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Augmatine

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  1. Jahcuree
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    congrats on the fat losss T-Bone!

    The change in glucos levels could be as easily attributed to your fat loss and new/current insulin sensitivity levels (altered for the positive).
    You slayin' the hype again bro??? just kidding

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    haha lol

    T-Bone is a hype-slayer too
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    you think agmatine is responsible for that?
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    Can someone sum up what I missed since I last posted in this thread...this thing is probably the most posted-in misspelled thread in history? It's hard to look at it with the darned "u."

    In any event, just give me the top 5 questions I have left unanswered...I simply don't have time to peruse it all with any degree of significance at this time, so this might help bring it back for me...

    Thanks in advance,
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    Can someone sum up what I missed since I last posted in this thread...this thing is probably the most posted-in misspelled thread in history? It's hard to look at it with the darned "u."

    In any event, just give me the top 5 questions I have left unanswered...I simply don't have time to peruse it all with any degree of significance at this time, so this might help bring it back for me...

    Thanks in advance,
    D_
    Hey Doc,
    the main concern here were some studies posted show Agmatine could potentially halt fat loss being an antagonist for NDMA receptor and agonist for alpha 2.
    Would be nice to hear your take on this

    here's the studies posted bty ssbackwards and
    Sourdough

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    "Agmatine also binds to α2-adrenergic receptors, and agonists of α2-adrenergic receptors have been known to inhibit opioid withdrawal. The activation of α2-adrenergic receptors by agonists like clonidine inhibits dependence and withdrawal. While agmatine was discovered because of its ability to bind to α2-adrenergic receptors,1 several subsequent functional studies reported that agmatine is not an agonist at this site"

    Agmatine recognizes alpha 2-adrenoceptor binding sites but neither activates nor inhibits alpha 2-adrenoceptors. Naunyn Schmiedebergs Arch Pharmacol. 1995;351:10-16.

    "agmatine, administered intracerebro-ventricular (i.c.v.) or IP, has not been shown to lower arterial pressure,53-55 thus ruling out the possibility of α2-adrenergic receptor activation in this action of agmatine."

    Cardiovascular responses to agmatine, a clonidine-displacing substance, in anesthetized rat. Clin Exp Hypertens. 1995;17:115-128.
    PubMed

    54. Szabo B, Urban R, Limberger N, Starke K. Cardiovascular effects of agmatine, a “clonidine-displacing substance”, in conscious rabbits. Naunyn Schmiedebergs Arch Pharmacol. 1995;351:268-273.
    PubMed DOI: 10.1007/BF00233246


    55. Raasch W, Schafer U, Qadri F, Dominiak P. Agmatine, an endogenous ligand at imidazoline binding sites, does not antagonize the clonidine-mediated blood pressure reaction. Br J Pharmacol. 2002;135:663-672.


    nothing wqas shown in human models in terms of it binding or not i dont believe. thing is i dont know how it recognizs it with out either activating it or not. could be partial antagonist which could cause issues with it halting fat loss, or partiol agonist which may increase fat loss

    Partial meaning it acts like it somewhat therefore essentially blocking the action at the site (so with what i said above it act as oppisite, get it? meaning partial agonist is blocking the site there for overall effects are antagonizing or inhibition of binding.) but i havent seen that in any literature on it.

    this study below (well abstract) is saying it can inhibit NA release (which means agonizes Aplha 2).

    "Agmatine can regulate vascular function by two opposing actions at sympathetic nerve terminals, with different latencies: a transient inhibition of NA release mediated by prejunctional alpha 2-adrenoceptors and a cocaine-sensitive delayed facilitation the mechanism of which is undetermined at present. 8. The results reveal the existence of a novel endogenous amine modulating NA release in the perivascular sympathetic terminals."
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1915776/
    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    Lol...here's a study actually showing its a receptor agonist... Not good ...(except this is in the case of seizures not fat loss)

    Funny thing is it ALSO shows the use of yohimbe to completely negate its effects on the adrenoreceptor as per my suggestion of using alpha y

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21651904

    (1-3):93-9. Epub 2011 Jun 1. Additive anticonvulsant effects of agmatine and lithium chloride on pentylenetetrazole-induced clonic seizure in mice: involvement of ??-adrenoceptor. Bahremand A, Ziai P, Payandemehr B, Rahimian R, Amouzegar A, Khezrian M, Montaser-Kouhsari L, Meibodi MA, Ebrahimi A, Ghasemi A, Ghasemi M, Dehpour AR. Tehran University of Medical Sciences, School of Medicine, Department of Pharmacology, Iran.

