.

[Patrick Arnold]

My goal is to make sure that people see as much of the data as possible. So, I don't see why you had to resort to polite insults?

And I disagree with your broad statement that "...obviously the findings on VEGF dont have much relevance to healthy organisms and muscle tissue." You do not know this. Many of the studies were conducted using ursolic acid were done on healthy cells which became quite unhealthy when exposed to ursolic acid.

Mice are not always great models for what happens in people, good or bad, but I see you use that as a marketing tool anyhow too. People should be made aware of all the data concerning it. More research is clearly needed. The two studies you cited would have been better if the scientists looked into interleukin and cytokine expression and MMP-2/MMP-8 levels. The effects on VEGF and angiogenesis should have been looked at and noted in the publication.

Curiously absent from those two studies were androgenic hormone level assays. You reference ursolic acid as an aromatase inhibitor which it is weakly in vitro. I think its about forty times less potent than formestane?

If this were true and there was an aromatase inhibiting effect then its a good thing for men and an added benefit to ursolic acid for men. Just seems very odd that none of this or the angiogenic markers were assayed.

Look PA, your goal is to make people think ursolic acid is a great compound for a dietary supplement because you have a product with ursolic acid in it. I'd say you have a conflict there and a motivation to suppress any potentially negative findings concerning ursolic acid rather than elucidating any truth, PA. Not the other way around. Cherry picking? It's just as easy for someone to say that you cherry picked the two studies on mice that support your product purpose.

DNA damage is not something that might be seen immediately either but certainly is concerning. T-cell suppression is not a good thing either.

The verdict is still out on ursolic acid. I'm sorry that this makes you upset and unhappy. But it is still factual.

--UrAcGuy

this is my board and i told you no more talk about ursolic acid in this thread. post this in a new thread if you like but i am not going to read it here. moderator, please delete this

[Patrick Arnold]

No, I choose to say that more data is needed and people should be aware of all data, good or bad. That is all I am saying.
You are the one making paranoid inferences.

please delete this one too moderator

bruce you are free to post this in another thread if you like in which ursolic acid is the subject

[Patrick Arnold]

You're correct. Let's keep this thread about Dendrobium nobile.

PA, did you know this plant has been used to increase and maintain energy levels, especially post-coital energy levels in people? It also has shown some neuroprotective effects in mammals and some positive effects regarding memory.

I'd say this has at least some potential based on these findings and indications. Certainly as a pre-workout stimulant. Sex could be equated to working out!

--UrAcGuy

i bet is suppresses "ill wind" and balances yin and yang too. but will it wash my laundry?

[Patrick Arnold]

I'd just like to make it absolutely clear that we do not buy materials from BK nor did he have anything to do with this product in any way shape or form.

Carry on.

you didnt say "not that it would be a bad thing"......

[madchemist]

based on SAR inference, the phenylethylamines do not look too promising

[UrAcGuy]

i bet is suppresses "ill wind" and balances yin and yang too. but will it wash my laundry?

And then some. There is a study in the Chengdu University of Traditional Chinese Medicine's (成都中医药大学) Journal of Pharmacognosy that goes into great detail about the prosexual effects of Dendrobine (金钗石斛含石斛碱), Dendramine (石斛胺), & Nobilonine (石斛次碱) and their purported abilities to "help you keep the yang up" if you know what I mean, PA. So maybe it won't wash your laundry but you might have to do your laundry after ingesting one of these guys.

I'll set you up for a great reply here to. The authors studied a "decoction" of Dendrobium nobile Lindl stems [来源] 为兰科植物石斛 and concluded basically that this may help guys "keep it up longer." Wouldn't you think something called a "decoction" would have the opposite type of effect?

These compounds also seem to prevent guys from falling asleep after sex and made some of the guys more talkative and animated.

I bet these compounds are naturally found in women's brains but not men's...

[UrAcGuy]

based on SAR inference, the phenylethylamines do not look too promising

I'd agree. There are potentially a few that may have some slightly better effect than B-PEA HCl. Alone there probably is not a heck of
a lot more that can be done with PEA's - realizing of course that a PEA "backbone" is found in the tryptamines, ecgonines and opiates too - I mean the more simple PEA homologs.

Then again with the right MAOi and in combination with a few other goodies? You may find pure bliss. Or not.

[Patrick Arnold]

And then some. There is a study in the Chengdu University of Traditional Chinese Medicine's (成都中医药大学) Journal of Pharmacognosy that goes into great detail about the prosexual effects of Dendrobine (金钗石斛含石斛碱), Dendramine (石斛胺), & Nobilonine (石斛次碱) and their purported abilities to "help you keep the yang up" if you know what I mean, PA. So maybe it won't wash your laundry but you might have to do your laundry after ingesting one of these guys.

I'll set you up for a great reply here to. The authors studied a "decoction" of Dendrobium nobile Lindl stems [来源] 为兰科植物石斛 and concluded basically that this may help guys "keep it up longer." Wouldn't you think something called a "decoction" would have the opposite type of effect?

These compounds also seem to prevent guys from falling asleep after sex and made some of the guys more talkative and animated.

I bet these compounds are naturally found in women's brains but not men's...

so you do know about it. why did you post

"Well at least dendramine is potentially compliant with DHSEA 1994 while geranamine clearly
ain't. No clue what dendramine does or why its in Driven's PWO but nice to see they did not
just go the geranamine route."


i dont appreciate games on my board here. if you have information then share it. dont play stupid just for an opportunity to be a smart ass and annoy me. If it were my choice right now I would ban you. Its not completely my choice though.

if you do stick around then act normal please. dont play any more games

[Patrick Arnold]

I'd agree. There are potentially a few that may have some slightly better effect than B-PEA HCl. Alone there probably is not a heck of
a lot more that can be done with PEA's - realizing of course that a PEA "backbone" is found in the tryptamines, ecgonines and opiates too - I mean the more simple PEA homologs.

Then again with the right MAOi and in combination with a few other goodies? You may find pure bliss. Or not.

u really need that alpha methyl group

[madchemist]

http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summ...049&loc=ec_rcs

[Patrick Arnold]

http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summ...049&loc=ec_rcs

dude thats an amphetamine prodrug. no? amide hydrolysis yields benzoic acid and amphetamine.

try selling the idea to AX. they love that stuff

[mr.cooper69]

dude thats an amphetamine prodrug. no? amide hydrolysis yields benzoic acid and amphetamine.

try selling the idea to AX. they love that stuff

lmfao

[budiz]

http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summ...049&loc=ec_rcs

I'm new here and this is basically the first thread I have ever read, but after seeing that molecule it looks like I have picked an interesting place to start.

regards

[madchemist]

u wanted an alpha methyl

[budiz]

Kinda looks like vyvanse

[madchemist]

Pro-1,3-DMAA