    Abstract After 60 years, lithium is still the mainstay in the treatment of mood disorders and widely used in clinic. In addition to its mood stabilizer effects, lithium also shows some anticonvulsant properties. Similar to lithium, agmatine also plays a protective role in the CNS against seizures and has been reported to enhance the effect of different antiepileptic agents. Moreover, both agmatine and lithium have modulatory effects on ?(2)-adrenoceptors. So, we designed this study: 1) to investigate whether agmatine and lithium show an additive effect against clonic seizures induced by pentylenetetrazole; 2) to assess whether this additive effect is mediated through the ?(2)-adrenoceptor or not. In our study, acute administration of a single effective dose of lithium chloride (30 mg/kg, i.p.) increased the seizure threshold. Pre-treatment with low and, per se, non-effective doses of agmatine (1 and 3mg/kg) potentiated a sub-effective dose of lithium (10mg/kg). Interestingly, the anticonvulsant effects of these effective combinations of lithium and agmatine were prevented by pre-treatment with low and non-effective doses of yohimbine [?(2)-adrenoceptor antagonist] (0.1 and 0.5mg/kg). On the other hand, clonidine [?(2)-adrenoceptor agonist] augmented the anticonvulsant effect of a sub-effective combination of lithium (5mg/kg i.p.) and agmatine (1mg/kg) at relatively low doses (0.1 and 0.25mg/kg). In summary, our findings demonstrate that agmatine and lithium chloride exhibit additive anticonvulsant properties which seem to be mediated through ?(2)-adrenoceptor.

    Copyright © 2011. Published by Elsevier B.V.

    PMID: 21651904 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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    Does Augmatine have any cortisol lowering ability ????
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    Today I gave agmatine another shot,
    out of boredoom really, it was arms/abs + full body depletion workout
    long wo with the first part being heavy-ish and the depletion part fast and light
    took a day off from Craze so I took 750mg of Agmatine prewo with 100mg caffeine 30 min
    before the training.

    I can definitely say that Agmatine is NOT for me.
    First it puts me to sleep, second it puts me in a very bad mood,
    it takes my aggression away, it seems to make muscle contraction less intense
    and after the first few sets this last thing was really noticeable.
    Mind/muscle connection is just not there and (something I noticed before but today
    had confirmation) it makes my eyes way too sensitive to light, which makes my head feel
    "heavy"..

    Overall I am pretty sure agmatine is the WORST supplement I've ever taken,
    I genuinely hate what it does to me, awful.. Remaining 40gr of it are heading in the toilet
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    I can related to the "puts me to sleep" part. It makes me drowsy too.

    T-Bone and I were discussing this recently.


    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    Today I gave agmatine another shot,
    out of boredoom really, it was arms/abs + full body depletion workout
    long wo with the first part being heavy-ish and the depletion part fast and light
    took a day off from Craze so I took 750mg of Agmatine prewo with 100mg caffeine 30 min
    before the training.

    I can definitely say that Agmatine is NOT for me.
    First it puts me to sleep, second it puts me in a very bad mood,
    it takes my aggression away, it seems to make muscle contraction less intense
    and after the first few sets this last thing was really noticeable.
    Mind/muscle connection is just not there and (something I noticed before but today
    had confirmation) it makes my eyes way too sensitive to light, which makes my head feel
    "heavy"..

    Overall I am pretty sure agmatine is the WORST supplement I've ever taken,
    I genuinely hate what it does to me, awful.. Remaining 40gr of it are heading in the toilet
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    I can related to the "puts me to sleep" part. It makes me drowsy too.

    T-Bone and I were discussing this recently.
    Yeah dosing it "solo" I could totally spot that effect, def not nice especially prewo
    Are you still running it? Have you noticed any benefit? 'cause aside from some lil more pump
    i didn't really see anything altho' I didn't use it long enough tho' but I'm cutting everything that
    I'm not 100% sure gives me some improvement, I'm done "guessing" what sups do or are suppose to
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    No - I stopped as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RipdnTxs View Post
    Does Augmatine have any cortisol lowering ability ????
    Oh no, the damage of a spelling mistake in the thread title is spreading lol.

    "Agmatine" = correct. "Augmatine" = no.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    No - I stopped as well.
    Ja, not worth it imo

    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Oh no, the damage of a spelling mistake in the thread title is spreading lol.

    "Agmatine" = correct. "Augmatine" = no.
    lol i tried to point out the wrong title before, it bothers me a lot
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    I'm almost done with mine. I'm not throwing it in the toilet though. It is way too expensive and I don't like to waste things no matter what. Mine should be finished up within the next couple days.
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    I'm still taking 1.5 grams a day and love it

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    Quote Originally Posted by StakedCop View Post
    I'm still taking 1.5 grams a day and love it
    Its nice to hear that. I am always looking into new supps for me and adding them to a never ending purchase list. Does this bother your stomach at all in any way. That believe it or not is one of the important things for me. I can deal with feeling sleepy and some other things LOL. Also, how have your results been, ie, pumps, vascualrity, strength etc. And finally, how have your been staked..Sj
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    Personally I have not had any negatives with agmatine.

    First day I did notice a mood change, and I shat a lot, but lately nothing...
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuppJunkie

    Its nice to hear that. I am always looking into new supps for me and adding them to a never ending purchase list. Does this bother your stomach at all in any way. That believe it or not is one of the important things for me. I can deal with feeling sleepy and some other things LOL. Also, how have your results been, ie, pumps, vascualrity, strength etc. And finally, how have your been staked..Sj
    I'm good brother how you been man? This product really helps with pumps. Not just workout pumps but I feel fuller all day. Nothing crazy but it is very noticeable for me. Vascularity is ok I'm bulking still so I'm not all that vascular at the moment. No strength gains for me but strength isn't a huge concern for me as long as in pushing body to its limit.

    Also no stomach issues. That's a huge factor for me too!! I can't stand a product that makes me sleepy or lose focus and
    I can't say I've had any issues with that either. I always gotta be at the ready lol

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    These agmatine concerns are overblown IMO. The lack of conclusive evidence and transient agonism are likely due to agmatine's halflife.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    These agmatine concerns are overblown IMO. The lack of conclusive evidence and transient agonism are likely due to agmatine's halflife.
    How long is the half life for agmatine ???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigugly View Post
    How long is the half life for agmatine ???
    I believe around 10 minutes. However, [some] of its effects are demonstrated to extend beyond that value.

    Despite agmatine’s short (<10 min) plasma half-life (Piletz et al., 2003; Raasch et al., 2002; Roberts et al., 2005), its systemic administration consistently affects a wide variety of CNS-mediated processes (Nguyen et al., 2003).

    Eur J Pharmacol. 2008 June 10; 587(1-3): 135–140.
    Supraspinally-administered agmatine attenuates the development of oral fentanyl self-administration
    Carrie L. Wade,2 Daniel J. Schuster,3 Kristine M. Domingo,3 Kelley F. Kitto,2,3 and Carolyn A. Fairbanks1,2,3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    I believe around 5 minutes. However, [some] of its effects are demonstrated to extend beyond that value.
    Some people are also only using 500mg on work out days only right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Some people are also only using 500mg on work out days only right?
    500mg is sufficient for many, yes. Despite agmatine's halflife, some of its system effects, most notably vasodilation, persist to a significant degree:

    Agmatine: A novel endogenous vasodilator substance

    • Yuqi Gao1,
    • Bulent Gumusel1,
    • Gabor Koves1,
    • Anand Prasad2,
    • Qingzhong Hao1,
    • Albert Hyman1, 3,
    • Howard Lippton


    "The purpose of the study was to investigate the effects of agmatine, an endogenous clonidine-displacing substance (CDS), on systemic hemodynamics in the anesthetized rat. Bolus intravenous (i.v.) injections of agmatine decreased systemic arterial pressure (SAP) and systemic vascular resistance in a dose-dependent manner. The development of acute tachyphylaxis to the systemic vasodepressor response to agmatine did not induce cross-tachyphylaxis to the systemic vasodepressor responses to bradykinin, isoproterenol and nitroglycerin. The present data demonstrate agmatine, as a CDS and agonist for imidazoline (I) receptors, possesses marked systemic vasodilator activity in the rat. The present data suggest that activation of I receptors may represent a novel mechanism of vasodilation in vivo."
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    Thanks mr Cooper! Good info here.
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    Since it takes time for the amount of agmatine to build up in the body, would there be any benefit to do a loading phase when starting agmatine use in order to build up the level of agmatine in the body faster? If so, what sort of dosage could beused in a loading period?
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    I am unsure why all the references to supraspinal and IV admin.

    There is an attenuation of total body agmatine stores as we age (pointed out in an article I did for Joey - then, CEO of MAN back with the launch of Blue Print). It may very well come down to younger individuals not benefiting as much as old. As for pre-workout administration; way back with the original launch for MAN Sports I did back in 2007/2008 and the product Blue Print...I have NEVER suggested this to be the time to dose it. I am uncertain how we have come to this really - possibly a lot of "me too" companies promoting it in this fashion (unsure); just as arginine and any other polyamine has shown - pre-workout is NOT the way to go and I maintain this position, now 5 years later!

    Post-workout, on the other hand in combination with GABA might be exceedingly interesting.


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    Quote Originally Posted by hsk View Post
    Since it takes time for the amount of agmatine to build up in the body, would there be any benefit to do a loading phase when starting agmatine use in order to build up the level of agmatine in the body faster? If so, what sort of dosage could beused in a loading period?
    Outside of sheer pontification; I can say, with confidence, that we simply don't know.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Some people are also only using 500mg on work out days only right?
    Volume of distribution estimates wouldn't support oral dosing this low; we'll chalk that dosing protocol up to a hint of placebo.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    Hey Doc,
    the main concern here were some studies posted show Agmatine could potentially halt fat loss being an antagonist for NDMA receptor and agonist for alpha 2.
    Would be nice to hear your take on this

    here's the studies posted bty ssbackwards and
    Sourdough
    Read last line 1 of paragraph 1 of the first quote ("several subsequent functional studies reported that agmatine is not an agonist at this site")...studies have been mixed in this regard and it is just that we know of about 13 receptors that are affected by agmatine; in order to even claim substantial impact to a significant degree in this respect, you'd probably need to take it by the bucket-full from an ORAL standpoint which lends credence to the study discrepency with IV dosing parameters.

    I think boys will be boys stirring up a bit of controversy on an ingredient (can't say as I have heard that before at all - obviously a hint / or a landslide of sarcasm).


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    Quote Originally Posted by RipdnTxs View Post
    Does Augmatine have any cortisol lowering ability ????
    Just as arginine before it; all polyamines (arginine, citrulline, ornithine, putrescine, spermine, spermidine, et al...) do to some effect. To suggest that means we know what to do with it in this regard, I would be lying to you.


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    Can I suggest a thread title change again?

    I agree with those who have said it before me...the thread title disturbs me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    I am unsure why all the references to supraspinal and IV admin.

    There is an attenuation of total body agmatine stores as we age (pointed out in an article I did for Joey - then, CEO of MAN back with the launch of Blue Print). It may very well come down to younger individuals not benefiting as much as old. As for pre-workout administration; way back with the original launch for MAN Sports I did back in 2007/2008 and the product Blue Print...I have NEVER suggested this to be the time to dose it. I am uncertain how we have come to this really - possibly a lot of "me too" companies promoting it in this fashion (unsure); just as arginine and any other polyamine has shown - pre-workout is NOT the way to go and I maintain this position, now 5 years later!

    Post-workout, on the other hand in combination with GABA might be exceedingly interesting.


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    So when should I be dosing this bottle of agmatine that I just got? First thing in the AM before breakfast?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    So when should I be dosing this bottle of agmatine that I just got? First thing in the AM before breakfast?
    According to Coop yeah , and 45 mins before a meal at the latest...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    According to Coop yeah , and 45 mins before a meal at the latest...
    what about when training fasted in the am? after working out or an hour before? I had been doing 2grams upon wakening and working out an 1hr 20mins later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii
    Can I suggest a thread title change again?

    I agree with those who have said it before me...the thread title disturbs me.

    D_
    Agreed 100%.

    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii

    Volume of distribution estimates wouldn't support oral dosing this low; we'll chalk that dosing protocol up to a hint of placebo.

    D_
    Understood. I hear some people are even using 1.5-2gs of this stuff as well. Is more better?
    Anyone notice any GI issues?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ev52 View Post
    what about when training fasted in the am? after working out or an hour before? I had been doing 2grams upon wakening and working out an 1hr 20mins later.
    I train fasted , since I am LeanGains , and I take it AFTER my workout , like 30-45 mins before my fast break , and I still have the awesome pumps all day and the next too.
    >SNS-Glycophase<
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    Can I suggest a thread title change again?

    I agree with those who have said it before me...the thread title disturbs me.

    D_
    Augmatine brah!
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Augmatine brah!
    Augmatine Pants
    >SNS-Glycophase<
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    Doc, do you know if agmatine used at 2g or higher daily versus the common dosing of 1g daily would yield any additional benefit? If so, what additional benefit(s) can be had at 2g or more daily?

    With regards to the analgesic properties of agmatine, does the relief provided by agmatine cease once supplementation has stopped?
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    I started this sucker and I apologize for the spelling error. It has been corrected for those who are spelling sensitive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I started this sucker and I apologize for the spelling error. It has been corrected for those who are spelling sensitive.
    I still read augmatine
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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